Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Ridel]

Unless the model is based off Spring Man concept art considering the time frame for the games development. Just playing devil's advocate but I also really want this leak to be something.

At this point Spring Man's design has been finalized for over a year to our knowledge at the very least. That is like more then enough time to update the model to match his final appearance; that is if they even starting making him before a finalized design.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I feel that the Smash 4 characters (with the probable exception of Jigglypuff due to how relatively easy she is to include) aren't going to just be straight-up ported to Smash 5 like some people think. BotW Link indicates new model for the characters, and new models means revamped animations.

 

[Logo12]

I feel that the Smash 4 characters (with the probable exception of Jigglypuff due to how relatively easy she is to include) aren't going to just be straight-up ported to Smash 5 like some people think. BotW Link indicates new model for the characters, and new models means revamped animations.

Well that probably is true for some characters, but not everyone got new games (or new games that would provide potential changes to the character), so most of them are probably going to be ported. Maybe with a bit of overall texture/aesthetic change like Brawl->4, but not new models.

 

[Wyoming]

Each game since Brawl has a cut or two we didn't expect either. Be braced, fellas. Someone "obvious" might just miss out for whatever reason.

 

[MysticKnives]

You clearly need to look at Subspace Emissary again, because there's TONS of bias for Kirby in there, if you think adding Dedede and Meta Knight wasn't bias. For example, the only recognizable locations from Nintendo franchises that you visit are Dedede's Castle and the Halberd. Everywhere else is just generic places (Abandoned Zoo might be an exception). Also, Kirby and co. were responsible for a lot of the events in SSE: For example, Dedede apparently distracted Meta Knight unintentionally while the Halberd was being hijacked (offscreen event that's mentioned on the Dojo), Dedede created the timer badges that revived Luigi and Ness (and Kirby accidentally) and saved half of the fighters in Subspace 1, Kirby destroyed the giant gunship with the Dragoon, Meta Knight saved PT and Lucas from Galleom's bomb, etc.

I could go on, but I'd rather not, and I think my point is very clear about the Kirby bias in SSE.

Gotta agree here. Many of the significant moments were as a result of the Kirby characters. Ness and Luigi saving most of the cast with Dedede was a result of Dedede's doing in the first place as well.

The Kirby stuff was very obvious there.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Well that probably is true for some characters, but not everyone got new games (or new games that would provide potential changes to the character), so most of them are probably going to be ported. Maybe with a bit of overall texture/aesthetic change like Brawl->4, but not new models.

I used "new" when I meant to say heavily updated. Specifically like the aesthetic difference between say, Brawl Mario vs Smash 4 Mario.

 

[MrReyes96]

You clearly need to look at Subspace Emissary again, because there's TONS of bias for Kirby in there, if you think adding Dedede and Meta Knight wasn't bias. For example, the only recognizable locations from Nintendo franchises that you visit are Dedede's Castle and the Halberd. Everywhere else is just generic places (Abandoned Zoo might be an exception). Also, Kirby and co. were responsible for a lot of the events in SSE: For example, Dedede apparently distracted Meta Knight unintentionally while the Halberd was being hijacked (offscreen event that's mentioned on the Dojo), Dedede created the timer badges that revived Luigi and Ness (and Kirby accidentally) and saved half of the fighters in Subspace 1, Kirby destroyed the giant gunship with the Dragoon, Meta Knight saved PT and Lucas from Galleom's bomb, etc.

I could go on, but I'd rather not, and I think my point is very clear about the Kirby bias in SSE.

And I’m talking about pre-brawl, obviously yes at brawl he showed Kirby a lot of love and added new characters. My point was that’s not the equivalent for smash 4 because the only real new kid Icarus character added was Palutena. Had he added Palutena AND Viridi in 4 then yes he would’ve been biased.

 

[92MilesPrower]

At the mention of Jigglypuff, her inclusion in Brawl was always a really odd case that stuck out to me that I don't know ever really got explained. She wasn't in SSE, and I doubt Sakurai wouldn't have had any ideas as to where she could fit in (he fit in Ice Climbers by making them appear in only one level other than the final ones, where all they did was climb a mountain alongside Meta Knight). Brawl ended up being delayed with Sonic's inclusion (Sonic even appeared at the very end of SSE), and she along with Toon Link and Wolf are only unlockable after Sonic and every other character. It's possible that the three of them barely made it into Brawl, like Junior in Smash 4, and the delay with Sonic gave Sakurai enough time to include them as well.

 

[Starcutter]

The worst part about subspace imo was that ice climbers didn't go with Meta Knight and Lucario onto the Halberd. They had like, one level other than subspace.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I feel that the Smash 4 characters (with the probable exception of Jigglypuff due to how relatively easy she is to include) aren't going to just be straight-up ported to Smash 5 like some people think. BotW Link indicates new model for the characters, and new models means revamped animations.

I expect Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Fox, Falco, Samus, ZSS and maybe the kirby characters to be updated. Everyone else will likely stay the same just with slightly improved models. I don't see the artstyle changing much.

Each game since Brawl has a cut or two we didn't expect either. Be braced, fellas. Someone "obvious" might just miss out for whatever reason.

But wii u was built from the ground up so it's understandable, Chances are this game started as a port.

 

[MrReyes96]

I expect Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Fox, Falco, Samus, ZSS and maybe the kirby characters to be updated. Everyone else will likely stay the same just with slightly improved models. I don't see the artstyle changing much.


But wii u was built from the ground up so it's understandable, Chances are this game started as a port.

Villager will probably get their taller new leaf proportions as well. And Wii fit trainer might use her Wii Fit U design.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Villager will probably get their taller new leaf proportions as well. And Wii fit trainer might use her Wii Fit U design.

New leaf was probably a little too late to affect the moveset but if they wanted to use the New Leaf villager design they probably already would've. I forgot about WFT tbh.

 

[92MilesPrower]

I'd be surprised if Mario doesn't get a few changes based on Odyssey. Plus, I've been waiting since Brawl for Toad in Peach's neutral special to be replaced with Toadsworth. And since Mike West has "figured out" how to voice Fox again in Zero, hopefully he'll get revoiced.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I'd be surprised if Mario doesn't get a few changes based on Odyssey. Plus, I've been waiting since Brawl for Toad in Peach's neutral special to be replaced with Toadsworth. And since Mike West has "figured out" how to voice Fox again in Zero, hopefully he'll get revoiced.

I'm expecting mario to get like one move, maybe they'll replace his side special or up special or something. Also if Fox doesn't get revoiced I'm actually gonna fight lmao

Sidenote, If wolf gets in which I'm assuming he will I'm hyped as hell for british wolf in smash

 

[Pacack]

So, I was having some conversations with some friends who aren't super into Smash speculation like I am, and I noticed something really interesting come up when I asked them who they'd want to see.

Consistently, Sora from Kingdom Hearts came up. Like, more than any other character by far.

Here, we have a tendency to dismiss Sora due to his rights being owned by Disney and not Square Enix, but I'm beginning to think we've seriously underestimated how heavily requested a character he is. He's one of the few characters I can think of that would create a level of hype that rivals Cloud's reveal.

I've been trying to find any evidence I can of Disney and Nintendo working together, and there are examples, though sparce ones. Nintendo published Disney Art Academy for the 3DS, a game which is filled to the brim with Disney IPs.

Less recently, Nintendo created several products featuring Disney characters (most notably Mickey Mouse) in the 1960s and 1970s including three Game and Watch games, several playing card decks, board games, and alarm clocks.

Disney-centered games have also consistently appeared on Nintendo platforms, including games from Disney Interactive Studios and the Disney Infinity series. If you want to branch out, Disney also regularly licenses its characters to other companies to have them develop games, including Square Enix and Capcom.

With this much being said, it wouldn't surprise me terribly to see Nintendo approach Disney, whether through Square Enix's contacts or on their own. Disney and Nintendo have had a good working relationship for some time now, and Sora's demand (potentially from the ballot) could easily be what makes Nintendo take the plunge to negotiate with them. Heck, I could even reasonably see Kingdom Hearts Mickey, Donald, and Goofy appear as part of Sora's final smash or in trophies if including Disney's mascot is part of the agreement.

 

[GatGoat]

Bowser Jr. isn't Koopa Kid. Koopa Kid only appeared in mid-2000s Mario Party games.

if you knew what i meant why get into semantics

 

[92MilesPrower]

So, I was having some conversations with some friends who aren't super into Smash speculation like I am, and I noticed something really interesting come up when I asked them who they'd want to see.

Consistently, Sora from Kingdom Hearts came up. Like, more than any other character by far.

Here, we have a tendency to dismiss Sora due to his rights being owned by Disney and not Square Enix, but I'm beginning to think we've seriously underestimated how heavily requested a character he is. He's one of the few characters I can think of that would create a level of hype that rivals Cloud's reveal.

I've been trying to find any evidence I can of Disney and Nintendo working together, and there are examples, though sparce ones. Nintendo published Disney Art Academy for the 3DS, a game which is filled to the brim with Disney IPs.

Less recently, Nintendo created several products featuring Disney characters (most notably Mickey Mouse) in the 1960s and 1970s including three Game and Watch games, several playing card decks, board games, and alarm clocks.

Disney-centered games have also consistently appeared on Nintendo platforms, including games from Disney Interactive Studios and the Disney Infinity series. If you want to branch out, Disney also regularly licenses its characters to other companies to have them develop games, including Square Enix and Capcom.

With this much being said, it wouldn't surprise me terribly to see Nintendo approach Disney, whether through Square Enix's contacts or on their own. Disney and Nintendo have had a good working relationship for some time now, and Sora's demand (potentially from the ballot) could easily be what makes Nintendo take the plunge to negotiate with them. Heck, I could even reasonably see Kingdom Hearts Mickey, Donald, and Goofy appear as part of Sora's final smash or in trophies if including Disney's mascot is part of the agreement.

If anything, outright references to Disney would probably be avoided, and they probably can too since KH has plenty of original stuff that can be used without really putting Mickey and co. in the game. Sora can use his Final Form for his Final Smash, and we could have Riku as an Assist Trophy.

 

[Morbi]

So, I was having some conversations with some friends who aren't super into Smash speculation like I am, and I noticed something really interesting come up when I asked them who they'd want to see.

Consistently, Sora from Kingdom Hearts came up. Like, more than any other character by far.

Here, we have a tendency to dismiss Sora due to his rights being owned by Disney and not Square Enix, but I'm beginning to think we've seriously underestimated how heavily requested a character he is. He's one of the few characters I can think of that would create a level of hype that rivals Cloud's reveal.

I've been trying to find any evidence I can of Disney and Nintendo working together, and there are examples, though sparce ones. Nintendo published Disney Art Academy for the 3DS, a game which is filled to the brim with Disney IPs.

Less recently, Nintendo created several products featuring Disney characters (most notably Mickey Mouse) in the 1960s and 1970s including three Game and Watch games, several playing card decks, board games, and alarm clocks.

Disney-centered games have also consistently appeared on Nintendo platforms, including games from Disney Interactive Studios and the Disney Infinity series. If you want to branch out, Disney also regularly licenses its characters to other companies to have them develop games, including Square Enix and Capcom.

With this much being said, it wouldn't surprise me terribly to see Nintendo approach Disney, whether through Square Enix's contacts or on their own. Disney and Nintendo have had a good working relationship for some time now, and Sora's demand (potentially from the ballot) could easily be what makes Nintendo take the plunge to negotiate with them. Heck, I could even reasonably see Kingdom Hearts Mickey, Donald, and Goofy appear as part of Sora's final smash or in trophies if including Disney's mascot is part of the agreement.

Sora is arguably bigger than Cloud, just less iconic. The problem, I believe, is that people do not know he is owned by Disney and not Square, that was my problem. I had no idea and therefore I thought he had a decent chance.

Nah, I always knew he was heavily requested. He is one of the top dogs. But again, Disney. All of the other weird choices are up to Nintendo. If Nintendo wants Doom Guy, we get Doom Guy, if Nintendo wants Banjo, we get Banjo, if Nintendo wants Sora... Um, it is up to Disney. In other words, video-game companies are interested because it promotes their characters. Disney is not a video-game company, and they are probably the biggest entity in the world. They could care less and might genuinely demand Mickie Mouse or bust.

The only way I see it happening is if Square Enix pushes for it as well and they both approach Disney together. That is somewhat doubtful, however. Especially when there are plenty of other Enix characters in the sea.

 

[Chiroz]

@Krysco those lists are just order in which they are unlocked.

Starters go first, then unlocks go 1 by 1 in the order they are regularly obtained.

I imagine that's done for specific CSS and Result Screen data showing where it would be easier to have the chars in an order that doesn't require the game to recheck which chars you have unlocked on every single character and only needs to do it on every unlockeable.

Like imagine if you wanted to show chars 1-30 but 10-20 are unlockables. In order to show every char from 10-30 you would have to check which chars the player has unlocked and create a "correct" order, reordering chars depending on which ones are unlocked and which ones are not. If 20-30 were unlockeable instead of 10-20 the job would be much easier, as the only possible reorders are 20-30.

 

[MrReyes96]

New leaf was probably a little too late to affect the moveset but if they wanted to use the New Leaf villager design they probably already would've. I forgot about WFT tbh.

Well no they started planning the game before new leaf, the design for villager is based on city folk. And since they keep using the newer proportions like in Mario kart 8 and pocket camp I think it’s likely they will update it in smash too.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Well no they started planning the game before new leaf, the design for villager is based on city folk. And since they keep using the newer proportions like in Mario kart 8 and pocket camp I think it’s likely they will update it in smash too.

They started planning before new leaf but new leaf still came out before smash was announced if they wanted to update the design they could've. They might but I'm not so sure.

Also wasn't new leaf announced and shown way back in 2011? I'm sure they could've used that design if they wanted to

 

[BluePikmin11]

So, I was having some conversations with some friends who aren't super into Smash speculation like I am, and I noticed something really interesting come up when I asked them who they'd want to see.

Consistently, Sora from Kingdom Hearts came up. Like, more than any other character by far.

Here, we have a tendency to dismiss Sora due to his rights being owned by Disney and not Square Enix, but I'm beginning to think we've seriously underestimated how heavily requested a character he is. He's one of the few characters I can think of that would create a level of hype that rivals Cloud's reveal.

I've been trying to find any evidence I can of Disney and Nintendo working together, and there are examples, though sparce ones. Nintendo published Disney Art Academy for the 3DS, a game which is filled to the brim with Disney IPs.

Less recently, Nintendo created several products featuring Disney characters (most notably Mickey Mouse) in the 1960s and 1970s including three Game and Watch games, several playing card decks, board games, and alarm clocks.

Disney-centered games have also consistently appeared on Nintendo platforms, including games from Disney Interactive Studios and the Disney Infinity series. If you want to branch out, Disney also regularly licenses its characters to other companies to have them develop games, including Square Enix and Capcom.

With this much being said, it wouldn't surprise me terribly to see Nintendo approach Disney, whether through Square Enix's contacts or on their own. Disney and Nintendo have had a good working relationship for some time now, and Sora's demand (potentially from the ballot) could easily be what makes Nintendo take the plunge to negotiate with them. Heck, I could even reasonably see Kingdom Hearts Mickey, Donald, and Goofy appear as part of Sora's final smash or in trophies if including Disney's mascot is part of the agreement.

Boy, I have an analysis ready for RTC and for you to read soon once he is nominated in the top of the list. It will be more than just those things you mentioned that is in Sora's favor.

 

[Chandeelure]

I really want to listen to the main theme of this Smash.

Please be like Brawl's.

 

[Morbi]

They started planning before new leaf but new leaf still came out before smash was announced if they wanted to update the design they could've. They might but I'm not so sure.

Also wasn't new leaf announced and shown way back in 2011? I'm sure they could've used that design if they wanted to

To be honest, they probably purposely went with the older design solely to update it in Smash Switch, they would have been aware that the console existed back then in the same way that we have confirmation that Nintendo has already started work on another console.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Well no they started planning the game before new leaf, the design for villager is based on city folk. And since they keep using the newer proportions like in Mario kart 8 and pocket camp I think it’s likely they will update it in smash too.

Seeing as there was plenty of New Leaf content in Smash 4, though, (Tortimer Island, plenty of music and trophies from NL, Isabelle AT) Sakurai probably decided on the pre New Leaf design for Smash 4 since the Villager was those proportions for 3 games already, and it would be awkward to see the slightly older appearing Villager from NL with the smaller proportions, or vice versa, and just decided to use the smaller proportions.

 

[Blargg888]

I really want to listen to the main theme of this Smash.

Please be like Brawl's.

The little bit of the theme that we heard in the trailer kinda reminds me of a Save Point-esque remix of the main theme, kinda like Brawl had.

Not that that really means anything, but still, I felt like it was worth noting.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

To be honest, they probably purposely went with the older design solely to update it in Smash Switch, they would have been aware that the console existed back then in the same way that we have confirmation that Nintendo has already started work on another console.

But this game was in the planning stages literally the same year the wii u came out, I doubt they did it for that reason

 

[MrReyes96]

Seeing as there was plenty of New Leaf content in Smash 4, though, (Tortimer Island, plenty of music and trophies from NL, Isabelle AT) Sakurai probably decided on the pre New Leaf design for Smash 4 since the Villager was those proportions for 3 games already, and it would be awkward to see the slightly older appearing Villager from NL with the smaller proportions, or vice versa, and just decided to use the smaller proportions.

Well all of that is easier to use implement than a new character model.
But villager’s design is literally on the cover of city folk, if I had to guess they’ll use his design from mario kart 8, or just use the same design with new proportions and maybe new moves.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Tbh I hate the boy villager from new leaf, I hope they don't use it it looks ugly. The girl is cute tho.

 

[Morbi]

But this game was in the planning stages literally the same year the wii u came out, I doubt they did it for that reason

That would imply that his design was decided upon at that very moment, which I highly doubt. But perhaps.

 

[MrReyes96]

These are the likely ones they’d use.
Or like I said just the design from smash 4 in new leaf proportions. Isabelle could use the smaller villager proportions if she’s in the game.

I like the boy’s design especially his shirt. (He could use different pants tho)

 

[TumblrFamous]

So, I was having some conversations with some friends who aren't super into Smash speculation like I am, and I noticed something really interesting come up when I asked them who they'd want to see.

Consistently, Sora from Kingdom Hearts came up. Like, more than any other character by far.

Here, we have a tendency to dismiss Sora due to his rights being owned by Disney and not Square Enix, but I'm beginning to think we've seriously underestimated how heavily requested a character he is. He's one of the few characters I can think of that would create a level of hype that rivals Cloud's reveal.

I've been trying to find any evidence I can of Disney and Nintendo working together, and there are examples, though sparce ones. Nintendo published Disney Art Academy for the 3DS, a game which is filled to the brim with Disney IPs.

Less recently, Nintendo created several products featuring Disney characters (most notably Mickey Mouse) in the 1960s and 1970s including three Game and Watch games, several playing card decks, board games, and alarm clocks.

Disney-centered games have also consistently appeared on Nintendo platforms, including games from Disney Interactive Studios and the Disney Infinity series. If you want to branch out, Disney also regularly licenses its characters to other companies to have them develop games, including Square Enix and Capcom.

With this much being said, it wouldn't surprise me terribly to see Nintendo approach Disney, whether through Square Enix's contacts or on their own. Disney and Nintendo have had a good working relationship for some time now, and Sora's demand (potentially from the ballot) could easily be what makes Nintendo take the plunge to negotiate with them. Heck, I could even reasonably see Kingdom Hearts Mickey, Donald, and Goofy appear as part of Sora's final smash or in trophies if including Disney's mascot is part of the agreement.

Boy oh boy would I love to see Sora. I think he's honestly the only one that I could see rival Cloud's reveal as well. I still really don't see it likely (I'm still banking on Sora only being in if we get a Switch KH3), but seeing the character I grew up with, the character and game that got me into video games, in my favorite fighting game? A dream come true tbh.

Let's hope.

 

[Curious Villager]

Tbh I hate the boy villager from new leaf, I hope they don't use it it looks ugly. The girl is cute tho.

I would probably hope they don't make the New Leaf promotional Boy design the default at least. I do like the New Leaf female Villager design though, which is probably my most favourite one yet of the Villager design's.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Villager will probably get their taller new leaf proportions as well. And Wii fit trainer might use her Wii Fit U design.

TIL Wii Fit Trainer had a different, creepier design in Wii Fit U.

Maybe she'll have eyes this time?

 

[Morbi]

TIL Wii Fit Trainer had a different, creepier design in Wii Fit U.

Maybe she'll have eyes this time?

It is actually less creepy, you are just used to the other one. Guaranteed.

 

[Blargg888]

TIL Wii Fit Trainer had a different, creepier design in Wii Fit U.

Maybe she'll have eyes this time?

Uh...

Yeah, y'know, maybe we should just stick the WFT we have now.

We could have this one as a palette swap, but I think I could go without this as an alt.

It's not bad, it's just that there's something uncanny about it...

 

[MrReyes96]

I think giving villager and Wii fit trainer their updated designs would make them more expressive so that’s a plus imo

 

[92MilesPrower]

Aside from new defaults skins, what other new skins and color palettes do you guys wanna see? Proper shiny Pokémon skins would be great. Also a Morpho Knight inspired palette swap for Meta Knight would be cool.

Edit: I almost forgot about Sonic and Lucario and how I hope they get more swaps that aren't just different shades of blue. Smash 4 was a step in the right direction.

 

[Opossum]

if you knew what i meant why get into semantics

Because you used this...

k

koopa kid is my favorite nintendo bad guy , what they did to him just seemed corny as hell imo

As a basis for why Bowser Jr. should be fundamentally changed in Smash. If a proposition for an alteration that radical is given, I just want to ensure all the facts were straight, is all.

It is actually less creepy, you are just used to the other one. Guaranteed.

I disagree, honestly. Wii Fit U's version goes deep into the uncanny valley. OG Wii Fit Trainer's lack of pronounced eyes make the fact that she has inhumanly pale skin seem less jarring, but the Wii Fit U's version combines the more inhuman aspects of the original and adds a more human element with actual human like eyes.

Essentially it's like going from a mannequin to one of those really creepy "lifelike" robots.

 

[Blargg888]

I think giving Villager and Wii Fit Trainer their updated designs would make them more expressive so that’s a plus IMO

Would you say it's a...

?

It is actually less creepy, you are just used to the other one. Guaranteed.

No, I disagree.

WFT always looked natural to me. I own the original Wii Fit, and she never came off as uncanny or weird in that game. In this picture, when I look at it, it's not that the design is bad, but I get a weird gut feeling when I see it.