Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

It kinda depends on what source you take and consider canon. Sheik was considered female, and just Zelda in disguise, in Ocarina of Time and has been confirmed by Anouma and Bill Trinen as being so. But, if you follow the manga, the Zelda herself is sealed away and Sheik is actually Zelda transformed into a man.

In one case she is cross dressing and I guess the other would be more in line with being transgender in a magical sort of way.

Well when it's just a disguise which had been gendered incorrectly in OoT because of a mistranslation, that's not really the case

 

[Chandeelure]

I we get an ARMS stage, we better get Dr. Coyle's theme in it.

 

[Cosmic77]

Looking at the base roster of past games the newest characters included in those games were:

• - Last minute clone addition who was only considered after Sakurai finished his project plan and had extra time for bonus characters.He had perfect timing as his game was even originally slated to be released before Melee. More importantly, he was similar enough to Marth to be feasible as a last-minute clone character whilst distinct enough in the eyes of Sakurai to be interesting. If it weren't for the last two points and Sakurai looking for clones after getting every other character completed, Roy wouldn't have been considered.
  
• - The only Brawl newcomer to make their debut the year after the roster was decided. Mother 3 had a long development history, spanning 4 consoles. More relevant to the point is that it was around 60% complete and it was, when Mother 3 ended up being moved to the GBA, intended to be released in 2005, the same year the Brawl roster was finalised (with one obvious exception).
  
• - A Pokemon X and Y newcomer was stated specifically to be the one exception to the Smash 4 roster being hard-locked as it was reserved a slot. The most favourable Pokemon game in terms of timing was X and Y, which was released in the sweetspot of ~one year after the roster was finalized but ~one year before Smash 4 was released.

So when you look at it, base game newcomer characters that debuted after the roster for each game was finalized have been far more rare than people think.

The only reason why I think this trend might be broken in Smash Switch is because unlike those past three games, Sakurai isn't essentially starting from scratch. I don't think that same pressure to make a predetermined roster and formulate a game plan for how to spend the development time is going to be there. He's focusing on one game this time, all the data he needs for pre-existing characters is already available in Smash Wii U, and he's presumably been given about two years to make the game (took two and a half years to make Smash 3DS/Wii U from scratch).

BotW Link at least shows us that Sakurai is considering every game up to the Switch's launch in March 2017.

 

[KingBroly]

The only reason why I think this trend might be broken in Smash Switch is because unlike those past three games, Sakurai isn't essentially starting from scratch. I don't think that same pressure to make a predetermined roster and formulate a game plan for how to spend the development time is going to be there. He's focusing on one game this time, all the data he needs for pre-existing characters is already available in Smash Wii U, and he's presumably been given about two years to make the game (took two and a half years to make Smash 3DS/Wii U from scratch).

BotW Link at least shows us that Sakurai is considering every game up to the Switch's launch in March 2017.

I think it's safe to say that BotW Link was at least fully realized by the Zelda team long before then. Rex and Pyra, going by the E3 2017 trailer for Xenoblade 2, clearly weren't. If Spring Man gets in, he's the last character, release date wise, that gets in, barring any clonage.

PREDICTION: Alph will be playable, using Olimar's 3DS/U moveset while Olimar gets his Brawl moveset back

I also predict that Metroid will get a new character in the form of CHIBI SAMUS from Federation Force. CHIBI Samus will be the Smallest character in the game, even smaller than Little Mac.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

You know, after playing through Mother 3 and watching a play through of Earthbound Beginnings, I'd be cool with a new Mother rep; and I'd be down for Ninten or Flint specifically.

Ninten especially, so long as it means we can get an Earthbound character that doesn't have some variation of PK Fire, Thunder and PSI Magnet.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I wish Earthbound/Mother's creator being done wasn't the end of that series. That series has a ton of potential for future games.

I'd love for it to have new installments and blow up and become Nintendo's ''traditional" style RPG series.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't really think BotW Link is gonna be too much different from the other Adult Links who where playable in the other Smash games honestly. He'll still use his Master Sword, without glow gimmicks hopefully, his Bow, do a Spin Attack and use BotW variations of Bombs and Boomerang.

However he might also get the Spin Attack as a Down Smash and have a new Up B. Remote Bombs and the BotW version of the Boomerang would also function quite differently than before. The Gale Boomerang felt a little too forced to me honestly. It wasn't even a very effective weapon in Twilight Princess, and that translated over.

AT THE VERY LEAST I don't want BotW Link have that HORRIBLE Master Sword gimmick in Smash. Sugar Ray PLZ

 

[Cosmic77]

I wish Earthbound/Mother's creator being done wasn't the end of that series. That series has a ton of potential for future games.

I'd love for it to have new installments and blow up and become Nintendo's ''traditional" style RPG series.

If Nintendo could save a series as niche as FE and make it one of their more popular IPs, then EarthBound would likely be a massive success if it were still alive today.

Unlike a typical RPG, EarthBound doesn't take place in some magical, medieval setting where huge dragons, deadly monsters, and mighty warriors are your standard enemies. It's unique in the fact that it takes place in a normal, modern American setting. A little kid with sneakers and a striped shirt is the protagonist, you fight with baseball bats and sticks (and magical PSI), and most of the enemies you fight are too weird and random for you to take seriously.

It's a shame it's likely never going to make a comeback, but who knows? Perhaps one lucky day, a remake or a new game will get announced, and we'll all be speculating if EarthBound will get a new character in Smash.

 

[Koopaul]

I think the only differences in BotW Link's moveset are:

He won't have the Clawshot or Hookshot and might just grab normally.
His bombs might be able to be remotely blown up.
His Boomerang might be something different entirely.
His Final Smash might incorporate a Rune like Stasis or the Divine Beasts.

Other than that all the moves will probably be the same, as there would be no other reason to change them except for the sake of overhauling Link.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Nintendo could save a series as niche as FE and make it one of their more popular IPs, then EarthBound would likely be a massive success if it were still alive today.

Unlike a typical RPG, EarthBound doesn't take place in some magical, medieval setting where huge dragons, deadly monsters, and mighty warriors are your standard enemies. It's unique in the fact that it takes place in a normal, modern American setting. A little kid with sneakers and a striped shirt is the protagonist, you fight with baseball bats and sticks (and magical PSI), and most of the enemies you fight are too weird and random for you to take seriously.

It's a shame it's likely never going to make a comeback, but who knows? Perhaps one lucky day, a remake or a new game will get announced, and we'll all be speculating if EarthBound will get a new character in Smash.

The MOTHER franchise also got a deep lore, lots of obscure references to real life, lots of quirkiness and silliness, a spiritual side, and it's surprisingly dark for how it presents itself.

It's easy to understand why the games are loved so much. And I LOVE how Smash immortalises the franchise.

Which is why I wish they could do the same for Golden Sun <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< /////////////////////////////// 333333333333333333

 

[Tree Gelbman]

When did EarthBound Beginnings release? I could potentially see Ninten because of it's release, but his similar appearance to Ness might hurt him.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder how a Ninten moveset would work without cloning Ness or Lucas in any way.

Not saying it can't be done, just have no clue where to begin.

 

[SneakyLink]

When did EarthBound Beginnings release? I could potentially see Ninten because of it's release, but his similar appearance to Ness might hurt him.

I believe it released hours after Roy, Ryu, and Lucas came out for 4.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't keep up with Pokemon, but is this suppose to be a new generation of Pokemon coming:

New Pokemon The Movie: Everyone’s Story trailer arriving soon with unrevealed Pokemon https://t.co/gaM39qkAPr pic.twitter.com/l4CCA7iQeW

— Nintendo Everything (@NinEverything) April 6, 2018

Or are more 7th generation Pokemon supposed to be revealed?

I will say this regarding really new characters - there was an example of a character that was very new at the time but Sakurai refused to add despite being aware of that character. This example was actually Olimar in Melee. I don't think people are focusing on the idea of whether or not he'd want to add specific non-clone characters that debuted after Smash rosters were finalized and are more debating whether or not he would know them. That is at least something worth considering

Really interesting. I did not know about the Olimar bit. That kind of puts the coffin for an ARMs character to get in, but then again, who knows, Nintendo could recommend Sakurai to add someone like Spring Man to get in late in development based on the marketing of the game and the competitive support.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I wonder how a Ninten moveset would work without cloning Ness or Lucas in any way.

Not saying it can't be done, just have no clue where to begin.

Well, I have a few ideas...

Neutral B - PSI Shield. Creates a shield around Ninten that halves all damage and knckback Ninten would have taken when hit.

Side B - PK Beam. Fires a beam that increases in strength the longer the button is held.

Up B - Teleport. Ninten teleports a set distance- can also act out of his teleport.

Down B - Telepathy -> 4th -D Slip. A counter where Ninten tries to read the opponents' move. If the opponent hits him, he will automatically make the opponent go into a Witch Time like state where the opponent is slowed down significantly. Unlike Witch Time, Ninten cannot move once 4th -D Slip has been activated, and instead must manually counter attack by doing a throw with very small amount of knockback*.

The four throws allow for one of the following effects to take place upon the move's activation:

DThrow: activates Defence Down
UThrow: " Defence Up
FThrow: " Quick Up
BThrow: " Offence Up

More than one buff/defbuff cannot occur at the same time.

*The throw can be done to opponents offstage should they get caught in it too- the tiny amount of knockback used to compensate for the amount of grimy shenanigans that could ensue. And in case you don't get it:

Telepathy activates -> opponent hits Ninten -> 4th- D Slip activates -> Ninten does either throw listed above -> Ninten gains buff/affected opponent gains debuff.



It's a little rough, especially with all the balancing issues that comes with a move like Down B and liberties made with having PK Beam being a part of the move set, but it's a start.

 

[Pakky]

I we get an ARMS stage, we better get Dr. Coyle's theme in it.

I want her to be in Smash so bad. I WANT VILLAINS !!!


Also if Bayo can get in with her guns that shoot bullets Lara can squeeze by. Also she gets a bow and arrow so yeah.

Would really rather Ivy over Nightmare if we get any from Soul Calibur because her blade whip is rad!

Would really like it if Jeanne was a costume for Bayo and that if Ms. Pacman and Ken were costumes for Ryu and Pacman.

Wouldn't mind Chun Li and I wouldn't mind Crash and Spyro.

Or maybe M.Bison if were talking villains, I mean Akuma isn't really a villain, he's just a guy that likes fighting too much kinda like Mewtwo.

Okay,okay if I had a list of villans here's how it would go in no real order:

- Dr. Cyole

- Eggman or metal Sonic

-Giygas (The mewtwo one) or Porky

- M. Bison

- Wolf

- Bass

- Plasma Wraith

- Deathborn

- DJ Octavio

- Marx or Dark Matter

- Ridley

- King K Rool


I think I got all the major ones?

 

[DraginHikari]

I don't see why the third party characters have to fight among themselves. Sakurai isn't looking at the third party companies and then picking a single character from their catalog to represent the whole. It's not Tomb Raider OR Dragon Quest. Smash 4 already introduced third party "reps" at an imbalanced rate with two Capcom and Sega "reps" but just one from Namco and Square.

Third party characters will get in on the strength of their character. The company that owns them is just the one that has to sign the paperwork. That's particularly the case with characters who are owned by completely different companies that made them in the first place, like Lara Croft, Bomberman, Crash or Spyro. These characters hardly represent their owners. If that means Square Enix gets 17 characters and Namco gets 1, then so be it.

The paperwork and costs associated with licensing it is probably the main thing that would prevent Sakurai from including any third party they want. Though it seems like it should be a simple thing, agreements between large corporations are rarely that simple.

I knew this was bad in our community when I had to explain many many many many times why Pac Man was important during the base roster of Smash 4.

Like Pac Man.

Godfather of all gaming.

It comes down to certain bias that created based on people perspective and how the industry has kind of abused the word 'iconic' as a marketing tool rather then a description. People discarded Pac-Man because let's be real, people simply did not want him in the game and were using anything they could to make him seem impossible for Smash for that reason. Some people could do the same for Lara though I personally think there are other barriers against Lara that don't involve just a straight bias for the character.

I am just watching more of this show....

Everyone in it is obnoxious.

It appears to be a live action sitcom in the vein of other Disney Channel style sitcoms, I always just assumed obnoxiousness just comes with the territory lol

 

[Staarih]

I don't keep up with Pokemon, but is this suppose to be a new generation of Pokemon coming:

Or are more 7th generation Pokemon supposed to be revealed?

Zeraora has yet to be officially revealed so it's probably just that.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I cannot see Ninten mostly because the series is too dormant to be considered for last-minute development. For franchises like Fire Emblem, Splatoon, and Donkey Kong Country, I can see last-minute clones from them with the new games. It makes more sense to get those characters from a business perspective. But, I do not think the re-release of Earthbound Beginnings for the U.S. is notable enough for Sakurai to consider Ninten for last minute dessert. Even if it was notable, Sakurai will most likely add clones that are from recently released games of 2017/2018. Ninten does not have that convenience of relevancy to get in as a clone at this point of Smash Switch development.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I wish Earthbound/Mother's creator being done wasn't the end of that series. That series has a ton of potential for future games.

I'd love for it to have new installments and blow up and become Nintendo's ''traditional" style RPG series.

I actually found it very fitting for it to just be a trilogy, once I was done with Mother 3 I felt completely satisfied with the series, I feel it's one of the few Nintendo series that shouldn't be a once-per-console release. I'd absolutely hate it if they brought it back without Itoi, there's not a single Nintendo franchise that's as dependant on one man as Mother with Itoi, they could try and recapture that unique feel but I'm certain it would never be the same.

For the record Earthbound is my all-time favorite game, so it might be the case that I'm a bit overprotective about how the series is handled, but I really do believe it's best for it to be left untouched.

 

[Pakky]

I'm still thinking about how hype Spyro 3 is gonna be!

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Eggman dominated the last Sonic villain poll with ease. They may had gotten fewer votes in comparison, but more people wanted Chaos 0 and Infinite than Zavok.

Next will be a poll featuring members of Team Rose and Dark. Your choices are Big the Cat, Cream the Rabbit, Rouge the Bat, and E-123 Omega.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin.

 

[Senselessbreak]

So while a lot of cards are in Waddle Dees favor hes still missing the "so what?!" factor. Like hes not the main star of his series. Hes not the main villain. He doesn't have his own game. His series is already properly represented. Is he unique?...probably, I mean I find the argument that a character can't be unique terrible. But I'm still trying to wrap my head around his potential inclusion. Like hes not a P2 or P3 character, but instead the P4 character. Characters like Diddy Kong and Dixie Kong started as the P2 character and got their own starring role in a game, yet even Dixie is struggling to get included in Smash. So what would make a P4 higher priority? We still don'y have Peppy or Slippy and they are kinda the P3 and P4 characters of their respective games. Sakurai in the past has mocked the character. Yes I know his importance and popularity has grown, but will Sakurai see that? Its his baby after all.

I guess Toad would be another good comparison sinces hes definetaly been the P4 character of recent co-op Mario games. However he's starred in his own game so I feel this puts him much higher up on the list.

 

[Deleted member]

Can you all give @NonSpecificGuy some slack please? At least respond more nicer. NonSpecificGuy says he is stressed, lets all be friends instead of causing more argument.

...

You know, now that I think about it, Birdo is probably the most recognizable transgender character in gaming...

Huh....

It is weird indeed... I am surprised that moms did not complain at all.
Looks like Birdo can continue to be transgender though.

Honestly Laura Croft would be unexpected yet pretty cool in my book.
She is one of the most iconic women in gaming.

 

[Deleted member]

...

You know, now that I think about it, Birdo is probably the most recognizable transgender character in gaming...

Huh....

What about Poison?

 

[Deleted member]

What about Poison?

Who is that even?

I think Birdo is the most recognizable trans-gender character.
Also Birdo has a ring... she either bought it or she is engaged with someone....

Lets not get too much into this.

I we get an ARMS stage, we better get Dr. Coyle's theme in it.

Oooo.. I like where this is going.
Maybe Dr. Coyle can be a boss in one of the stages!

 

[Pakky]

Oooo.. I like where this is going.
Maybe Dr. Coyle can be a boss in one of the stages!

Add her to the roster please! She's like the most important character in the game.

She pretty much made most of the cast and the final boss.

 

[Deleted member]

Who is that even?

An enemy from the Final Fight series who's also playable in a few Street Fighter games.

 

[MrReyes96]

If we get an ARMS stage it should have fans in the audience that dress like the smashers, just like in ARMS

 

[viewtifulduck82]

I will be honestly shocked if chibi robo doesn't make it for smash 5. Is that such a weird thought to have?

 

[kylexv]

I don't keep up with Pokemon, but is this suppose to be a new generation of Pokemon coming:

New Pokemon The Movie: Everyone’s Story trailer arriving soon with unrevealed Pokemon https://t.co/gaM39qkAPr pic.twitter.com/l4CCA7iQeW

— Nintendo Everything (@NinEverything) April 6, 2018

Or are more 7th generation Pokemon supposed to be revealed?

This one hasn't been revealed yet

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

I'd be cool with a new Mother rep; and I'd be down for Ninten or Flint specifically.

Ah, memories of pre-Brawl animations.

I don't keep up with Pokemon, but is this suppose to be a new generation of Pokemon coming:

New Pokemon The Movie: Everyone’s Story trailer arriving soon with unrevealed Pokemon https://t.co/gaM39qkAPr pic.twitter.com/l4CCA7iQeW

— Nintendo Everything (@NinEverything) April 6, 2018

Or are more 7th generation Pokemon supposed to be revealed?

It's going to be the remaining Mythical for the 7th Gen, Zeraora.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I wonder how a Ninten moveset would work without cloning Ness or Lucas in any way.

Not saying it can't be done, just have no clue where to begin.

It'd probably be in between Ness and Lucas. PK Beam would replace PK Fire, and he wouldn't have a Yo-Yo, since they don't exist in EarthBound Beginnings. Maybe Rising PK Flash & PSI Vacuum could be worked in.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Ah, memories of pre-Brawl animations.

Now that's some nostalgia.

Nidorina for Smash!

 

[New_Dumal]

Skyward Sword showed a lot of skills/weapons that could be implemented, but they still had his regular/classic moveset.
I'm aware that Sakurai is not (at least wasn't) a fan of changing a lot into a moveset, since he feels that people likes to know their moveset from game to game.
So I think that Link fate is : Or he keep his moveset with minimum changes, or become a completely different character.
If he wants to build a BotW Link and keep the classic moveset only for Toon Link, is something I would not like but understand.
It's a "clone" less for us to complain too. It's a smart move because people would not recognize his moveset and be curious about Breath of the Wild (as a game). Also, is giving Zelda a "newcomer" without giving Zelda a newcomer.

I think Zelda representation in Smash is perfect (character-wise).
I personally think that to add something from a specific game would be weird.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think Zelda representation in Smash is perfect (character-wise).
I personally think that to add something from a specific game would be weird.

Elephant in the Room that needs adressed:

 

[Deleted member]

People bring up the idea of a "Labo Man" based on one of the cutouts used for the monster shooting game, but after some thought, I really think the Labo Robot would be a better option.

Especially if there's a reference to how Labo works with a generic kid in the background ala Pokémon Trainer that's controlling the Robot with their Robot Kit.

Spoiler: Other Examples

 

[-crump-]

People bring up the idea of a "Labo Man" based on one of the cutouts used for the monster shooting game, but after some thought, I really think the Labo Robot would be a better option.

Especially if there's a reference to how Labo works with a generic kid in the background ala Pokémon Trainer that's controlling the Robot with their Robot Kit.

Spoiler: Other Examples

YES. I don’t understand the hype behind “Laboman” at all, but I would be 1000% down for a heavyweight brawler robot.

At least this thing has roots going back to Miyamoto’s cancelled Wii U game, Project Giant Robot, whereas the other Labo ideas are just taking random cardboard and putting it in Smash.

 

[CBO0tz]

I wonder how a Ninten moveset would work without cloning Ness or Lucas in any way.

Not saying it can't be done, just have no clue where to begin.

I made one not too long ago. It's kinda hard not to re-use Ness' stuff, since he looks just like Ness, but I did manage to give him unique special moves.

Up-B: 4th-D Slip (would basically work like Zelda's teleport)

Down-B: PSI Shield (Would be a large circular shield the size of PSI Magnet, deflects a certain amount of projectiles before breaking, but can be charged to be made stronger)

Forward-B: Hypnosis (basically works like Mewtwo's Disable)

Neutral-B: Quick-Up (Increases both all his attack speeds, and his walk/run speed, requires a long time to charge)

EDIT: I'm also curious what kinds of changes BOTW Zelda would have.

 

[Pakky]

Elephant in the Room that needs adressed:

Replace her with Impa she's done more than her and has been in more games. And as far as I can see they're kind of the same thing. Though Impa from HW and SWS does more energy and water stuff.

Spoiler: Big o'l context