Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

-We are already simulating fighting the character through Spirits. Why would they put them in as DLC, when we can already fight them in a sense?

First the Miis, now this.
Sakurai really wants to get the "hey they aren't playable stop asking" into peoples' minds doesn't he?
I mean, Chrom? Get outta here. Ashley? Actually get outta here.

 

[Pyra]

-We are already simulating fighting the character through Spirits. Why would they put them in as DLC, when we can already fight them in a sense?

cause DLC doesn't follow rules

 

[Deleted member]

There is a possibility that spirits could potentially deconfirm a character as DLC maybe.
There is not nearly enough evidence to take a definitive stance for either side.

 

[Luigi The President]

First the Miis, now this.
Sakurai really wants to get the "hey they aren't playable stop asking" into peoples' minds doesn't he?
I mean, Chrom? Get outta here. Ashley? Actually get outta here.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing can't tell

cause DLC doesn't follow rules

I agree btw

 

[Oz37]

"Isn't a hard deconfirmation" is the key there. This fella posted as though they /were/ a hard deconfirmation.

Also I don't know why we need to compare anything it just proves the general concept, that trophies became DLC, could probably also be true for Spirits.

I saw the banter of the Japanese trailer seeming to point that way. Of course, I believe like most others that we simply don't know if being a spirit is a real deconfirmation or not. That's why I said "if".

My thought process at this point is that if Spirits are deconfirms, it feels like we're running lower and lower on predictable DLC characters. I'm honestly having a hard time thinking of first party characters that would be feasible that aren't "deconfirmed."

 

[Will]

There is a possibility that spirits could potentially deconfirm a character as DLC maybe.
There is not nearly enough evidence to take a definitive stance for either side.

BUT THE EVIDENCE CLEARLY STACKED UP LIKE THE GRINCH BOX THEORY YOU'D HAVE TO BE A BRAINLET NOT TO SEE IT!
*sips high IQ tea*

 

[CaptainAmerica]

From the same wiki you referenced:

Fighter Spirits are based on an existing playable character in the game, and cannot be equipped. Rather, they simply exist to allow the players to enjoy the art and descriptions.

I'm enjoying the second half of that statement. I have still yet to see a 'description' of a Spirit, but if we get the same blurbs they would have had on the trophies, then I'm not gonna miss them as much.

 

[Deleted member]

BUT THE EVIDENCE CLEARLY STACKED UP LIKE THE GRINCH BOX THEORY YOU'D HAVE TO BE A BRAINLET NOT TO SEE IT!
*sips high IQ tea*

Only idiots drink tea. True intellectuals cry and drink their own tears.

 

[Pyra]

BUT THE EVIDENCE CLEARLY STACKED UP LIKE THE GRINCH BOX THEORY YOU'D HAVE TO BE A BRAINLET NOT TO SEE IT!
*sips high IQ tea*

this twitter user I saw speculated that it's deconfirmed

we all know that's an ultimate disconfirmation

 

[NintendoKnight]

Hmm

-We are already simulating fighting the character through Spirits. Why would they put them in as DLC, when we can already fight them in a sense?
-Spirits are different from Trophies, so the Mewtwo/Lucas case isn't applicable.

I definitely am team "spirits can be DLC" for the record

Ironically, I've already seen Samus and Daisy as Spirits despite their playability. How does that work then? We just fight them as themselves?

And though I haven't seen it, I'm certain the Piranha Plant is a Spirit. So I agree with the "Spirits can be DLC" as well.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Birkin is the only one who holds a candle.)

Birkin as a fighter would be great and all but there are a couple problems surrounding him.

1. What mutated form would he be in? Obviously that tentacled blob would be his Final Smash but what form would he take as his main one? For me, its either his 3rd and 4th forms.

2. He would likely be called "too scary for Smash".

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'll be surprised if Square spirits show up.

Even ones for Cloud/FF7 beyond the Fighter Spirit he most likely has.

 

[Deleted member]

Remember all those silly lore rules like "dead characters in canon can't be playable"? Yeah, those were fun.

 

[Luigi The President]

Ironically, I've already seen Samus and Daisy as Spirits despite their playability. How does that work then? We just fight them as themselves?

And though I haven't seen it, I'm certain the Piranha Plant is a Spirit. So I agree with the "Spirits can be DLC" as well.

I've already heard about Daisy but Samus is new.

 

[Will]

Are you agreeing or disagreeing can't tell


I agree btw

I was literally saying that I just realized the Spirits concept served the same things as the Miis: didn't get your character? make your character.

 

[staindgrey]

Hmm

-We are already simulating fighting the character through Spirits. Why would they put them in as DLC, when we can already fight them in a sense?
-Spirits are different from Trophies, so the Mewtwo/Lucas case isn't applicable.

I definitely am team "spirits can be DLC" for the record

Just to add to this: Really it's not so much evidence as how this sort of planning generally works.

If they knew all along that DLC would be a thing, then we can assume that the DLC, at least in part if not all of it, was decided or brainstormed early on in development. With that in mind, Sakurai and the people he delegates tasks to likely wouldn't consider the characters they know or think will be playable later to be worth the time or energy of making Spirits for. Because, I mean, what's the point?

As far as the argument of, "they want to throw us off the trail!" the box theory shows they really don't care nearly as much about doing that as we think they do.

As far as the argument of Mewtwo/Lucas, we don't know when they decided to support Smash For with DLC in that development cycle, because Nintendo was still testing the waters with the whole post-launch DLC thing at that point, and Sakurai seems to be firmly against holding off part of the game for later DLC. So if trophies were decided without DLC in mind, Mewtwo and Lucas are obvious candidates since they were cut from past games. The decision to make them DLC could have been as much as three years removed from the decision to make them trophies.

All that said.

These are all educated guesses and reasonable assumptions based on typical game development and Nintendo's history. None of it is fact and all of it can be disproved by the first DLC announcement. We don't know a thing.

 

[Luigi The President]

I was literally saying that I just realized the Spirits concept served the same things as the Miis: didn't get your character? make your character.

Lol Ariga comes to an epiphany

 

[Kingslime304]

When a yellow mouse beats you soo hard that you had to put "REACTION" as the title in your 2nd teaser to gain more views.

Spoiler

 

[Pyra]

I was literally saying that I just realized the Spirits concept served the same things as the Miis: didn't get your character? make your character.

yeah the fighters you fight against are literally called "puppet fighters" and are possessed by the spirits.

i think its fun haha

 

[staindgrey]

Ironically, I've already seen Samus and Daisy as Spirits despite their playability. How does that work then? We just fight them as themselves?

"Fighter Spirits" are not equipped and are there for collecting only. These are based on all the playable characters.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

IntelliHeath Bias Countdown! Which is based on one of my favorite character, Duck Hunt. He only had an easy job where he would laugh at people who failed to kill duck(s) but if you succeed at killing any then he would fetch for you. #SmashBros #SuperSmashBrosUltimate pic.twitter.com/TjNqVvs6xC

— IntelliHeath (@IntelliHeath) November 20, 2018

 

[Graizen]

I was asked about my DLC list
ok

Sora, Agumon, Crash, Steve and Banjo

 

[Pyra]

IntelliHeath Bias Countdown! Which is based on one of my favorite character, Duck Hunt. He only had an easy job where he would laugh at people who failed to kill duck(s) but if you succeed at killing any then he would fetch for you. #SmashBros #SuperSmashBrosUltimate pic.twitter.com/TjNqVvs6xC

— IntelliHeath (@IntelliHeath) November 20, 2018

Mario just kidnaps this dog from the second dimension

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Nemesis is also considerable killed by Jill Valentine.

Doesn't stop him from still being quite popular. And apparently according to MvC:I, Capcom prefer him over Jill.

 

[Luigi The President]

Just to add to this: Really it's not so much evidence as how this sort of planning generally works.

If they knew all along that DLC would be a thing, then we can assume that the DLC, at least in part if not all of it, was decided or brainstormed early on in development. With that in mind, Sakurai and the people he delegates tasks to likely wouldn't consider the characters they know or think will be playable later to be worth the time or energy of making Spirits for. Because, I mean, what's the point?

As far as the argument of, "they want to throw us off the trail!" the box theory shows they really don't care nearly as much about doing that as we think they do.

As far as the argument of Mewtwo/Lucas, we don't know when they decided to support Smash For with DLC in that development cycle, because Nintendo was still testing the waters with the whole post-launch DLC thing at that point, and Sakurai seems to be firmly against holding off part of the game for later DLC. So if trophies were decided without DLC in mind, Mewtwo and Lucas are obvious candidates since they were cut from past games. The decision to make them DLC could have been as much as three years removed from the decision to make them trophies.

All that said.

These are all educated guesses and reasonable assumptions based on typical game development and Nintendo's history. None of it is fact and all of it can be disproved by the first DLC announcement. We don't know a thing.

"was decided or brainstormed early on in development"

I don't think this is entirely true. We found out negotiations JUST ended for DLC.

The argument about Mewtwo seems kinda absurd because Mewtwo was revealed like literally a month after the game came out and was ready as soon as like, March. There was no way they assembled Mewtwo in less than a month, and he already had a trophy as we said.

 

[PeridotGX]

What are your moments you post during the first years on the internet that you regret/cringe about?

Spoiler

I remember making a post in the Angry Joe fourms, ranting about some crossover game on the ps3 because "IT HAD A COUNTDOWN" and how disappointing it is. Felt like now that I ranted to a game I didn't even play because I wanted to.

Miiverse. Thank goodness that's dead.

She is a Spirit.
But Sylux and Crash aren’t.

Why would Sylux be a DLC character again? We already got 2 Metroid characters in the base game.

I know this has probably done plenty of times before, but I’d wanna know what would be y’alls dream DLC? Explain why you like the character and want them too if you feel like it! I’ve gotten too deep on the pessimistic side of how it’ll turn out and I thought of what characters I think would be the perfect DLC if it were catered to me specifically. I also want to see if anyone shares a dream character with me.

(Goomba would’ve been on here before, but I’ve been perfectly satisfied with Piranha Plant)
My 5 picks:
1) Starfy: I have a very nostalgic connection to The Legendary Starfy, I’ve been in love with the underrated character ever since I played the game almost a decade ago. He’s such a cute little starfish, and I crave the day a game is made where he and Kirby work together or fight one another.

2) Geno: It’s not even that I personally love him or want him in, but that so many others have been asking for him for so long that I’d love to see people finally get this character in the game. Fits in right alongside Ridley and K Rool!

3) Skull Kid: Mostly I just want another Zelda Rep, I love The Legend of Zelda and I think getting another fighter other than a triforce wielder would be really cool, and since Majoras Mask is tied for my favorite Zelda with BOTW, Skull Kid is easily one of my top picks

4) Master Chief: During the Wii Era, I switched to the 360 and found a love in the original Halo trilogy, so even though Master Chief has a slim to nothing chance of making it in, he’d be on the same kind of surprise level to me as Cloud, and I’d love that.

5) Commander Shepherd: I love Mass Effect, it’s given me a lot of inspiration for my own sci-fi stories and Commander Shepherd is the best bad *** in the cosmos. Having him in smash would be a dream come true for me, and he has Mass Effect 3 on the Wii U so it IS somewhat feasible.

1. Bandana Dee with Dream Palace
2. Kamek with some Yoshi stage
3. Maxwell with Capital City
4. Grovyle with Wigglytuff's guild
5. Marx with Royal Road

 

[Will]

IntelliHeath Bias Countdown! Which is based on one of my favorite character, Duck Hunt. He only had an easy job where he would laugh at people who failed to kill duck(s) but if you succeed at killing any then he would fetch for you. #SmashBros #SuperSmashBrosUltimate pic.twitter.com/TjNqVvs6xC

— IntelliHeath (@IntelliHeath) November 20, 2018

Man, I forgot how pretty the trailers looked.

 

[staindgrey]

I'm enjoying the second half of that statement. I have still yet to see a 'description' of a Spirit, but if we get the same blurbs they would have had on the trophies, then I'm not gonna miss them as much.

Yeah, that was my first thought too.

Really, it's possible that 2D art could be more fun to browse through than 3D renders, if they all have the same blurbs as past trophies did.

 

[Sysreq]

I'm not sure how I feel about Spirits deconfirming characters, but I think the timeline might matter. For example, tons of characters for Spirits are decided upon and their Spirit battles are planned. DLC time rolls around and Nintendo is like, "Hey we want X Character as DLC." Is Sakurai going to say, "Sorry guys, X is a Spirit. They're a no-go."

 

[Luigi The President]

Miiverse. Thank goodness that's dead.


Why would Sylux be a DLC character again? We already got 2 Metroid characters in the base game.


1. Bandana Dee with Dream Palace
2. Kamek with some Yoshi stage
3. Maxwell with Capital City
4. Grovyle with Wigglytuff's guild
5. Marx with Royal Road

"Why would Sylux be a DLC character again? We already got 2 Metroid characters in the base game."
Corrin

Ya argument is dead

Better points against Sylux than this

 

[staindgrey]

Miiverse. Thank goodness that's dead.


Why would Sylux be a DLC character again? We already got 2 Metroid characters in the base game.

,,& say hi.

Also I liked Miiverse.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think this is entirely true. We found out negotiations JUST ended for DLC.

I wouldn’t be entirely sure on that. “Now” can mean a lot of different things and Sakurai was certainly being a bit vague when he said dlc was NOW finished. Taking leaks into account, minecraft was back in may, and SE in August, which just further muddies the matter.

 

[Luigi The President]

I wouldn’t be entirely sure on that. “Now” can mean a lot of different things and Sakurai was certainly being a bit vague when he said dlc was NOW finished. Taking leaks into account, minecraft was back in may, and SE in August, which just further muddies the matter.

How was "now" vague at all? Don't understand this argument.

May-November seems like an incredibly reasonable timelapse to sort out everything for 5 DLC characters. A bit short, actually.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

,,& say hi.

Also I liked Miiverse.

I really liked Miiverse too. The messages that would pop up were mostly nice and some people would draw cool pictures. I'm gonna miss it a bit.

 

[Zinith]

What are your moments you post during the first years on the internet that you regret/cringe about?

Spoiler

I remember making a post in the Angry Joe fourms, ranting about some crossover game on the ps3 because "IT HAD A COUNTDOWN" and how disappointing it is. Felt like now that I ranted to a game I didn't even play because I wanted to.

One word:

Spoiler

Furaffinity

 

[Deleted member]

How was "now" vague at all? Don't understand this argument.

May-November seems like an incredibly reasonable timelapse to sort out everything for 5 DLC characters. A bit short, actually.

Now just means ‘in the present’. You can derive any implication you want from that. It could just as easily mean dlc was decided a year ago. It could also mean the timeline of reveals had been finalised. I’d certainly say it’s more likely that it means dlc was decided recently, but I don’t think there’s enough evidence for one to be so sure.

 

[Will]

It's funny when people say Smash is a game that only gaming icons should be played in when we have literal advertisements in here.
And Pokemon, that's always a standard quota no matter where you go.

 

[Luigi The President]

It's funny when people say Smash is a game that only gaming icons should be played in when we have literal advertisements in here.
And Pokemon, that's always a standard quota no matter where you go.

The whole "DESERVE IT" argument is soooo ****ing nonsense at this point*


* = when im not using it for characters i like

 

[staindgrey]

"was decided or brainstormed early on in development"

I don't think this is entirely true. We found out negotiations JUST ended for DLC.

The argument about Mewtwo seems kinda absurd because Mewtwo was revealed like literally a month after the game came out and was ready as soon as like, March. There was no way they assembled Mewtwo in less than a month, and he already had a trophy as we said.

The DLC roster was just finalized, but we don't know how long ago it was initialized. My point is that, unlike Smash For where DLC was still an entirely new idea and we don't know when they decided they'd try and do it or how they planned on doing it, we can reasonably assume they knew from the start of Ultimate's development that DLC would be a part of the plan. How in-depth they got with that, we'll never know, and when they floated the ideas for what DLC characters they chose, we also will never know. But the possibility of the DLC roster possibilities being outlined during the final roster decisions (i.e. "I know DLC will be a thing, and unfortunately I can't fit X, Y and Z into the game, so let's plan for these to possibly be DLC") is a safe assumption to be made. Still an assumption, though.

Regarding Mewtwo's reveal, remember that just because the game came out in September 2014 doesn't mean the decisions for what would be in it happened anywhere near then. Trophies could be decided and assigned to teams as early as 2011, significantly before a decision on DLC would need to happen. This could also be the case for Ultimate, but like I said, For and Ultimate are two different beasts as far as DLC goes. Nintendo's confident in DLC now, and has For's sales figures to prove it. We have no idea when For's DLC plans started, but we do know that, unlike For, Ultimate came right out of the gate and told us how many characters there would be and when they were going to come. For just kind of added them later on in spurts. That shows a difference in pre-release planning by a significant gap.

 

[Troykv]

I know this has probably done plenty of times before, but I’d wanna know what would be y’alls dream DLC? Explain why you like the character and want them too if you feel like it! I’ve gotten too deep on the pessimistic side of how it’ll turn out and I thought of what characters I think would be the perfect DLC if it were catered to me specifically. I also want to see if anyone shares a dream character with me.

(Goomba would’ve been on here before, but I’ve been perfectly satisfied with Piranha Plant)
My 5 picks:
1) Starfy: I have a very nostalgic connection to The Legendary Starfy, I’ve been in love with the underrated character ever since I played the game almost a decade ago. He’s such a cute little starfish, and I crave the day a game is made where he and Kirby work together or fight one another.

2) Geno: It’s not even that I personally love him or want him in, but that so many others have been asking for him for so long that I’d love to see people finally get this character in the game. Fits in right alongside Ridley and K Rool!

3) Skull Kid: Mostly I just want another Zelda Rep, I love The Legend of Zelda and I think getting another fighter other than a triforce wielder would be really cool, and since Majoras Mask is tied for my favorite Zelda with BOTW, Skull Kid is easily one of my top picks

4) Master Chief: During the Wii Era, I switched to the 360 and found a love in the original Halo trilogy, so even though Master Chief has a slim to nothing chance of making it in, he’d be on the same kind of surprise level to me as Cloud, and I’d love that.

5) Commander Shepherd: I love Mass Effect, it’s given me a lot of inspiration for my own sci-fi stories and Commander Shepherd is the best bad *** in the cosmos. Having him in smash would be a dream come true for me, and he has Mass Effect 3 on the Wii U so it IS somewhat feasible.

Oh... let's see... Specifically to me? I only need one character, but I'll try to put some other ideas I have in mind right now

1) Micaiah: My most wanted character; I have weird story with her, but overall I ended up loving her style and capabilities... the funny thing about that story is the fact I started to know about her because I was checking the potential of Fire Emblem Characters in Smash; and she ended up clicking with me since then.

2) Bandana Dee: Easy pick; popular characters; caters to me, caters to everyone; the spear is a great weapon; and the little Dee is such an adorable orb <3

3) Reimu Hakurei: I like Touhou; and I think it has great potential to create some of the weirdest and funniest gameplay experiences ever xD

4) Altria: I ended up developing a great love for the Fate Lore recently after playing a lot FGO and seeing the Urubutcher's story; I'm not sure how Seiba would work in Smash; but the simply idea of seeing this kind of content in Smash is so incredible xD

5) Crash Bandicoot: My childhood pick for childhood reasons.