Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DraginHikari]

Donkey Kong Country is NOT a sub-series to Mario, please stop that ****.

It seems like they share the same world give how often they've appeared together but your correct as they rarely cross paths in their primary series line. As such it is hard to call DKC in particular a Mario subseries even if you could say it takes place in the same general world.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Did she even have an appearance on a Nintendo system?

She's had more appearances on Nintendo systems than Snake and Cloud I believe.

She's very iconic and I could see her if Sakurai suddenly doesn't care about realistic guns. That's her major hold back. You can't do Lara without her iconic dual pistols. She just wouldn't feel like Lara and that's so many peoples issue with the modern era games as well.

''Here's Lara Croft. She's now Katniss Everdeen!"

 

[Deleted member]

So...

What do you guys think of Lara Croft's chances?

Not good.

Not good at all.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Not good.

Not good at all.

If he's broken his real guns rule though her chances shoot way the hell up.

One of the most iconic female characters in gaming, paved the way with Samus/Chun Li/Sonya Blade for more female leeads in gaming, moveset potential out the wazoo, currently still relevant in gaming.

It's mostly just the pesky real guns thing that makes her really really impossible.

 

[DraginHikari]

She's had more appearances on Nintendo systems than Snake and Cloud I believe.

She's very iconic and I could see her if Sakurai suddenly doesn't care about realistic guns. That's her major hold back. You can't do Lara without her iconic dual pistols. She just wouldn't feel like Lara and that's so many peoples issue with the modern era games as well.

''Here's Lara Croft. She's now Katniss Everdeen!"

Tome Raider games are published by SquareEnix she has a pretty high level of competition against SquareEnix larger realm of known characters.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

I don't see Lara to be honest. While I only play one of her games, I don't think she is really that popular and/or fitting compared to many of Square's other characters (hint hint). At least, to the Nintendo fanbase.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Tome Raider games are published by SquareEnix she has a pretty high level of competition against SquareEnix larger realm of known characters.

Ehhhh. Lara Croft has done more for gaming than a Dragon Quest character, Geno, Sora or any of them.

Like back in the 90s in her hay day female gaming leads were not as plentiful as they are now.

Guess who helped pave the way for that.

Not to mention Uncharted another iconic gaming franchise literally was inspired by her. Granted she too was inspired by Indiana Jones and similar adventurers but the point still stands. She may competition, but her competition is nowhere near as iconic as she is and nowhere near as important to the pantheon and progress of gaming as she is.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Ehhhh. Lara Croft has done more for gaming than a Dragon Quest character, Geno, Sora or any of them.

Like back in the 90s in her hay day female gaming leads were not as plentiful as they are now.

Guess who helped pave the way for that.

Not to mention Uncharted another iconic gaming franchise literally was inspired by her. Granted she too was inspired by Indiana Jones and similar adventurers but the point still stands. She may competition, but her competition is nowhere near as iconic as she is and nowhere near as important to the pantheon and progress of gaming as she is.

Dragon Quest literally made the JRPG genre.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I don't see Lara to be honest. While I only play one of her games, I don't think she is really that popular and/or fitting compared to many of Square's other characters (hint hint). At least, to the Nintendo fanbase.

Lara Croft in her current form is popular.

But the iconic 90's form? Dude. You couldn't go outside your house without seeing her. She was in magazines, television ads, Angelina Jolie playing her was a big deal because you had an Oscar winner embracing a video game movie because of what a big deal Lara was to gaming.

Lara Croft is super popular. She's just not as popular as she used to be.

Dragon Quest literally made the JRPG genre.

But the most famous face of them is literally already in Smash. So like okay then? The most iconic face of Dragon Quest is Slime which is different enough from Cloud.

But if you went up to general public on street and showed them a picture of Lara Croft and a picture of Slime. Lara's gonna be recognized. Slime not so much.

JRPGs can be a hella niche market. Tomb Raider in the height of it's prime was FAR from niche interest.

 

[Deleted member]

But if you went up to general public on street and showed them a picture of Lara Croft and a picture of Slime. Lara's gonna be recognized. Slime not so much.

In the west, definitely. But Dragon Quest has always been a huge hit in Japan, while Tomb Raider...not so much.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

In the west, definitely. But Dragon Quest has always been a huge hit in Japan, while Tomb Raider...not so much.

True, but it's neither her nor there.

Both could be added, but people are literally saying the most iconic female gaming character to have been conceptualized that paved the way for the improvement of ones we already had before her, and the creations of others that came after her.

Has a snow balls chance in hell. And that couldn't be further from the truth. The thing in her way is her guns. Not her iconic status in any country.

 

[Starcutter]

Hey guys, I just wanna say that I vastly improved my Dark Matter render.

Spoiler

For reference on what was changed, here's the old one

Spoiler

 

[Tree Gelbman]

My last say on the matter since I don't want to spend too much time on it is.

Sakurai hasn't exclusively added characters only popular in Japan and vice versa.

I'm not sure why people think ''If it's not mega watt popular in Japan. Good luck."

Half the roster wouldn't be in Smash if that was criteria.

 

[PLATINUM7]

True, but it's neither her nor there.

Both could be added, but people are literally saying the most iconic female gaming character to have been conceptualized that paved the way for the improvement of ones we already had before her, and the creations of others that came after her.

Has a snow balls chance in hell. And that couldn't be further from the truth. The thing in her way is her guns. Not her iconic status in any country.

No I honestly think it's the competition from other more Nintendo relevant choices from Square Enix.

Snake uses realistic guns but he still got in. Yeah CQC is featured in the Metal Gear series but I don't think it would be too hard to incorporate a moveset for Lara. Especially when you consider Snake still had plastic explosives, frag grenades and a freaking RPG. Basically don't give her anything realistic that fires bullets.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

No I honestly think it's the competition from other more Nintendo relevant choices from Square Enix.

Snake uses realistic guns but he still got in. Yeah CQC is featured in the Metal Gear series but I don't think it would be too hard to incorporate a moveset for Lara. Especially when you consider Snake still had plastic explosives, frag grenades and a freaking RPG. Basically don't give her anything realistic that fires bullets.

Lara's whole thing is dual pistols. You take them away from her. You've lost a major part of her. And again ''Nintendo relevant" flew out the window with Cloud.

He's literally representing very little Nintendo relevance and more so his relevance to gaming and his genre.

You guys get so hung up on these things that are neither here nor there and then when Sakurai blows your mind as he did with Cloud. You're all ''But no way!"

 

[PLATINUM7]

Lara's whole thing is dual pistols. You take them away from her. You've lost a major part of her. And again ''Nintendo relevant" flew out the window with Cloud.

He's literally representing very little Nintendo relevance and more so his relevance to gaming and his genre.

You guys get so hung up on these things that are neither here nor there man and then when Sakurai blows your mind as he did with Cloud precisely. You're all ''But no way!"

Final Fantasy has more to do with Nintendo than Tomb Raider does though.

The latest Tomb Raider series also doesn't feature dual pistols. I know that's not the most iconic representation of her but it's something to think about.

 

[Deleted member]

If he's broken his real guns rule though her chances shoot way the hell up.

One of the most iconic female characters in gaming, paved the way with Samus/Chun Li/Sonya Blade for more female leeads in gaming, moveset potential out the wazoo, currently still relevant in gaming.

It's mostly just the pesky real guns thing that makes her really really impossible.

That all is well and fine for her being considered a worthy addition.
....but where does that relate to with how likely she is?

She has to get her foot in the door first, so to speak.

Is she high in demand?
Is whoever owns the Tomb Raider IP expressing any interest in the concept?
Is whoever owns the IP involved with the development of the game?

If the answer to all of these is "no" for any guest, then they don't really have a chance regardless of their iconic status.
That's not to say anyone who meets any of these criteria is automatically likely, as they can easily have something else that makes them rejected or they can simply not even be considered. But at least they have their foot in the door, if that makes any sense.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

You are right. Final Fantasy does. But very few of them starred Cloud. In fact the most iconic games he'd starred in on Nintendo systems weren't even Final Fantasys but Kingdom Hearts.

You're literally jumping through mental hoops to stick to this arbitrary rule you've placed on Sakurai's mindset, dude.

And considering Sakurai tends to prefer the most iconic versions of iconic characters I'm sure he'd get the 90's-early 00's version of Lara, not modern era bow and arrow Lara Croft. (He might give her a move representing that sure) but he'd go after the dual pistol wielding version. Just like he went after a more iconic version of Pac Man.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So...

What do you guys think of Lara Croft's chances?

Some gut feeling tells me Valkyrie would be put in Smash long before Lara Croft ever would.

In all seriousness, I'd rather have PSABR be given another shot just so Smash Bros doesn't necessarily have to start carrying the impossible mantle of "the videogame to sum up the entire legacy and history of videogames". That's just too much to force it to become, especially in expense of other companies that could just use better people inside to give us things that'd compete with Smash Bros. (PSABR at least tried).

Like, she has her big place on gaming history, but I don't think this means she's meant to go on Smash Bros to prove it, and I don't think she necessarily belongs there. Bayonetta already got quite lucky as she is, and fills the niche she would have put just fine.

Maan, I'm not joking when I lament how we have less crossover series due most of them getting mediocre installments or just went on complete dormancy. We could get these kinda characters to pop in with much less complications and bettering of other companies' image - when they do it RIGHT, that is.

Donkey Kong Country is NOT a sub-series to Mario, please stop that ****.

I mostly believe both just branched off to their own series since original DK, anyway, but nevertheless, DK-series has had pretty interesting history.

Once it could be said to be arcade-only game series due being on dormancy since Super Mario Bros hit such a high tide until the Donkey Kong Country hit the scenes, and since then, the rest was amazing history.

There's mainly the familial connection between both series, but aside from that, they live very much in their own verses. I mean, we don't see DK pop much in Mario-RPG games or like that dabble more on Mario's own setting, even if he seems recurring guy in various spinoffs.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Lara Croft being the most iconic woman in gaming is VERY arguable. Not even taking into consideration of characters like Peach or Zelda, there’s Samus who was well ahead of her and who has kept a very respectable reputation throughout her entire life.

The reason Lara was so prevalent in the 90’s was hardly because she deserved it. She was a very marketable character that was, besides PC, PlayStation exclusive. For that reason, and because Sony needed to prove themselves as deserving of their “on top of the world” status at that time, she was marketed the **** out of. A lot of it delved into sex appeal and hardly ever highlighted the gameplay, story, or really anything else. She also wasn’t exclusive in that PlayStation Promotion spotlight. Crash, Spyro, Snake, Cloud, and a whole lot more were a part of that marketing blitz.

I’m not saying that Lara isn’t popular. She is. Arguably iconic, even. Most iconic woman in gaming is REALLY stretching it though. Lara was never hugely popular because of her individual games anywho. Tomb Raider came out in 1996. Same year as Resident Evil. And Super Mario 64, which is more revered? TR2 was I’m 97, same year as FFVII, Symphony of the Night, Star Fox 64, and Goldeneye 007. TR3, 98. Ocarina of Time, Metal Gear Solid, Marvel vs. Capcom, Resident Evil, Banjo-Kazooie. Point? Tomb Raider was always overshadowed. They were profitable games, yeah. Iconic? Not so much. They don’t hold up at all.

Sorry for the rant but people always put Lara on a pedestal and I don’t really think she deserves to be there.

 

[PLATINUM7]

You are right. Final Fantasy does. But very few of them starred Cloud. In fact the most iconic games he'd starred in on Nintendo systems weren't even Final Fantasys but Kingdom Hearts.

You're literally jumping through mental hoops to stick to this arbitrary rule you've placed on Sakurai's mindset, dude.

And considering Sakurai tends to prefer the most iconic versions of iconic characters I'm sure he'd get the 90's-early 00's version of Lara, not modern era bow and arrow Lara Croft. (He might give her a move representing that sure) but he'd go after the dual pistol wielding version. Just like he went after a more iconic version of Pac Man.

I'm not jumping through any hoops. I know Cloud occupies this weird area that while Final Fantasy in Smash makes sense, the best character to represent it was one with very little Nintendo history.

You're point about Sakurai choosing the most iconic representation of a character makes sense. I was thinking if she were to be included she would have her classic appearance. What I didn't think was that her classic appearance with moves inspired by the latest games probably wouldn't make much sense. That was my bad.

But how am I jumping through hoops and imposing rules on Sakurai's mindset? Haven't you done the same thing by making it seem like Sakurai cares more about overall gaming importance than Nintendo relevance, or at least he should be? As if the other potential Square Enix characters can get ruled out simply because Lara's iconicness outweighs any history other characters have with Nintendo, cultural significance or even fan demand. We both honestly don't know what's more important to Sakurai. What almost everyone does when it comes to Smash specualtion is try to give reason for what they think may or may not happen based on their own perceptions of Sakurai's choices.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm not placing anything on Sakurai's mindset and never have, because I don't believe the man has a ruleset as mile long as others on this board seem to think he does.

Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, and Tomb Raider are the only mega watt iconic Square Enix franchises left in some capacity.

All of them have potential for Smash. That's all I've said.

I haven't said that Sakurai does have a gaming relevancy rule and not Nintendo relevancy rule. I just stated that Cloud seems to throw out the notion that Nintendo relevancy comes key in picking a third party rep for a franchise.

Not that that even really matters with Lara considering she's had like 6 plus games on Nintendo systems at least and for a while they were all her core games of the time as well.

Look I'm done with the Lara conversation. Obviously none of us our budging. I just do tend to see a lot of people on this board placing themselves in Sakurai's mind as if they know how he thinks and none of us do.

 

[vaanrose]

I don't see why the third party characters have to fight among themselves. Sakurai isn't looking at the third party companies and then picking a single character from their catalog to represent the whole. It's not Tomb Raider OR Dragon Quest. Smash 4 already introduced third party "reps" at an imbalanced rate with two Capcom and Sega "reps" but just one from Namco and Square.

Third party characters will get in on the strength of their character. The company that owns them is just the one that has to sign the paperwork. That's particularly the case with characters who are owned by completely different companies that made them in the first place, like Lara Croft, Bomberman, Crash or Spyro. These characters hardly represent their owners. If that means Square Enix gets 17 characters and Namco gets 1, then so be it.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I don't see why the third party characters have to fight among themselves. Sakurai isn't looking at the third party companies and then picking a single character from their catalog to represent the whole. It's not Tomb Raider OR Dragon Quest. Smash 4 already introduced third party "reps" at an imbalanced rate with two Capcom and Sega "reps" but just one from Namco and Square.

Third party characters will get in on the strength of their character. The company that owns them is just the one that has to sign the paperwork. That's particularly the case with characters who are owned by completely different companies that made them in the first place, like Lara Croft, Bomberman, Crash or Spyro. These characters hardly represent their owners. If that means Square Enix gets 17 characters and Namco gets 1, then so be it.

17 Square Enix characters?

Might as well just name it Nintendo vs Square.

Or MUGEN

 

[Deathcarter]

I think people don't want to limit themselves to the 2014-2016 age because that were... barren days... the most notable games from that period have already confirmed their presence in Smash Bros (Splatoon, BoTW, FE:Fates)... except maybe Star Fox Zero and Xenoblade X.

Its not that bad, you forgot Treasure Tracker and Pokémon Sun and Moon. Animal Crossing and Kirby also put in work during this period so Isabelle and Bandana Dee are now major stars. There's also the Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess remakes if Sakurai wants to pull his head out of his ass when it comes to Zelda newcomers.

 

[Koopaul]

Listening to that Source Gaming video and seeingnthe Splatoon 1 Inklings really gives me the feeling that this game is going to include mostly Wii U and post-2014 3DS stuff.

So what did the Wii U have?

-Tropical Freeze was a big one. I'm betting we'll atleast get a new stage and possibly a character.
-We also had The Wonderful 101 (but that didn't do too well). So I'm not sure about it but who knows.
-Captain Toad Treasure Trackers. If there's going to be a new Mario character it'll probably be him or nobody.
-Star Fox Zero may have been a failure but I highly believe a lot of designs changes to Fox and Falco and other influences and from that game will be in here.
-If there is a new Xenoblade character it might be from Xenoblade Chronicles X, not 2.
-Tokyo Mirage Sessions was highly praised but it's got that wierd crossover status so I'm not entirely sure.

Honestly there's not much for the Wii U. However, the 3DS had a ton of stuff since Smash 4.

Here's some interesting highlights from the 3DS after Smash came out.

-Codename STEAM. Highly unlikely this will get much more than trophies and music (I'm hoping for music since it had some killer tunes.)
-Fossil Fighters Frontier. I doubt anything for this one too because the series has been around for a while and only gets trophies.
-Chibi-Robo! Zip-Lash. Another unlikely one as this was the most hated game in the series.
-Rhythm Heaven Mega Mix. This one is interesting as it is the first RH game to have a protagonist, which may have been the reason why the series never got a character to begin with. I don't know. I'm only speculating.
-Boxboy! Here's a series that saw a lot of success and even got it's own amiibo! There may be a chance we see something here.
-Nintendo Badge Arcade was actually quite the hit. I could see Arcade Bunny being an assist.
-Style Savvy: Fashion Forward. I don't know. The most we will probably get is music and trophies.
-Miitopia. Probably will get a stage like Tomodachi Life did.

I left out certain games on the 3DS that were from series that already had lots of content in Smash and probably won't add anything much from them like Tri Force Heroes.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Listening to that Source Gaming video and seeingnthe Splatoon 1 Inklings really gives me the feeling that this game is going to include mostly Wii U and post-2014 3DS stuff.

So what did the Wii U have?

-Tropical Freeze was a big one. I'm betting we'll atleast get a new stage and possibly a character.
-We also had The Wonderful 101 (but that didn't do too well). So I'm not sure about it but who knows.
-Captain Toad Treasure Trackers. If there's going to be a new Mario character it'll probably be him or nobody.
-Star Fox Zero may have been a failure but I highly believe a lot of designs changes to Fox and Falco and other influences and from that game will be in here.
-If there is a new Xenoblade character it might be from Xenoblade Chronicles X, not 2.
-Tokyo Mirage Sessions was highly praised but it's got that wierd crossover status so I'm not entirely sure.

Honestly there's not much for the Wii U. However, the 3DS had a ton of stuff since Smash 4.

Here's some interesting highlights from the 3DS after Smash came out.

-Codename STEAM. Highly unlikely this will get much more than trophies and music (I'm hoping for music since it had some killer tunes.)
-Fossil Fighters Frontier. I doubt anything for this one too because the series has been around for a while and only gets trophies.
-Chibi-Robo! Zip-Lash. Another unlikely one as this was the most hated game in the series.
-Rhythm Heaven Mega Mix. This one is interesting as it is the first RH game to have a protagonist, which may have been the reason why the series never got a character to begin with. I don't know. I'm only speculating.
-Boxboy! Here's a series that saw a lot of success and even got it's own amiibo! There may be a chance we see something here.
-Nintendo Badge Arcade was actually quite the hit. I could see Arcade Bunny being an assist.
-Style Savvy: Fashion Forward. I don't know. The most we will probably get is music and trophies.
-Miitopia. Probably will get a stage like Tomodachi Life did.

I left out certain games on the 3DS that were from series that already had lots of content in Smash and probably won't add anything much from them like Tri Force Heroes.

I think Sakurai might have went with the Splatoon 1 designs because they are the OG designs and are more iconic. Sakurai used Villager's City Folk design, despite the fact that New Leaf was shown off to the public almost a full year before development for Smash 3DS/Wii U started.

If we see that Inklings don't use any weapons from Splatoon 2 in Smash then that would warrant some concern.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I just do tend to see a lot of people on this board placing themselves in Sakurai's mind as if they know how he thinks and none of us do.

I don't think it's exactly that we try to pretend being Sakurai or emulate his thinking, yet be proven always "wrong" - it's just what PLATINUM7 , all of us are giving out our thoughts or viewpoints on the the series over time and the choices made for it based on our long history of perceiving it from Sakurai had given to us so far, and weigh it and how that'll affects certain wishes or inclusions of things we'd like to see to keep our interest.

I mean, I still know I won't ever see C-list Nintendo characters in Smash aside from one or two exceptions, because they have been time to time being said to be too obscure (Takamaru being biggest offender) - and I'm seeing Captain Toad more as an Assist Trophy due Toad has already been out-ruled few times before in last games, while Rosalina got in instead.

That's kinda saying I'm trying to lay down patterns, but to imagine that Cloud breaking a rather hard rule (when I feel like there was something going on behind the scenes to make him an exception, as seen in his low music selection) doesn't mean anyone is suddenly a free game because we have no idea what choices Sakurai will throw in to the game.

It also doesn't mean our perception of how we've come to view Super Smash Bros. like and what we deem there fitting or seamless doesn't even exist, because it'd imply Smash Bros. has no true identity or premise that we can hold on to start our speculation what we'll see about it in the future. (Being a Nintendo-centric crossover game mainly, that is.).

So if Lara Croft feels odd for people, much like Cloud did due how we saw Smash as having mainly Nintendo-centric 3rd Parties, it's not meaning we're trying to put ourselves on Sakurai yet contradicting ourselves - it's just that our perception of the series getting broken about can lead to high alienation and bigger risks in the future due how there's less limitations, and we'll be just confused on what to expect next, unless everyone in the world wants Smash Bros to become the official MUGEN (which sounds more like a disaster to me and would just pose Sakurai going to a massive burnout in a fast rate).

That's kinda why it's odd for all of us to start to talk about Lara Croft as a possible inclusion without any ounce of doubt.

I'm already getting tired of talking about non-Nintend-centric 3rd parties like this, or even non-videogame characters, in Nintendo-centric crossover game as is aside from very iconic ones we've got so far.

 

[Double0Groove]

If he's broken his real guns rule though her chances shoot way the hell up.

One of the most iconic female characters in gaming, paved the way with Samus/Chun Li/Sonya Blade for more female leeads in gaming, moveset potential out the wazoo, currently still relevant in gaming.

It's mostly just the pesky real guns thing that makes her really really impossible.

"Shoot way the hell up" is one helluva stretch. To begin with, Thanks to Snake, her chances were never as low as you're making it out to be, and her more recent games have her using a lot more weapon types than just guns, so the guns were never going to be a hindrance to her chances. As for her actual chances, that all depends on her demand. Which isn't that high if we're being honest. If nothing else, She's like Sora in the sense that there's a noticeable amount of demand for the character, but it's probably nowhere near enough to get the character noticed, let alone get put in the game.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

She's like Sora in the sense that there's a noticeable amount of demand for the character, but it's probably nowhere near enough to get the character noticed, let alone get put in the game.

Sora is pretty popular though, at least more than Lara among the Nintendo crowd.

 

[Deleted member]

So...

What do you guys think of Lara Croft's chances?

Very low.
Like, extremely close to impossible.
Basically what Golden said.

Not good.

Not good at all.

She is iconic, but I just do not see her likely at all.


Also I am hoping for some third parties, but I do not want too many third parties. Too many third parties is just wrong for a Nintendo game.

When anyone says that Smash 4 had too much third parties, I give them a bold "no".

 

[Superyoshiom]

I know this is a divisive issue but I really don’t want smash to become a “gaming mascots from all different companies” showcase. The third parties in smash were all chosen not only for their significance to gaming, but also to Nintendo. Cloud, as we’ve established, fills a unique niche with his series and Pac-Man is one of, if not the most iconic gaming character. I’m not trying to think for Sakurai here but while characters like Lara Croft and crash aren’t popular mascots, they’re not:

1) Mascots from industry-shaping series like final fantasy, sonic, street fighter, or Pac-Man
2) Mascors from series so close to Nintendo they at some point could be considered Nintendo franchises like mega man or even Bayonetta at this point.

I think Sakurai understands that there is an overlap between general Nintendo fans (not just smash fans) and the current series here. But series like tomb raider, or crash bandicoot, whose most iconic games, the games they’re remembered for, never changed the industry the way final fantasy or street fighter did, or didn’t even come to Nintendo until much later, just don’t have that overlap.

I know it’s a controversial opinion and you never know with Sakurai, but this isn’t the way I see it, at most I can see characters who’ve recently had consistent Nintendo appearances like shovel knight or rayman get in.

Also Laura Croft is not the most iconic woman in gaming, peach. Zelda. Samus, and even most of the female Pokémon trainers from the games are more iconic and recognizable than her. Nintendo has that area down pat.

 

[vaanrose]

Also Laura Croft is not the most iconic woman in gaming, peach. Zelda. Samus, and even most of the female Pokémon trainers from the games are more iconic and recognizable than her. Nintendo has that area down pat.

Lara Croft literally just got her third feature film. She's a bankable, high profile character with huge mass appeal. She's been on over a thousand magazine covers, precisely because she's iconic and her image alone sells. She's reached a level of mainstream recognition very few characters ever reach.

She's one of the most iconic characters in gaming, period, let alone female characters.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Lara not only has had three movies. In each movie she was played by a capable Oscar winning actress. Like I don't even think any other gaming character has that male or female.

Peach has mainstream appeal. Both in and outside of gaming. But I don't think I'd say the same for Zelda and Samus. And certainly not the Pokemon Trainers.

I think the Pokemon Trainers from the anime are legit the only noticeable Pokemon Trainers with any sort of outside appeal. And at a certain point I'd cut off even the anime trainers with the originals like Ash, Misty, Brock, Jesse, and James being the most iconic and recognizable to a large audience.

 

[vaanrose]

Lara not only has had three movies. In each movie she was played by a capable Oscar winning actress. Like I don't even think any other gaming character has that male or female.

Angelina Jolie didn't make people go see a Lara Croft movie. Lara Croft made people go see an Angelina Jolie movie. She's mentioned in interviews how following those films people would ask her to sign autographs as "Lara Croft."

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Angelina Jolie didn't make people go see a Lara Croft movie. Lara Croft made people go see an Angelina Jolie movie. She's mentioned in interviews how following those films people would ask her to sign autographs as "Lara Croft."

Oh trust me I know. There were even people who despite Angelina having talent ******* about her casting since she was not a British actress.

It still proves the clout of Lara Croft as an icon that not one, but two Oscar winners have now accepted the role gleefully.

Video game movies are a thing that most critically acclaimed actors and actresses stay away from. Angelina and Alicia have both straight up said ''I jumped at being Lara Croft. Are you kidding me?!"

I legit just saw gifs of Alicia Vikander earlier where she talked about how she would secretly play video games as a girl and she rushed to buy a Playstation 4 so she could play the game and prepare for the role and would turn down her friends invites to go out because she was just that excited to play Lara Croft.

 

[vaanrose]

Oh trust me I know. There were even people who despite Angelina having talent ******* about her casting since she was not a British actress.

It still proves the clout of Lara Croft as an icon that not one, but two Oscar winners have now accepted the role gleefully.

Video game movies are a thing that most critically acclaimed actors and actresses stay away from. Angelina and Alicia have both straight up said ''I jumped at being Lara Croft. Are you kidding me?!"

I legit just saw gifs of Alicia Vikander earlier where she talked about how she would secretly play video games as a girl and she rushed to buy a Playstation 4 so she could play the game and prepare for the role and would turn down her friends invites to go out because she was just that excited to play Lara Croft.

I was mostly just saying, it's easy to forget now that Jolie's a household name herself, that playing Lara Croft is what propelled her to be as big as she is. This despite the fact most people agree the movies are pretty average at best, and that she already had an Oscar. The character just had that power.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Using movies as a form of proving iconicness is a very poor point. By that logic she is FAR more iconic than Mario cause he's only had one movie. Peach is non existent in iconicness because she isn't in that movie. Also, magazine covers? Literally, anytime a new game that's worth anything at all the vg magazines are FLOODED with pictures of the hottest new game. Yep, that's happened with Tomb Raider for sure. What about all the years that Samus has been on the front covers of magazines for Metroid, Metroid 2, Super, Prime trilogy, fusion, Other M, Samus Returns? Do those not count? Hell Gaminformers 300th issue from this month had a Metroid variant despite there being no Metroid article in the issue. People make out Lara to be a much bigger deal than she really is.

She's popular, yeah, she's iconic probably, but calling her one of the most iconic videogame characters ever is uh, really out there. You could hold up a picture of her to someone alongside Peach and I'm sure the ratio would lean, easily, in Peach's favor. May have a good 50/50 split or even in favor of Lara against Samus but I'm not sure if it would be that huge of a difference. Smash Bros. alone has helped boost Samus's popularity. Lara isn't overrated by any means. Underrated even. But she's not as HUGE as people like to make her out to be. At all.

 

[Gestahl]

Maybe they could do like a daisy newcomer with a lara skin? Then we could have the best of two worlds!

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The reason Lara was and is so big as a female protagonist is that she was the first one front and center in her game being obviously a female character.

Peach was there, yes and very feminine, but a majority of the characterization we now have for Peach happened after Lara Croft.

Zelda was as well but she never took much center stage in her tales until the 64 era where her role began to diversify and increase.

Samus was a precursor but she was hidden by androgynous armor to the point it wasn't until Smash that a mass amount of people even knew she was a female character outside of the die-hards.

Chun Li, Cammy and Sonya Blade were great precursors as well and really paved way for female characters in fighting games, but Ryu and Liu Kang/Scorpion/Sub Zero overshadowed them being the poster boys for their franchises.

Lara was an un-apologetically feminine female lead in a video game doing things that only dude heroes did before. She was shooting, she was climbing, she was smart, and sassy.

That played a major part in her blow up. Not just the fact she was a sex symbol.

Let these gifs of Alicia Vikander tell a tale of her impact (Keep in mind she's talking about being 10 years old at the time):

In this very same interview another critically acclaimed actress in Margot Robbie goes ''Oh I'm so excited! I love Tomb Raider."

Don't underestimate the importance and appeal of Lara Croft.

Her main hurdle truly is her guns and the fact there's a ton of demand for a ton of 3rd parties at the moment.