Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Starcutter]

I still think a Xenoblade 2 character is guaranteed.

If it's not the base roster, it'll be DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd love to have Spyro in Smash, but too bad he unfortunately never took off in Japan like Crash did. We don't even know if the remake is getting released there, and the vast majority of Spyro and Skylanders games haven't been localized for Japan.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

It should be noted that development for XC2 began in July 2014--meaning the story, characters, world, and game mechanics weren't decided right from the get-go. By the time the Smash 6 design plan was finalized (assuming it was decided sometime in 2016), Sakurai may have felt that there wasn't enough concrete ideas to draw from.

I mean that would be about 2 years of development time. Not to mention the fact that it was able to release in 2017 implies that it had to have a lot done when it was shown off in the beginning of 2017. They had to have at least all the core concept completely established in 2016.

 

[Starcutter]

I'd love to have Spyro in Smash, but too bad he unfortunately never took off in Japan like Crash did. We don't even know if the remake is getting released there, and the vast majority of Spyro and Skylanders games haven't been localized for Japan.

Honestly, that's surprising, Spyro just seems something that would hit in Japan. I hope Spyro Reignited gets a Japanese release.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

I never played any XB game, so I didn't know. Is it worth playing?

Absolutely. It's the most newcomer-friendly game in the series.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Yeah, it's too bad.

Spoiler: Those missiles, though...

I wouldn't mind seeing more dragons, though. Or draconic in some way.

I've said before that Tiki would make a cool Fire Emblem character should they choose to go a different route with that franchise. Not that it'll necessarily happen, but if Corrin were to not return, Tiki would be a cool (and more Dragonlike) character to use Dragonstones in smash.

 

[Pacack]

I still think a Xenoblade 2 character is guaranteed.

If it's not the base roster, it'll be DLC.

Personally I'd argue that both Rex and Springman are going to be DLC

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'd love to have Spyro in Smash, but too bad he unfortunately never took off in Japan like Crash did. We don't even know if the remake is getting released there, and the vast majority of Spyro and Skylanders games haven't been localized for Japan.

They actually ruined Spyro's gameplay for the Japanese version by zooming out the camera and making his charge the same speed as his walk.

No wonder it tanked.

 

[Pacack]

I've said before that Tiki would make a cool Fire Emblem character should they choose to go a different route with that franchise. Not that it'll necessarily happen, but if Corrin were to not return, Tiki would be a cool (and more Dragonlike) character to use Dragonstones in smash.

I'm just saying.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

They actually ruined Spyro's gameplay for the Japanese version by zooming out the camera and making his charge the same speed as his walk.

No wonder it tanked.

Wow that sounds terrible. Why on earth would they think that's a good idea? I really hope Reignited does him more justice in Japan's eye, not even considering Smash. Spyro is sooo fun, it makes me so sad to find that the game was pretty ruined for others.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Honestly, that's surprising, Spyro just seems something that would hit in Japan. I hope Spyro Reignited gets a Japanese release.

That's because the Japanese releases of Spyro 1 and Spyro 2 are pretty bad. For some reason they royally screwed up the camera system in both games, along with other weird changes that overall make the games play worse. They knew they made a mistake, since the "director's cut" of the former actually has an option that reverts back to the USA version if you've 100% the game.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'm just saying.

Not gonna lie, her Warriors dragon did not look the way I expected it to. I was expecting something much more like her Fire Emblem Heroes dragon.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Yeah, it's too bad.

Spoiler: Those missiles, though...

I wouldn't mind seeing more dragons, though. Or draconic in some way.

HOW did you know that was my favourite Digimon!?

I LOVE Purple Dragonmon.

 

[Arcanir]

But that doesn't mean he completely dismisses games that are close to the smash release either. Mario kart 8 came out after 3d world and is still got a stage. Wooly World wasn't out yet and it still got a stage. And then there is Greninja's existence.

Everything hinges on what exactly Sakurai's plans were. If he just wanted a new Xenoblade character then Rex is still possible.

I'm not arguing there isn't a possibility, but I do think it's quite offbase to say "well, it was in development for this long, so we must get a lot of content in Smash and saying otherwise is a fallacy" with certainty when we are in a speculative part of pre-release as a whole and there are many examples to the contrary. We can't pretend those can't be applicable to XC2's case, particularly in terms of characters since the only example that we have that isn't a clone (since I doubt anyone wants Rex/Pyra to be a clone) is Greninja, who got in based on having a slot set aside in the drafting phases of the project and there's no certainty that Xenoblade will get the same luxury.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What do you think about the universes with potential to get new characters?

I think it was kind of silly for people to think there were going to be Zelda, Donkey Kong, or Kirby newcomers in Smash for Wii U.

All of these universes received newcomers in Brawl and Super Mario was left dry. By the time Smash for Wii U/3DS started development, the most recent DK game was Donkey Kong Country Returns, where the main stars were Donkey & Diddy. Making them sufficient as the sole representatives for SSB4.

Zelda was another foolish hope. Mario & Pokemon were both shown to have Five newcomers. Zelda already had five as well as a newcomer in the previous game.

The difference between then and now, however, is hopeful. Mario and Pokemon will likely receive at least one newcomer, so it's very possible that Sakurai will look at Zelda as well, with the interest in their being a fair share on the select screen as there was in Brawl and Smash 4.

Things have changed for Donkey Kong as well, with the popularity of Tropical Freeze which featured prominent roles for DK characters such as Cranky, Funky, and Dixie, unlike DKC Returns.

As for what characters will get in, I think Cranky Kong is the safest bet for DK along with Dixie Kong as an unlockable character.

For Zelda, I think they are gonna go with Toon Zelda and Tetra. People may say "Well, that's a lot of Zeldas". However it's important to note that Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are what make up the most notable characters in the series. Toon Zelda may very well end up being the spirit/phantom version and Tetra on the other hand bares no resemblance to Zelda other than being an incarnation of her and not even the same one as we have now.

I believe Toon Zelda and Tetra are the next most important /iconic characters of the overall series as well as the two to bring the most potential.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Prior to Melee, we didn’t know the series would continue.
Prior to Melee, we didn’t know we would get such an increase in the roster
Prior to Melee; we didn’t know clones would be included.
Prior to Melee, we didn’t know if certain characters would return.
Prior to Melee, we didn’t know a largely unknown series outside of Japan would be included.
Prior to Brawl, we didn’t know the series would continue.
Prior to Brawl, we didn’t know 3rd party characters would be included.
Prior to Brawl, we didn’t know if certain characters would be included.
Prior to Brawl, we didn’t know that characters would be cut.
Prior to Brawl, we didn’t know that a character from a Mature franchise could be included in the roster.
Prior to Smash 4, we didn’t know that the series would continue.
Prior to Smash 4, we didn’t know if certain characters would return.
Prior to Smash 4, we didn’t know that characters that were deemed “unusable in a fighting game” previously could be included later.
Prior you Smash 4, we didn’t know that a previous Assist Trophy could be included as a playable character
Prior to Smash 4, we didn’t know if 3rd party characters would return.
Prior to Smash 4, we didn’t know that we could get more than 2 3rd party characters.
Prior to Smash 4, we didn’t know that different characters could serve as alternate costumes.
Prior to Smash 4, we didn’t know a little represented franchise that appeared in Melee could see a huge increase in roster slots.
Prior to Smash 4, we didn’t know that DLC is possible in Smash.
Prior to Smash 4, we didn’t know that a company could have more than one 3rd party representative.
Prior to Smash 4, we didn’t know that a character from a Mature franchise which focuses on demonic/sexual overtones could be included.
Prior to Smash 4, we didn’t know that a character that had little to no representation on a Nintendo system from a franchise whose flagship games are usually on rival systems could possibly be included.

Now going into this new era of Smash 5, there are tons of unknowns that we don’t know about. Each game redefines the series and greatly affects on how we speculate future games. Maybe people laughed at the idea of Cloud, Ryu, Bayonetta, and Snake getting in. Many thought Lucario, Toon Link, ROB, and Ike would be cut. Others thought that we would be getting no more than 2 3rd party characters. Even now, there are things that people laugh at or seem impossible going into this new Smash. I think that’s silly since there’s really nothing that we know until the game comes out and that will alter future speculation years down the road. That being said....


Son Goku for Smash!

 

[Pakky]

can we just say how CLEAN the Spyro Reignited design for Spyro is?

Spoiler

It's just... I never even played Spyro as a kid but I LOVE this

I know you don't know the despair I felt in the Skylanders days, jeez thank goodness for that square snout, look at it! Lovely.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I have one problem with this Spyro remake.

What's up with Sparx's real bug legs?

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Honestly. I've always been a Team Crash over Team Spyro.

So to me, Crash will always be my favourite of the two, so, of course Crash will be the one I want.
I just don't ge the appeal of Spyro, but that does not mean that I do not like him at all.

 

[Danpal65]

I have one problem with this Spyro remake.

What's up with Sparx's real bug legs?

Looks super derpy in the face as well.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Honestly. I've always been a Team Crash over Team Spyro.

So to me, Crash will always be my favourite of the two, so, of course Crash will be the one I want.
I just don't ge the appeal of Spyro, but that does not mean that I do not like him at all.

To me, at least, the appeal of Spyro is really as simple as getting to play a cute little dragon. The game were pretty fun overall, and came around in that era that many great 3D platformers were appearing. But really, how often did you get to be the dragon? Especially back then. Most games were more focused on slaying the dragons.

 

[Starcutter]

What do you think about the universes with potential to get new characters?

I think it was kind of silly for people to think there were going to be Zelda, Donkey Kong, or Kirby newcomers in Smash for Wii U.

All of these universes received newcomers in Brawl and Super Mario was left dry. By the time Smash for Wii U/3DS started development, the most recent DK game was Donkey Kong Country Returns, where the main stars were Donkey & Diddy. Making them sufficient as the sole representatives for SSB4.

Zelda was another foolish hope. Mario & Pokemon were both shown to have Five newcomers. Zelda already had five as well as a newcomer in the previous game.

The difference between then and now, however, is hopeful. Mario and Pokemon will likely receive at least one newcomer, so it's very possible that Sakurai will look at Zelda as well, with the interest in their being a fair share on the select screen as there was in Brawl and Smash 4.

Things have changed for Donkey Kong as well, with the popularity of Tropical Freeze which featured prominent roles for DK characters such as Cranky, Funky, and Dixie, unlike DKC Returns.

As for what characters will get in, I think Cranky Kong is the safest bet for DK along with Dixie Kong as an unlockable character.

For Zelda, I think they are gonna go with Toon Zelda and Tetra. People may say "Well, that's a lot of Zeldas". However it's important to note that Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are what make up the most notable characters in the series. Toon Zelda may very well end up being the spirit/phantom version and Tetra on the other hand bares no resemblance to Zelda other than being an incarnation of her and not even the same one as we have now.

I believe Toon Zelda and Tetra are the next most important /iconic characters of the overall series as well as the two to bring the most potential.

I think a lot of people, myself included, don't really see Toon Link as much of a newcomer, he's basically tweaked young link. If you take that into account, Zelda hasn't had a newcomer since Melee.

I also believe that Cranky Kong is far from likely. All he has going for him is Tropical Freeze. Dixie has that as well as her starring in 2 other DKC games as more of a lead that she was in Tropical Freeze. I also think Sakurai might have taken K Rool's popularity into consideration, especially if you look at the K Rool Mii costume.

As for which Zelda newcomers, I could see someone from Breath of the Wild, or Tingle. I'd love to see Tetra but I think the WW style of games are slowly dying out. Plus, the last "Toon" Zelda game was Tri-Force Heroes, and I don't think Toon Zelda (or Tetra) was even IN that one.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

I do hate the Spyro's Skylanders design, but I kinda wonder if it's colour scheme would look nice on his classic design

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I think a lot of people, myself included, don't really see Toon Link as much of a newcomer, he's basically tweaked young link. If you take that into account, Zelda hasn't had a newcomer since Melee.

I also believe that Cranky Kong is far from likely. All he has going for him is Tropical Freeze. Dixie has that as well as her starring in 2 other DKC games as more of a lead that she was in Tropical Freeze. I also think Sakurai might have taken K Rool's popularity into consideration, especially if you look at the K Rool Mii costume.

As for which Zelda newcomers, I could see someone from Breath of the Wild, or Tingle. I'd love to see Tetra but I think the WW style of games are slowly dying out. Plus, the last "Toon" Zelda game was Tri-Force Heroes, and I don't think Toon Zelda (or Tetra) was even IN that one.

Oh, Toon Zelda appeared all right. As... a Link costume...

 

[Danpal65]

Oh, Toon Zelda appeared all right. As... a Link costume...

So Toon Zelda is a Toon Link clone confirmed?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Oh, Toon Zelda appeared all right. As... a Link costume...

On that topic, we need more alt costumes outside of mii Fighters.

We didn't get Outset Toon Link twice in a row and that makes me sad.

 

[Wyoming]

Prior to Melee; we didn’t know clones would be included.

Good logical and precise post. I will proceed to nitpick one of your points to prove you wrong!!!

We know everything that will happen for Smash 5. Post debunked, disconfirmed, discarded. Get dunked on, bro.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

I mean that would be about 2 years of development time. Not to mention the fact that it was able to release in 2017 implies that it had to have a lot done when it was shown off in the beginning of 2017. They had to have at least all the core concept completely established in 2016.

Very true. We can only make assumptions based on the very limited information we have. Time will tell.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I haven't really seen anybody discussing Alolan Forms. Of course some will be Pokeballs, but is there any chance one could be playable?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

On that topic, we need more alt costumes outside of mii Fighters.

We didn't get Outset Toon Link twice in a row and that makes me sad.

This question also makes me wonder what exactly is going to happen with costumes/pallets in this game. A highly requested feature I recall seeing for Smash 4 was more actual costumes, even if they came as paid dlc. Does anyone think its possible that we get a lot more detailed costumes this time around? Perhaps instead of making clone characters, they make multiple full costume changes for pre-existing characters?

I like clones, but I'd also gladly welcome some fancy new threads for my characters. That's what makes Smash 4 mods so fun.

 

[Danpal65]

I haven't really seen anybody discussing Alolan Forms. Of course some will be Pokeballs, but is there any chance one could be playable?

I would say no myself. They were a cool addition to Sun and Moon, but they are not really distinct enough to warrant a new character. I could see Pikachu getting an Alolan Raichu colouring in conjunction with the corresponding hat for the game though.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think a lot of people, myself included, don't really see Toon Link as much of a newcomer, he's basically tweaked young link. If you take that into account, Zelda hasn't had a newcomer since Melee.

I also believe that Cranky Kong is far from likely. All he has going for him is Tropical Freeze.

All he has going for him is Tropical Freeze?! Cranky Kong is omnipresent throughout history of Donkey Kong Country. He's the third most integrated Kong of the whole series. What are you talking about?!

Don't you usually prop up Waddle Dee because he was playable in Return to Dreamland? Why is it always about whoever was playable first with you?

Dixie has that as well as her starring in 2 other DKC games as more of a lead that she was in Tropical Freeze. I also think Sakurai might have taken K Rool's popularity into consideration, especially if you look at the K Rool Mii costume.

That's less going for him than Cranky. I do believe the ballot is an indication that King K. Rool could be the newcomer, but I don't think everyone who was a Mii costume is now likely to be a newcomer.

But, you think Cranky Kong only has Tropical Freeze going for him? What has King K. Rool had going for him the past ten years?

As for which Zelda newcomers, I could see someone from Breath of the Wild

So Cranky Kong only has Tropical Freeze going for him, but now you're saying a one off character from Breath of The Wild is the best bet?

There is nobody from Breath of The Wild. We're already getting BOTW versions of Link & Zelda and likely Sheik. The only new characters are the Champions. And you can't have just one of them any more than having one Koopaling. Even if there was only one champion, it would be just as ridiculous as having Midna or Ghirahim.

You're all over the map. First you're saying the best bet is a character who's been absent for ten years and then you're saying the best bet is whomever appeared in the newest game.

It's also funny that you're talking about how "Well, when was the last Toon game?". Well, it wasn't as long ago as the last King K. Rool game. Both Tetra and Cranky have a one-up on King K. Rool.

You're entire "refutation" here just collapses like a Jenga tower.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Things are getting a little too heated. Let's all take a deep breath and discuss things a bit more civilly and without pointless aggression. There's no real reason to argue someone into submission. It doesn't help any arguments being made, and it only makes things harder to be civil.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

All he has going for him is Tropical Freeze?! Cranky Kong is omnipresent throughout history of Donkey Kong Country. He's the third most integrated Kong of the whole series. What are you talking about?!

Don't you usually prop up Waddle Dee because he was playable in Return to Dreamland? Why is it always about whoever was playable first with you?


That's less going for him than Cranky. I do believe the ballot is an indication that King K. Rool could be the newcomer, but I don't think everyone who was a Mii costume is now likely to be a newcomer.

But, you think Cranky Kong only has Tropical Freeze going for him? What has King K. Rool had going for him the past ten years?


So Cranky Kong only has Tropical Freeze going for him, but now you're saying a one off character from Breath of The Wild is the best bet?

There is nobody from Breath of The Wild. We're already getting BOTW versions of Link & Zelda and likely Sheik. The only new characters are the Champions. And you can't have just one of them any more than having one Koopaling. Even if there was only one champion, it would be just as ridiculous as having Midna or Ghirahim.

You're all over the map. First you're saying the best bet is a character who's been absent for ten years and then you're saying the best bet is whomever appeared in the newest game.

Well to be fair, Cranky has never been more than a grumpy old guy with dialogue til Tropical Freeze. Just a supporting character. K. Rool was a multi-occurrence boss, and the main boss of the entire franchise for a while.
You can say the champions are not possible all you want, but Breath of the Wild was a bigger hit than Skyward Sword, and Twilight Princess happened way before Smash 4. I think the Champions at least have better timing on their side. Also, Zelda fans have been clamoring for a full blown new character since Brawl. Maybe that finally changes.

EDIT: Deleted last sentence bc I don't want to face the wrath of the mods, not that it was overly aggressive, but no need to add fuel to the fire.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well to be fair, Cranky has never been more than a grumpy old guy with dialogue til Tropical Freeze.

Oh. Okay. "And Zelda was nothing more than a damsel that cried for help." You see how easy it is to demean any character? "R.O.B.'s just a plastic toy that collects dust. And all Rosalina does in Super Mario Galaxy is just stand there. And all Palutena does is give you moral support."

I'm not being aggressive here. I'm just demonstrating why you're making a horrible argument. And of course you're gonna say "Well, those characters aren't the same". No two characters in the Nintendo universe are exactly the same. These are "analogies".

Things are getting a little too heated. Let's all take a deep breath and discuss things a bit more civilly and without pointless aggression. There's no real reason to argue someone into submission. It doesn't help any arguments being made, and it only makes things harder to be civil.

I apologize. I've just had to explain the same things one too many times. Not trying to be mean.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Oh. Okay. "And Zelda was nothing more than a damsel that cried for help." You see how easy it is to demean any character? "R.O.B.'s just a plastic toy that collects dust. And all Rosalina does in Super Mario Galaxy is just stand there. And all Palutena does is give you moral support."

I'm not being aggressive here. I'm just demonstrating why you're making a horrible argument. And of course you're gonna say "Well, those characters aren't the same". No two characters in the Nintendo universe are exactly the same. These are "analogies".

This was still pretty aggressive, and I'm not trying to compare Cranky to another character. I was speaking about Cranky himself, pointing out that he has literally just been a support character since he was in the game up until Tropical Freeze. To compare him to another character, Dixie and K. Rool are both valid characters to bring up here. Dixie was co-main in one game, the lead in another. She also appears in Tropical Freeze at the same level as Cranky. And now with K. Rool, as I said in my previous post, was the main boss of the entire franchise for a long time. I'm not saying nor did I ever say Cranky isn't happening, I'm just trying to add to the discussion and trying to point out why he may not be as likely as another comparable character from the same region of Nintendo.

 

[Pakky]

Movie trailer on the 9th probably the Zeraora guy and or the 8th gen eveevee or both?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just a quick reminder than media-only posts with no relevant text are considered spam. Please try to add more.

 

[Pakky]

Just a quick reminder than media-only posts with no relevant text are considered spam. Please try to add more.

Right, my bad fixed it.

 

[Danpal65]

Movie trailer on the 9th probably the Zeraora guy and or the 8th gen evee.

Well that's nice to see. I guess Verlisify is not unfairly seen to be as toxic in this community.

It will be interesting what the reveal is, whether it be a Gen 8 mon or Zeraora. Whether that has much baring on Smash I think it is hard to tell at this stage. I feel that any new Pokémon newcomers will be some of the hardest to call for this game.