Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[True Blue Warrior]

Of all the things to argue about, why Spring Man's jump height?

He ain't an air fighter though

 

[Diddy Kong]

There's been a leak yet again? Okay, on with it I wanna see the blasphemy!

I also think the ARMS Fighter, whoever it's gonna be, should be a heavy weight character with quite some ending lag on the long reach attacks.

 

[Boo Jr.]

Have anyone noticed that the release date on amazon is 31 december?

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07BZV8R5R/ref=s9u_simh_gw_i1?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07BZV8R5R&pd_rd_r=ad04d4e9-40a0-11e8-a558-7b590a9b8a81&pd_rd_w=WKVCH&pd_rd_wg=razw6&pf_rd_m=A11IL2PNWYJU7H&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=59MJQM09XVQQD5D1A9KR&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=65dab04e-e167-43b2-8a87-d61d89060235&pf_rd_i=desktop

I kinda hoped for a september/october release... =/

 

[HyruleHero]

I thought the jump was the most convincing part, animating the rotation after a back air would have been painful to do. and people saying spring girl is the one good at jumping maybe she's a costume and much like wiifit trainer you can choose between the male and female model, its meant to represent the franchise not an individual character.

 

[_Sheik]

Have anyone noticed that the release date on amazon is 31 december?

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B0...e-e167-43b2-8a87-d61d89060235&pf_rd_i=desktop
https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B0...e-e167-43b2-8a87-d61d89060235&pf_rd_i=desktop
I kinda hoped for a september/october release... =/

It's only a placeholder date, don't worry.

 

[Staarih]

Have anyone noticed that the release date on amazon is 31 december?

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B0...e-e167-43b2-8a87-d61d89060235&pf_rd_i=desktop
https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B0...e-e167-43b2-8a87-d61d89060235&pf_rd_i=desktop
I kinda hoped for a september/october release... =/

Probably just a placeholder date, the game comes out in 2018 so the last day of the year is, like, the last day it could come out before we know any better.

And regarding the leak, as the tweet earlier said, it does seem a bit strange how we have a shaky video... but then also crisp, direct feed pictures. I dunno, makes me feel it’s just a mod.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The one thing I'll say about the leak is that Decidueye's idle pose isn't very Smash-like, usually a character's idle pose does a very good job at showing off the character's features, and for some characters that means standing at an angle. Obviously this is Decidueye's idle pose in both Pokémon and Pokkén, but I still fully expect that if he's in Decidueye will be standing at an angle like Mega Man/Greninja/Bowser Jr, the idle pose in the video does a very poor job of showing off the character and its personality.

Of course this isn't strong evidence that the video is fake or anything, but it was the first thing that caught my eye, so I just thought I'd mention it. Even if it turns out to be true I'd still use it as criticism.

 

[fogbadge]

oh great leaks thats all we need

i wish nintendo would put us out of our misery already

 

[Danpal65]

Of all the things to argue about, why Spring Man's jump height?

Beats arguing about whether the character should jump or not

 

[Diddy Kong]

I predict either a Holiday release for Smash Switch, or a delay to 2019. I think the 2018 release date was just a bold statement like 'It's definitely coming and we're working hard on it so be hyped'.

 

[cipher35]

Part of me thinks this leak is real, but I'm more on the "it's fake" side. Probably because of the lack of controller input footage and Spring Man's choppy animations. I'd like to be proven wrong however.

 

[Danpal65]

I predict either a Holiday release for Smash Switch, or a delay to 2019. I think the 2018 release date was just a bold statement like 'It's definitely coming and we're working hard on it so be hyped'.

I'm in the camp of being totally insane and saying that we'll get a September / early October release to line up with the online service. If not, I reckon the online service will be delayed to line up with the games release.

 

[Radical Bones]

Looks fake to me, Ice Climbers keeping their Brawl model, the way Cappy is presented, the good old camera filming the TV.
Be honest, none of you believe it but just want to talk about a leak.

To be fair, my job has me often capturing footage from a screen to create tutorials, and it can be a real pain in the butt.

If the person filming wanted to quickly capture some footage, this is the best way to do it. Setting up the software, downloading the file then deleting the file on a work computer would be pretty difficult.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I predict either a Holiday release for Smash Switch, or a delay to 2019. I think the 2018 release date was just a bold statement like 'It's definitely coming and we're working hard on it so be hyped'.

After the storm of delays that was in the Wii U's lifespan, Nintendo has been sticking to their dates. Xenoblade 2, Mario Odyssey, Arms, Splatoon. All coming out when they were supposed to (at least when they were announced to us to be released). I can't see them delaying what would be 2018's biggest Switch game into 2019. It goes against what they've been doing so far in the Switch's lifespan.

 

[DutchPichu]

The good side of games nowadays is that there can be a like 2 month update / DLC which adds stages, characters etc. The developers certainly aren't done with Smash after its initial release. I believe after Smash 4, DLC is a shoe-in for Smash 5. And I am thinking about saying that they will make more DLC characters and stages this time around, since the Switch is more successful than the Wii U and is at the beginning on his lifespan so they can keep Smash fresher along the Switch's full lifecycle.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I just remembered, wasn't here something Animal Crossing related supposed to go down this weekend?

Was it just some thing for the mobile game?

 

[DutchPichu]

Isabelle for Smash 5! :-D

No, I thought there was going to be a kind of "Fortune Cookie" update for the mobile app...

However, I am one of the few that think Isabelle is an 80% guarantee for Smash 5 I think?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Here's the worst thing about when the hype dies down around a leak.

The thread is now dead, because we are at this awkward period where everything is just

"Now what."

We need Nintendo to surprise us Monday by saying ''Join us tomorrow/Wednesday for a special Smash Bros presentation hosted by series director Masahiro Sakurai."

 

[Staarih]

I just remembered, wasn't here something Animal Crossing related supposed to go down this weekend?

Was it just some thing for the mobile game?

I reckon it was for nothing game related (Pocket Camp has nothing at least), I don’t think Nintendo tends to announce things during the weekend anyway. I assume this time of year is known for cherry blossom (festivals) so could be just a shout-out for something generic like that.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

The thread is now dead, because we are at this awkward period where everything is just

"Now what.

Very true unfortunately. I hope we get more info on Smash this month or next month.

 

[Krysco]

Lol, my shift last night was so lax that I was able to catch all the way up to page 831. Got a few things to reply to:

First is this potential trend that I notice about cut discussion. It's only a potential trend since I honestly don't pay enough attention to see if people who bring up one point I'm about to mention, also bring up the other but I at least notice that both are brought up a lot. Those points being that I often see 'Character X won't be cut because they have a unique moveset' usually mixed in with whatever they represent and how much they're loved and yada yada and then I also see 'Character Y won't be cut because they're an easy to add clone that takes almost no time at all'. There's hardly any middle ground between those 2 points. The whole deal with clones is that they aren't unique, they borrow animations, frame data, stats and whatever else from another character. If they weren't a clone, they'd fall under 'unique character'. Cuts happen and it's largely due to time constraints. There's eventually a deadline and if things don't go as planned then odds are, someone or something has to be missed out on to get as much into the game as they can. This is why clones are often cut and considered low priority. Say Rex is gonna be in the game and they run into issues getting something about him to work as they want it to, and they fall behind. They're more likely to push back development on a character like Lucina or Dr. Mario to finish the new, unique character on time since they may just need that extra little bit of time. Deadline's can't always be moved.

That's not to say clones are always lowest priority as Brawl proved by bringing back the likes of Falco and Ganondorf and adding the likes of Wolf and Toon Link but not bringing back Mewtwo. Clones being cut first isn't exactly a rule but it is a noteworthy trend.

Second is something I noticed within Sm4sh itself and wanted to see what others thought. If you go to your fighter records in Sm4sh and you go to a record where no character has any data, then the characters are put into a particular order. I'll show the order in a spoiler

Spoiler

Is this not the order the cast was most likely prioritized in? The beginning of the list has 10 of the original 12, namely the original 8 and go figure, one of the 2 missing from the beginning is Puff who we know was low priority in Brawl. After that, it's all vets from Melee and then Brawl. Then it's 1st party newcomers and I believe it's even in the order they were announced and after Shulk it's the third parties with veteran Sonic being the first one. Bit scrambled after that though with the Miis and then oddly Ness and Puff then Falco, Ganon, G&W, Wario, R.O.B., Duck Hunt and Jr. It's scrambled but goes in order of character from 64 then Melee then Brawl then newcomers again and we know Jr almost didn't make it. Then it's the clones who we know were added at the very end and lastly it's the DLC characters in the order they were released in.

Side note to all of this: this is why coin battles are great. They aren't actually fun to play in but because I never do them, I get access to this.

Thirdly, around the area where I'm currently catching up, there was a mention of whether Puff is still a semi clone of Kirby or not. Puff still shares the same jab (Kirby's jab 1 and 2 are basically the same but of course he has a rapid jab finisher while Puff doesn't), ftilt, utilt, dtilt, grab, dash grab, pivot grab, bthrow, pummel, fsmash, dair, ledge attack, trip attack, get up attack, shield, rolls, spot dodge, battering item jab and fsmash (but not ftilt and dash attack), hammer swinging (item), gun firing, certain item tosses (it's hard to tell with some of them), walk (all speeds), multiple jumps, dizzyness (different expressions though and Puff of course has the whole flying to the moon after a shield break), sleeping and if you wanna get technical then dsmash (they both spin before kicking to both sides at the same time but Puff spins while charging while Kirby spins after the charge, if any). I honestly put more effort looking into this than I needed to but I'd say Puff is at least as much of a semi clone of Kirby as Lucas is of Ness, possibly even more since the pink marshmallows share more attack animations than the PK Kids do.

Lastly, why exactly do people look at Villager's up special and then immediately conclude that because of that one move that Balloon Fighter has no chance of getting in? In that case, what is Charizard doing in Smash? We already have a character well known for breathing fire with Bowser. Or why do we have Lucario when Mewtwo was already doing the whole 'charging a projectile that produces a hitbox with their hands' thing. Or Pit when we already had a character with a bladed weapon, a shield and a bow and arrow. Or Ike when Marth already had a sword focused moveset with a chargeable but not storable neutral special and a counter. Nevermind all of the clones we've gotten. If Balloon Fighter got in, there should be absolutely no problem with him and Villager sharing a single move together or possibly even more. It's not like a character can't be a clone of another character from a different franchise

TL;DR first is just the constant seeing of 'character X won't be cut because they're unique and character Y won't be cut because they're an easy to make clone' when there's very little room between those 2 observations. Plus a reminder that clones are often cut first, specifically because they're easy to make and therefore saved for the end. Second is just the possible priority list of characters in Sm4sh. Third is Puff is indeed a semi clone of Kirby still and fourth is Balloon Fighter can be in even if Villager keeps the same up special.

Maybe I'll actually get replies this time

Edit: fixed a contradiction in my first point.

 

[Wyoming]

Here's the worst thing about when the hype dies down around a leak.

The thread is now dead, because we are at this awkward period where everything is just

"Now what."

We need Nintendo to surprise us Monday by saying ''Join us tomorrow/Wednesday for a special Smash Bros presentation hosted by series director Masahiro Sakurai."

I have off Wednesday so....yes.

 

[NintenZ]

So when will we get a new reveal?

 

[Pokechu]

this is offtopic but since the thread's kind of slowed down about the leak I'll just throw it in, but am I the only one who misses Squirtle and Ivysaur? They're the main reason why I hope this leak is fake, I'd rather have them bring back those two unique veterans than add an entirely new Pokemon. Ivysaur is our only quadruped fighter (unless im being dumb lol) and I found him really cool to play as.

 

[Deleted member]

Multiple people say the Ice Climbers are ripped right from Brawl.

....am I the only one that notices the differences between the Brawl models and the ones in the "leak"?

I agree.
They are not ripped off. They look a lot more detailed and more fuzzy than the brawl ones.
Their colors are also a bit different in my eyes, very slightly more darker.

 

[colder_than_ice]

Ivysaur is our only quadruped fighter

Duck hunt was a quadruped.

 

[KingBroly]

Spring Man is easy to tell that it's fake, given the small coloring around its' eyes. They're not coil-like, which they should be. It's a signature trait of almost ALL ARMS characters. And anyone making a Spring Man who's worth a damn would know that.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Spring Man is easy to tell that it's fake, given the small coloring around its' eyes. They're not coil-like, which they should be. It's a signature trait of almost ALL ARMS characters. And anyone making a Spring Man who's worth a damn would know that.

Unless the model is based off Spring Man concept art considering the time frame for the games development. Just playing devil's advocate but I also really want this leak to be something.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Lol, my shift last night was so lax that I was able to catch all the way up to page 831. Got a few things to reply to:

First is this potential trend that I notice about cut discussion. It's only a potential trend since I honestly don't pay enough attention to see if people who bring up one point I'm about to mention, also bring up the other but I at least notice that both are brought up a lot. Those points being that I often see 'Character X won't be cut because they have a unique moveset' usually mixed in with whatever they represent and how much they're loved and yada yada and then I also see 'Character Y won't be cut because they're an easy to add clone that takes almost no time at all'. There's hardly any middle ground between those 2 points. The whole deal with clones is that they aren't unique, they borrow animations, frame data, stats and whatever else from another character. If they weren't a clone, they'd fall under 'unique character'. Cuts happen and it's largely due to time constraints. There's eventually a deadline and if things don't go as planned then odds are, someone or something has to be missed out on to get as much into the game as they can. This is why clones are often cut and always considered low priority. Say Rex is gonna be in the game and they run into issues getting something about him to work as they want it to, and they fall behind. They're more likely to push back development on a character like Lucina or Dr. Mario to finish the new, unique character on time since they may just need that extra little bit of time. Deadline's can't always be moved.

That's not to say clones are always lowest priority as Brawl proved by bringing back the likes of Falco and Ganondorf and adding the likes of Wolf and Toon Link but not bringing back Mewtwo. Clones being cut first isn't exactly a rule but it is a noteworthy trend.

Second is something I noticed within Sm4sh itself and wanted to see what others thought. If you go to your fighter records in Sm4sh and you go to a record where no character has any data, then the characters are put into a particular order. I'll show the order in a spoiler

Spoiler

Is this not the order the cast was most likely prioritized in? The beginning of the list has 10 of the original 12, namely the original 8 and go figure, one of the 2 missing from the beginning is Puff who we know was low priority in Brawl. After that, it's all vets from Melee and then Brawl. Then it's 1st party newcomers and I believe it's even in the order they were announced and after Shulk it's the third parties with veteran Sonic being the first one. Bit scrambled after that though with the Miis and then oddly Ness and Puff then Falco, Ganon, G&W, Wario, R.O.B., Duck Hunt and Jr. It's scrambled but goes in order of character from 64 then Melee then Brawl then newcomers again and we know Jr almost didn't make it. Then it's the clones who we know were added at the very end and lastly it's the DLC characters in the order they were released in.

Side note to all of this: this is why coin battles are great. They aren't actually fun to play in but because I never do them, I get access to this.

Thirdly, around the area where I'm currently catching up, there was a mention of whether Puff is still a semi clone of Kirby or not. Puff still shares the same jab (Kirby's jab 1 and 2 are basically the same but of course he has a rapid jab finisher while Puff doesn't), ftilt, utilt, dtilt, grab, dash grab, pivot grab, bthrow, pummel, fsmash, dair, ledge attack, trip attack, get up attack, shield, rolls, spot dodge, battering item jab and fsmash (but not ftilt and dash attack), hammer swinging (item), gun firing, certain item tosses (it's hard to tell with some of them), walk (all speeds), multiple jumps, dizzyness (different expressions though and Puff of course has the whole flying to the moon after a shield break), sleeping and if you wanna get technical then dsmash (they both spin before kicking to both sides at the same time but Puff spins while charging while Kirby spins after the charge, if any). I honestly put more effort looking into this than I needed to but I'd say Puff is at least as much of a semi clone of Kirby as Lucas is of Ness, possibly even more since the pink marshmallows share more attack animations than the PK Kids do.

Lastly, why exactly do people look at Villager's up special and then immediately conclude that because of that one move that Balloon Fighter has no chance of getting in? In that case, what is Charizard doing in Smash? We already have a character well known for breathing fire with Bowser. Or why do we have Lucario when Mewtwo was already doing the whole 'charging a projectile that produces a hitbox with their hands' thing. Or Pit when we already had a character with a bladed weapon, a shield and a bow and arrow. Or Ike when Marth already had a sword focused moveset with a chargeable but not storable neutral special and a counter. Nevermind all of the clones we've gotten. If Balloon Fighter got in, there should be absolutely no problem with him and Villager sharing a single move together or possibly even more. It's not like a character can't be a clone of another character from a different franchise

TL;DR first is just the constant seeing of 'character X won't be cut because they're unique and character Y won't be cut because they're an easy to make clone' when there's very little room between those 2 observations. Plus a reminder that clones are often cut first, specifically because they're easy to make and therefore saved for the end. Second is just the possible priority list of characters in Sm4sh. Third is Puff is indeed a semi clone of Kirby still and fourth is Balloon Fighter can be in even if Villager keeps the same up special.

Maybe I'll actually get replies this time

The whole "clones are low priority" "trend" was only true for Brawl. In Smash 4, Toon Link, the only Brawl newcomer clone, was higher priority than Lucas, Wolf, Squirtle and Ivysaur (if ZSS could be a high-priority returning character despite transformations being cut, so could they). It's not even a trend, but just a fan assumption based off shaky foundations and biases with people grasping at straws to rationalise or ignore everything that goes against their black-and-white "clones are typically low priority and unique characters are safe" beliefs.

 

[Cosmic77]

Spring Man is easy to tell that it's fake, given the small coloring around its' eyes. They're not coil-like, which they should be. It's a signature trait of almost ALL ARMS characters. And anyone making a Spring Man who's worth a damn would know that.

Took another look at the pic, and you're right.

Not just with the lack of coils, but the eyes themselves look completely different. The eyes in the leaked image look much smaller than what we see in ARMS.

Unfortunately, this is only a minor detail, and the leak is still going to be hard to disprove. Almost every flaw we could find on Spring Man can be discredited by the "maybe it's just an early model" argument.

 

[Zerp]

I'm out of the loop, has this (most likely fake) leak showed off the roster screen yet or is it still just Decidueye, Spring Man and the Ice Climbers that we've seen?

 

[Krysco]

The whole "clones are low priority" "trend" was only true for Brawl. In Smash 4, Toon Link, the only Brawl newcomer clone, was higher priority than Lucas, Wolf, Squirtle and Ivysaur (if ZSS could be a high-priority returning character despite transformations being cut, so could they). It's not even a trend, but just a fan assumption based off shaky foundations and biases with people grasping at straws to rationalise or ignore everything that goes against their black-and-white "clones are typically low priority and unique characters are safe" beliefs.

There's a quote floating around somewhere of Sakurai mentioning that for Melee, the clones were added to pad out the roster since he could make something like 6 clones or 1 original character. That seems to imply the clones were added near the end when the dev team could more easily gauge how much extra time they had. This is similar to the clones in Sm4sh where Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit were made clones rather than alts because they simply had enough time at the end. The cuts from Melee to Brawl were all clones save for Mewtwo and the likes of Lucas and Wolf who borrow things from other characters but aren't full blown clones were cut from Brawl to Sm4sh. The fact that Dr. Mario was added near the end of both Melee and Sm4sh and didn't get into Brawl when data shows he was planned tells me that certain clones such as him are pretty much always low priority.

 

[Cosmic77]

The whole "clones are low priority" "trend" was only true for Brawl. In Smash 4, Toon Link, the only Brawl newcomer clone, was higher priority than Lucas, Wolf, Squirtle and Ivysaur (if ZSS could be a high-priority returning character despite transformations being cut, so could they). It's not even a trend, but just a fan assumption based off shaky foundations and biases with people grasping at straws to rationalise or ignore everything that goes against their black-and-white "clones are typically low priority and unique characters are safe" beliefs.

Pretty much what Krysco already said.


I also wanted to say that Toon Link was a semi-clone just like Wolf and Lucas. He was debatably the least unique of the three, yes, but I doubt anyone would argue that Toon Link was less iconic than Wolf or Lucas. Keeping him over the other two might have not been what I wanted personally, but I can't deny that it doesn't make sense.

Besides, Sakurai himself is an advocate for having a younger Link in Smash.

 

[Krysco]

Just erased my VS records in Melee to try the same thing I did on Sm4sh. Here's the order they appear in

Spoiler

Sheik doesn't show up presumably because she's paired with Zelda but the rest of that checks out with my theory. The clones are at the end along with G&W who is known to have been added late to Melee and the original 12 save for Luigi and Puff were added first with unique newcomers being in the middle.

I don't remember which video it is but I know MagicScrumpy has a video where he talks about (even if only briefly) the order the characters were added in. Pretty sure he used the debug menu to check that too. I'll try to find it and add it to this post.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Wolf and Lucas are no types of clone whereas Toon Link in Brawl is the closest thing to a Melee-style clone. Any comparison between the former two and Toon Link in terms of clone status doesn't work.

There's a quote floating around somewhere of Sakurai mentioning that for Melee, the clones were added to pad out the roster since he could make something like 6 clones or 1 original character. That seems to imply the clones were added near the end when the dev team could more easily gauge how much extra time they had. This is similar to the clones in Sm4sh where Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit were made clones rather than alts because they simply had enough time at the end. The cuts from Melee to Brawl were all clones save for Mewtwo and the likes of Lucas and Wolf who borrow things from other characters but aren't full blown clones were cut from Brawl to Sm4sh. The fact that Dr. Mario was added near the end of both Melee and Sm4sh and didn't get into Brawl when data shows he was planned tells me that certain clones such as him are pretty much always low priority.

And yet Falco was higher priority than Mewtwo.

 

[Krysco]

Wolf and Lucas are no types of clone whereas Toon Link in Brawl is the closest thing to a Melee-style clone. Any comparison between the former two and Toon Link in terms of clone status doesn't work.


And yet Falco was higher priority than Mewtwo.

I specifically mentioned that it doesn't apply to every clone. And Lucas shares certain things with Ness and Wolf is a bit of an amalgamation of other characters. Nair and usmash being like Sonic's nair and uair, his specials being similar to Fox's, a trait that Falco also shares. I know from experience that Wolf's item using animations are the exact same as Fox's. His grab and pummel I'm pretty sure are the same too. Again, Lucas and Wolf are not clones, not in the same sense as the Melee and Sm4sh ones but they are not entirely original characters either. Toon Link can even be considered a veteran honestly. He's a slightly 'Luigified' Young Link with a more modern design. He was put in to replace Young Link effectively.

 

[Cosmic77]

Wolf and Lucas are no types of clone whereas Toon Link in Brawl is the closest thing to a Melee-style clone. Any comparison between the former two and Toon Link in terms of clone status doesn't work.

A semi-clone is still a type of clone. You can't look at Wolf and Lucas's specials and tell me that they're just as unique as someone else from Brawl like Wario or Pit. Obviously they have more than a few moves inspired from other characters, and while it might not seem like it's to the same degree as Toon Link, you couldn't possibly argue that they are, as you put it, "no types of clone".

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Is Luigi going to be an unlockable character once again?

A semi-clone is still a type of clone. You can't look at Wolf and Lucas's specials and tell me that they're just as unique as someone else from Brawl like Wario or Pit. Obviously they have more than a few moves inspired from other characters, and while it might not seem like it's to the same degree as Toon Link, you couldn't possibly argue that they are, as you put it, "no types of clone".

Their Special Moves aren't even close to being the majority of their moves. Their A moves and throws (which makes up most of their moves set) are different. 4 or 5 moves that are similar to another character out of ~ 21 moves =/= semi-clones.

Just erased my VS records in Melee to try the same thing I did on Sm4sh. Here's the order they appear in

Spoiler

Sheik doesn't show up presumably because she's paired with Zelda but the rest of that checks out with my theory. The clones are at the end along with G&W who is known to have been added late to Melee and the original 12 save for Luigi and Puff were added first with unique newcomers being in the middle.

I don't remember which video it is but I know MagicScrumpy has a video where he talks about (even if only briefly) the order the characters were added in. Pretty sure he used the debug menu to check that too. I'll try to find it and add it to this post.

Roy being last would make sense as he was the newest character and his design went through several revisions.

 

[DraginHikari]

I get what you're saying, but if any character had leaked with video during the Brawl era, it would've been taken basically as gospel.

It just goes to show you how much things have changed. During the Brawl era the idea of someone making and producing realistic looking video of fake Smash Bros footage would have been so time consuming if not impossible for most. It shows how far graphic modding and amateur video creation has come.

 

[New_Dumal]

In the pre-Smash4 days, when I said that Jiglypuff could be cutted, a lot of people laugh and said I was stupid because she's part of "The Sacred 12'.

While I don't think she will be cutted this time around, it's fun to see that it was never that sacred.
I also think Lucario can be out this time but "Nooo, he have a unique mechanic".
A stupid mechanic that every single character kind of has by default now. Lucario is popular so maybe they make him DLC and start with Mewtwo this time around.