Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dyllybirdy]

This made me jealous.

The hardcover guide has 463 pages!? I'll just read it in school, then.

Damn, now I wish I hadn't preordered the game, before that steelbook version. was revealed lol.

 

[osby]

For a while, I find it funny whenever people want Impa, because I always think of the old lady in BotW (it’s my only LoZ game to date), and I’m like “Why do they want the old woman to fight???”

Honestly, I'd want her as an elderly lady.

Ok, but real talk about Impa, I always see the "but her most iconic design is as an old lady, she only appears young in three games and one is a spin-off!" used as an argument against her but, like, so what? Make her fkght as an old lady. Just have an old lady beating the **** out of all these Smash characters with ninja techniques and the like.
It makes for a fun scenario where you have this old lady kicking a bunch of *** and have a new unique type of fighter, and it helps sell the character to people who might not have been interested before. And it's not like Japan doesn't love the Badass Elderly trope.

As you said.

 

[WaddleMatt]

If Skyward Sword HD ever happens (Not gonna take notice of Nintendo's PR response that never mean anything anyway) could Impa be used as a promotion possibly?

 

[Deleted member]

None of them need to be. Gorons as a species are incredibly reoccurring. Hell, Daruk is already canonically a representative of the Gorons, being their Champion. That is arguably equal to being recurring.

Sorry if I misunderstood your argument. I thought you meant that no Gorons (or any Zelda characters outside of Impa) were eligible since they were not recurring. That is demonstrably not a factor for other series. And in those circumstances, it brings back the question of why Zelda is subject to rules that other series get a pass on?

If you meant something else, then what were you trying to say?

I do believe a Goron and a Zora should be playable, being the two most iconic species in the series(even more than not!Elfs and desert amazons). My point was that people were demanding for "reps" and recurring characters.

Also, you can't really compare a series with a consistent main cast but ever-changing side characters to series with one game or constantly shifting main casts. It's all based in comparison to their own series. Chrom and Corrin may have appeared in one main-series game but that's not too far off from the only two recurring protagonists Marth and Ike who only have one additional canonical appearance in comparison. Shulk was in 100% of the Xenoblade games at the time too. And Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt, for example, will always be in 100% of their series games because they only have one.


I still fully believe Impa should be the next Zelda character though.

 

[TriforceBun]

And if cameos don’t count.

Remind me again when that’s been an issue...?

And if “But some of them were in FE: Warriors count, then Midna, Skull Kid, Darunia, Ruto... are also recurrig.

Don't forget Sheik!

 

[Deleted member]

I kind of hate that we never got Ganon in Smash as playable. Ganondorf, when he was added, had been in only one game (whereas Ganon had been in all five Zeldas up to that point if we count his Zelda 2 appearance). In fact, even now, Ganondorf's really only made 3 appearances in the mainline series (4 with Hyrule Warriors), while Ganon's track record ranks in the double digits. He'd have an amazing moveset, too! It should've always been Ganon!!

I'd love to see a Lynel, too. Why not? They've been around since the beginning, have appeared in more Zelda games than any of the Zelda Smash roster besides (adult) Link and Zelda, and are once again relevant and feared thanks to BotW. And now that we have Piranha Plant as a common enemy, there's really nothing holding back Lynel except perhaps an awkward body shape.

Otherwise, Impa is long overdue. She's a legacy character, recognizable and has a move-set basically ready to go. She could even rep Hyrule Warriors.

That's three characters who've all been around since the first Zelda, have strong moveset potential and have made at least 5 appearances apiece in the series. It doesn't just have to be one-offs to pick from (although one-offs don't seem to be a problem for other series, like perennial whipping boy Fire Emblem). Let's get more Zelda characters in Smash already!

I will say this, the stage selection for Zelda has always been great. Every 3D game is represented (OoT twice), plus Spirit Tracks and whatever Temple is supposed to be.

Ganondorf and Ganon are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.

Also, Temple is based on Zelda II's dungeons, of all things.

 

[osby]

Don't forget Sheik!

Isn't Sheik like Ivysaur or Zero Suit Samus? She wouldn't be in without a transforming character, it's a bad example.

 

[DutchPichu]

Is there a video with like, every victory animation? I am really interested in seeing that.

 

[osby]

If Skyward Sword HD ever happens (Not gonna take notice of Nintendo's PR response that never mean anything anyway) could Impa be used as a promotion possibly?

Doubt it. For all buzz Corrin created aside, the number of characters that were put into Smash for promotion's sake is actually pretty low. We have a few Pokemon, Corrin, arguably Roy and that's pretty much it.

If Impa gets into Smash, they might tie her reveal to a potential SS HD. That doesn't mean they'll add a side character to Smash to promote a port.

 

[kirbsmash]

Who wants playable zoras or Gorons or ritos ??

 

[TriforceBun]

Ganondorf and Ganon are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.

I mean, obviously. But that's an odd point to bring up when we already have two Zeldas and three Links. I just wish we would've gotten Ganon in the first place. Not like Ganondorf's ever been done all that well in Smash anyway...

 

[kirbsmash]

I mean, obviously. But that's an odd point to bring up when we already have two Zeldas and three Links. I just wish we would've gotten Ganon in the first place. Not like Ganondorf's ever been done all that well in Smash anyway...

The links and Zeldas ARE not the same person. Hech, Toon wasn't Link reborn at all.

BOTW, WW, OOT Links

ZELDA FROM LINK TO THE PAST

 

[Wyoming]

Isn't Sheik like Ivysaur or Zero Suit Samus? She wouldn't be in without a transforming character, it's a bad example.

Hmmm not too sure about Zero Suit Samus. She plays a significant role in many Metroid games.
Could also say she was added for Metroid fans, since the options other than Ridley at the time were sparse.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I actually prefer Ganondorf to Ganon.

There’s something about putting a humanoid face on evil rather than a pig monster that makes it much more interesting to me.

Still would like him to make a return. I know loads of people hated the TP twist but I loved seeing the Dorf behind everything.

 

[beans]

Hmmm not too sure about Zero Suit Samus. She plays a significant role in many Metroid games.
Could also say she was added for Metroid fans, since the options other than Ridley at the time were sparse.

Pretty sure the only she was on at the time was Zero Mission.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Who wants playable zoras or Gorons or ritos ??

I'd love for Mipha to be playable.

 

[Cosmic77]

Who wants playable zoras or Gorons or ritos ??

I'll be happy with any.

Isn't Sheik like Ivysaur or Zero Suit Samus? She wouldn't be in without a transforming character, it's a bad example.

Hmmm not too sure about Zero Suit Samus. She plays a significant role in many Metroid games.
Could also say she was added for Metroid fans, since the options other than Ridley at the time were sparse.

It's 50/50. I think the only reason we got ZSS to begin with is because Sakurai was specifically trying to add a second Metroid character in Brawl and he didn't think Ridley could work. Should he have added Ridley or just given up on the idea of a second Metroid rep, she probably wouldn't be in.

But no, unlike Sheik and PT (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard), I don't think her transformation gimmick is what got her in.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

You guys: "Zelda needs more characters, it's poorly represented!"
Me: "The only newcomer who could actually 'rep' the Zelda series is Impa because no other character not already in could properly 'represent' the franchise as a whole."
Also you guys: "Ugh why you talking about reps!? No one cares about that."

If the ***** can get in Smash to rep the Mario series, Zelda can be a new character

Pretty sure the only she was on at the time was Zero Mission.

She made a cameo in MP2 and Hunters before joining Smash

 

[Deleted member]

You know who’s be cool? Vaati. He could have a wind moveset. That’d be interesting.

 

[osby]

Pretty sure the only she was on at the time was Zero Mission.

I think we can say the term "Zero Suit Samus" loosely refers to Samus without her Varia Suit. After all, two of her alts are her outfits that isn't Zero Suit.

So arguably, she's as old as the very first Metroid.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I sure am glad we have Roy and his numerous appearances throughout the FE series to properly represent the franchise as whole. He has such a rich history spanning across multiple FE games.

Sarcasm aside, we don't need a character who "represents" the entire Zelda franchise, and I certainly don't want Sakurai to limit himself to characters based on how many appearances they've made. Just about any iconic and/or popular character who could represent a single game from the Zelda series would be fine.

I might be echoing common held opinions here, but if I had to pick Zelda newcomers i’d go with Impa and Vaati. Skull Kid would be there too if he wasn’t an assist trophy

 

[kirbsmash]

I owned MM, BOTW, and Wind Waker, also four swords. Also hyrule warriors. I have played OOT and NES Zelda 1 and 2.

Of out of these games, I want an goron or rito.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I think we can say the term "Zero Suit Samus" loosely refers to Samus without her Varia Suit. After all, two of her alts are her outfits that isn't Zero Suit.

So arguably, she's as old as the very first Metroid.

Zero Mission’s release date WAS used for her placement in Smash4’s All-Star Mode. But then again they also used Wind Walker for Toon Link when his first appearance was technically earlier that month in Four Swords so.... whatever

 

[Curious Villager]

Ganondorf and Ganon are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.

>Zelda and Sheik are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Link and young Link are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Mario and Dr.Mario are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Samus and Zero Suit Samus are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.

If people want to support Ganon alongside with Ganondorf, they are free to do so, after all, Sakurai doesn't care as he has clearly shown time and again.
Heck he made Chrom both playable and a Final Smash just so that his fans could be happy that he's finally playable.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I do believe a Goron and a Zora should be playable, being the two most iconic species in the series(even more than not!Elfs and desert amazons). My point was that people were demanding for "reps" and recurring characters.

Also, you can't really compare a series with a consistent main cast but ever-changing side characters to series with one game or constantly shifting main casts. It's all based in comparison to their own series. Chrom and Corrin may have appeared in one main-series game but that's not too far off from the only two recurring protagonists Marth and Ike who only have one additional canonical appearance in comparison. Shulk was in 100% of the Xenoblade games at the time too. And Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt, for example, will always be in 100% of their series games because they only have one.


I still fully believe Impa should be the next Zelda character though.

Oh please no. No common races or jobber enemies. I do NOT want Piranha Plant to set a precedence. The roster would get so boring.

 

[osby]

>Zelda and Sheik are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Link and young Link are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Mario and Dr.Mario are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Samus and Zero Suit Samus are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.

If people want to support Ganon alongside with Ganondorf new and unique to the table, they are free to do so, after all, Sakurai doesn't care as he has clearly shown time and again.

I think OP was about number of appearances.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmmm not too sure about Zero Suit Samus. She plays a significant role in many Metroid games.
Could also say she was added for Metroid fans, since the options other than Ridley at the time were sparse.

The options that Metroid fans imagined before Ridley getting in were the bounty hunters from Prime Hunters and Prime 3, alongside Dark Samus.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

The problem with Zelda is that overall the franchise focusses on the Triforce trio and while we have characters like Midna who had popularity like Rosalina in the Brawl days, didn't have the luck unlike Rosalina to become prominent in spinoffs, because Zelda as a franchise doesn't really have spinoffs.

Impa, Tingle and Skull Kid are the only characters that are really recurring and Skull Kid's popularity is more from Majora's Mask being such a cult classic.

 

[TriforceBun]

The links and Zeldas ARE not the same person. Hech, Toon wasn't Link reborn at all.

BOTW, WW, OOT Links

ZELDA FROM LINK TO THE PAST

In Melee, they were the same characters. Plus, as Curious Villager pointed out, there's a non-Zelda precedent for that anyway with ZSS and Doc.

 

[PeridotGX]

The only Hunters that have Spirits are Trace, Kanden, and Gandrayda, the rest of the Hunters are missing.

Why did they chose the obscure ones? I'm not a Metroid fan, but I've never heard of them. I have heard of Sylux, Weasel, and Rundas.

 

[Deleted member]

>Zelda and Sheik are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Link and young Link are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Mario and Dr.Mario are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Samus and Zero Suit Samus are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.

If people want to support Ganon alongside with Ganondorf, they are free to do so, after all, Sakurai doesn't care as he has clearly shown time and again.
Heck he made Chrom both playable and a Final Smash just so that his fans could be happy that he's finally playable.

>Luigi and Mario are the same person. Why would the first get his own moveset?

 

[Curious Villager]

I think OP was about number of appearances.

I believe the OP before that was more about the entity of Ganon that was more recurring, which is true that the Pig Ganon form was more recurring than the human form of Ganondorf. Eitherway though, their both highly notable and iconic enough in the Zelda series that they both can (and imo should be) playable in Smash.

 

[GoeGoe]

A.G.L. Pheww.. thought I'd never find it.
Ok, so I couldn't find a link (probably rights stuff) but the track was "To Zanarkand".Hmm, maybe I was mistaken, I'm not sure if that's his rendition or the actual track that was included in the game (haven't played 10).
Ok, I checked. It seems it was his rendition as the original was played in piano.

 

[Deleted member]

We will get the Ganon from the cartoon and you will like his inclusion.

 

[Wyoming]

>Zelda and Sheik are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Link and young Link are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Mario and Dr.Mario are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.
>Samus and Zero Suit Samus are the same person. How many times do we have to teach people this.

If people want to support Ganon alongside with Ganondorf, they are free to do so, after all, Sakurai doesn't care as he has clearly shown time and again.
Heck he made Chrom both playable and a Final Smash just so that his fans could be happy that he's finally playable.

Ganon would differ from Ganondorf so much that them being the same entity doesn't matter. Tridents, dual swords, proper wizardry...all stuff that could make him fun. And he's the OG Zelda villain to boot that has appeared many times afterwards.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

You know who’s be cool? Vaati. He could have a wind moveset. That’d be interesting.

in his Minish Cap design, yeah

 

[Robertman2]

The problem with Zelda is that overall the franchise focusses on the Triforce trio and while we have characters like Midna who had popularity like Rosalina in the Brawl days, didn't have the luck unlike Rosalina to become prominent in spinoffs, because Zelda as a franchise doesn't really have spinoffs.

Impa, Tingle and Skull Kid are the only characters that are really recurring and Skull Kid's popularity is more from Majora's Mask being such a cult classic.

Skull Kid shouldn't even count. OoT was retroactive, and Twilight Princess is a cameo at most

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Why did they chose the obscure ones? I'm not a Metroid fan, but I've never heard of them. I have heard of Sylux, Weasel, and Rundas.

This right here is what could make or break characters deconfirm spirits for me(besides the whole Pirahna Plant situation). Sylux is honestly the only prominent hunter there is and if you follow Metroid as a franchise, you know he is going to be playing a major role in Prime 4, so he is a very likely candidate to be a promotional rep like Corrin

 

[Deleted member]

Smash Ultimate on Virtual Boy.

 

[Pyra]

Uncle Rupee for Smash as the next Zelda rep