Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Morbi]

Because you used this...

As a basis for why Bowser Jr. should be fundamentally changed in Smash. If a proposition for an alteration that radical is given, I just want to ensure all the facts were straight, is all.


I disagree, honestly. Wii Fit U's version goes deep into the uncanny valley. OG Wii Fit Trainer's lack of pronounced eyes make the fact that she has inhumanly pale skin seem less jarring, but the Wii Fit U's version combines the more inhuman aspects of the original and adds a more human element with actual human like eyes.

Essentially it's like going from a mannequin to one of those really creepy "lifelike" robots.

Oh, one of "those" robots, I am into it.

I think giving villager and Wii fit trainer their updated designs would make them more expressive so that’s a plus imo

I definitely agree with this sentiment, I hate it in games when the models or sound design are just lifeless. Especially in Nintendo games as they usually do better. It is so weird when you run into an expressionless character. That is actually probably my least favorite aspect of Palutena. She was so much better in Kid Icarus, in Smash, she was just basically a statue.

 

[Senselessbreak]

So is anyone able to figure out how long it took Nintendo to take down the ESRB videos? from what I remember they were uploaded during the work week, and they were gone within 48 hours. Sinces its a weekend, I imagine the process is halted.

It appears videos were first uploaded yesterday afternoon, so its almost been 24 hours.

 

[MrReyes96]

Aside from new defaults skins, what other new skins and color palettes do you guys wanna see? Proper shiny Pokémon skins would be great. Also a Morpho Knight inspired palette swap for Meta Knight would be cool.

Every character should get outfits that change their models, even if it’s dlc.
With Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild Nintendo has embraced different outfits and hopefully that translates to smash. Give me actual costume not mii costumes.
As for ones i’d like to see low poly model costumes of the 64 characters would be cool to have.

 

[Morbi]

So is anyone able to figure out how long it took Nintendo to take down the ESRB videos? from what I remember they were uploaded during the work week, and they were gone within 48 hours. Sinces its a weekend, I imagine the process is halted.

It appears videos were first uploaded yesterday afternoon, so its almost been 24 hours.

Are you talking about the mods with Spring Man and Decidueye, or something else?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Aside from new defaults skins, what other new skins and color palettes do you guys wanna see? Proper shiny Pokémon skins would be great. Also a Morpho Knight inspired palette swap for Meta Knight would be cool.

Edit: I almost forgot about Sonic and Lucario and how I hope they get more swaps that aren't just different shades of blue. Smash 4 was a step in the right direction.

I wish they'd let sonic be something other than blue, purple and white, I want Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Amy, Silver, Blaze etc inspired costumes.

Also the mario odyssey wedding costumes, although that probably won't happen cause of mario and bowsers top hats

 

[MrReyes96]

Oh, one of "those" robots, I am into it.


I definitely agree with this sentiment, I hate it in games when the models or sound design are just lifeless. Especially in Nintendo games as they usually do better. It is so weird when you run into an expressionless character. That is actually probably my least favorite aspect of Palutena. She was so much better in Kid Icarus, in Smash, she was just basically a statue.

Especially the Kid Icarus characters got done dirty with the lifeless models... I want them to look like their portraits in the game, Palutena especially and hopefully any other kid Icarus newcomer.

 

[Blargg888]

Welcome, all, to the gr8test page on the thread.

So is anyone able to figure out how long it took Nintendo to take down the ESRB videos? from what I remember they were uploaded during the work week, and they were gone within 48 hours. Sinces its a weekend, I imagine the process is halted.

It appears videos were first uploaded yesterday afternoon, so its almost been 24 hours.

It was pretty quick.

I remember at one point somebody posted the videos onto the boards a few minutes after they were uploaded, and they were gone an hour later, at best.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Sora is arguably bigger than Cloud, just less iconic. The problem, I believe, is that people do not know he is owned by Disney and not Square, that was my problem. I had no idea and therefore I thought he had a decent chance.

Nah, I always knew he was heavily requested. He is one of the top dogs. But again, Disney. All of the other weird choices are up to Nintendo. If Nintendo wants Doom Guy, we get Doom Guy, if Nintendo wants Banjo, we get Banjo, if Nintendo wants Sora... Um, it is up to Disney. In other words, video-game companies are interested because it promotes their characters. Disney is not a video-game company, and they are probably the biggest entity in the world. They could care less and might genuinely demand Mickie Mouse or bust.

The only way I see it happening is if Square Enix pushes for it as well and they both approach Disney together. That is somewhat doubtful, however. Especially when there are plenty of other Enix characters in the sea.

If Sakurai is going to aim for Sora, then it is him or nothing else. I cannot see Sakurai going for an alternate Square option, especially when Sora's degree of popularity likely outnumbers a number of SQ candidates by miles. What third-party choices will be chosen will be heavily based on top 5 ballot rankings IMO.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

It is actually less creepy, you are just used to the other one. Guaranteed.

Nah as already said definitely in uncanny valley territory.
I also have a huge thing against having realistic characters in Smash that don't look like they should be fighting (Ryu at least looks like a fighter) and this pushes Trainer from cartoonish to like actual yoga instructor I could take classes from. Definitively would feel guilty beating her up lol.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So is anyone able to figure out how long it took Nintendo to take down the ESRB videos? from what I remember they were uploaded during the work week, and they were gone within 48 hours. Sinces its a weekend, I imagine the process is halted.

It appears videos were first uploaded yesterday afternoon, so its almost been 24 hours.

They were taken down and re-uploaded several times within like a couple of hours, tops.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Finally caught up, I'm not biting on the leak but I'm not counting it out. Remember when the ESRB leak happened, and people said it was fake since Ness' render lacked the bottom left yellow half stripe, Wario was "missing" a pupil, Shulk was Little Mac, one line on the bottom screen was ever so slightly larger than the other 3, and the footage was obviously a Brawl mod? These inconsistencies may very well be developer goofs.

However, by the off chance that this actually is real, I think the Nintendo ninjas would've done something by now. Yeah, it's the weekend and its only been a day, but this would be major news if true. There are obviously NDAs a plenty. Videos would've been taken by NOA themselves. Heads would've rolled. Something should've happened. The Ninjas are everywhere, especially here. Silent, but deadly. Big brother is watching, and I'm not talking about Mario .

Also, this is just my opinion, but the art style in the leak is kinda bland, very reminiscent of 4. FAR from a deal breaker, but I hope for something a little more inspired.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Wario was "missing" a pupil.

Holy crap, out of all the things said this really threw me back to the ESRB leak days. People actually pointing that out were wild lol.

 

[Polan]

I really want to listen to the main theme of this Smash.

Please be like Brawl's.

There's a bunch of remixes on Youtube based off that choir bit in the trailer. That might not be the theme but hey the remixes are pretty epic.

 

[Wyoming]

Mr. Game & Watch's hand was inside Wario's render!

 

[TumblrFamous]

Oh geez, that takes me back. The Shulk/Little Mac side-by-sides on every page of that leak thread... I still have battle scars from that.

If Sakurai is going to aim for Sora, then it is him or nothing else. I cannot see Sakurai going for an alternate Square option, especially when Sora's degree of popularity likely outnumbers a number of SQ candidates by miles. What third-party choices will be chosen will be heavily based on top 5 ballot rankings IMO.

This is where I'm at right now. If Sakurai wants Sora, he will do Sora. If Disney doesn't budge in cooperating, then Sakurai will probably just drop it.

 

[DraginHikari]

Uh...

Yeah, y'know, maybe we should just stick the WFT we have now.

We could have this one as a palette swap, but I think I could go without this as an alt.

It's not bad, it's just that there's something uncanny about it...

Likely because the original Wii Fit Trainer was still clearly NOT human in appearance enough to not descend as far into the uncanny valley. The Wii U version was given features that made the Trainer looking more human especially in the eyes. But that can sometimes have the effect as coming off unsettling because it makes the inhuman features that much more apparent to the human eye.

The uncanny valley is kind of interesting subject when your looking at human psychology as a whole.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yeah the ESRB Leak was littered with ''What the **** is this **** Sakurai." Which is why people didn't believe it.

 

[Staarih]

I feel like the pale ”mannequin” face kinda adds to WFT’s personality (or lack of it lol?), unique either way haha.

Another topic that came to mind: would Smash benefit from (bi-)weekly/monthly community events like SplatFest and/or Party Crash? I know those are what keep me going back to Splatoon and ARMS at least. Smash 4 had a good start with the Conquests, but I wouldn’t mind taking it a further step with full-fledged online events, pitting certain characters against each other in various modes, or something.

 

[DutchPichu]

Ganondorfs model was from SSE?

 

[Morbi]

Likely because the original Wii Fit Trainer was still clearly NOT human in appearance enough to not descend as far into the uncanny valley. The Wii U version was given features that made the Trainer looking more human especially in the eyes. But that can sometimes have the effect as coming off unsettling because it makes the inhuman features that much more apparent to the human eye.

The uncanny valley is kind of interesting subject when your looking at human psychology as a whole.

Eh, it is honestly no different than most female models in gaming outside of the skin color. I genuinely believe people are overreacting because she used to be mannequin, rather than what is actually present.

I feel like the pale ”mannequin” face kinda adds to WFT’s personality (or lack of it lol?), unique either way haha.

Another topic that came to mind: would Smash benefit from (bi-)weekly/monthly community events like SplatFest and/or Party Crash? I know those are what keep me going back to Splatoon and ARMS at least. Smash 4 had a good start with the Conquests, but I wouldn’t mind taking it a further step with full-fledged online events, pitting certain characters against each other in various modes, or something.

It would keep me playing if the online is utter garbage again. Not even sure if I am going to buy the online feature with Nintendo at the helm, but if they proved it was actually worth it and that they were competent, sure, why not? I would love upgraded Conquest.

 

[kylexv]

Yeah the ESRB Leak was littered with ''What the **** is this **** Sakurai." Which is why people didn't believe it.

I think something similar happened in the Brawl days but with a couple text leaks, which made it even more unbelievable.

 

[Opossum]

Mr. Game & Watch's hand was inside Wario's render!

I still can't look at the Smash 3DS roster screen without seeing the black triangle over Ganondorf.

The leak thread ruined it for me.

 

[Lyndis_]

Likely because the original Wii Fit Trainer was still clearly NOT human in appearance enough to not descend as far into the uncanny valley. The Wii U version was given features that made the Trainer looking more human especially in the eyes. But that can sometimes have the effect as coming off unsettling because it makes the inhuman features that much more apparent to the human eye.

The uncanny valley is kind of interesting subject when your looking at human psychology as a whole.

This is absolutely it. The Wii Fit Trainer is a lot more simple, there isn't much detail on things like the eyes, nose, or lips. They're there, but there's nothing to them except the basic shape, which makes it a lot easier to see them as a cartoon.

The Wii Fit U Trainer on the other hand looks incredibly human outside of the pale skin and lifeless eyes, making it feel incredibly uncomfortable and placing it into the uncanny valley like a lot of those early human robots you see.

Spoiler: Her method of combat

 

[TumblrFamous]

Yeah the ESRB Leak was littered with ''What the **** is this **** Sakurai." Which is why people didn't believe it.

I think the only things that were incredulous at the time were no Ice Climbers (and no Lucas/Wolf to a lesser extent), and the inclusion of Dark Pit. As far as I remember no one was done in by Bowser Jr. or Duck Hunt Dog or Shulk (but that was 4 years ago, feel free to remind me if that wasn't the case). No Ice Climbers and having Dark Pit ultimately made people despise that leak and call it fake.

I feel it's bound to happen again down the line this year.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So the leak is still thriving? I guess it only has today and tomorrow to live right now if those videos don't get deleted when the ninjas go back to work.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Dark Pit I saw coming a mile away and I kept telling people he was coming.

That cliffhanger at the end of Palutena's trailer was pretty much a hammer to the head and I have no idea how some of you didn't realize that was pretty much ''I'm in this game too!"

 

[Morbi]

I think the only things that were incredulous at the time were no Ice Climbers (and no Lucas/Wolf to a lesser extent), and the inclusion of Dark Pit. As far as I remember no one was done in by Bowser Jr. or Duck Hunt Dog or Shulk (but that was 4 years ago, feel free to remind me if that wasn't the case). No Ice Climbers and having Dark Pit ultimately made people despise that leak and call it fake.

I feel it's bound to happen again down the line this year.

Fairly certain Ice Climbers were confirmed to not make an appearance well before any leak.

Dark Pit I saw coming a mile away and I kept telling people he was coming.

That cliffhanger at the end of Palutena's trailer was pretty much a hammer to the head and I have no idea how some of you didn't realize that was pretty much ''I'm in this game too!"

It was so obvious, I remember spamming Sakurai's clone criteria each and every time and people were always like, huh uh huh, he is just going to be a costume. Like talking to brick walls.

 

[Senselessbreak]

I think something similar happened in the Brawl days but with a couple text leaks, which made it even more unbelievable.

Lucario replacing Mewtwo!??! Never going to happen!!

I remember seeing reactions to the Melee leaks back in the day and people doubted that "Roy Koopa" was getting in haha.

 

[Morbi]

Lucario replacing Mewtwo!??! Never going to happen!!

I remember seeing reactions to the Melee leaks back in the day and people doubted that "Roy Koopa" was getting in haha.

To be fair, I would doubt Roy Koopa back in Melee as well. Who did they think Marth was? Or was he not in the leak?

 

[TumblrFamous]

Fairly certain Ice Climbers were confirmed to not make an appearance well before any leak.

It was so obvious, I remember spamming Sakurai's clone criteria each and every time and people were always like, huh uh huh, he is just going to be a costume. Like talking to brick walls.

Were they confirmed to not make an appearance? I don't remember any de-confirmation before the leak (maybe I'm forgetful).

And honestly, I was probably one of those people who just thought he was gonna be a costume/assist. I'm a bit in shock that I actually believed at the time Lucina was the only clone we were getting.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You know, until I found that Mii Fighter interview I thought he only denied Goku twice, but Sakurai also rejected Goku in that interview (and any third-party character that didn't originate from a video game so there is a "Must originate from a video game" rule).

 

[Blargg888]

This is absolutely it. The Wii Fit Trainer is a lot more simple, there isn't much detail on things like the eyes, nose, or lips. They're there, but there's nothing to them except the basic shape, which makes it a lot easier to see them as a cartoon.

The Wii Fit U Trainer on the other hand looks incredibly human outside of the pale skin and lifeless eyes, making it feel incredibly uncomfortable and placing it into the uncanny valley like a lot of those early human robots you see.

Spoiler: Her method of combat

We should have Sakurai for Smash.

"Sakurai directs pain into your face!"

Dark Pit I saw coming a mile away and I kept telling people he was coming.

That cliffhanger at the end of Palutena's trailer was pretty much a hammer to the head and I have no idea how some of you didn't realize that was pretty much ''I'm in this game too!"

For a lot of people, it was the lack of a splash screen. Remember that Lucina eventually got one, despite being a clone, which further drove people away from suspecting Dark Pit.

I think the only things that were incredulous at the time were no Ice Climbers (and no Lucas/Wolf to a lesser extent), and the inclusion of Dark Pit. As far as I remember no one was done in by Bowser Jr. or Duck Hunt Dog or Shulk (but that was 4 years ago, feel free to remind me if that wasn't the case). No Ice Climbers and having Dark Pit ultimately made people despise that leak and call it fake.

I feel it's bound to happen again down the line this year.

There were definitely people angry about DHD and Bowser Jr.

Some people were mad that Bowser Jr. was in the clown car, and some people thought that Duck Hunt didn't deserve to be in Smash.

At that point, most people had already accepted Shulk as a possibility due to his inclusion in the Gematsu leak, which, despite being dis-confirmed with the By Book, Blade, and Crest of Flame trailer, still had some prevalence at the time.

People also thought from the ESRB footage that Shulk might be a Link clone, which made them mad, but it was eventually confirmed that that wasn't the case.

The Shulk and Duck Hunt threads were pretty happy though. Not sure about the Bowser Jr. Thread, since I never actually checked it.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Lucario replacing Mewtwo!??! Never going to happen!!

I remember seeing reactions to the Melee leaks back in the day and people doubted that "Roy Koopa" was getting in haha.

I was just talking about this the other day! My brother and I looked up how to unlock the secret Melee characters right when the game came out, and we obviously didn't recognize Roy, and were like Roy Koopa?!

On a somewhat related note I'm going to get on my small soap box and say to all the people that still want the surprise of unlocking characters on their own to just stop being involved in speculation and such. That was 2001 and I still found a way to spoil the secret characters. I'd much rather them be revealed via awesome trailers than just seeing a list of the characters. There is no way you can be surprised about the roster and remain on these forums.

 

[TumblrFamous]

There were definitely people angry about DHD and Bowser Jr.

Some people were mad that Bowser Jr. was in the clown car, and some people thought that Duck Hunt didn't deserve to be in Smash.

At that point, most people had already accepted Shulk as a possibility due to his inclusion in the Gematsu leak, which, despite being dis-confirmed with the By Book, Blade, and Crest of Flame trailer, still had some prevalence at the time.

People also thought from the ESRB footage that Shulk might be a Link clone, which made them mad, but it was eventually confirmed that that wasn't the case.

The Shulk and Duck Hunt threads were pretty happy though. Not sure about the Bowser Jr. Thread, since I never actually checked it.

Oh I'm sure DHD and Bowser Jr. got their hate. I just don't remember it as being as massive as the hate Dark Pit got. I think a lot of it came from fans feeling Smash was being saturated with KI material (boy they must've had a problem with Fire Emblem after DLC), but that's beside the point.

 

[Morbi]

You know, until I found that Mii Fighter interview I thought he only denied Goku twice, but Sakurai also rejected Goku in that interview (and any third-party character that didn't originate from a video game so there is a "Must originate from a video game" rule).

It sure does sound as though Daddy Sakurai cannot get Goku out of his mind, hmm...

I was just talking about this the other day! My brother and I looked up how to unlock the secret Melee characters right when the game came out, and we obviously didn't recognize Roy, and were like Roy Koopa?!

On a somewhat related note I'm going to get on my small soap box and say to all the people that still want the surprise of unlocking characters on their own to just stop being involved in speculation and such. That was 2001 and I still found a way to spoil the secret characters. I'd much rather them be revealed via awesome trailers than just seeing a list of the characters. There is no way you can be surprised about the roster and remain on these forums.

I honestly just remember those days fondly, there is no way, even if I left the forums, that I would not know who the characters revealed were. In this day and age, news spreads like wildfire. I would have to unsubscribe from quite a few channels (some of which are not even Smash focused and have other content I am interested in) and stop looking up gaming news in general (and during e3, there is no way that I would be able to navigate that minefield safely), which is a habit of mine. It is just an impossibility. The only way it would happen is if Sakurai kept them as closely guarded secrets.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh I'm sure DHD and Bowser Jr. got their hate. I just don't remember it as being as massive as the hate Dark Pit got. I think a lot of it came from fans feeling Smash was being saturated with KI material (boy they must've had a problem with Fire Emblem after DLC), but that's beside the point.

Yeah I remember Dark Pit getting the lion's share of hate too when the leak was first shown off. Duck Hunt may have gotten the most hate had Dark Pit remained an alt though. Much like ROB and Probably Mr.Game & Watch did before it.

 

[Wyoming]

If I had to guess a Smash 4 newcomer being surprisingly cut, I would narrow it down to: Greninja, Bowser Jr., and Mewtwo/Lucas.

Greninja: could suffer similar to Mewtwo and be low priority for a new Pokemon, just about missing out.
Bowser Jr.: low priority again and the alternative costumes take too long for development. Although, I imagine they'd simply cut the Koopalings rather than the whole character. But since he barely made it last time, it could happen again.
Mewtwo/Lucas: they were cut before, after all....I don't wish to have to pay for them again on a side note. Either put them in or they're gone. Hopefully the former.

 

[Blargg888]

Oh I'm sure DHD and Bowser Jr. got their hate. I just don't remember it as being as massive as the hate Dark Pit got. I think a lot of it came from fans feeling Smash was being saturated with KI material (boy they must've had a problem with Fire Emblem after DLC), but that's beside the point.

There's no doubt that people had a problem with Dark Pit, yeah. Same with FE after DLC.

Though the biggest complaints about FE's size didn't really come until after Corrin's reveal. There was some before yeah, but Corrin made it worse.

Honestly, if Lucina hadn't been in the game, people would still complain about FE, but I can guarantee that they would complain a LOT less.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I think something similar happened in the Brawl days but with a couple text leaks, which made it even more unbelievable.

People thought ROB meant ROB 64 from Star Fox, as the actual ROB was obviously deconfirmed as he was a regular enemy in SSE. The ****storm that followed when ROB was shown to be playable from the early copies that was leaking the game was something else, the poor robot instantly became the scapegoat of every fanbase who's character didn't get in.

 

[Morbi]

Yeah I remember Dark Pit getting the lion's share of hate too when the leak was first shown off. Duck Hunt may have gotten the most hate had Dark Pit remained an alt though. Much like ROB and Probably Mr.Game & Watch did before it.

That would be odd. As a R.O.B. and Game and Watch hater, I have literally no reason to hate on an iconic character such as Duck Hunt Dog, especially one that was incorporated so creatively.