Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

I will say this again, unless you can argue that a BOTW newcomer will bring in a significant amount of sales, it does not need to be in Smash. No matter what they bring, no matter how awesome the character might be, if they cannot be a draw towards the next Smash game, then it’s silly to claim we need them. In fact, if you cut around half of the roster, there would still be virtually no impact on sales.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t get one, let alone saying they are bad ideas, but I wish people would be more hesitant to throw the word “need” around. Of the prospective newcomers, no one is going to be consequential towards adding adding sales in Smash.

Even if I can't prove it with real numbers, I think it should go without saying that adding (or cutting) certain characters will attract the attention of consumers from a specific demographic. In this argument's case, a character from BotW might attract a few of the millions of people who bought and played BotW. "If you enjoyed playing BotW, then you'll love Smash Bros for Switch! Play as Link, Zelda, and the brand new fighter, (insert Champion)!".

This is a tactic many different companies use. If there's something popular that lots of people like and recognize, then they'll try to tie in that certain thing with other products so they'll make more money. It's one of the reasons why so many companies that sell food want to get Frozen characters on the front of their packages. A kid is more likely to buy their product if they can relate it to the extremely overrated movie that they really like.


I'm not saying that an additional Zelda character is needed, but I do wish people would stop acting like adding a newer Zelda character is completely "unnecessary". The franchise is extremely iconic, and even if the Zelda character Sakurai would add doesn't attract many new fans, they couldn't be any worse than a character from a much more niche franchise.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Seems a lot of debate comes back to one point: Where on the dev morality axis Sakurai lies between "business & Art" and "please crowd & do own thing".

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The Champions are the weakest one-shot characters that we've had as potential fighters in Smash, none of them stand out amongst the others and none of them get a huge amount of screentime either. BotW more than any other Zelda game has its focus on Link and Zelda, particularly the latter, so despite all its success I think it's for the best if all it gets is updated designs for Link and Zelda + a stage, items, trophies, etc.

I'm just going to echo the sentiment that Zelda is absolutely fine as is, it's not underrepresented when the options are as thin as they are, although it's worth remembering that being well represented doesn't necessarily stop a series from getting anymore characters. I'd love Skull Kid, I think he's by far the most iconic of the one-shot characters in the series, but even he is incredibly unlikely.

 

[Troykv]

I wonder how a character with a Special Attack that interact different when is used in team allies would work.

That is the small interesting thought that I think some times when I'm brain storming about other ideas with Micaiah's moveset.

Sacrifice is one of Micaiah's signature skills after all.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Toon Zelda in Smash would really irk me. Multiples Links and now multiple Zeldas? No. That'd be an even more insult to the series representation.

You could have Impa, Ghirahim or even Skull Kid, uniquely apart and worthy candidates.

So you're problem is that there are multiple characters that share the bloodline of the most important character of the universe. And your solution is to instead add way less popular one-off characters???

How is that an insult to add the characters that are actually popular and prominent in the series? I mean, I guess it's an insult to a cynical fanboy, but it's not an insult to The Legend of Zelda.

There's literally ZERO similarities between ANY of these characters. They don't even share the same NAME and none of them are the same person. And all three of these characters are just as unique if not more unique than the ones you suggested.

It's not an insult at all. Like it's OBJECTIVELY not an insult in any way. Quite the opposite. It's a COMPLIMENT.

 

[Curious Villager]

I think I would prefer to see the Champions be used as the next Snake codec's/Palutena's guidance. Voice acting in Zelda was a pretty big deal in Breath of the Wild and I think the Champions would shine the most in that regard.

Or maybe I just want to see Revali having a kocky banter with Falco....

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

The Champions are the weakest one-shot characters that we've had as potential fighters in Smash, none of them stand out amongst the others and none of them get a huge amount of screentime either. BotW more than any other Zelda game has its focus on Link and Zelda, particularly the latter, so despite all its success I think it's for the best if all it gets is updated designs for Link and Zelda + a stage, items, trophies, etc.

I'm just going to echo the sentiment that Zelda is absolutely fine as is, it's not underrepresented when the options are as thin as they are, although it's worth remembering that being well represented doesn't necessarily stop a series from getting anymore characters. I'd love Skull Kid, I think he's by far the most iconic of the one-shot characters in the series, but even he is incredibly unlikely.

I guess the issue with the "Zelda is fine as is" logic is that, by that logic, every big Nintendo franchise in Smash is already fine. I made a post that got buried on the previous page about this, but Zelda has some options that are just as good, if not better than, many options who are highly requested or seen as likely. Is Zelda properly represented? Yeah, probably. But that shouldn't necessarily harm the opportunity for a new character, especially in this era of Smash where every big franchise already has their most important characters. That's how I see it, anyway.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It's almost as if the series is about Zelda. Like what is the detriment to having multiple ancestors that are 100% different and not even the same person or name?

 

[Pakky]

Why not Impa and Tingle though?


Tingle is great because he's weird in a lot of Zelda games and has his own game.

Impa I thinks IS in every game.

 

[Arcadenik]

Can we just have a noncanonical Zelda fighting game that is like those SNK Neo Geo fighting games?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I guess the issue with the "Zelda is fine as is" logic is that, by that logic, every big Nintendo franchise in Smash is already fine. I made a post that got buried on the previous page about this, but Zelda has some options that are just as good, if not better than, many options who are highly requested or seen as likely. Is Zelda properly represented? Yeah, probably. But that shouldn't necessarily harm the opportunity for a new character, especially in this era of Smash where every big franchise already has their most important characters. That's how I see it, anyway.

If we wanna talk about series that are fine as they are

• Mario
• Donkey Kong
• Kirby
• Metroid

And yet the same people are clamoring for King K. Rool, and Ridley, and Waddle Dee.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

If we wanna talk about series that are fine as they are

• Mario
• Donkey Kong
• Kirby
• Metroid

And yet the same people are clamoring for King K. Rool, and Ridley, and Waddle Dee.

And you could add Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing to that list.

Just for clarification, I do want characters from the above listed games. But the way people speculate characters for those games is a great example as to why we should not write off the possibility of a Zelda newcomer.

 

[Arcadenik]

If we wanna talk about series that are fine as they are

• Mario
• Donkey Kong
• Kirby
• Metroid

And yet the same people are clamoring for King K. Rool, and Ridley, and Waddle Dee, and Captain Toad.

There you go.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Random idea for repping Zelda in Smash V:

Link
- Gets updated with BotW moves, essentially a newcomer

Toon Link
- Moderate moveset tweaks (new special or two from DS games), gets outset clothes as alt costume

Dark Link (New)
- One of the unused, distinct, recurring characters in the series
- Gets Link's current moveset

Zelda
- Buffs and alt costume from BotW

Sheik
- BotW visual update

Ganondorf
- Moderate moveset tweaks (new special or two)

This seems like a way to get a little new blood in without being an unrealistic departure from the way the series has been handled thus far.

Scale of 1-10, how angry-happy are people?

 

[Starcutter]

While I still think we will get a BOTW character (who it will be I have literally no idea, it could be the king for all I know) I DON'T THINK it would be for sales. In fact, if they just use Link and Zelda's BOTW designs and market the **** out of them I think it would draw the same crowd that just got a switch for Zelda anyways, without explicitly having a newcomer from BOTW.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

And you could add Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing to that list.

Just for clarification, I do want characters from the above listed games. But the way people speculate characters for those games is a great example as to why we should not write off the possibility of a Zelda newcomer.

All the "needed" characters have already been in by this point (and I'd argue it was by Brawl)

 

[Sonic Poke]

If we are getting a playable Impa, I'd rather have her as the old version of the character, perhaps from a Link Between Worlds or Oracle of Ages. We already have a sheikah warrior, I want something more unique.

 

[MrReyes96]

Random idea for repping Zelda in Smash V:

Link
- Gets updated with BotW moves, essentially a newcomer

Toon Link
- Moderate moveset tweaks (new special or two from DS games), gets outset clothes as alt costume

Dark Link (New)
- One of the unused, distinct, recurring characters in the series
- Gets Link's current moveset

Zelda
- Buffs and alt costume from BotW

Sheik
- BotW visual update

Ganondorf
- Moderate moveset tweaks (new special or two)

This seems like a way to get a little new blood in without being an unrealistic departure from the way the series has been handled thus far.

Scale of 1-10, how angry-happy are people?

If you thought the reactions to dark Pit were bad imagine if they did they with a character that wasn’t even an actual character

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm sorry for being so aggressive earlier. It's just insane the kind of stuff people complain about.

Four characters. None of them the same person. None of them the same name. None of them the same form or design. None of them the same abilities.

And somehow that's an insult because they are all related by blood and share the same alias. But, adding way less popular one off characters. THAT'S not an insult?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

All the "needed" characters have already been in by this point (and I'd argue it was by Brawl)

That's what I've been saying

 

[TheLastJinjo]

All the "needed" characters have already been in by this point (and I'd argue it was by Brawl)

After Brawl, I couldn't even think of anyone to add.

 

[Cosmic77]

The Champions are the weakest one-shot characters that we've had as potential fighters in Smash, none of them stand out amongst the others and none of them get a huge amount of screentime either. BotW more than any other Zelda game has its focus on Link and Zelda, particularly the latter, so despite all its success I think it's for the best if all it gets is updated designs for Link and Zelda + a stage, items, trophies, etc.

In comparison to other big Zelda characters from different games, yes, the Champions didn't have nearly as much screentime or as big of a role.

Still, that doesn't change the fact that they hail from one of the most successful Zelda games and that each one has their own unique personality and backstory. Most of the memories revolve around Zelda, but the biggest chunk of the game involves the four Champions and freeing their Divine Beasts. Without the involvement of the Champions, there's not really much to BotW's story.

Not everyone connected with the Champions (particularly longtime Zelda fans), and that perfectly fine. But you have to remember that this game introduced the both the Switch and the Zelda series to a lot of people. I really connected with the Champions, and I'm sure plenty of people who finally gave Nintendo a chance after years of PlayStation and Xbox, picked up a Switch within its launch year, and made BotW their first game connected with them too. Each Champion has clear moveset potential, so if Sakurai wants to add one, I'd gladly take them over not getting anyone new at all.

 

[MrReyes96]

After Brawl, I couldn't even think of anyone to add.

I’d say villager was the only one that was sorely missing
Same thing with inklings in smash 4

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I guess the issue with the "Zelda is fine as is" logic is that, by that logic, every big Nintendo franchise in Smash is already fine. I made a post that got buried on the previous page about this, but Zelda has some options that are just as good, if not better than, many options who are highly requested or seen as likely. Is Zelda properly represented? Yeah, probably. But that shouldn't necessarily harm the opportunity for a new character, especially in this era of Smash where every big franchise already has their most important characters. That's how I see it, anyway.

Obviously most franchises are well represented at this stage, we've been through four games afterall, but I also think it's a question of how important any potential character is to their own series. Zelda isn't exactly missing characters that bear the same weight to its own franchise as a lot of other franchises currently are, in that regard it doesn't have anyone that can square up to the likes of Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Isabelle, Rex/Elma, or even someone like Waluigi or Toad, for most of the Zelda options we're looking at Dark Samus and Krystal type of characters.

I do think it's a decent point mind you, and I imagine it's going to be an often discussed subject for Smash 6, but I don't think we're quite at the point yet where every established franchise are just looking to get bonus characters basically. Like I said before, this doesn't mean that a Zelda newcomer can't happen for Smash 5 though, If Sakurai sees potential in one of the candidates he'll absolutely go for it, but it just means that if the series goes without a newcomer I doubt there'd be any kind of uproar.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

After Brawl, I couldn't even think of anyone to add.

Brawl had my favourite newcomer roster by far, and it's not solely because they added my favourite video game character ,
It also had a lot of great additions besides him (and I also like the huge visual diversity).

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Haven't been keeping up, have I missed any rad leaks

 

[Cosmic77]

Brawl had my favourite newcomer roster by far, and it's not solely because they added my favourite video game character ,
It also had a lot of great additions besides him (and I also like the huge visual diversity).

That's something I can agree with. Nearly every existing franchise from Melee got a rep, and we got some nice new series added on the roster as well ().

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Obviously most franchises are well represented at this stage, we've been through four games afterall, but I also think it's a question of how important any potential character is to their own series. Zelda isn't exactly missing characters that bear the same weight to its own franchise as a lot of other franchises currently are, in that regard it doesn't have anyone that can square up to the likes of Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Isabelle, Rex/Elma, or even someone like Waluigi or Toad, for most of the Zelda options we're looking at Dark Samus and Krystal type of characters.

I do think it's a decent point mind you, and I imagine it's going to be an often discussed subject for Smash 6, but I don't think we're quite at the point yet where every established franchise are just looking to get bonus characters basically. Like I said before, this doesn't mean that a Zelda newcomer can't happen for Smash 5 though, If Sakurai sees potential in one of the candidates he'll absolutely go for it, but it just means that if the series goes without one I don't think anyone would bat an eye.

I mean people will DEFINITELY be upset if there isn't a Zelda newcomer, I just don't think it'll be centralized on one particular Zelda character. The thing for a Zelda newcomer is that Zelda fans will, for the most part, be happy with literally any new Zelda character. It doesn't have to Midna, it doesn't have to be Skull Kid. I think what really matters to most people is that the series just doesn't get stuck with the same cast again. That raises its own set of issues, but they're certainly issues that can be worked around.

 

[Pakky]

Random idea for repping Zelda in Smash V:

Link
- Gets updated with BotW moves, essentially a newcomer

Toon Link
- Moderate moveset tweaks (new special or two from DS games), gets outset clothes as alt costume

Dark Link (New)
- One of the unused, distinct, recurring characters in the series
- Gets Link's current moveset

Zelda
- Buffs and alt costume from BotW

Sheik
- BotW visual update

Ganondorf
- Moderate moveset tweaks (new special or two)

This seems like a way to get a little new blood in without being an unrealistic departure from the way the series has been handled thus far.

Scale of 1-10, how angry-happy are people?

7

Dark Link over Impa?

Same old fat smelly captain Falnondorf!



No thanks. I mean why does Zelda get pooped on so much?

 

[Starcutter]

If we wanna talk about series that are fine as they are

• Mario
• Donkey Kong
• Kirby
• Metroid

And yet the same people are clamoring for King K. Rool, and Ridley, and Waddle Dee.

I think you are doubting the latter three. I always feel like a series is well rounded out when it has a notable villain, and Kirby, Donkey Kong and Metroid all lack their big villains. Kirby is more debatable since it's not really a single villain for that series, but I think the closest thing to the "main" villain is Dark Matter. Even so, Marx would also fit this role. (If you know about Kirby, Dedede has only been an outright villain in the first game, most of the other times you fight him he is possessed by Dark Matter or there's a misunderstanding. Meta Knight isn't really a villain either, more of a friendly rival, other than one time in Super Star)

I can understand where you are coming from with Kirby since most people misunderstand and think Dedede is the vilian of the series, but I have no idea what you are saying about DK and Metroid. Both of them don't have anyone outside of two characters. Metroid even has 2 versions of the same character. There's a reason Ridley is so popular.

I think an addition of a single main villain from all three of these series will complete their Smash roster.


Mario 100% is fine as it is now.

 

[kylexv]

Haven't been keeping up, have I missed any rad leaks

Other than that Marcus Sellers "leak" that was proven fake a few days ago, no.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Why would they make Toon Zelda unique if they won't make Toon Link unique? Doesn't make much sense. Just because you can make a character unique doesn't mean they will be unique.

When Sheik was added, it was alongside Zelda as two characters together who share the same spot on the select screen. The reason it's not weird that we have Sheik is because she's a popular veteran and because she and Zelda are the same person.

So it's not a fair argument to bring up Sheik. THAT'S the elephant in the room.


It's clear from the trailer that she's in the game. But, there's no reason Impa can't be a costume character like Alph. Besides, Sheik is more popular than Impa. A lot of people would be mad if she was just replaced.

They aren't going to make Impa a costume of Sheik. If Sakurai wouldn't let Lucina and Dark Pit be costumes there is no way Impa would be one. There is a difference in height like with Lucina and Marth and it wouldn't make sense for Impa to use light arrows, like how it didn't make sense for Dark Pit to use the 3 Sacred Treasures.

She could theoretically work as a clone, but she probably has a higher chance of being unique than Toon Zelda does.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Obviously most franchises are well represented at this stage, we've been through four games afterall, but I also think it's a question of how important any potential character is to their own series. Zelda isn't exactly missing characters that bear the same weight to its own franchise as a lot of other franchises currently are, in that regard it doesn't have anyone that can square up to the likes of Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Isabelle, Rex/Elma, or even someone like Waluigi or Toad, for most of the Zelda options we're looking at Dark Samus and Krystal type of characters.

I do think it's a decent point mind you, and I imagine it's going to be an often discussed subject for Smash 6, but I don't think we're quite at the point yet where every established franchise are just looking to get bonus characters basically. Like I said before, this doesn't mean that a Zelda newcomer can't happen for Smash 5 though, but it just means that if it goes without one I don't think anyone would bat an eye.

I think you've gotten that backwards. Toon Zelda and Tetra have actually been a big part of the Zelda games in recent years.

• Phantom Hourglass
• Spirit Tracks
• The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Anniversary Edition
• Wind Waker HD
• Hyrule Warriors/Legends
• Hyrule Warriors: Definitive Edition

King K. Rool has yet to make any appearances since 2008. Zelda plays just as important as a role in the Toon games as she does in any game. She's definitely not a "Dark Samus" or "Krystal" type character and neither is Tetra.

 

[Troykv]

I mean people will DEFINITELY be upset if there isn't a Zelda newcomer, I just don't think it'll be centralized on one particular Zelda character. The thing for a Zelda newcomer is that Zelda fans will, for the most part, be happy with literally any new Zelda character. It doesn't have to Midna, it doesn't have to be Skull Kid. I think what really matters to most people is that the series just doesn't get stuck with the same cast again. That raises its own set of issues, but they're certainly issues that can be worked around.

Unless that character is Tingle (at least in AMERICA).

 

[Pakky]

Unless that character is Tingle (at least in AMERICA).

pfft the US and their chessburgers, am I right?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

They aren't going to make Impa a costume of Sheik. If Sakurai wouldn't let Lucina and Dark Pit be costumes there is no way Impa would be one. There is a difference in height like with Lucina and Marth and it wouldn't make sense for Impa to use light arrows, like how it didn't make sense for Dark Pit to use the 3 Sacred Treasures.

She could theoretically work as a clone, but she probably has a higher chance of being unique than Toon Zelda does.

I'm pretty sure Sheik and Impa are the same height and the Light Arrow is not an ability exclusive to Zelda. Even Link can use it.

 

[Deleted member]

Why not Impa and Tingle though?


Tingle is great because he's weird in a lot of Zelda games and has his own game.

Impa I thinks IS in every game.

Tingle is almost universally hated, to the point where 2/3 of his spin-off games never left Japan (and one was only localized in Europe), so I doubt he'll be leaving that Assist Trophy capsule anytime soon.

As for Impa, she's not in every game, though she is one of the most recurring characters left. It's just that her appearances throughout the series have been very inconsistent (from an elderly woman in most outings to a ninja in OoT/SS to a samurai in HW), so you have one group wanting a Sheik clone based on her depiction in OoT or SS while the other prefers the non-canon HW incarnation (which would be cool, actually).

 

[Rockaphin]

Villager should've been in Brawl IMO. His/Her exclusion was odd to me seeing how popular the series was and the potential the character had.

But then again, what's "needed from a series" is somewhat subjective in the first place. Personally, I believe a series with more than one character in Smash should have the protagonist and the antagonist if said antagonist plays a heavy role (EX: Bowser, Ganondorf, King K. Rool, etc...). Again, it's a subjective topic.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I disagree that fans would be happy with "literally any Zelda character". And it wouldn't be an argument if it was. The fans would be happy with all kinds of stupid ideas.

And being the next most recurring character doesn't mean anything if it's not a popular character. Like Leif for example.

 

[Pakky]

As for Impa, she's not in every game, though she is one of the most recurring characters left. It's just that her appearances throughout the series have been very inconsistent (from an elderly woman in most outings to a ninja in OoT/SS to a samurai in HW), so you have one group wanting a Sheik clone based on her depiction in OoT or SS while the other prefers the non-canon HW incarnation (which would be cool, actually).

Why mot just a big ol' amalgamate?

Sheik's set comes from nothing and the MOTHER boys are amalgamates.

Just throw all the Impas in the pot and make a fine new character stew.