Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I mean I don't think the DQ rep being numerous heroes as alt costumes is too likely.

That is at minimum 8 different DQ reps.
All who must be licensed.

Alt probably arent going to be as much of a problem as music is gonna be. Music would be impossible unless they give the dude enough money for the stick to come out of his ass

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Actually, you're wrong. This is the best possible Zelda rep

Spoiler: The Groose is loose

View attachment 180859

And, just like Linebeck, he also got robbed, in Hyrule Warriors.

 

[Kawaki&Boruto98]

I GOT SMASH!!! Finally!!!!

 

[Cosmic77]

On the topic of Zelda newcomers, there's no real excuse as to why we can't get another.

I don't know Sakurai's reasoning behind the lack of Zelda characters, but if it involves most of the realistic choices being one-offs, then I think he's writing off a lot of unique and creative characters over something as stupid as, "Sorry, but all Zelda characters need a minimum of two main series appearances." He's taken a chance with characters far riskier than most of the popular Zelda characters we discuss in this thread, and I don't see him as someone who would restrict a franchise with weird and ridiculously specific rules. While I don't know for certain, my guess is that Zelda has poor timing with the release of it's games in relation to when Sakurai starts development on a new Smash game.

That being said, I'm honestly not sure how the series will move forward in Smash. If a monster like BotW couldn't get us a newcomer, then I don't have high hopes for future games. BotW set the bar incredibly high, introduced a new generation to Zelda, and it still wasn't enough apparently.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

No rules. No realism. Just pure dreams.

Top 11 characters I want in Smash Bros (I like to go one step beyond)

1. Geno (Obvs)
2. Banjo and Kazooie (Obvs)
3. Heihachi Mishima (Tekken)
4. Dig Dug
5. Alex Roivas (Eternal Darkness)
6. Wonder Red (Wonderful 101)
7. Rayman
8. Doom Slayer
9. Crash Bandicoot
10. Spyro the Dragon
11. Circus Baby (Five Nights at Freddy’s)

Top 11 Stages

1. Mario Party
2. Endless Ocean
3. Tetris
4. Skyrim
5. Roivas Family Estate
6. Freezeezy Peak
7. Minecraft (Nintendo launches a special Minecraft server where users can actually build the stage within a set area. Server frequently patrolled to remove unauthorized copyrighted material and NSFW content)
8. Band Land
9. Wumpa Islands
10. Giygas Battle
11. Gyromite

11 Characters I want...

1. Tap Trial Girl
2. Rhythm Reporter (Because one RH rep isn't enough)
3. Steve
4. Katalina
5. Elma
6. Min Min
7. Bandanna Waddle Dee
8. Ayumi Tachibana
9. Crash Bandicoot
10. Master Chief
11. Edelgard


11 Stages I want

1. Remix 10 (Rhythm Heaven)
2. City Escape (Sonic Adventure 2)
3. Tetris (Tetris)
4. Virtual Boy (Virtual Boy)
5. New World (Minecraft)
6. N. Sanity Beach (Crash Bandicoot)
7. Aether Paradise (Pokemon Sun and Moon)
8. Ramen Bowl (ARMS)
9. Nintendo Kyoto Headquarters
10. Console History (A stage where the platforms are Nintendo consoles from over the years)
11. Mappy (Mappy)

 

[Freduardo]

Ya'll are sleeping on the best possible Zelda rep

*cries because he got robbed in hyrule warriors*

Huh, Vaati looks a lot like linebeck in this photo

 

[CaptainAmerica]

On the topic of Zelda newcomers, there's no real excuse as to why we can't get another.

I don't know Sakurai's reasoning behind the lack of Zelda characters, but if it involves most of the realistic choices being one-offs, then I think he's writing off a lot of unique and creative characters over something as stupid as, "Sorry, but all Zelda characters need a minimum of two main series appearances." He's taken a chance with characters far riskier than most of the popular Zelda characters we discuss in this thread, and I don't see him as someone who would restrict a franchise with weird and ridiculously specific rules. While I don't know for certain, my guess is that Zelda has poor timing with the release of it's games in relation to when Sakurai starts development on a new Smash game.

That being said, I'm honestly not sure how the series will move forward in Smash. If a monster like BotW couldn't get us a newcomer, then I don't have high hopes for future games. BotW set the bar incredibly high, introduced a new generation to Zelda, and it still wasn't enough apparently.

I’m guessing Link just served as the ‘BotW newcomer’...

Still, there are Zelda characters like Midna and Skull Kid who aren’t as divisive as Tingle but still are very recognizable in the Nintendo fandom as a whole. I’d argue they are more recognizable than some of the characters who did get into Smash.

I agree that every Zelda just seems to be a product of poor timing, particularly since Sakurai made that statement about Robin/Lucina back in 4.

Whatever the reason though, we currently have one of Nintendo’s flagships represented by three unique movesets and three semi-clones - and a grand total of three characters in several different forms. Not to mention that one of those three movesets is fully original to Smash. It seems the extreme example of “we’re only taking the main character.”

Another point - Paly’s guidance makes the point that these aren’t the same characters from before. It isn’t “Link in hos BotW gear,” it’s “The Link from BotW.” Also not a fan of not considering them a conglomerate of all Links anymore...

 

[Alaskalana]

Yeah, they have
View attachment 180789

Lmao this is beautiful.

But in all seriousness, from what I can remember I saw Kid Dracula (the shadow on the wall), Carmilla, Wolfman, The Creature w Fleaman, The Mummy, Dracula's 2nd Form, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

People who still complain about Zelda's representation in Smash when it's by far one of the best is funny to me. It has 100% of its relevant cast already.
If you still think it should get a new character, then ya'll better be asking for Impa.

 

[Alaskalana]

Lmao this is beautiful.

But in all seriousness, from what I can remember I saw Kid Dracula (the shadow on the wall), Carmilla, Wolfman, The Creature w Fleaman, The Mummy, Dracula's 2nd Form, etc.

Maybe Jekyll/Hyde? I gotta watch the trailer again.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People who still complain about Zelda's representation in Smash when it's by far one of the best is funny to me. It has 100% of its relevant cast already.
If you still think it should get a new character, then ya'll better be asking for Impa.

Bad Shishœ. No maps or paperwork for a month

 

[Deleted member]

If Impa does get in, I hope she’s unique. I know Hyrule Warriors is a spin-off, but she could have such a cool moveset derived from that game.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I like the Simon, Ridley, and Inkling hats just fine, there's no glaring issues with either of the three and Kirby pulls off the hair of the former pretty well.

Isabelle I agree the puff should've had something alongside it, it's not bad, it just looks plain compared to the majority of Kirby's other hats.

K. Rool and Incineroar got the short end of the stick. I can't exactly put my finger on why Incineroar doesn't appeal to me, but K. Rool really should've had the eye at least as without it the hat looks weird and even offputting in some respects.

Tbh I think Inciniroar and K. Rool arwnpassable imo, But Isabelle is just weird. Should’ve just given him the full hairdo

 

[Cosmic77]

I’m guessing Link just served as the ‘BotW newcomer’...

Still, there are Zelda characters like Midna and Skull Kid who aren’t as divisive as Tingle but still are very recognizable in the Nintendo fandom as a whole. I’d argue they are more recognizable than some of the characters who did get into Smash.

I agree that every Zelda just seems to be a product of poor timing, particularly since Sakurai made that statement about Robin/Lucina back in 4.

Whatever the reason though, we currently have one of Nintendo’s flagships represented by three unique movesets and three semi-clones - and a grand total of three characters in several different forms. Not to mention that one of those three movesets is fully original to Smash. It seems the extreme example of “we’re only taking the main character.”

Another point - Paly’s guidance makes the point that these aren’t the same characters from before. It isn’t “Link in hos BotW gear,” it’s “The Link from BotW.” Also not a fan of not considering them a conglomerate of all Links anymore...

It's just frustrating trying to figure out what targets these Zelda characters are missing whenever a new Smash game gets announced. Like you said, there's several Zelda reps who are far more iconic and recognizable than characters who are already on the roster, yet they seem to struggle more than any one of Nintendo's larger franchises.

I know I can't complain too much since Zelda has gotten tons of attention through items and stages, but it's so surreal when you realize FE has more unique characters than something as big as Zelda. Heck, Metroid, a series with practically no characters from its limited cast who could realistically work in Smash, is currently tied with Zelda in unique characters, despite the latter having many more options to choose from.

Almost feels like Sakurai is content with the current Zelda characters, not even giving a second thought to the other possible additions because there's no reason to add them.

People who still complain about Zelda's representation in Smash when it's by far one of the best is funny to me. It has 100% of its relevant cast already.
If you still think it should get a new character, then ya'll better be asking for Impa.

That, or we could support whatever character we think would be a unique addition because Piranha Plant proves to us that Sakurai doesn't give a crap about representing "important and highly relevant characters" if he can make the character fun.

Saying relevant characters like Impa are our only hope is just another ridiculous assumption by fans. If it were that simple, Impa would've gotten in Smash by now, as OoT3D and SS was released just before Smash 4 started development. There was never a time when she was more relevant, and she still couldn't get in.

 

[Opossum]

People who still complain about Zelda's representation in Smash when it's by far one of the best is funny to me. It has 100% of its relevant cast already.
If you still think it should get a new character, then ya'll better be asking for Impa.

This slight against Gorons shall not stand.

 

[Deleted member]

Bad Shishœ. No maps or paperwork for a month

Just accept Impa should get in

That, or we could support whatever character we think would be a unique addition because Piranha Plant proves to us that Sakurai doesn't give a crap about representing "important and highly relevant characters" if he can make the character fun.

Saying relevant characters like Impa are our only hope is just another ridiculous assumption by fans. If it were that simple, Impa would've gotten in Smash by now, as OoT3D and SS was released just before Smash 4 started development. There was never a time when she was more relevant, and she still couldn't get in.

If ya'll gonna complains about "reps" then ya'll gonna have to choose someone who actually "reps" something

This slight against Gorons shall not stand.

yeah but which one of them is a recurring character?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

No rules. No realism. Just pure dreams.

Top 11 characters I want in Smash Bros (I like to go one step beyond)

1. Geno (Obvs)
2. Banjo and Kazooie (Obvs)
3. Heihachi Mishima (Tekken)
4. Dig Dug
5. Alex Roivas (Eternal Darkness)
6. Wonder Red (Wonderful 101)
7. Rayman
8. Doom Slayer
9. Crash Bandicoot
10. Spyro the Dragon
11. Circus Baby (Five Nights at Freddy’s)

Top 11 Stages

1. Mario Party
2. Endless Ocean
3. Tetris
4. Skyrim
5. Roivas Family Estate
6. Freezeezy Peak
7. Minecraft (Nintendo launches a special Minecraft server where users can actually build the stage within a set area. Server frequently patrolled to remove unauthorized copyrighted material and NSFW content)
8. Band Land
9. Wumpa Islands
10. Giygas Battle
11. Gyromite

1. Layton
2. Don-chan
3. Amaturasu
4. Chibiturasu
5. Yu/Yusuke/Yosuke/Joker
6. Spyro
7. Pumpkaboo
8. DQ Builder
9. Super Beat Sports kid
10. Erik
11. Sylvando

Stages

1. London(Layton)
2. Gressenheller University (Layton)
3. Behind the TV (P4)
4. Mementos (P5)
5. Shinshu Field (okami)
6. North and South Ryoshima Coast(okami)
7. Sei'an City (Okami)
8. Harajuku (TMS#FE)
9. Shy Guy Falls
10. Maple Treeway
11. Koopa Cape

 

[Curious Villager]

I think the reason Zelda is in the state as it currently is because it suffers from the Rythm Heaven support syndrome. There are way to many different characters people want from the Zelda franchise, so support is a lot more spread out and divided. Some want Skull Kid, some want Ganon, others want Impa, some want Tetra etc etc etc, things get thin and thus it become more hard to tell which character in particular to go with.

Not to mention that a lot of fans are constantly at war with each other by plopping in unnecessary "rules" on to each other just to try to control the amount of support certain characters get. The "no more triforce wielders" or "no one off's" rules in particular is often thrown out just to limit support for certain characters, causing nothing more but more divide between each fanbase.

That's just my two cents on that though. We're probably getting a playable Goron or Octorock at some point anyway to hit a middle ground between the two...

 

[Iridium]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Not a tether recovery, but looks good otherwise.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

yeah but which one of them is a recurring character?

And if cameos don’t count.

Remind me again when that’s been an issue...?

And if “But some of them were in FE: Warriors count, then Midna, Skull Kid, Darunia, Ruto... are also recurrig.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

If Impa does get in, I hope she’s unique. I know Hyrule Warriors is a spin-off, but she could have such a cool moveset derived from that game.

I'm personally hoping she gets her Skyward Sword design...

Mostly because that game got overlooked in Smash 4 when it came to the Zelda characters's designs (despite being the most recent Zelda game released at that time), and decided to stick with the Twilight Princess looks they used in Brawl... With Smash Ultimate taking designs for the Zelda characters from multiple games, it isn't too out the question...

 

[kirbsmash]

I want an Goron or Impa. Do Hyrule warriors count in Smash?

 

[Cosmic77]

If ya'll gonna complains about "reps" then ya'll gonna have to choose someone who actually "reps" something

Sort of like how Greninja and Incineroar will be wonderful reps for future Pokemon games. I can see Game Freak really busting those two out when it's time to promote Gen VIII. Or how about Corrin? He'd be great promotion for Three Houses.

You can still be important to a franchise without making multiple appearances (Skull Kid, Midna, etc.) Representing a single game isn't unheard of, and I doubt being recurring was ever a qualification for Zelda characters to begin with.

 

[Iridium]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Footage of the many things King Dedede can spit out, if I'm not late.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

No rules. No realism. Just pure dreams.

Top 11 characters I want in Smash Bros (I like to go one step beyond)

1. Geno (Obvs)
2. Banjo and Kazooie (Obvs)
3. Heihachi Mishima (Tekken)
4. Dig Dug
5. Alex Roivas (Eternal Darkness)
6. Wonder Red (Wonderful 101)
7. Rayman
8. Doom Slayer
9. Crash Bandicoot
10. Spyro the Dragon
11. Circus Baby (Five Nights at Freddy’s)

Top 11 Stages

1. Mario Party
2. Endless Ocean
3. Tetris
4. Skyrim
5. Roivas Family Estate
6. Freezeezy Peak
7. Minecraft (Nintendo launches a special Minecraft server where users can actually build the stage within a set area. Server frequently patrolled to remove unauthorized copyrighted material and NSFW content)
8. Band Land
9. Wumpa Islands
10. Giygas Battle
11. Gyromite

My choices are:
(trying to only list the ones I want the very most, esle with no rules the list can be infinite including characters created by myself unrelated to existing fanchises XD)

Characters

1. Adeleine (& Ribbon or not, as long as Adeleine is in)
2. Ganon (classic blue pig)
3. Karate Joe
4. Cpt Syrup
5. Alley Cat from that old IBM DOS game (as a rival to Duck Hunt) (never happening)

Stages

1. Rock Star 4+boss from Kirby 64 (video) (never happening)
2. Still from Kirby 64, the forest stage from Pop-Star (never happening as well)
3. Tal Tal Heights/Mountain
4. Lost Woods/Sacred Woods/Kokiri Forest/Deku Tree moving stage from OoT (completely redesigned with modern graphics) (never happening too)
5. Bowser's Castle (because let's be honest, this absence has always been stupid)

 

[osby]

Sort of like how Greninja and Incineroar will be wonderful reps for future Pokemon games. I can see Game Freak really busting those two out when it's time to promote Gen VIII. Or how about Corrin? He'd be great promotion for Three Houses.

You can still be important to a franchise without making multiple appearances (Skull Kid, Midna, etc.) Representing a single game isn't unheard of, and I doubt being recurring was ever a qualification for Zelda characters to begin with.

Nobody really argues about the importance or iconicness of Zelda characters. It's just there are very few recurring (read: objectively deserving) ones and fans can't make up their minds about one, so it's hard for fan support to get them into the game.

Even if being recurring isn't a hard necessity, it seems pretty helpful, considering only a clone and a moveset add-on managed to get in without being in multiple titles.

 

[Deleted member]

And if cameos don’t count.

Remind me again when that’s been an issue...?

And if “But some of them were in FE: Warriors count, then Midna, Skull Kid, Darunia, Ruto... are also recurrig.

Love the apples to oranges comparison

Sort of like how Greninja and Incineroar will be wonderful reps for future Pokemon games. I can see Game Freak really busting those two out when it's time to promote Gen VIII. Or how about Corrin? He'd be great promotion for Three Houses.

You can still be important to a franchise without making multiple appearances (Skull Kid, Midna, etc.) Representing a single game isn't unheard of, and I doubt being recurring was ever a qualification for Zelda characters to begin with.

Love having my point completely misunderstood

 

[Cosmic77]

Nobody really argues about the importance or iconicness of Zelda characters. It's just there are very few recurring (read: objectively deserving) ones and fans can't make up their minds about one, so it's hard for fan support to get them into the game.

Even if being recurring isn't a hard necessity, it seems pretty helpful, considering only a clone and a moveset add-on managed to get in without being in multiple titles.

I'm not denying recurring characters have an advantage, but I don't buy into the idea that they're our best shot at a Zelda rep. Skull Kid has only appeared in one game, yet very few would argue he's less iconic than Impa, a character with multiple appearances.

And as far as a lack of unison within the fanbase goes, I'll admit that it probably gets in the way a little bit, but I don't exactly believe it's responsible for our lack of Zelda characters either. Waluigi has consistently been the most requested Mario character since Brawl, but there have been four other characters from his franchise who have gotten in before him.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys: "Zelda needs more characters, it's poorly represented!"
Me: "The only newcomer who could actually 'rep' the Zelda series is Impa because no other character not already in could properly 'represent' the franchise as a whole."
Also you guys: "Ugh why you talking about reps!? No one cares about that."

 

[lightdrago]

For a while, I find it funny whenever people want Impa, because I always think of the old lady in BotW (it’s my only LoZ game to date), and I’m like “Why do they want the old woman to fight???”

 

[Opossum]

Just accept Impa should get in

If ya'll gonna complains about "reps" then ya'll gonna have to choose someone who actually "reps" something

yeah but which one of them is a recurring character?

None of them need to be. Gorons as a species are incredibly reoccurring. Hell, Daruk is already canonically a representative of the Gorons, being their Champion. That is arguably equal to being recurring.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Love the apples to oranges comparison

Sorry if I misunderstood your argument. I thought you meant that no Gorons (or any Zelda characters outside of Impa) were eligible since they were not recurring. That is demonstrably not a factor for other series. And in those circumstances, it brings back the question of why Zelda is subject to rules that other series get a pass on?

If you meant something else, then what were you trying to say?

 

[Iridium]

This made me jealous.

The hardcover guide has 463 pages!? I'll just read it in school, then.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I GOT SMASH!!! Finally!!!!

You're six days too early

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

This might be the critic inside of me talking, but I don't think we'll get any really nostalgic characters in our dlc packs... the most we might get is probably just Rayman or someone still relevant today.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok, but real talk about Impa, I always see the "but her most iconic design is as an old lady, she only appears young in three games and one is a spin-off!" used as an argument against her but, like, so what? Make her fkght as an old lady. Just have an old lady beating the **** out of all these Smash characters with ninja techniques and the like.
It makes for a fun scenario where you have this old lady kicking a bunch of ass and have a new unique type of fighter, and it helps sell the character to people who might not have been interested before. And it's not like Japan doesn't love the Badass Elderly trope.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This made me jealous.

The hardcover guide has 463 pages!? I'll just read it in school, then.

I love that this proves you can't get a physical copy without the Box Theory sitting there, mocking you constantly

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Ok, but real talk about Impa, I always see the "but her most iconic design is as an old lady, she only appears young in three games and one is a spin-off!" used as an argument against her but, like, so what? Make her fkght as an old lady. Just have an old lady beating the **** out of all these Smash characters with ninja techniques and the like.
It makes for a fun scenario where you have this old lady kicking a bunch of *** and have a new unique type of fighter, and it helps sell the character to people who might not have been interested before. And it's not like Japan doesn't love the Badass Elderly trope.

I just want her BotW design in Smash and for her to play like the DLC Monk Boss whose name I’m blanking out on.

 

[Cosmic77]

You guys: "Zelda needs more characters, it's poorly represented!"
Me: "The only newcomer who could actually 'rep' the Zelda series is Impa because no other character not already in could properly 'represent' the franchise as a whole."
Also you guys: "Ugh why you talking about reps!? No one cares about that."

I sure am glad we have Roy and his numerous appearances throughout the FE series to properly represent the franchise as whole. He has such a rich history spanning across multiple FE games.

Sarcasm aside, we don't need a character who "represents" the entire Zelda franchise, and I certainly don't want Sakurai to limit himself to characters based on how many appearances they've made. Just about any iconic and/or popular character who could represent a single game from the Zelda series would be fine.

 

[TriforceBun]

I kind of hate that we never got Ganon in Smash as playable. Ganondorf, when he was added, had been in only one game (whereas Ganon had been in all five Zeldas up to that point if we count his Zelda 2 appearance). In fact, even now, Ganondorf's really only made 3 appearances in the mainline series (4 with Hyrule Warriors), while Ganon's track record ranks in the double digits. He'd have an amazing moveset, too! It should've always been Ganon!!

I'd love to see a Lynel, too. Why not? They've been around since the beginning, have appeared in more Zelda games than any of the Zelda Smash roster besides (adult) Link and Zelda, and are once again relevant and feared thanks to BotW. And now that we have Piranha Plant as a common enemy, there's really nothing holding back Lynel except perhaps an awkward body shape.

Otherwise, Impa is long overdue. She's a legacy character, recognizable and has a move-set basically ready to go. She could even rep Hyrule Warriors.

That's three characters who've all been around since the first Zelda, have strong moveset potential and have made at least 5 appearances apiece in the series. It doesn't just have to be one-offs to pick from (although one-offs don't seem to be a problem for other series, like perennial whipping boy Fire Emblem). Let's get more Zelda characters in Smash already!

I will say this, the stage selection for Zelda has always been great. Every 3D game is represented (OoT twice), plus Spirit Tracks and whatever Temple is supposed to be.