Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

As much as I'd love a RH rep it already missed its chance the last two Smash go arounds, so what would exactly make things different this time?

Rhythm Heaven Megamix? The fact that it's still an extremely well selling IP to this day? How is an IP not being in the last game supposed to be an argument against it being in this game? That's like saying Punch-Out missed its chance when it was absent from Melee and Brawl and hasn't had a game in over five years since Super Smash Bros 4 was released.

I mean again a newer series like Splatoon got in before RH despite RH being around for more than a decade longer.

How did Splatoon get in OVER Rhythm Heaven? Is that like how Wii Fit got in over Punch-Out??? Like what are you talking about?

As I said above its because of the way Nintendo is pushing the series. They want Splatoon in everything and want it to succeed.

Wow. You really have a grasp on what Nintendo and Sakurai want. You're so wise. You realize Splatoon has been around for three years, right? This is like saying Nintendo would want Wii Fit Trainer in Brawl before they would want Olimar. Like they are the ones who call the shots for the Smash roster. The game is a celebration of Nintendo's history. Not an advertisement for its future.

They barely talk about RH and couldn't even give its last game a physical release in the US.

Oh, no! No PHYSICAL release? Well, that's the nail in the coffin right there.

 

[Danpal65]

I would vastly prefer an XBC2 character, but if we got a character from X, I would prefer it to be Elma, considering she is literally the only character from that game I can remember.

What do you mean? Cross is such a memorable and well fleshed out character

 

[Donald "JoJo" Trump]

The question is: If Pyra/Rex is added, will they be a pair, or solo characters?

 

[Antimatter042]

Having watched the Source Gaming discussion on the project plan, I think the plan's timing might decrease the chances of Spring Man, but Rex and Pyra are less affected by it. XC2 was conceptualised in July 2014, before even Japan got Xenoblade X, and per the Special Edition's artbook, most of the completed main character concept art seems to have been signed off mid-2016. That's within a reasonable timeframe for Sakurai to have approached Monolith Soft about using Xenoblade content in the game, for him to be introduced to concept art before the project plan's likely completion (which I think is likely a few months later than the February that Source Gaming propose). Spring Man's inclusion is very dependent on the nature of ARMS' development and whether full character concept art was available, but given how datamining for post-launch fighters yielded very generic naming conventions, I'd say it's likely that ARMS was only in its conceptual stage when Sakurai completed the project plan.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, we don't know if we'll even get a RH character this time around. We may get an ARMS character but not a RH character. We know little information. We don't even know who the RH character that was considered, which also means we don't know why they were removed before getting far into development. We never saw signs of playable data beyond a series symbol. Could've been similar to Chrom, briefly considered, but dropped. Could've had work done, but 3DS issues made the character work poorly.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

What do you mean? Cross is such a memorable and well fleshed out character

Yup! They're so full of life.

 

[Polan]

Yup! They're so full of life.

Oh god. kill it with fire.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Honestly, we don't know if we'll even get a RH character this time around. We may get an ARMS character but not a RH character. We know little information. We don't even know who the RH character that was considered, which also means we don't know why they were removed before getting far into development. We never saw signs of playable data beyond a series symbol. Could've been similar to Chrom, briefly considered, but dropped. Could've had work done, but 3DS issues made the character work poorly.

This is true. Hopefully during the game's developement we might hear some of the developement process for Wii U and 3DS, hopefully something about RH in Smash would come out eventually.

I still hold hopes that there will be something RH related. I just hope RH does not die out like Golden Sun when it comes to Smash, because in Smash 4 GS got even less content than RH in general. (point is, I do not want neither to die out completley.)

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yup! They're so full of life.

Now all she needs is the clown paint and pink hair, and Cross will be good to go.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Yup! They're so full of life.

Wow, Noctis in Tekken 7, how cool.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

The question is: If Pyra/Rex is added, will they be a pair, or solo characters?

They'd have to be a pair. It's the whole point of the game lol

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I kinda have to wonder if that's potentially a theme of this Smash, considering there's not as much time between titles as say, Melee to Brawl or Brawl to Wii U. Not to be overly optimistic but again, maybe the plan was to add some new stuff to this game and more or less present as Smash Bros 6?

Not that ARMS has to fill the niche, but each Smash game adds a few new IP into the mix. So far we've got Inklings, but a lot of other newcomers we discuss are from veteran series. ARMS fits this perfectly and has been significantly pushed by Nintendo, and might actually benefit from having somebody in Smash.

But again, timing might not have worked out. There's just something off about this game though...I can't quite put my finger on it. It just feels different. I get Smash Wii U came out 4 years ago, but it's not the years between release date, but the dev time. If Sakurai finished Wii U in 2016 and didn't even start until I think Summer of 2016? ARMS still had awhile to be officially revealed, but that doesn't mean Sakurai didn't know about it.

It will be an interesting 6 months for sure. I've got a feeling we're going to learn a lot from E3 this year.

Interesting thoughts. I suppose this could be the game to focus more on Greninja-type characters than before

It will definitely be an interesting speculation period.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

This is a good discussion video...I'd like to know people's thoughts on this. Discussion by @PushDustIn and NantenJex

So a couple things I want to say. I'm not saying Rex is 100% going to be in or Elma is 100% not going to be in. But just few points against there belief that Rex's chance is basically null for the base roster.

1. The concept of someone being dated. This is an interesting point they bring up about when the fire emblem character was decided. About how they could feel dated to some people especially now with Fire emblem fates out. Well Elma would be dated by the time smash 5 came out. And it is entirely possible Sakurai would've known this. So the question would then become if he cares or not.

2. Putting down "new Xenoblade character" wouldn't have been a gamble I feel. They make it sound like in the discussion that if Sakurai put down "new xenoblade character" then he would be taking a risk on wheather or not the new hero would rotate. I disagree with that for two reasons. One, we know Sakurai can change those plans like that with how he replaced Chrom with Robin after not figuring out a moveset for Chrom. And two, if he wasn't happy with how Rex was during the early phases, then he could've just used Elma instead. That may sound like more help for Elma, but my ultimate point here is that I don't see why Sakurai couldn't have at least considered Rex.

3. The first trailer of Xenoblade 2 wasn't just sketches. We saw cutscenes and exploration gameplay. The reason people were doubting the release date was more so how X got delayed a bunch more than how it looked at the time though that was still probably a factor too some. But that is all to say that there was actually a lot of work that was already in the game. So it is entirely possible they had the blade system for Sakurai to see.


Now with all that said, Rex probably has a better chance as DLC then he does in the base game, but I feel like all of this is something to at least consider.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Sadly, you can't make everyone happy, and since Bowser Jr. is the default palette, he'd be the one gifted with the recolors.

By giving both Jr. and each Koopaling one alt you can please people who want to both play as Jr., or Larry, or Lemmy etc. It's better than just pleasing 2 people who want to both be Jr..

If more than 2 people want to be the same character, well hopefully you don't come to that point.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Worth noting that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has been in the planning phase since July 2014. Between the planning phase and the release date, that's at least a 3 year and 5 month gap. Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo Switch has been in development since 2016 during the middle of development for Xenoblade Chronicles 2. So any argument that the development team behind Super Smash Bros. were unaware of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a fallacy.

Also consider that the development team tends to get foresight on projects in development for possible new content. It's how we got playable characters like Greninja and Roy.

 

[Pakky]

So with the concept of characters being dated being brought into the discussion and Pokemon being more or less a sure thing.

Why does it seem unlikely that a gen 8 starter will be in the game? I mean this isn't just a regular installment this is the first traditional console Pokemon game. Which is a HUGE deal, a historical deal!

 

[RandomAce]

I do have to agree that the video by Source Gaming made it seem that Rex and Pyra are impossible, it’s very possible that both Elma and Rex/Pyra were considered during Smash 5’s development but it is pointing more towards Elma seeing how Sakurai bought a Mech with a gun that seems to match the mechs found in Xenoblade X and the gun could be used to reference Elma’s gun blades in the game, that and along with Xenoblade X’s timing.

One thing I also want to point out is that the Xenoblade series seems to be going in a weird direction where it is divided in two sub series: One being the story driven ones with rotating casts (XC1 and XC2) and the XCX series which seems to be doing it’s own thing and keep its cast consistent with a possible sequel coming up. So it my be possible we can get both characters base roster or DLC.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Yeah the estimated start of this game's development doesn't really hinder Rex & Pyra's chances IMO. Still itching for some new info, It would really help with this speculation where we have barely anything like possibly assets being reused.

 

[Starcutter]

Just saw the Spyro Reignited trailer.


.....I want Spyro in Smash now.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Just saw the Spyro Reignited trailer.


.....I want Spyro in Smash now.

I remember bringing him up during Smash 4 speculation. He still seems completely impossible right now, but maybe DLC later. Give us a purple dragon, Sakurai.

I should make a signature banner titled "Something Purple for Smash Switch!" with Ridley, Spyro, and Waluigi in it.

 

[Starcutter]

Well, Spyro Reignited would have to come out on Switch first before that.

If it does get a switch release (seems likely), his might be the first Spyro game I ever get.


Unless you count Crash Purple.

Nobody counts Crash Purple.

 

[Danpal65]

I remember bringing him up during Smash 4 speculation. He still seems completely impossible right now, but maybe DLC later. Give us a purple dragon, Sakurai.

I should make a signature banner titled "Something Purple for Smash Switch!" with Ridley, Spyro, and Waluigi in it.

*Another purple dragon.

We need to see this in this Smash game (credit to Bluexorcist93).

 

[Arcanir]

Worth noting that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has been in the planning phase since July 2014. Between the planning phase and the release date, that's at least a 3 year and 5 month gap. Super Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo Switch has been in development since 2016 during the middle of development for Xenoblade Chronicles 2. So any argument that the development team behind Super Smash Bros. were unaware of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a fallacy.

Considering that the development team tends to get foresight on future projects for possible new content, there's no excuse. It's how we got characters like Greninja and Roy to begin with.

That's kind of a fallacy in and of itself since you're making a few assumptions based on limited information and denying others who are similarly speculating off of the information we have at hand.

Sakurai does get access to early information, but he's not an all knowing wizard that knows every single thing that goes on. Metroid Prime 3 for instance was in development at least before E3 2005 (where it was officially shown off mind you, so it's not like it was hidden from view), at least around when Brawl started, and was delayed multiple times. Yet to say that the Brawl content of that game being limited would honestly be generous. Games like Mario Galaxy, Mario 3D World, Pikmin 1, Tropical Freeze, Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, and the like are also in the same boat, being in development at least alongside or even before their respective Smash games were released, but only getting functionally scraps when everything was said and done.

We can't expect the man to know everything as some things are just not going to be shared with him. He himself even said there are some things he wished he knew about so that he could incorporate them into his games (Marth's SD design is one such example), so sometimes even he can't cover everything that multiple Nintendo companies are working on.

 

[FlareHabanero]

If Rex and Pyra/Mythra are omitted, it will be for one sole reason.

Technical problems.

Granted since the development team now is developing for a single platform instead of multiple pieces of hardware with very different specs like with the Wii U and 3DS, it means that the same situation of weaker hardware gimping the stronger one won't happen. But at the same time, trying to incorporate a character that is effectively two in one still runs the risk of being too complicated to implement.

 

[Pakky]

Just saw the Spyro Reignited trailer.


.....I want Spyro in Smash now.

Me too, because I was a Spyro kid growing up.

Also now I have no use for a PS4, thank you Nintendo!

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

*Another purple dragon.

We need to see this in this Smash game (credit to Bluexorcist93).

Spyro would win in the Smash world because he's smaller and faster. Ridley's only hope would be the return of rage.

 

[Pakky]

*Another purple dragon.

We need to see this in this Smash game (credit to Bluexorcist93).

Yes please, I want him to fight his grandad!

 

[Crap-Zapper]

There is only one Purple Dragon I really support... but he is said to be too big...

 

[Danpal65]

Spyro would win in the Smash world because he's smaller and faster. Ridley's only hope would be the return of rage.

Ridley can actually fly though, so his recovery would be a lot better .

This would honestly be a pretty fun match up though. Charizard would have to step in and ref the fight.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Ridley can actually fly though, so his recovery would be a lot better .

This would honestly be a pretty fun match up though. Charizard would have to step in and ref the fight.

And luckily Sakurai already prepared him for the event with the Ridleyzard skin

 

[Pakky]

Yes Spyro headbutt that grandad!

 

[Danpal65]

And luckily Sakurai already prepared him for the event with the Ridleyzard skin

OMG. We have purple Yoshi too. We got a theme team goin' on here boiz!

 

[RandomAce]

So with the concept of characters being dated being brought into the discussion and Pokemon being more or less a sure thing.

Why does it seem unlikely that a gen 8 starter will be in the game? I mean this isn't just a regular installment this is the first traditional console Pokemon game. Which is a HUGE deal, a historical deal!

That is mostly because Gen 7 wasn’t even out by the time the Smash 5 was ending it’s project plan, so it’s most likely that Sakurai picked a Gen 7 Pokémon for this game.So Sakurai wouldn’t have known that a Gen 8 Pokémon game was being developed after E3 well in Smash’s development. We don’t even know anything about Pokémon switch yet which lessens the chance of a Gen 8 Pokémon coming in the base roster.

There is always DLC though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There is only one Purple Dragon I really support... but he is said to be too big...

Yeah, it's too bad.

Spoiler: Those missiles, though...

I wouldn't mind seeing more dragons, though. Or draconic in some way.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

That's kind of a fallacy in and of itself since you're making a few assumptions based on limited information and denying others who are similarly speculating off of the information we have at hand.

Sakurai does get access to early information, but he's not an all knowing wizard that knows every single thing that goes on. Metroid Prime 3 for instance was in development at least before E3 2005 (where it was officially shown off mind you, so it's not like it was hidden from view), at least around when Brawl started, and was delayed multiple times. Yet to say that the Brawl content of that game being limited would honestly be generous. Games like Mario Galaxy, Mario 3D World, Pikmin 1, Tropical Freeze, Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, and the like are also in the same boat, being in development at least alongside or even before their respective Smash games were released, but only getting functionally scraps when everything was said and done.

We can't expect the man to know everything as some things are just not going to be shared with him. He himself even said there are some things he wished he knew about so that he could incorporate them into his games (Marth's SD design is one such example), so sometimes even he can't cover everything that multiple Nintendo companies are working on.

But that doesn't mean he completely dismisses games that are close to the smash release either. Mario kart 8 came out after 3d world and is still got a stage. Wooly World wasn't out yet and it still got a stage. And then there is Greninja's existence.

Everything hinges on what exactly Sakurai's plans were. If he just wanted a new Xenoblade character then Rex is still possible.

 

[Wyoming]

Made an entire special moveset and series representation of Ace Attorney in the Phoenix Wright thread. Never truly tried this kind of thing before, but if a series deserves that time and effort into making this, it is this one.

 

[Starcutter]

can we just say how CLEAN the Spyro Reignited design for Spyro is?

Spoiler

It's just... I never even played Spyro as a kid but I LOVE this

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Worth noting that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has been in the planning phase since July 2014. Between the planning phase and the release date, that's at least a 3 year and 5 month gap. Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo Switch has been in development since 2016 during the middle of development for Xenoblade Chronicles 2. So any argument that the development team behind Super Smash Bros. were unaware of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a fallacy.

Also consider that the development team tends to get foresight on projects in development for possible new content. It's how we got playable characters like Greninja and Roy.

It should also be noted that development for XC2 began in July 2014--meaning the story, characters, world, and game mechanics weren't decided right from the get-go. By the time the Smash 6 design plan was finalized (assuming it was decided sometime in 2016), Sakurai may have felt that there wasn't enough concrete ideas to draw from.

 

[Donald "JoJo" Trump]

They'd have to be a pair. It's the whole point of the game lol

I never played any XB game, so I didn't know. Is it worth playing?

 

[Danpal65]

can we just say how CLEAN the Spyro Reignited design for Spyro is?

It's just... I never even played Spyro as a kid but I LOVE this

It is everything that you could want translating the original Spyro games into HD. With the game being very heavily rumoured to be coming to the Switch as well this will defiantly be on my purchase list for Switch this year.