Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Can someone give me a quick reminder of how many veterans are left to go on the website in terms of blog updates now?

I know there's not many left now.

Haven't done this in a while since I didn't really need to look at patterns much, but....

Week 1
Week 2
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Week 11
Week 12
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Week 14
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Week 25
Week 26 (Week of release)

Characters yet to be on the Blog:


Three full weeks worth of veterans plus Piranha Plant, who may be featured closer to its release.

 

[RyuhoFox]

I can't wait for people to say stuff like this during Smash 6 speculation alongside the inevitable hate I'll get for telling people that likely won't happen (assuming I even come back for Smash 6 speculation lol).

Im just confused as to why we started to only count completely unique characters as new characters. Even the cloniest clones were still counted as characters in previous games but because of a name change for this game they suddenly stopped counting for some people. Like Richter, he would be considered a new character regardless(outside a fringe group) no matter how much of a clone he was but because he is now labeled slightly differently he suddenly doesnt count.

I don't get this.

 

[Luigi The President]

I think it’s just that Zelda is on the same levels of Mario and Pokemon in popularity and it doesn’t have the diversity in characters. Sure they got assists and stages, but having atleast one non-triforce wielder would be nice. As for Fire Emblem they do have stuff like 3 characters from one game (Chrom, Robin, and Lucina), and I feel that it’s lucky to have the representation in characters it has right now. Mother is more than the main characters but it’s a small franchise, the most well ever get out of that is Ninten or Pokey if we’re ever lucky. It doesn’t really need too much to represent in characters in my opinion.

"Zelda is on the same levels of Mario and Pokemon in popularity" excuse me what. No. This just isn't true.

 

[KiBom]

I suspect to reach elite Smash battles relatively quickly. I've been a tourney-goer since 2007, met and fought against many people all over the world, and used to be top 3 ranked in Alberta for Smash 4. And Brawl around the bottom half of the PR most of the time but hey.

Hopefully elite battles have a good structure.

I'm planning on going to locals come ultimate. Hopefully have the chance to get thrashed by you.

 

[Link from Popstar County]

It does annoy me that all of the playable characters from Zelda are some iteration of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf.

I wish that they included at least one one-off character (Midna, Skull Kid, Ghirahim) into the playable roster.

At the very least they could've added in Impa, who could've been an echo and is arguably the most important character to the series after the Triforce trio.

But in the end, I can see why Sakurai limited the Zelda roster to those three.. even though I don't agree with it.

I'd like to see a mash-up of all the Ganondorf illusions, with Agahnim pulling the strings.

 

[osby]

Im just confused as to why we started to only count completely unique characters as new characters. Even the cloniest clones were still counted as characters in previous games but because of a name change for this game they suddenly stopped counting for some people. Like Richter, he would be considered a new character regardless(outside a fringe group) no matter how much of a clone he was but because he is now labeled slightly differently he suddenly doesnt count.

I don't get this.

Not really. A lot of people used to omit Melee clones/Dark Pit, Lucina when talking about unique newcomers.

Apart from that, people finally got clones take less effort than unique newcomers thanks to their new names. It only took 17 years. Who said Smash fandom is slow?

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

To anyone who has had the pleasure of playing Ultimate, did any of you play it with Joy Cons perhaps?

What the hell is that experience like because I can't image it's a pleasant one, and right now I just realized I have no Gamecube Controllers that are actually gonna work most likely.

I played it with a pro controller and I liked it a lot. I don't have one yet, so I think I'll buy one of the Smash-themed ones. Only like five bucks more I think.

 

[Idon]

Im just confused as to why we started to only count completely unique characters as new characters. Even the cloniest clones were still counted as characters in previous games but because of a name change for this game they suddenly stopped counting for some people. Like Richter, he would be considered a new character regardless(outside a fringe group) no matter how much of a clone he was but because he is now labeled slightly differently he suddenly doesnt count.

I don't get this.

No one's saying they're not "new" characters, technically. It's just they're far less interesting or wild as someone that's completely different in appearance and moveset. (And before you say it, yeah, some people feel differently about that, yadda yadda subjective opinions).
You could add 200 Mario echoes or clones that would play nigh identical with maybe a negligible change here and there, but that doesn't hold as much interest as even a roster of 10 characters.

Similarly a game like Dragonball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3 has 98 characters with 161 forms total. 161 playable characters aaaaaand 80% of them recycle the same moves, so no one really finds that impressive at all.

 

[Kuraudo]

Yeah but Young Link doesn't even represent Majora's Mask at all.
Gimme my MM gear, Sakurai. Without it he's just OoT Young Link.

Yeah, although the fact he came with a Great Bay stage and his neutral B is the Fire Arrows he obtains in Majora's Mask, it's why I added the nod to that game for Young Link.

 

[Knight Dude]

Please for the love of God don't put Bubsy in Smash

Reminder that Bubsy deserves a spot in Smash

Fur real though, Bubsy is the purr-fect candidate for DLC. His moveset pawsibilities are endless, and combine that with his pawsitively hiss-terical purrsonality, you'd be kitten yourself if you said he doesn't deserve the spawt.

ok I'm done now.

There's two kinds of people.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

But that’s the thing, there’s even a couple not-1-off recurring characters that are pretty iconic to the franchise they could pull from too, like Tingle, the Great Fairy, and Impa. I’m still holding out hope we get something for dlc, it’s not super likely but I would love it.

All of those characters are better represented as assist trophies or stage elements though. They're all flavor of the week characters, and have little lasting popularity outside of the window of their game's relevance. Skull Kid is an interesting exception, but his popularity was only boosted after loz18 opened his ***** mouth contrary to what many might tell you.

Not just that, I kinda wish the Zelda reps we did have did more things unique to their games, like Young Link and Majora's Mask or Toon Link and Wind Waker. Hell, even Ganondorf doesn't do anything from OoT, sword or not.

I mean, just look at Hyrule Warriors and practically every single character, even the one-time nobodies has a cool, flashy, and interesting moveset. If Nintendo could just rip that off those concepts if just a little, I'd be pretty happy.

I feel like this is a more valid complaint. As of right now we have three different Links and all of them act similarly. I guarantee you that if Young Link had a moveset revolving around masks and Toon Link had a moveset revolving around the Wind Waker we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It comes down to unique representation really; as it stands right now the Legend of Zelda series is one of the best represented series in Smash Bros. with characters, stages, items, and assist trophies spanning the entire series, and yet all people seem to care about is the characters.

 

[Zinith]

There's two kinds of people.

Hey, that's the official slogan of Yoshi's Slave Dungeo-- err, Fan Club

 

[RyuhoFox]

Not really. A lot of people used to omit Melee clones/Dark Pit, Lucina when talking about unique newcomers.

Apart from that, people finally got clones take less effort than unique newcomers thanks to their new names. It only took 17 years. Who said Smash fandom is slow?

Most places I was around would treat those people like the idiots if they omitted them like that. Also puts a major damper on the whole "omgerd guyz FE has so many characters!" complaints when they go on to omit clones or echoes as actual characters.

I don't think I have even seen a single fighting game community outside Smash treat clones as if they didn't exist on the roster at all. Which is especially weird as we have several different terms for how cloned they are. We put in a lot of discussion time on them, treat them like they don't exist on the roster, and then complain when they don't come back in other games.

This fanbase confuses me sometimes.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

At what point would you be annoyed that we haven’t heard anything from Nintendo on the actual DLC characters? It seems people are antsy with the VGAs, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we don’t hear anything until around piranha plant’s release.

 

[osby]

All of those characters are better represented as assist trophies or stage elements though. They're all flavor of the week characters, and have little lasting popularity outside of the window of their game's relevance. Skull Kid is an interesting exception, but his popularity was only boosted after loz18 opened his ***** mouth contrary to what many might tell you.

I feel like this is a more valid complaint. As of right now we have three different Links and all of them act similarly. I guarantee you that if Young Link had a moveset revolving around masks and Toon Link had a moveset revolving around the Wind Waker we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Eh, to be honest if had unique movesets... well, they wouldn't be in the game at all.

Personally I'm okay with Toon Link, since his inclusion brings one of the most famous art direction in Zelda with him, destroying any arguments of "not visually distinct" that people love to hold against Fire Emblem.

Most places I was around would treat those people like the idiots if they omitted them like that. Also puts a major damper on the whole "omgerd guyz FE has so many characters!" complaints when they go on to omit clones or echoes as actual characters.

I don't think I have even seen a single fighting game community outside Smash treat clones as if they didn't exist on the roster at all. Which is especially weird as we have several different terms for how cloned they are. We put in a lot of discussion time on them, treat them like they don't exist on the roster, and then complain when they don't come back in other games.

This fanbase confuses me sometimes.

Clones only count when FE and KI have them.


Anyway, I need to leave for an exam, so let's continue this later. Wish me luck! or don't

 

[Knight Dude]

That said, I won't mind echoes as DLC(likely separate from the Fighters Pass, given Sakurai's statements. If they ever get added at all) if they follow a couple of things.

1. They are cheaper to get than normal characters.

2. Said echoes that are as different from their source as Ken is from Ryu.

 

[Idon]

Yeah, although the fact he came with a Great Bay stage and his neutral B is the Fire Arrows he obtains in Majora's Mask, it's why I added the nod to that game for Young Link.

Yeah but even then, we have stages for characters that aren't there, and OoT Link also had fire arrows.
There's nothing about Link himself that says "Oh yeah, that's from MM" which is a shame, since the easiest thing they could've done is just model swap some MM equipment on him.

 

[osby]

That said, I won't mind echoes as DLC(likely separate from the Fighters Pass, given Sakurai's statements. If they ever get added at all) if they follow a couple of things.

1. They are cheaper to get than normal characters.

2. Said echoes that are as different from their source as Ken is from Ryu.

There won't be DLC echoes.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Eh, to be honest if had unique movesets... well, they wouldn't be in the game at all.

Personally I'm okay with Toon Link, since his inclusion brings one of the most famous art direction in Zelda with him, destroying any arguments of "not visually distinct" that people love to hold against Fire Emblem.



Clones only count when FE and KI have them.


Anyway, I need to leave for an exam, so let's continue this later. Wish me luck! or don't

Guess that means Imma need that Magnus echo fighter of

 

[Noipoi]

I've been playing Let's Go Pikachu all day, it's both better and worse than I expected.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Knight Dude]

There won't be DLC echoes.

I know, I said IF, if it was outside the Fighter's Pass. Which I know isn't happening. But the topic was thrown in earlier and I threw in my two cents.

 

[Idon]

I feel like this is a more valid complaint. As of right now we have three different Links and all of them act similarly. I guarantee you that if Young Link had a moveset revolving around masks and Toon Link had a moveset revolving around the Wind Waker we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It comes down to unique representation really; as it stands right now the Legend of Zelda series is one of the best represented series in Smash Bros. with characters, stages, items, and assist trophies spanning the entire series, and yet all people seem to care about is the characters.

Honestly, I'm fine with the Link clones as a concept. They're the same spirit of a character across multiple timelines and such or whatever and they provide an alternate take on an existing concept, I just wish there was more added ONTO them to make them more unique and representative of their game. Like say maybe throwing bombchus instead of bombs or unfurling a deku leaf after spinslashing.

And well, obviously people would place more importance on characters than they would on much else.
In a crossover mascot game, the characters you can control really take precedence over anything else since they are the ones most applicable to every sort of situation. You won't always play Skyloft, but if you're a dedicated whatever main, you'll be seeing them in ever instance where you would play.

 

[Grizzexploder]

I'd buy an Echoes DLC pack

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

I've been playing Let's Go Pikachu all day, it's both better and worse than I expected.

Did I miss anything?

I get the feeling you could play Pokémon for the next week and not miss anything.

 

[staindgrey]

i feel that master chief is somewhat "niche" outside of the US like... yeah.. i know he exists... but here at least halo doesn't seems to be that popular, even if the xbox have a good ammount of popularity :/

I'd hardly call him niche at all. Halo is to the west what Dragon Quest is to the east: a very influential, important part of gaming history that isn't nearly as stupidly popular internationally as in its home country.

Halo basically invented the modern FPS on consoles and established Xbox as a legitimate competitor to the Playstation and Nintendo brands. Master Chief is synonymous with Microsoft gaming just as Mario is with Nintendo. I, myself, am more of a Gears fan, but I can't deny the historical significance and general knowledge of Halo among gamers, both domestic and international. What hurts Chief in recent years, I think, is the relative decline of the Xbox brand since the XB1's terrible launch and the fact that Bungie moved on to create Halo-but-now-it's-a-shared-world-MMO-lite (Destiny).

 

[Noipoi]

I get the feeling you could play Pokémon for the next week and not miss anything.

It's the calm before the storm, mate. Three weeks before all Hell breaks loose in all it's glory.

 

[staindgrey]

There won't be DLC echoes.

Has that been absolutely established, or are we going off the Direct? Because it was stated that none of the fighters pass characters would be echoes.

It's reasonable to assume that there won't be DLC characters outside of the Fighters Pass, but unless it's explicitly stated, we can't completely rule out the possibility.

 

[staindgrey]

I've been playing Let's Go Pikachu all day, it's both better and worse than I expected.

Did I miss anything?

Right? I just got my copy a few hours ago.

It's ****ing charming as hell and adorable and I love it. At the same time, it's like playing tackle football against a team of toddlers and the only difficulty I've encountered was trying to catch a goddamn Beedrill. All my team is over lvl.10 already and I feel like I haven't done anything.

EDIT: Double post. I'm used to the thread moving faster.

 

[RyuhoFox]

Right? I just got my copy a few hours ago.

It's ****ing charming as hell and adorable and I love it. At the same time, it's like playing tackle football against a team of toddlers and the only difficulty I've encountered was trying to catch a goddamn Beedrill. All my team is over lvl.10 already and I feel like I haven't done anything.

EDIT: Double post. I'm used to the thread moving faster.

Misty's gym being full of swimmer type trainers is fun though. I won't be able to get a copy for a while though. Still deciding between Pikachu and Eevee. My boyfriend is getting Eevee so Pikachu would make sense to have a set but I want Eevee too.
Heard this was Masuda's last pokemon game though? That's really sad if true

 

[Noipoi]

Right? I just got my copy a few hours ago.

It's ****ing charming as hell and adorable and I love it. At the same time, it's like playing tackle football against a team of toddlers and the only difficulty I've encountered was trying to catch a goddamn Beedrill. All my team is over lvl.10 already and I feel like I haven't done anything.

EDIT: Double post. I'm used to the thread moving faster.

It's really strange.

It absolutely isn't gonna be anywhere near my top five, and I almost feel bad for steamrolling everyone, but there are some legitimately cool moments in the game, and it's really, really cute. My Pikachu should be in prison because it stole my heart. Twice.

 

[Idon]

I don't think I have even seen a single fighting game community outside Smash treat clones as if they didn't exist on the roster at all. Which is especially weird as we have several different terms for how cloned they are. We put in a lot of discussion time on them, treat them like they don't exist on the roster, and then complain when they don't come back in other games.

These are a lot of overgeneralizations.

Most other fighting games in this day and age have far more unique clones than Smash's echoes. If echoes were introduced to other fighting games, they would be talked about less than unique characters as well. That's human nature.
Clones in particular are counted by both the community and Sakurai given that they're numbered and talked about independently, the exception being echoes.
"We" don't do anything as "we" are all different people with how we view characters.
That said, nobody doesn't treat them like they don't exist on the roster.
Not everyone complains when they don't come back.

Stop trying to attack a made up amalgam of this "fanbase" and actually talk to people if you're so confused.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Yeah, but you see, that's why we have a social thread. Seriously, barely anyone uses this thread and it's the actual hangout thread. Not this one. If we're not talking about Ultimate then that's technically grounds for getting the thread locked or facing other personal repercussions.

Backseat modding aside, I do enjoy more peaceful periods such as this. I personally can't wait for the game to come out so that way I can play it with ya'll.

I mean, I at least try to keep my ****post related to Ultimate.

I'm still here because I want to talk about Ultimate, I just prefer to do it in a more relaxed way as opposed to having heated discussions all the time.

 

[Noipoi]

If I ever end up fighting one of you guys, I just want you to know.

You'll probably win.

 

[staindgrey]

It's really strange.

It absolutely isn't gonna be anywhere near my top five, and I almost feel bad for steamrolling everyone, but there are some legitimately cool moments in the game, and it's really, really cute. My Pikachu should be in prison because it stole my heart. Twice.

Yeah, I'm hoping the further in you get, the more difficulty you get. I knew going in that it was supposed to be easy and I enjoy some of the streamlined features, but I'm going to get bored soon if I don't get some sort of resistance. I've taken like 10hp in damage total through the first gym.

But I purchased it when I still had my Best Buy Gamers Club thing, so $48 is pretty acceptable for all the adorable things that can make a grown man go "d'awww" out loud in his living room. I'm just wondering if, once the newness wears off, I'll still want to finish the game or if I'll sell it while the price is still high.

 

[LetterO]

I found this tier list on 4chan.

Yeah, try telling me that R.O.B. Kills the Nintendo Universe isn't the actual Adventure Mode now, fellas.

 

[SonicMario]

Has that been absolutely established, or are we going off the Direct? Because it was stated that none of the fighters pass characters would be echoes.

It's reasonable to assume that there won't be DLC characters outside of the Fighters Pass, but unless it's explicitly stated, we can't completely rule out the possibility.

I do hope that it was indeed for just the fighter pass. Though the confusion might be is that the line "And I'm not talking about echo fighters" came before the Fighters pass. So for now it's just a little vague on whether Sakurai's statement meant ALL of the DLC for the entire time that there is character DLC or just the fighters pass.

A part of me feels like the amount of echo fighters we got in the base game was a sort of testing of the waters, and if Nintendo felt the reception was positive enough post-launch they'd gladly go to make more for free updates or at least for a cheaper price. Though for now just in case the reception to echo fighters still wasn't to their satisfaction, they had Sakurai reassure that none of the fighter pass characters would only be echoes.

 

[Noipoi]

Yeah, I'm hoping the further in you get, the more difficulty you get. I knew going in that it was supposed to be easy and I enjoy some of the streamlined features, but I'm going to get bored soon if I don't get some sort of resistance. I've taken like 10hp in damage total through the first gym.

But I purchased it when I still had my Best Buy Gamers Club thing, so $48 is pretty acceptable for all the adorable things that can make a grown man go "d'awww" out loud in his living room. I'm just wondering if, once the newness wears off, I'll still want to finish the game or if I'll sell it while the price is still high.

The best part is Smash is out soon so I don't have to dwell on whether this was worth 60$ for long.

 

[Zinith]

If I ever end up fighting one of you guys, I just want you to know.

You'll probably win.

You'd be surprised at how rusty I am at Smash

 

[Noipoi]

You'd be surprised at how rusty I am at Smash

We gotta get good, dude. I'm not trying to compete in any tournaments, but I really wanna be a good player this time around.

 

[staindgrey]

I do hope that it was indeed for just the fighter pass. Though the confusion might be is that the line "And I'm not talking about echo fighters" came before the Fighters pass. So for now it's just a little vague on whether Sakurai's statement meant ALL of the DLC for the entire time that there is character DLC or just the fighters pass.

A part of me feels like the amount of echo fighters we got in the base game was a sort of testing of the waters, and if Nintendo felt the reception was positive enough post-launch they'd gladly go to make more for free updates or at least for a cheaper price. Though for now just in case the reception to echo fighters still wasn't to their satisfaction, they had Sakurai reassure that none of the fighter pass characters would only be echoes.

Well, not putting echoes in the fighters pass and announcing as much before its release were smart moves regardless of their plans, or lack thereof, to add echoes as other DLC. It assures potential buyers that they won't be paying full price for a cloned character, making the asking price a more explicit value.

I wouldn't mind paying like $2-4 for an echo character if it were a character I liked. But if one had been included in the Fighters Pass and I purchased it, I'd be more than a little miffed.