Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[92MilesPrower]

Lets get Drampa to go Berserk whenever the player who summoned him gets hurt.

Reminds me of Wobbuffet, minus hurting everyone, and I really like this idea. I also wanna see Turtonator do something with Shell Trap, not sure what exactly, though.

 

[New_Dumal]

I see that a point of discussion about AC characters and many others is moveset potential.Don't attach yourselves to this argument.

Movesets were built to R.O.B, G&W, Zelda. It's possible to create a moveset for any crazy pick on the game. Creativity is godlike.

 

[Pakky]

Which Isaac would be better?

The one from Binding of Issac is super interesting, but not very wanted.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

That's true, it's also worth noting there have been significant drought periods after both Brawl's and Smash Wii U's releases.

Like, after Brawl finally launched in Europe, there have been mostly shovelwares and games like Wii Music for like one year.
And after Smash Wii U's release, there has been Splatoon, and, hum...

Mario Maker, which got a stage.

Only "big" WiiU games without rep in any form are Star Fox Zero, Star Fox Guard and Xenoblade X.
Also Breath of the Wild but no-one counts it anymore.

 

[Opossum]

Let's get away from Isabelle and whatever else that just happened. Once again maybe we can talk about new Assist Trophies and Pokéball Pokemon, we have an entire 7th generation to work with

Assist Trophies? Okay. Here's one idea I had for one of my favorite characters that'd literally never get on the main roster.

Spoiler

Name: Merric
Game(s): Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light, Mystery of the Emblem, Shadow Dragon, and New Mystery of the Emblem (Marth's saga)
Attack: Excalibur

Description: Merric is Marth's childhood friend, and as such, the two are incredibly close, so Merric has decided to offer his help in the form of an Assist Trophy! Upon being summoned, he'll take out his legendary wind tome, Excalibur, and move his hand over its cover while closing his eyes. After a moment, he'll open his eyes as his hands and the tome start to give off a mystical green glow. Merric then shoots out sharp, crescent-shaped razor winds directly at the nearest opponent.

However, there's an added effect. In its games of origin, Merric's Excalibur spell does effective damage against airborne opponents, and this would be reflected in Smash. If the target is in the air while being struck by Excalibur, they will not only take three times the normal amount of damage they'd have taken otherwise, but they will also be sent rocketing back toward the ground. Hit the foe into the air and let Merric take care of the rest!

Upon finishing his barrage (roughly seven shots in semi-quick succession, roughly the same speed as Kat and Ana's cross slashes), Merric tucks away his tome, takes a bow, and disappears.

I am actually in the process of making a full-on moveset for him for fun, but this'll do for now.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So I wonder which leak will end up being the new ChaosZero/Ninka leak?

That said though it seems pretty obvious that these are definitely borderline confirmed stages.

Inkopolis
New Donk City/Odyssey Stage
Breath of The Wild Stage

 

[RouffWestie]

Let's get away from Isabelle and whatever else that just happened. Once again maybe we can talk about new Assist Trophies and Pokéball Pokemon, we have an entire 7th generation to work with

Tetris AT please. What's up with Tetris not being represented outside of the main themes? Why haven't we seen an Assist Trophy or even a stage or anything reminiscent of the gameplay itself?

 

[Wyoming]

Assist trophies, eh?



Birdo: shoots her eggs like she does in Super Mario Bros 2. (or to be pedantic, a modern Melee Birdo stage hazard)

Boom Boom: spins around in an arc



Cranky Kong: the Mr. Resetti of Smash Switch! Rants about youth today and how they have no respect for their elders if he gets hit. Maybe special DK character-related dialogue when they are on the field?

Krusha: imposes himself with brute force, laughing off puny attacks on his person.



Champion: they do Champion things, lads. Depends which one they go with.



Adeleine: paints random items, mostly healing ones for the person that summoned her to use. A replacement for Isabelle if she becomes playable.



Aparoids: experimental one here - they take over every non playable item in the game. Platforms, items on the stage, or even the stage itself. They manifest themselves wherever summoned. It probably couldn't work without too much work into it, however.

Other:

ARMS character: long-range hitter, depends who they go with.
Bubbles: bubbles trap ya
Frogger: a joke AT where it tries to avoid you rather than do anything to fight. The Goldeen of ATs.
Brian (Quest 64) - that's right, this mage will use his powers to fight anyone in his way

 

[92MilesPrower]

Poppy Bros. Jr. Or Sr. would be a fun Kirby assist trophy. They'll hop around the stage throwing bombs all over the place, making it somewhat hectic.

Edit: Actually, I wanna see Bugzzy or Bonkers, Bugzzy could dash around trying to grab and slam fighters and send out his ladybug minions, while Bonkers could smash people with his hammer and throw the exploding coconuts that he has.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Poppy Bros. Jr. Or Sr. would be a fun Kirby assist trophy. They'll hop around the stage throwing bombs all over the place, making it somewhat hectic.

... Now that you say it it's odd the first miniboss in the franchise wasn't used for anything like that. Maybe a lack of 3D appearances hurts? I don't THINK Sr. appeared in any games with a 3D look anyway

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So I wonder which leak will end up being the new ChaosZero/Ninka leak?

That said though it seems pretty obvious that these are definitely borderline confirmed stages.

Inkopolis
New Donk City/Odyssey Stage
Breath of The Wild Stage

Which leaks where those again? They're kinda blurred together in my head.

 

[Cosmic77]

So I wonder which leak will end up being the new ChaosZero/Ninka leak?
Inkopolis
New Donk City/Odyssey Stage
Breath of The Wild Stage

I hope the Splatoon stage ends up being a turf war stage (preferably Urchin Underpass since it's so iconic). It'd be pretty cool if you could have a Smash battle in the middle of a typical Inkling turf war.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

A Cranky Kong assist trophy that badmouths the characters in the fight and talks about how he could fight better than them would be funny.

It's more likely he'd probably be a newcomer if there's any additions to the DK universe, in which case I want him to have a commentary for every playable character in the trophies where he breaks the fourth wall. Kind of like Louie's alternate logs in Pikmin 2.

 

[Morbi]

Pretty much any non top 10-15 character that people are asking for could easily be an assist trophy (and based on past criteria, most of them could work as well). Honestly, we are at the point where most of the best character's available already ARE assist trophies and we need to go backwards. We already had to do that last time with Little Mac and I can guarantee with absolute certainty we will go that route again.

If Ridley is not playable this time, I suppose he can be upgraded to an assist trophy while we wait for a more competent developer to take over the series and do him justice.

 

[Koopaul]

You know what gets my goat is people who make claims about certain characters that should or shouldn't get in and don't even know anything about the character or the series.

I don't make any claims about who should get in from Xenoblade or Fire Emblem because I know very little about the series... Well I know some things, (I've done a little research) but not enough to make a claim that a certain character "isn't important".

Common things I hear are "If Spring Man gets in, then Ribbon Girl should be his alt." Have you even played ARMS!? Those two characters have distinct movements, stats, personalities, proportions and most importantly abilities that set them very much apart from each other.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I mean **** Rosalina hadn't really done combat before Smash 4 either.

And I seriously doubt canon Rosalina would use her children as a weapon in a fight, yet here she's just like ''You go flying into the face of Princess Peach right now my child. Sacrifice yourself for me!"

Smash makes no sense with canon and people really need to stop trying to apply game series canon and logic to how Sakurai is going to pick a character and what he'll do with them.

Depends on how far he can go with it though. Some liberties can be taken just fine to allow more creativity and charm, or create composite characters of sorts in means of all the moves they can pack from their source games.

But sometimes if he gets too adventurous or sticks to one thing beyond what fans are used to perceiving certain characters, it can cost some characters' entire previous canon because how Sakurai decided to retool them to his own whims, and Smash Bros's high influence on fans tend to make them adopt these new interpretations. Sometimes even the original creators themselves.

And as far as I've had experience with this, I've gotten a fair share of "stinkers":

Also, I really loathe Mario's "serious" look in Smash-games, he comes off just needlessly grump and menacing. One could say this personality change plays to his competitive nature in Mario-spinoffs here and there, plus the "Smash doesn't adhere to canon"-arguments, but I honestly feel like his jarring switch in his usual friendliness makes him pretty very grim to the point of unlikability.

I think Melee hit the best sweetspot, which I vastly prefer to his current portrayal:

Competitive, yet absolutely lavishes on it with a smile. Now that captures my heart immediately.


So yeah, turning Isabelle to a cute badass might be good to give her way to be a fighter, but it's still a massive departure from her canon character, and can pose a lot of alienation (+ Killager Memes V.2).

So when people say they can't see Isabelle fight or view her as too adorable/peaceful for that, it's pretty dismissive from you to brush those original, intended perceptions aside just because you think almighty Sakurai can modify characters entirely to serve his own whims or ideas to justify any characters Smash's audience doesn't deem "fitting" .

for example, I have to yet find entire fandom even agree is crowning achievement of Sakurai's genius due not giving a damn what his audiences expect from him based on previous foundations. Not that he has to, but it doesn't mean he's once again a huge innovator for it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You know what gets my goat is people who make claims about certain characters that should or shouldn't get in and don't even know anything about the character or the series.

I don't make any claims about who should get in from Xenoblade or Fire Emblem because I know very little about the series... Well I know some things, (I've done a little research) but not enough to make a claim that a certain character "isn't important".

Common things I hear are "If Spring Man gets in, then Ribbon Girl should be his alt." Have you even played ARMS!? Those two characters have distinct movements, stats, personalities, proportions and most importantly abilities that set them very much apart from each other.

Nobody seems to understand how costumes work. They suggest that Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina should become costumes when they whole reason they became separate characters is because of their differences, and then they suggest characters like Shadow should be a costume of Sonic.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think Smash switch may have the same "problem" that Brawl did in that the console it's launching on had a lot of big games for it's main series and risks out-dating itself before it starts.

Of course, a little DLC will fix that problem, at the expense of... well expense.

Fun fact: the newest character on the Brawl roster was Lucas, whose game was eventually released the year after the Brawl roster was finalised (after Mother 3's release date was bumped up from its intended year of 2005)

 

[Cosmic77]

Pretty much any non top 10-15 character that people are asking for could easily be an assist trophy (and based on past criteria, most of them could work as well). Honestly, we are at the point where most of the best character's available already ARE assist trophies and we need to go backwards. We already had to do that last time with Little Mac and I can guarantee with absolute certainty we will go that route again.

If Ridley is not playable this time, I suppose he can be upgraded to an assist trophy while we wait for a more competent developer to take over the series and do him justice.

My only request is that Sakurai doesn't repeat the same thing with the Zelda series.

Honestly, getting Midna, Skull Kid, and Girahim all together at once as new Assist Trophies was pretty disheartening. It'd be extremely frustrating if they all stay Assist Trophies in this game, and then Sakurai adds one or two Champion's in addition.

Then again, at least Zelda characters got recognized through Assist Trophies. Poor DK...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I can't decide which side of this "canon" argument is more ridiculous. Like we're seriously having an argument about Mario's facial expressions and Rosalina being able to fight?

 

[Morbi]

My only request is that Sakurai don't repeat the same thing with the Zelda series.

Honestly, getting Midna, Skull Kid, and Girahim all together at once as new Assist Trophies was pretty disheartening. It'd be extremely frustrating if they all stay Assist Trophies in this game, and then Sakurai adds one or two Champion's in addition.

Then again, at least Zelda characters got recognized through Assist Trophies. Poor DK...

That is the biggest problem. There are plenty of great, well-respected characters from the Zelda series; however, for whatever reason, they are relegated to assist trophies. In an alternate dimension, all of those cats are playable. In this one, Mipha (or just the champions in general) is going to be an assist trophy.

DK? What is that?

 

[Deleted member]

Also, I really loathe Mario's "serious" look in Smash-games, he comes off just needlessly grump and menacing. One could say this personality change plays to his competitive nature in Mario-spinoffs here and there, plus the "Smash doesn't adhere to canon"-arguments, but I honestly feel like his jarring switch in his usual friendliness makes him pretty very grim to the point of unlikability.

I think Melee hit the best sweetspot, which I vastly prefer to his current portrayal:

Competitive, yet absolutely lavishes on it with a smile. Now that captures my heart immediately.

And then there's Strikers, which makes Brawl/Smash 4 Mario friendly in comparison.



Say what you want about Brawl/Smash 4 Mario, he never grits his teeth at you like he's out for your blood.


Though Soccer in general seems to bring the worst out of the Mario crew.

 

[Morbi]

Nobody seems to understand how costumes work. They suggest that Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina should become costumes when they whole reason they became separate characters is because of their differences, and then they suggest characters like Shadow should be a costume of Sonic.

In my case, it is not a lack of comprehension so much as it is a disagreement. I believe the criteria is counter-intuitive and quite frankly nonsensical. Why is Alph a costume whereas Wolf is a palette and Lucina is her own character. It is arbitrary af and to that end, I can see why people do not understand without literally reading his criteria word for word. It is not exactly what I would consider "common sense.'

 

[Deleted member]

whereas Wolf is a palette

The gray Fox palette doesn't really reflect Wolf that much.

Wolf never wore purple.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Some of the older veterans have unique personalities in Smash, Mario is just one example, it's also true for at least DK and Bowser, while there are others you could argue. Personally I don't mind, but with how much Sakurai talks about representing characters in a faithful way it does surprise me that he hasn't taken any efforts towards making them feel more like their original selves.

 

[Morbi]

The gray Fox palette doesn't really reflect Wolf that much.

Wolf never wore purple.

Oh, I definitely agree, I never wear that monstrosity, I just figured that was what it was referencing. Perhaps not. But I guess the examples just shifts over to Daisy in that event.

Some of the older veterans have unique personalities in Smash, Mario is just one example, it's also true for at least DK and Bowser, while there are others you could argue. Personally I don't mind, but with how much Sakurai talks about representing characters in a faithful way it does surprise me that he hasn't taken any efforts towards making them feel more like their original selves.

I always got the impression this was more of a "recent" desire of his. Most of the newcomers in Smash 4 are done quite well, Brawl was better than Melee, but I doubt he felt that way back in Smash 64 for obvious reasons.

 

[-crump-]

So I finally beat Splatoon 2’s story mode (I’ve had it since launch but I completely forgot about the campaign), and I know this is really unlikely, but......

I would love to see a playable Squid Sisters tag-team. Marie could use her charger for ranged attacks, and Callie could use a roller to fight close-up. They could also incorporate their music into their gameplay somehow.

It’s something that I don’t expect at all, but they’re my favorite characters from the series, and “generic Inkling” that they’re going with doesn’t really excite me.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

And then there's Strikers, which makes Brawl/Smash 4 Mario friendly in comparison.

Yeah, I already mentioned spinoffs in this regard in my post. But he's not the only one super-gruff there. I'll talk more about it below though.

I generally tend to see Mario with some competitive nature to him across some places:

I think one of the bigger inspirations for how I came to conclusion of this was his grumpy proto-look during his Jumpman-years.


But in whole, I think it's still on a more light-hearted side than "he wants to flipping beat you up"-kind.

Hence why I think Smash Bros, being kinda more of a celebration of characters featured in it, would have benefitted more of Mario kept his cheery nature on his competitiveness - it just flows better than him trying to look edgy, even if mainly due how Mario's usually perceived and portrayed in his canon image and series.

Though Soccer in general seems to bring the worst out of the Mario crew.

Couldn't agree with you more. I mean, Strikers-games really had brought us the most extreme take on Mario's cast so far.

It's funny how we all agree that soccer's sort of that "forbidden" game Mario's cast should never be allowed to play. Because they will LUST FOR BLOOD.

I sometimes have been thinking if it was this game, along with Super Paper Mario's uncharacteristically serious plotline and themes, the big tipping points for Miyamoto to really ensure Mario's cast to stay being overall "simple" and not give any depth to them -as it'd just ruin his games and intended portrayal of Mario and his world under his vision.

 

[Morbi]

So I finally beat Splatoon 2’s story mode (I’ve had it since launch but I completely forgot about the campaign), and I know this is really unlikely, but......

I would love to see a playable Squid Sisters tag-team. Marie could use her charger for ranged attacks, and Callie could use a roller to fight close-up. They could also incorporate their music into their gameplay somehow.

It’s something that I don’t expect at all, but they’re my favorite characters from the series, and “generic Inkling” that they’re going with doesn’t really excite me.

I am probably going to play Inklings, just because there is no way they are not zoners; however, I definitely agree, I would prefer the host characters to generic Inklings and I doubt any alternative character swap is going to use my edgy gas mask. I hate the cover Inklings too. Just praying for a sick teal Inkling... I guess.

 

[Icedragonadam]

And Touhou Soccer ups Mario Strikers by having some of the characters OBLITERATE CITIES just to score a goal.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, I definitely agree, I never wear that monstrosity, I just figured that was what it was referencing. Perhaps not. But I guess the examples just shifts over to Daisy in that event.

Even with palettes, we know they don't truly hold any bearing on another character, considering Mario has had a Wario palette since the beginning and then Wario himself joined in Brawl with his classic overalls as a costume complete with a Mario palette, just with the shirt and overalls being opposite like how Mario used to wear his back in the day.

And now Kirby and Meta Knight have palettes that reference each other, for example.

 

[Koopaul]

Nobody seems to understand how costumes work. They suggest that Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina should become costumes when they whole reason they became separate characters is because of their differences, and then they suggest characters like Shadow should be a costume of Sonic.

Well I can understand Dr. Mario and Dark Pit being costumes. Dr. Mario because he litterally is Mario in a different costume. And Dark Pit because in his game he plays exactly like Pit and has all of his same powers and abilities.

If a character from a game are litterally just an outfit swap, or they move and play exactly the same as another character then I can understand them being a costume.

Like, for example, Springtron would be a great alt costume for Spring Man since in-game they move and play similarly.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

And then there's Strikers, which makes Brawl/Smash 4 Mario friendly in comparison.



Say what you want about Brawl/Smash 4 Mario, he never grits his teeth at you like he's out for your blood.


Though Soccer in general seems to bring the worst out of the Mario crew.

He's Italian, FOOTball is serious business there... and in Britain, and in Brazil, and in just about every country that has the sense to give the name Football to a sport that almost exclusively uses feet.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

It's funny how we all agree that soccer's sort of that "forbidden" game Mario's cast should never be allowed to play. Because they will LUST FOR BLOOD.

Meanwhile it brings something completely different out in Waluigi:

I have no idea how they got away with that.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well I can understand Dr. Mario and Dark Pit being costumes. Dr. Mario because he litterally is Mario in a different costume. And Dark Pit because in his game he plays exactly like Pit and has all of his same powers and abilities.

If a character from a game are litterally just an outfit swap, or they move and play exactly the same as another character then I can understand them being a costume.

Like, for example, Springtron would be a great alt costume for Spring Man since in-game they move and play similarly.

I disagree. Dr. Mario using fireballs and Dark Pit using sacred treasures or giving a peace sign is a problem. A lack of similarities is just as important as having differences.

Dr. Mario is not just Mario in another costume. He's a completely different occupation with it's own series of games, songs, and like I said before, differences from Mario. The differences in these personas are 100% necessary. So I don't understand it.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Meanwhile it brings something completely different out in Waluigi:

I have no idea how they got away with that.

Always will be the best thing of Strikers, bar none.

Luckily, we aren't short on that campiness in today's Waluigi:

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The winner is Shadow the Hedgehog, once against proving he is a massive fan favorite. Blaze was second, Silver was third, and Metal Sonic came last.

Next will be a villain centric Sonic poll, including a certain scientist. Your choices are Dr Eggman, Infinite, Zavok, and Chaos Zero.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin.

 

[Senselessbreak]

I have a feeling Springtron will be over Springman instead of Ribbon Girl...and that Ribbon Girl will be a separate semi clone. Arms feels like the kind of series that is getting 2 reps off the bat.

 

[RandomAce]

Dr. Mario is not just Mario in another costume. He's a completely different occupation with it's own series of games, songs, and like I said before, differences from Mario. The differences in these personas are 100% necessary. So I don't understand it.

I’m going to be honest here. But Dr. Mario being an alt for Mario isn’t really far fetched. At the end of the day, Dr. Mario is Mario with a lab coat, that is also why he is a clone to Mario since they’re both the same person albeit with differences to make Dr. Mario different from Mario. Although he has his own series and music and a different occupation, he is still just Mario.

If you want to represent Dr. Mario more than being just Mario in a lab coat, I would look to make a unique moveset for him, but alas I’m not sure if Sakurai even considered doing that.

EDIT: I realized if Dr. Mario wasn’t added as a character, Fire Emblem would’ve had the same characters as Mario.

Mario:
FE:

I wonder if they’ll add another unique Mario character for this Smash game.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I have a feeling Springtron will be over Springman instead of Ribbon Girl...and that Ribbon Girl will be a separate semi clone. Arms feels like the kind of series that is getting 2 reps off the bat.

Are you talking in terms of DLC or the base roster?