Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Dark Pit is considered a veteran on the Smash Bros website since he was in Brawl. Lucina was under the newcomer tag so it wasn't a clone/ costume thing.

Huh I've never noticed that before...that's really weird. And that's because of Pit's darker coloring from Brawl? But wasn't Dark Pit new as of Uprising and thus couldn't be represented in Brawl? Huh.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I’d like to reiterate that we know nothing about this game either way, and therefore cannot make a sound judgement on this. Now, if we get a Smash Direct and Mario is clearly not those shades of Red and Blue, it would call everything into question, without a doubt.

I would also argue that at this point Nintendo taking down videos of it or not could mean anything. They wouldn’t want something real being leaked obviously, but they also don’t want somebody else using their properties to make a fake and get traction through views/etc.

It’s hard to say, because I really know nothing about NDA’s, policies with content from larger companies, or stuff like that. But this could be Nintendo carefully looking at this and biding their time.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I would argue it was the balance board.

Of course, how can I forget the real hero of Wii Fit? It's because of him that people can finally complete their perilous quest to lose that weight they gained after a meal at Burger King the other day. To bad they'll have to endure the treacherous trainer with a penchant for mocking your weight when she's supposed to be your friend.

The balance board is not only the hero we need, but also deserve!

 

[Krysco]

Wasn't able to get to sleep so instead I played the classic 'have your mom guess the character name' game. Figured I'd post the results here:

Spoiler

Mario
Luigi
Princess Bella
Bowser
Dr. Mario
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong (she guessed this one and happened to get it right)
Lynx (genuinely surprised by how close she got)
Princess Plum
Jake
Metal Man
Leech
Arm Cannon
Pistol
Kirby (she usually calls him Kirkby so I'm genuinely surprised she didn't this time)
Meta Knight
Hammer Head
Starfox (she's always made this mistake)
Fighter Penguin
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Meow
Charizard
Chief
Stomper
Billy
Bob
Leozard
Megaman...
Fighter Man
Pikmin
Angel
Wario (she guessed on this one too and got it right)
Pikmin Kids (gave her props for correctly figuring out the Pikmin)
Robot (I gave her props for at least getting the Japanese name right)
Sonic
Princess Twilight
Had her guess Luma's name and she just guessed 'Star'
Yowser
Froggy
Meredith
Twilla
Firesword
Heavenly
Dark Wings
Bishop
Boxer
Olympic
Kid
Duck Hunt
Zoose...
PAC-MAN
Hercules
Leo
Lady Wings
Jules

To give some context, she raised me my entire life and I started gaming around age 4 or 5 and she's currently raising my kid sister plus she had an NES and a Sega Genesis as a kid but outside of exposure from my sister and I, her own limited experience and whatever she happens to see through advertisements and such, she has no experience with video games. I sent her the Sm4sh artwork of each character as they're ordered on Smash wiki, hence the messy ordering. I told her when she got any right but not when she got any wrong and the only hints I gave was telling her that both genders of Robin and all 3 Miis share the same name, without giving away what their names actually were. I also didn't bother showing her Alph or the Koopalings.

She grew up playing a bit of Mario, Sonic and Duck Hunt and I used to love Pokemon and my sister currently does and loves Mario while I love Kirby and Starfox so that's where her correct answers likely came from.

Not a perfect example but seeing as how through catching up, I've seen the 'iconicness' discussion come and go a few times, there's a look at a single outsiders perspective.

 

[Spatman]

the gamecube controller is connected to a gamecube adapter (it's not easy to say dued to low quality of image, but it doesn't seem to have the shape of the official gamecube adapter: a tester who test the game using non official devices?!) but this gamecube adapter what is connected to?! sure it doesn't seem the two usb 3.0 ports at the extern of the dock.
So to the only one usb at inside of dock? but why put Switch and adapter in this strange way, why not showing us the clear connection?
adapters' wire are usually enough long, it's again difficult to say, but I don't believe it's natural to have the adapter in that position and the dock it is connected to in this position.
It seems waaaay more likely to me that there is a Wii U near there and the adapter is connected to it

 

[Superyoshiom]

Second is something I noticed within Sm4sh itself and wanted to see what others thought. If you go to your fighter records in Sm4sh and you go to a record where no character has any data, then the characters are put into a particular order. I'll show the order in a spoiler

Spoiler

Is this not the order the cast was most likely prioritized in? The beginning of the list has 10 of the original 12, namely the original 8 and go figure, one of the 2 missing from the beginning is Puff who we know was low priority in Brawl. After that, it's all vets from Melee and then Brawl. Then it's 1st party newcomers and I believe it's even in the order they were announced and after Shulk it's the third parties with veteran Sonic being the first one. Bit scrambled after that though with the Miis and then oddly Ness and Puff then Falco, Ganon, G&W, Wario, R.O.B., Duck Hunt and Jr. It's scrambled but goes in order of character from 64 then Melee then Brawl then newcomers again and we know Jr almost didn't make it. Then it's the clones who we know were added at the very end and lastly it's the DLC characters in the order they were released

This is a great find, I've been thinking about the priority order for quite a while. There's a lot of interesting stuff here, like how Meta Knight is higher priority than King Dedede, and how Lucario, despite so many people expecting him cut, still had higher priority than every single newcomer.

Then there's the sinful stuff, like how characters like Ness, Ganondorf, and Wario had lower priority than the freaking Miis. Now I'm upset about Ness because of personal bias, but why is an iconic Mario character and the main villain of your second biggest series lower priority than all newcomers? This is most likely the reason Ganon continues to be a clone.

Then of course there's the sheer anger I feel seeing Mewtwo be such low priority in the game, but again, that's all personal bias.

 

[Polan]

Haven't heard a peep from Nintendo on the video I posted. Maybe Nintendo's Youtube guy fell asleep or something.

Which is why if it's real and they're smart they wouldn't take it down. Avoid the Barbra Streisand effect. Especially when 90% of the fandom instantly called it fake to begin with.

I mean if the leak is real, they kinda have to take it down. If they don't, that gives actual leakers an incentive to leak stuff since Nintendo won't do anything about them.

 

[Blargg888]

oh and there is another thing, and it's simply crazy no one noted it until now rotfl: what exactly the gamecube controller is connected to?! surely not the Switch

Some people mentioned that the cord for the Gamecube adapter could be obscured by the Blue Joycon.

Wasn't able to get to sleep so instead I played the classic 'have your mom guess the character name' game. Figured I'd post the results here:

Spoiler

Mario
Luigi
Princess Bella
Bowser
Dr. Mario
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong (she guessed this one and happened to get it right)
Lynx (genuinely surprised by how close she got)
Princess Plum
Jake
Metal Man
Leech
Arm Cannon
Pistol
Kirby (she usually calls him Kirkby so I'm genuinely surprised she didn't this time)
Meta Knight
Hammer Head
Starfox (she's always made this mistake)
Fighter Penguin
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Meow
Charizard
Chief
Stomper
Billy
Bob
Leozard
Megaman...
Fighter Man
Pikmin
Angel
Wario (she guessed on this one too and got it right)
Pikmin Kids (gave her props for correctly figuring out the Pikmin)
Robot (I gave her props for at least getting the Japanese name right)
Sonic
Princess Twilight
Had her guess Luma's name and she just guessed 'Star'
Yowser
Froggy
Meredith
Twilla
Firesword
Heavenly
Dark Wings
Bishop
Boxer
Olympic
Kid
Duck Hunt
Zoose...
PAC-MAN
Hercules
Leo
Lady Wings
Jules

To give some context, she raised me my entire life and I started gaming around age 4 or 5 and she's currently raising my kid sister plus she had an NES and a Sega Genesis as a kid but outside of exposure from my sister and I, her own limited experience and whatever she happens to see through advertisements and such, she has no experience with video games. I sent her the Sm4sh artwork of each character as they're ordered on Smash wiki, hence the messy ordering. I told her when she got any right but not when she got any wrong and the only hints I gave was telling her that both genders of Robin and all 3 Miis share the same name, without giving away what their names actually were. I also didn't bother showing her Alph or the Koopalings.

She grew up playing a bit of Mario, Sonic and Duck Hunt and I used to love Pokemon and my sister currently does and loves Mario while I love Kirby and Starfox so that's where her correct answers likely came from.

Not a perfect example but seeing as how through catching up, I've seen the 'iconicness' discussion come and go a few times, there's a look at a single outsiders perspective.

Megaman is my favorite Fire Emblem protagonist. Right after Meta Knight and Kirby.

 

[Spatman]

Some people mentioned that the cord for the Gamecube adapter could be obscured by the Blue Joycon.

no no, I edited my post, because looking better it's evident the final part of the gamecube cord (the part in silver color)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Haven't heard a peep from Nintendo on the video I posted. Maybe Nintendo's Youtube guy fell asleep or something.

Or it is because the leak is fake. It only took a couple of hours for the Shulk, Ganondorf and Bowser Jr. video to get taken down, re-uploaded and taken down multiple times and that wasn't even a well-known or popular video.

 

[Superyoshiom]

If I had to guess a Smash 4 newcomer being surprisingly cut, I would narrow it down to: Greninja, Bowser Jr., and Mewtwo/Lucas.

Greninja: could suffer similar to Mewtwo and be low priority for a new Pokemon, just about missing out.
Bowser Jr.: low priority again and the alternative costumes take too long for development. Although, I imagine they'd simply cut the Koopalings rather than the whole character. But since he barely made it last time, it could happen again.
Mewtwo/Lucas: they were cut before, after all....I don't wish to have to pay for them again on a side note. Either put them in or they're gone. Hopefully the former.

EXCUSE ME, I'M NOT GOING THROUGH THAT TRAUMA AGAIN

 

[Fenriraga]

Has the "leak" even made any major traction outside of the Smash community yet? I kinda expected the likes of Gamexplain and others to have hopped on this already regardless of if they felt it real or fake.

 

[Superyoshiom]

If they did not learn after three times, I am just not even sure what makes people believe they will finally realize that Mewtwo is one of the most popular characters. If anything, the money they made off of him is a great incentive to keep him out again.

It's honestly infuriating, but I'm pretty sure Sakurai isn't to blame for this. Sakurai's a gamer, just like us, and he knows how popular Mewtwo is in Pokemon. I truly believe it's the Pokemon company, wanting to push whatever's hot and trending, and between that and all the work Sakurai has to put in for newcomers, Mewtwo just becomes low priority, Heck, Jigglypuff has consistently been a low priority character since her first game.

 

[Blargg888]

I accepted Lucas being cut last time, because I suspected it might happen, but I hope it doesn't happen again.

Then of course there's the sheer anger I feel seeing Mewtwo be such low priority in the game, but again, that's all personal bias.

I mean, Mewtwo was post-game DLC, so of course he'd be low priority. He was created after the game's release.

Or it is because the leak is fake. It only took a couple of hours for the Shulk, Ganondorf and Bowser Jr. video to get taken down, re-uploaded and taken down multiple times and that wasn't even a well-known or popular video.

Some people think that Nintendo might be trying to avoid the Streisand Effect, though. It's just something to consider.
I've seen strong evidence in both directions, so it's still very gray for me, personally.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This is a great find, I've been thinking about the priority order for quite a while. There's a lot of interesting stuff here, like how Meta Knight is higher priority than King Dedede, and how Lucario, despite so many people expecting him cut, still had higher priority than every single newcomer.

Then there's the sinful stuff, like how characters like Ness, Ganondorf, and Wario had lower priority than the freaking Miis. Now I'm upset about Ness because of personal bias, but why is an iconic Mario character and the main villain of your second biggest series lower priority than all newcomers? This is most likely the reason Ganon continues to be a clone.

Then of course there's the sheer anger I feel seeing Mewtwo be such low priority in the game, but again, that's all personal bias.

The order is divided between the default characters and unlockable ones. Ness to Dark Pit are all the unlockable characters in the 3DS version.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Odds of Balloon Fighter becoming a newcomer in memory of Satoru Iwata? It's one of the most classic NES games and an incredibly unique idea for a fighter.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

but they also don’t want somebody else using their properties to make a fake and get traction through views/etc.

Not saying it's never ever gonna happen, but Nintendo has never done this with a fake leak prior. Any Smash 4 "leak" (besides the ESRB one that was true) was simply ignored by Nintendo, and if asked about any form of leak they'd just give out the PR "We don't comment on rumors" statement.

It’s hard to say, because I really know nothing about NDA’s, policies with content from larger companies, or stuff like that. But this could be Nintendo carefully looking at this and biding their time.

Gotta agree here. Normally, when NDAs and leaks are both involved, Nintendo takes quick action since a contract is breached and that means someone is in big trouble. Iirc this didn't happen when Roy & Ryu got leaked since they got discovered by hackers/data miners in the game files put in the game by Nintendo themselves, and hence no contract was broken and they technically couldn't do anything but wait it out and officially reveal the characters themselves (Maybe they did take down videos on the basis of regular copyright infringement, but I don't quite remember). In the case this leak is real and no takedowns happen, Nintendo could just roll some heads behind the curtain without any public action as to not raise suspicion among speculators. It would be new for them, but if they wanna keep secrets as tight as possible I can see them doing it this time around. Just gotta wait and see, unfortunately.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It's honestly infuriating, but I'm pretty sure Sakurai isn't to blame for this. Sakurai's a gamer, just like us, and he knows how popular Mewtwo is in Pokemon. I truly believe it's the Pokemon company, wanting to push whatever's hot and trending, and between that and all the work Sakurai has to put in for newcomers, Mewtwo just becomes low priority, Heck, Jigglypuff has consistently been a low priority character since her first game.

There's actually no evidence either way if Jigglypuff was low priority in Smash 4, so you can't say that.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Has the "leak" even made any major traction outside of the Smash community yet? I kinda expected the likes of Gamexplain and others to have hopped on this already regardless of if they felt it real or fake.

Even the most clickbaity Nintendo News websites aren't acknowledging the "leak".

 

[Spatman]

they literally bringed mewtwo to us again just for its immense popularity, how could we think it will be cut again?
it's the damn mewtwo, it's clear it's a solid establishment for the series (it was considered for 64 I remember, it was in melee, and it was cutted only at the end of brawl in order to have time and resources to put Sonic in. And ok, Sonic is a bigger priority than Mewtwo of course, but Sonic is already in, so...)

Don't worry for it, people

Surely Lucas is in a more precarious position, but still not a very low priority character

Odds of Balloon Fighter becoming a newcomer in memory of Satoru Iwata? It's one of the most classic NES games and an incredibly unique idea for a fighter.

it's not so unique as a fighter or at least, I can't see his unicity: he's a character who... flies (?)
I mean, ok, he jumps, he flies, he can flies a little higher, a little higher again and... well, and nothing else.
But literally ALL characters already in smash can jump, do a double jump (or multiple jumps) and then use their upB to go even higher


ooops, I'm sorry, double post!
could some mod merge it? I apologize

 

[PeridotGX]

This is a great find, I've been thinking about the priority order for quite a while. There's a lot of interesting stuff here, like how Meta Knight is higher priority than King Dedede, and how Lucario, despite so many people expecting him cut, still had higher priority than every single newcomer.

Then there's the sinful stuff, like how characters like Ness, Ganondorf, and Wario had lower priority than the freaking Miis. Now I'm upset about Ness because of personal bias, but why is an iconic Mario character and the main villain of your second biggest series lower priority than all newcomers? This is most likely the reason Ganon continues to be a clone.

Then of course there's the sheer anger I feel seeing Mewtwo be such low priority in the game, but again, that's all personal bias.

I don't think that means anything. Look at the 3DS version's intro, it's basically the same. It goes Smash 64, Melee, Brawl, Smash 4, 3rd Parties, 3DS Unlockables, DLC. The only place where this may be slightly important is unlockable order.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Some people think that Nintendo might be trying to avoid the Streisand Effect, though. It's just something to consider.
I've seen strong evidence in both directions, so it's still very gray for me, personally.

I honestly feel that theory is a bigger stretch than Spring Man's ARMS.

 

[Superyoshiom]

There's actually no evidence either way if Jigglypuff was low priority in Smash 4, so you can't say that.

Not Smash 4, I mean Brawl, with her non-present role in SSE. Given that she was one of the last characters shown for Smash 4, it could be argued she was low priority but the evidence is loose there.

 

[Lyndis_]

Either way it doesn't help that this has gotten almost no actual coverage compared to any of the other leaks during the Pre-Smash 3DS era, even tweeting at Nintendo doesn't really guarantee they would see it as much as the giant explosion the ESRB one caused did.

 

[Hinata]

Has the "leak" even made any major traction outside of the Smash community yet? I kinda expected the likes of Gamexplain and others to have hopped on this already regardless of if they felt it real or fake.

I looked it up on YouTube, and there are only a handful of videos talking about it, none of which are from major channels.

 

[Opossum]

Odds of Balloon Fighter becoming a newcomer in memory of Satoru Iwata? It's one of the most classic NES games and an incredibly unique idea for a fighter.

If any character got in in Iwata's memory, it'd be Ossan, not Balloon Fighter.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Not Smash 4, I mean Brawl, with her non-present role in SSE. Given that she was one of the last characters shown for Smash 4, it could be argued she was low priority but the evidence is loose there.

If Jigglypuff was on the brink of being cut for Smash 4, wouldn't Sakurai have stated that like with Bowser Jr.? I mean, he did that in a Brawl interview.

 

[DraginHikari]

Either way it doesn't help that this has gotten almost no actual coverage compared to any of the other leaks during the Pre-Smash 3DS era, even tweeting at Nintendo doesn't really guarantee they would see it as much as the giant explosion the ESRB one caused did.

The ESRB one was a big deal to Nintendo as not only did it reveal things before they had a chance to do so themselves but in order to get the ESRB footage there was a break down in security or failing to properly secure information which was probably a bigger issue in Nintendo's mind then the displaying of the leak information itself.

I don't remember if we ever determined where the ESRB leak footage was obtained or who got their hands on it in the first place. If it was someone at the ESRB themselves, Nintendo, or somewhere in between.

On a personal note, I kind of wonder in hindsight how much I would have been excited when Shulk was revealed if I hadn't known from the ESRB leak frankly lol. Because if I recall correctly most of the community was dismissive of him prior to the ESRB leaks outside of the people who already supported him.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Let's talk about something other than this fake leak. Could Ashley be promoted to playable in this game?

 

[CroonerMike]

Let's talk about something other than this fake leak. Could Ashley be promoted to playable in this game?

No thank you.

 

[Blargg888]

On a personal note, I kind of wonder in hindsight how much I would have been excited when Shulk was revealed if I hadn't known from the ESRB leak frankly lol. Because if I recall correctly most of the community was dismissive of him prior to the ESRB leaks outside of the people who already supported him.

I wonder the same thing about Ryu, Roy, and 8 Player Smash.
Almost nobody expressed excitement to those announcements, because they were datamined before their announcements.

It especially sucks because out of all the character trailers, Roy's is actually my favorite.

Let's talk about something other than this fake leak. Could Ashley be promoted to playable in this game?

Who knows?

We really don't have the information to say in any way what the chances of this are.

 

[Krysco]

After being informed about the whole unlockable characters thing from the orders for each game I showed, the only real conclusions I feel that can be met are late entries being put at the end (G&W and the clones in Melee, Sonic, Wolf, Toon Link and Jigglypuff in Brawl and Bowser Jr, Dr. Mario, Dark Pit and Lucina in Sm4sh) and possibly, maybe that characters that get added late, are likely going to be locked initially. 64, Melee and Sm4sh's listings show that quite well while Brawl throws a monkey wrench into things with Pokemon Trainer being sandwiched between the likes of Falco, Ganondorf and Marth.

This at the very least means that if Smash 5 keeps unlockable characters as a concept, whoever we're shown closer to the release date could likely be locked at first. No guarantee though and we have very little time to wait this time so the roster could very well be finished or nearly finished meaning they could show characters in whatever order they wanted, whether they're locked or not.

I do also still feel that certain clones, namely Dr. Mario are consistently kept as a low priority. He specifically was added late into Melee, missed out on Brawl despite being planned and was originally only planned to be an alt? (someone please correct me on that if I'm wrong. I recall at the very least that Lucina and Dark Pit were planned to be just alts) in Sm4sh. Roy also follows this trend and we have no word for or against the reasons Wolf and Pichu were cut but they weren't original characters either. Falco and Ganondorf have consistently proved otherwise however ever since Brawl seeing as how they both got in over Mewtwo both in Brawl and Sm4sh.

 

[Spazzy_D]

It's funny how none of the "leaks" we've seen so far have included the only actual newcomers we know about.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Let's talk about something other than this fake leak. Could Ashley be promoted to playable in this game?

I think based on her Japanese popularity and the generally good reception of Warioware titles, she definitely has a shot. And whenever this topic comes up, it never hurts to remind people of the stickers she received in the Badge Arcade. Also, she was a Mii costume and an Assist Trophy. I think she's actually on the upper end of likeliness.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Ashley barely does anything in her games, and her microgames are nothing special or interesting for Smash.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Ashley barely does anything in her games, and her microgames are nothing special or interesting for Smash.

The same can be said of ROB, Duck Hunt Dog, Rosalina, Sheik, Zelda, Captain Falcon, and Wii Fit Trainer.
Ashley has a backstory, her character has been fleshed out. We know what kinds of things she is capable of if you just go read a little. Plus she was already shown doing things as an AT. Get that bad argument outta here.

 

[-crump-]

Odds of Balloon Fighter becoming a newcomer in memory of Satoru Iwata? It's one of the most classic NES games and an incredibly unique idea for a fighter.

I genuinely think he’s got a pretty decent chance, but not because of Iwata’s passing.

When you think about it, Balloon Fighter and Excitebiker are the oldest Nintendo characters not in Smash that could be considered “iconic”. They haven’t had new games in ages, but the two games are still both referenced quite a bit. Balloon Fighter even got a stage to itself on Smash 3DS, and Excitebike Arena appeared in MK8. If the “retro rep” trend continues, I think it’ll be one of those two.

Wanting to memorialize Iwata’s legacy might put the thought in Sakurai’s head, but that’s kind of a morbid topic and I’d rather not speculate on a character based on the passing of a man I deeply respect

Takumaru is also a possibility, but I am still doubtful that Sakurai would want to add him considering how unknown he still is.

 

[Hinata]

Ashley barely does anything in her games, and her microgames are nothing special or interesting for Smash.

The Wii Fit Trainer barely does anything interesting in her games, and her poses are nothing special or interesting for Smash.

Duck Hunt Dog barely does anything interesting in his games, and his laughs are nothing special or interesting for Smash.

ROB barely does anything interesting in his games, and his status as a toy is nothing special or interesting for Smash.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I would never have added WFT, Duck Hunt, ROB, or Rosalina. I might not have added Zelda/Sheik or Captain Falcon either.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I genuinely think he’s got a pretty decent chance, but not because of Iwata’s legacy.

When you think about it, Balloon Fighter and Excitebiker are the oldest Nintendo characters not in Smash that could be considered “iconic”. They haven’t had new games in ages, but the two games are still both referenced quite a bit. Balloon Fighter even got a stage to itself on Smash 3DS, and Excitebike Arena appeared in MK8. If the “retro rep” trend continues, I think it’ll be one of those two.

Takumaru is also a possibility, but I am still doubtful that Sakurai would want to add him considering how unknown he still is.

I mean, the Excite franchise got 3 new games on Wii, one actually being Excited Bike: World Rally. That wasn't too long ago, really.

Not to mention Excite 3D being the first 3D Classic on 3DS. It also, like you said, gets referenced a lot (in games such as Mario Kart.) It's really not even a "retro franchise," since it has entries on the SNES, N64, and Wii.