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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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PLATINUM7

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How many parents didn’t buy Jack and Daxter or Ratchet and Clank because they wanted to raise their kids on Nintendo. Just an example. Many of the game series I wish were still around were in Direct Competitin with the plumber.
Very few I imagine. The PS2 sold like what, 7-8 times more than the Gamecube. I kind of also have to question how many NES-SNES era gamers were parents by then and so loyal they had to raise their children in such a way.
 

DraginHikari

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Hey. The only reason it didn’t get more dlc was cause it didn’t sell well. And I mean, it’s hard to celebrate your own history when you owe so much of it to third party companies (especially with how much they owe to Square). But they did keep the online servers up until this very month.
The fact that it couldn't make an impact as it did says something about how the project was handled and how Sony approached the thing. Mario and Zelda success doesn't have anything to do with that. Your making connections that aren't actually there.

How many parents didn’t buy Jack and Daxter or Ratchet and Clank because they wanted to raise their kids on Nintendo. Just an example. Many of the game series I wish were still around were in Direct Competitin with the plumber.
So this is Nintendo's fault somehow? Look Nintendo has plenty of issues that can be pointed to as problems but your picking very weird reasons that seem kind of spiteful. The reason why people hate EA, Activision, etc is because their business practice has bled into the quality of their games. Nintendo has some crappy business aspects but they generally don't harm the reputation of the vast majority of their games which also results in less direct impact to the general gamer who doesn't care about the business politics will notice.
 
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doomedtacox

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other ways to show that something is illegal

you don't have to go for a million dollar lawsuit for something like this
It's called punitive damages my friend. They are simply doing what they are entitled to by law. They are the ones who have been wronged, not the other way around.
 

Zinith

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How many parents didn’t buy Jack and Daxter or Ratchet and Clank because they wanted to raise their kids on Nintendo. Just an example. Many of the game series I wish were still around were in Direct Competitin with the plumber.
Did you know that I grew up on Jak & Daxter and Ratchet & Clank?
 

Scoliosis Jones

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To be 100% clear, Playstations All-Stars Battle Royale being killed off early isn't Nintendo's fault for Smash being successful. It's Sony's fault for not having the same structure to make it wildly successful.

This reminds me much of what I've seen with the Cinematic universes for Marvel and DC. Marvel scaffolded their entire cinematic universe by doing the groundwork of introducing their heroes and making them independent of each other. What we have now is a widespread, deep set of movies/stories that stay at least somewhat true to the origins. They resonate with fans because it all seems to make sense as the MCU moves forward.

The DC movies...they went too much too fast. They crammed characters with seemingly no backstory into one movie, which is literally the exact opposite of what Marvel did with their big crossover movies.

Now, the properties/characters themselves are solid. Similar to Marvel and DC, Nintendo and Sony have some solid titles. However, I feel it's quite obvious that more than one thing went wrong when it came to PSASBR.

I mean, if we're going to blame Mario and Link for a game with Nathan Drake, Kratos, not doing as well as it could have, shouldn't Nathan Drake and Kratos be able to compete? They're AAA characters in their own right. The success of Mario and Zelda, or even Pokemon for that matter shouldn't impact it. As somebody who was excited for the game, the reason I dropped it wasn't because the roster was all that bad, but because the gameplay made it almost impossible to get truly engaged. Like there's no way I'd ever drop Smash entirely because I grew up with Nintendo, but if the gameplay made me want more, then we're looking at something entirely different.

In Smash, it's very straightforward in terms of what you need to do to win. You smack some people around, you knock them off the stage, you win. PSASBR tried replicating this, and failed. They changed things that didn't need to be changed. The team that made it wasn't experienced enough to get big name characters in, such as Cloud or even Sora. They didn't include key "Playstation" icons.

Though to be honest, another problem with the game is that Sony has always been big because of their 3rd party support. When you make a mascot fighter, the best thing up your sleeve is the fact that your first party catalog is expansive. In that regard, there is simply no company that can match Nintendo. I'm not saying that because I'm a "fanboy", I'm saying it because it's true. The source material matters.

The more characters you don't own, the more money you have to spend to get the ones you want. PSASBR failed because the gameplay wasn't executed well, and while I don't think it's as huge of a deal as some may, there were some key picks pissing from the roster.

I'm almost certain that if the dev team for the game stuck with a system that didn't rely on eliminating your opponents through the usage of (unbalanced) special attacks, the game would be more engaging for players of any skill level. The other thing with Smash is that it's accessible for players of all ages and skills levels. I'm not all that sure that PSASBR.

Basically, PSASBR has issues it needs to sort out before entirely blaming Smash and wishing it would fail. That's like basically throwing most if not all of the blame on the group that's successful and like...what? Yeah, it sucks that someone else being successful then leads to another product not being as successful, but there are always ways to make something accessible, engaging, and exciting for your customers. As a teacher, engagement is just about the most important thing I can focus on. It's not that different with branding your products.

That's just about all I'll say on that. It's not Smash's fault PSASBR underperformed. It's Sony and the dev team.
 
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FreeFox

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Personally, I think there is just one thing that Nintendo does that is completely horrible. And that is how agresive they get when protecting their IPs. They really dont like people making games with their chars.

The only company worse than Nintendo on that field would be Atlus. They are repulsively protective of what can be seen of their games.
 

Bionichute

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It's called punitive damages my friend. They are simply doing what they are entitled to by law. They are the ones who have been wronged, not the other way around.
i mean you're morally completely wrong here but whatever

companies deserve zero respect compared to actual individual lives
 

Robertman2

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fun fact, the loveroms people were illegally selling the information of people who used the site and likely won't even pay the full 12 million
 

Idon

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Do you understand how business law works? It definitely is fair because of the financial implication of the whole thing.

Don't do illegal stuff and you won't find yourself being sued, especially for millions of dollars. It's quite simple actually.
Yeah right and fruit thieves in the ****ing desert deserve to have their hand sliced off.

You're saying "something illegal" like they did something so heinous as to require millions of dollars in damages.

They put up games that neither Nintendo nor the original developers profit from anymore while running ads.
For that, they were charged with 100 million dollars in damages (which is hilarious), which when they plead guilty was lessened to only 12 million dollars.
If you don't find that ridiculous, I've got nothing more to say to you.

"Nintendo drives couple into homelessness" makes for some great headlines.

Of course, what's going to happen is that some Nintendo rep is going to take them into a room, and swear that they can pay a way more reasonable fee in exchange for not uploading roms anymore. Nintendo needs this case to set an example more than to actually get any money they may have lost back, which honestly, would be pretty damn negligible.
 
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doomedtacox

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i mean you're morally completely wrong here but whatever

companies deserve zero respect compared to actual individual lives
Yeah you clearly don't understand how the business world works. It runs on strict laws, not your "morals" which are subjective.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Ya'll can say which gaming company is the biggest loser in your eyes, but the true loser in gaming will always be a Polygon journalist :p.
To be 100% clear, Playstations All-Stars Battle Royale being killed off early isn't Nintendo's fault for Smash being successful. It's Sony's fault for not having the same structure to make it wildly successful.

This reminds me much of what I've seen with the Cinematic universes for Marvel and DC. Marvel scaffolded their entire cinematic universe by doing the groundwork of introducing their heroes and making them independent of each other. What we have now is a widespread, deep set of movies/stories that stay at least somewhat true to the origins. They resonate with fans because it all seems to make sense as the MCU moves forward.

The DC movies...they went too much too fast. They crammed characters with seemingly no backstory into one movie, which is literally the exact opposite of what Marvel did with their big crossover movies.

Now, the properties/characters themselves are solid. Similar to Marvel and DC, Nintendo and Sony have some solid titles. However, I feel it's quite obvious that more than one thing went wrong when it came to PSASBR.

I mean, if we're going to blame Mario and Link for a game with Nathan Drake, Kratos, not doing as well as it could have, shouldn't Nathan Drake and Kratos be able to compete? They're AAA characters in their own right. The success of Mario and Zelda, or even Pokemon for that matter shouldn't impact it. As somebody who was excited for the game, the reason I dropped it wasn't because the roster was all that bad, but because the gameplay made it almost impossible to get truly engaged. Like there's no way I'd ever drop Smash entirely because I grew up with Nintendo, but if the gameplay made me want more, then we're looking at something entirely different.

In Smash, it's very straightforward in terms of what you need to do to win. You smack some people around, you knock them off the stage, you win. PSASBR tried replicating this, and failed. They changed things that didn't need to be changed. The team that made it wasn't experienced enough to get big name characters in, such as Cloud or even Sora. They didn't include key "Playstation" icons.

Though to be honest, another problem with the game is that Sony has always been big because of their 3rd party support. When you make a mascot fighter, the best thing up your sleeve is the fact that your first party catalog is expansive. In that regard, there is simply no company that can match Nintendo. I'm not saying that because I'm a "fanboy", I'm saying it because it's true. The source material matters.

The more characters you don't own, the more money you have to spend to get the ones you want. PSASBR failed because the gameplay wasn't executed well, and while I don't think it's as huge of a deal as some may, there were some key picks pissing from the roster.

I'm almost certain that if the dev team for the game stuck with a system that didn't rely on eliminating your teammates through the usage of (unbalanced) special attacks, the game would be more engaging for players of any skill level. The other thing with Smash is that it's accessible for players of all ages and skills levels. I'm not all that sure that PSASBR.

Basically, PSASBR has issues it needs to sort out before entirely blaming Smash and wishing it would fail. That's like basically throwing most if not all of the blame on the group that's successful and like...what? Yeah, it sucks that someone else being successful then leads to another product not being as successful, but there are always ways to make something accessible, engaging, and exciting for your customers. As a teacher, engagement is just about the most important thing I can focus on. It's not that different with branding your products.

That's just about all I'll say on that. It's not Smash's fault PSASBR underperformed. It's Sony and the dev team.
Honestly, PSABR should've been a 2D fighting game.
 
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Luigi The President

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That's ****ing it y'all have driven me to my last resort ya god damn morals vs capitalism monkeys and all y'all WELL **** NINTENDO fellas

480px-Katalina_(Dark)_A.png


By explaining why each third party character belongs in Smash and why they're here explain to me why Katalina SHOULDN'T be in Smash
 
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PLATINUM7

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I think it's also kind of ridiculous to bring up Nintendo's popularity in relation to Jak and Daxter when what killed that franchise was Naughty Dog's other, more commercially successful games, Uncharted and The Last of Us. That and an internal change to only make "mature" games, games that Nintendo really doesn't have a strong line up of and wouldn't be directly competing with.

While Nintendo makes some dumb choices, like most recently anything online with the Switch, a lot of what I'm seeing here is stuff from which they've changed or just being angry that they've become successful. I don't get why companies should just stop releasing IP that makes them money because it... makes them money and that's somehow evil.
 
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doomedtacox

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Yeah right and fruit thieves deserve to have their hand sliced off.

You're saying "something illegal" like they did something so heinous as to require millions of dollars in damages.

They put up games that neither Nintendo nor the original developers profit from anymore while running ads.
For that, they were charged with 100 million dollars in damages (which is hilarious), which when they plead guilty was lessened to only 12 million dollars.
If you don't find that ridiculous, I've got nothing more to say to you.

"Nintendo drives couple into homelessness" makes for some great headlines.

Of course, what's going to happen is that some Nintendo rep is going to take them into a room, and swear that they can pay a way more reasonable fee in exchange for not uploading roms anymore. Nintendo needs this case to set an example more than to actually get any money they may have lost back, which honestly, would be pretty damn negligible.
The law doesn't make the punishment for thievery as cutting off hands, so that's completely different.

You sue someone based on the amount they profited or the amount of loss you suffered. It doesn't matter if it wasn't heinous, all that matters are the financial implications of the illegal act.
 

Idon

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That's ****ing it y'all have driven me to my last resort ya god damn morals vs capitalism monkeys

View attachment 181493

By explaining why each third party character belongs in Smash and why they're here explain to me why Katalina SHOULDN'T be in Smash
You're the one asserting something.
Explain to me why she should.

Other than, of course, the way she looks. Because I'll tell you now, that'll be the day we start adding hentai into Smash.
And by hentai I mean Saber.
 

Luigi The President

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You're the one asserting something.
Explain to me why she should.

Other than, of course, the way she looks. Because I'll tell you now, that'll be the day we start adding hentai into Smash.
And by hentai I mean Saber.
Here's my explanation:

Look at the post above you Idon and just entertain me so we can get off whatever the **** these people are on
 

Roberk

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That's ****ing it y'all have driven me to my last resort ya god damn morals vs capitalism monkeys and all y'all WELL **** NINTENDO fellas

View attachment 181493

By explaining why each third party character belongs in Smash and why they're here explain to me why Katalina SHOULDN'T be in Smash
>mobile/gacha not worthy
>shill
>Japan only
>anime
>sword user

Yeah, that's a yikes from me. /s
 

doomedtacox

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that's a problem with how the world works and not with me
"Problem", yeah sure. If you profit X amount from someone else's property, you can generally be sued for X amount. It's frankly the best and most fair method of punishing torts and breached contracts.
 
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DraginHikari

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The last few pages can come down to a few simple things:

1) The world is complicated.

2) Copyright and Trademark laws are confusing.

3) Nintendo on the business side is overzealous when it comes to their enforcement of said rules and has issues like most major companies do.

The question at the end of the day is 'Are these problems enough to get me to stop buying their products' given that this is a board focused quite heavily on a Nintendo product for most people I'm going to guess no.
 
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Luigifan18

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The last few pages can come down to simply things:

1) The world is complicated.

2) Copyright and Trademark laws are confusing.

3) Nintendo on the business side is overzealous when it comes to their enforcement of said rules as have issues like most major companies do.

The question in the end for most people comes down 'Are this problems enough to get me to stop buying there products' given that this is a board focus quite heavily on a Nintendo product for most people I'm going to guess no.
There's also the fact that a company that doesn’t aggressively protect its copyright property can end up losing said copyright property entirely. Yes, it's backwards and silly.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Regarding teh VGA thing.. did Leaky panda directly hinted at DQ? or he said that it may be related to VGA and we speculated DQ?..

Cause who knows? we may be sleeping on Monster Hunter XD

(although i would LOVE a Celeste stage in smash as some kind of separate DLC)

Still, so far i expect Metroid prime trilogy (HD??? *drools*) and Metroid Prime 4 news, maybe even a release date?
Leaky never explicitly stated it was DQ, but it lines up.
  • Marketing is concerned
  • Nomination at VGAs is secured
  • Game might not win due to a POLITICAL stunt (the composer of the game is a bigoted war crime denier)
  • Pretty much all sources saying that the SE character will be the first one revealed
It lines up almost perfectly
 

doomedtacox

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But anyways, to change the subject, if we do get a DLC reveal at the game awards, would Nintendo have had enough time to get a trailer ready that shows in game gameplay? Or would it just be a CGI trailer just to reveal who it is?
 

Robertman2

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how the **** does religion and wwii work n the cars universe
how did they crucify car jesus
did they even crucify him in the first place
what kind of car did the car nazis hate
 
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DraginHikari

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There's also the fact that a company that doesn’t aggressively protect its copyright property can end up losing said copyright property entirely. Yes, it's backwards and silly.
Yeah, plays a role in why media companies can get kind of aggressive with it. Nintendo seems to go a bit overboard with the whole thing out of a sense of paranoia but the line between proper enforcement and going too far can be a very thin line. I certainly don't have enough legal understanding to even begin to say what that is.
 

Bionichute

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But anyways, to change the subject, if we do get a DLC reveal at the game awards, would Nintendo have had enough time to get a trailer ready that shows in game gameplay? Or would it just be a CGI trailer just to reveal who it is?
considering only two characters from 4's dlc got trailers like that, im gonna say its just gonna be gameplay
 

FreeFox

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Leaky never explicitly stated it was DQ, but it lines up.
  • Marketing is concerned
  • Nomination at VGAs is secured
  • Game might not win due to a POLITICAL stunt (the composer of the game is a bigoted war crime denier)
  • Pretty much all sources saying that the SE character will be the first one revealed
It lines up almost perfectly
So Erdrick, Luminary and Slime might be the most likely newcomers?

At least, having the main theme of DQ woud be rad.
 
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