Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kingslime304]

So when are you gonna tell him how you feel~

Dude, he's not cute, I prefer cute things thank you very much.

 

[Luigi The President]

They are irrelevant based on my definition. I don't think the average gamer would know who they are.

I put the quotes there because it's a subjective term in this context.

Okay. That was all I needed to know, that you meant the average gamer wouldn't know them.
I personally don't feel your argument stands as there are numerous Smash characters the average gamer doesn't know-like even K. Rool and Ridley to an extent-but thanks.

 

[KMDP]

I'm still confused. I was talking with a guy who thought Piranha plant wasn't deserving, and I asked him if he thinks he's any less "deserving" than characters like Isaac, Banjo, and Geno.

No character or franchise deserves anything that isn't already in smash. However, if I'm gonna humor him and we're gonna go down that street, Piranha Plant is a hell of alot more deserving than quote unquote "irrelevant" characters like Geno, Banjo, and Isaac.

What Luigi the President is trying to say is that trying to say that "Isaac, Banjo and Geno aren't relevant, so they shouldn't get into Smash" is a really, really, really stupid argument because, guess what...

<- Theses guys? Not relevant when they were included in Smash for the first time.

Smash can make characters relevant after the fact.

 

[Pakky]

Man can you just do these things with Mario enemies?

Hmmm.

 

[Noipoi]

Dude, he's not cute, I prefer cute things thank you very much.

That's an old trick my Uncle used to pull lol
Whenever I started describe things I thought were cool like an animal or a cartoon, he'd say "So, what's her name?"

 

[doomedtacox]

Okay. That was all I needed to know, that you meant the average gamer wouldn't know them.
I personally don't feel your argument stands as there are numerous Smash characters the average gamer doesn't know-like even K. Rool and Ridley to an extent-but thanks.

Well Sakurai puts lots of characters that are irrelevant in, I don't use it as an argument in terms of who I think is likely to be added, but in terms of who is "deserving", and I use "deserving" from Nintendo's point of view, not the fan point of view, because we have no say.

 

[Luigi The President]

Well Sakurai puts lots of characters that are irrelevant in, I don't use it as an argument in terms of who I think is likely to be added, but in terms of who is "deserving", and I use "deserving" from Nintendo's point of view, not the fan point of view, because we have no say.

In terms of Sakurai deserving and relevancy have never meant too much of a damn.
Nintendo's DLC lineup yea I can see your point.

 

[doomedtacox]

What Luigi the President is trying to say is that trying to say that "Isaac, Banjo and Geno aren't relevant, so they shouldn't get into Smash" is a really, really, really stupid argument because, guess what...

<- Theses guys? Not relevant when they were included in Smash for the first time.

Smash can make characters relevant after the fact.

I never used it as argument on whether they should get into smash or not, I used it as an argument on whether they're "deserving" or not. However, I don't think characters should get in based on strictly if they're "deserving" or not either.

 

[Kuon]

I definitely don't think its bad at all. Just still disappointed were probably not getting team-ups is all. That's what made SSE enjoyable.

Oh you mean for World of Light? The fact that it may not be local co-op? Do we know for sure that it's single player only?

 

[doomedtacox]

In terms of Sakurai deserving and relevancy have never meant too much of a damn.
Nintendo's DLC lineup yea I can see your point.

Exactly, it doesn't mean a damn, which makes it pointless that the guy was crying about Piranha plant not being deserving.

 

[Idon]

Oh you mean for World of Light? The fact that it may not be local co-op? Do we know for sure that it's single player only?

I'm almost certain.
Instead of a long story-based scene, it seems to just be dozens of short 5 minute gameplay segments.

 

[Luigi The President]

Exactly, it doesn't mean a damn, which makes it pointless that the guy was crying about Piranha plant not being deserving.

Oh yeah. PP is an amazing addition.

 

[Kingslime304]

Hey guys, I have two words that make people feel mixed to no end:

Neo
Shadaloo

 

[Bee Card]

Okay. That was all I needed to know, that you meant the average gamer wouldn't know them.
I personally don't feel your argument stands as there are numerous Smash characters the average gamer doesn't know-like even K. Rool and Ridley to an extent-but thanks.

I'm 100% supporting Geno for smash but I think characters like Ridley and K Rool are far best known than Geno especially in europe where SMRPG doesn't come so no one knows him. Idk for japan and north america but I can say that if a day we get Geno, he will be the less known of all the smash characters in europe.

 

[Deleted member]

In terms of Sakurai deserving and relevancy have never meant too much of a damn.
Nintendo's DLC lineup yea I can see your point.

Reminder, Sakurai still is the gatekeeper here. We all have to remember that while Nintendo chose the DLC characters, which most likely was a list of them and not just 5, Sakurai still chose what would fit in his eyes out of that list, then make the plan going forward.

We could very much still see insane stuff like last time, and they kinda have to if they wanna live up to what Smash For did for DLC, if I'm gonna be honest.

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm 100% supporting Geno for smash but I think characters like Ridley and K Rool are far best known than Geno especially in europe where SMRPG doesn't come so no one knows him. Idk for japan and north america but I can say that if a day we get Geno, he will be the less known of all the smash characters in europe.

SMRPG came out over 10 years ago in Europe.

 

[Blargg888]

9. Richter - I wish Richter would have gotten the same treatment Ken did, but I like what I've seen of Simon's moveset, so I'm sure I'll be fine with Richter too.

I mean, if you're saying that Richter should have gotten some of his own moves, he sorta already has them.

Since Simon's moveset is based off moves from both his games and Richter's, Richter already has moves from his home game.

 

[Raxxel]

“Sonic’s alts are all a shade of blue”

I dunno about y’all but this doesn’t look like a shade of blue to me.

Spoiler

It’s black as the ace of spades!

That's just a very, very dark shade of navy blue.

 

[Deleted member]

Also after coming from the music thread, Fatal Blooms in Moonlight (Sectonia's Theme) is confirmed for Smash Ultimate. Whether it's a remix or the original, it's in boys.

 

[KingofKoopas]

I'm surprised the topic of Let's Go hasn't come up with it releasing tomorrow, we cant be that apathetic to it can we be?

 

[Idon]

I'm surprised the topic of Let's Go hasn't come up with it releasing tomorrow, we cant be that apathetic to it can we be?

we can and we are.

Spoiler

I will say though, I appreciate retconning Leaf's name to Green and making her a complete psychopath.

 

[doomedtacox]

I'm surprised the topic of Let's Go hasn't come up with it releasing tomorrow, we cant be that apathetic to it can we be?

My copy comes in next week and that's all I'm doing in my spare time for a good week or two after that.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm surprised the topic of Let's Go hasn't come up with it releasing tomorrow, we cant be that apathetic to it can we be?

Well, it's gotten an 82 on Metacritic. And here I thought it was a "CURSED BAD GAME!!!!!!"

 

[Noipoi]

I'm surprised the topic of Let's Go hasn't come up with it releasing tomorrow, we cant be that apathetic to it can we be?

Maybe because this is the Smash thread.

Then again, that hasn't stopped us before...

 

[praline]

I'm surprised the topic of Let's Go hasn't come up with it releasing tomorrow, we cant be that apathetic to it can we be?

I love pokemon but that game looks really dull

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Since I've never done this before I suppose I'll go ahead and rank how hyped I am for all the new characters.

1. King K. Rool - He's finally here (performing for you)! But seriously, I've been campaigning for this guy since Brawl. I've always felt that he'd fit perfectly in the world of Smash, and our patience has finally been rewarded. Honestly, it's still hard to believe he's here. And he looks just like I'd always wanted - the Blunderbuss, crown toss, and helicopter pack. He's perfectly crafted.
2. Inkling - I love the world and characters of Splatoon, and with their recent surge in popularity, there was no doubt they'd show up - but honestly, even though I expected them, they're translated directly from Splatoon, and that makes me excited.
3. Simon - Castlevania had a big impact on classic gaming, and the character is once again translated beautifully from their home series. His reach has got me excited and it makes me ready to fight once again.
4. Ridley - I'm still in the camp of "he's too big" and that they had to sacrifice a bit of the character to make it work, but damn, does he look menacing. He clashes hard with most of the cast - and honestly, it fits the sadistic villain he is fantastically. He deserves the slot.
5. Incineroar - I may have preferred Decidueye, but the really cool wrestling motif makes me excited for him.
6. Isabelle - I still don't want her in the game, but that's only because she's too cute to hurt. That said, I like her alternate take on Villager's moveset. Especially with the fishing rod, that always felt missing on Villager.
7. Daisy - I like Daisy's spunky personality, even if I'm not the biggest fan of Peach's playstyle.
8. Ken - I like Ryu in Smash, and it's cool that they gave Ken some of his own moves instead of making him a direct copy.
9. Richter - I wish Richter would have gotten the same treatment Ken did, but I like what I've seen of Simon's moveset, so I'm sure I'll be fine with Richter too.
10. Dark Samus - I'm not a big fan of Samus' playstyle, so... eh.
11. Chrom - I really don't think he adds much that Roy and Lucina didn't already do, and I've already explained my problems with so many Fire Emblem characters.
12. Seriously, screw this. There are so many characters who really deserve the slot more than a generic enemy that in his own series doesn't do anything but chomp.

I did this a couple weeks ago, but I don't care, some of my opinions changed, so I'm gonna do it again
Warning: Very Unpopular Opinions Ahead

Spoiler: Longish

S Tier (Absolutely hyped for their inclusion)
1. When Ultimate first got announced, people were banking on Decidueye to be the Pokemon newcomer because he was the fan favorite. Let's just say I was disappointed by this, because the Rowlet line was my least favorite of the Gen 7 starters, mostly because they stole the attention from my personal favorite starter line of that generation, Litten's. I adore cats and a fire cat starter was always one of my dream Pokemon, so I was pretty glad to see one actually come to fruition. I obviously picked him in Sun and Moon, eventually evolving him all the way up to an Incineroar. Basically, my bois were in a tough situation in terms of fan popularity and franchise icon status. Decidueye already got in Pokken after all. But there was still hope. Being a playable Pokemon in a fighting game were you face off against other Pokemon is cool and all, but being a playable Pokemon in a fighting game where you face off against Nintendo and gaming all-stars is on a much higher level. Fortunately for me, luck was on my side, and Incineroar was chosen by Sakurai as the sole Gen 7 rep in Super Smash Bros Ultimate. I think most us can agree that Incineroar was the biggest underdog in terms of Smash Ultimate. Going into his move set, he looks really fun and really expressive, and I can't wait to use him... 10/10
2. When i play Street Fighter, I usually play Ken over Ryu just because he's more fun to use and he has a great personality, same thing can be said with his Smash iteration. He looks a lot more fun than Ryu is, and they nailed his personality... Easily, the best echo fighter. 10/10

A Tier (Look super fun, and I can't wait to use them)
3. Inklings were the closest thing to a lock when it came to Smash Switch. Splatoon was huge, and already became a franchise with the release of Splatoon 2. So they were the best way to reveal Smash Ultimate, and I still have goosebumps over that trailer to this day. Move set wise, the look very fun and very unique, the ink mechanic is gonna be a little infuriating to handle, but other than that, the Inklings are looking like a pretty fresh Smash inclusion 9/10
4. I feel in love with a lot of the Smash 4 newcomers, with some like Greninja, Rosalina and Luma, and Corrin going on to be among my all time favorite Smash characters. The same thing can pretty much be said for Villager. He was fun to troll around with, and had an entertaining move set to boot. So when Isabelle was announced as a semi clone to Villager, I got pretty happy. In fact, I'd even go as far to say that she looks even more fun than Villager.
Her side B is gonna be fun to mess around with, and the same thing can be said with her down B. Let's just say I've already grown fond of the little pupper. 9/10
5-6. It's about time time that Castlevania got it's due in Smash. It was bassically one of the last third party NES icons that wasn't in before. Both Simon and Ricther look really fun and seem to play very true to their original games... I like them almost equally, but Richter nudges ahead of Simon by a little bit for me, just because I like his design more, and it's nice to see another gaming meme legend to join the roster 9/10

B Tier (Look pretty fun, I might give them a shot)
7. I never thought I'd see the day that Daisy would actually get in Smash. I'm fine with her, I just never expected it. She doesn't play too differently to Peach, and that's okay for me as I like using Peach quite a bit in Smash, and having a new variation on a moveset I already like is completley fine for me...
That being said, having no "Hi, I'm Daisy!" taunt is such missed potential 8/10
8. Unlike most people, I'm completely fine with him... he's a joke character, he's supposed to be dumb and random... No more of this "They chose a Piranha Plant over Waluigi" crud. He's a free early purchase bonus, of course they would choose someone not many people asked for. If they stuck someone like say, Banjo Kazooie as the early purchase bonus, many people would feel a bit ticked off... Besides, Piranha Plant looks fun and creative, and I can't wait to use him 8/10

C Tier (Neurtal on...)
9. I've always been completely fine with the insane amount of Fire Emblem characters in Smash, because they're all just so darn fun to use. Roy is no different, so having basically a fireless Roy with an Aether recovery is already gonna be unique enough for me to fall in love with... That being said, his poor results in almost every match I watch is definitely worrying me 7/10
10. Originally, I was much more against Ridley, because I was one of the people who thought that he was"Too big". That being said, my thoughts now are definitely more positive. Being able to play as basically a Xenomorph is gonna pretty fun and pretty charming (I just called Ridley charming somehow). 6/10

D Tier (I'm a bit bothered by their inclusions)
11. I feel like Dark Samus was kind of a lazy echo fighter... Dark Samus in the Prime games has so many unique attacks and just limiting her to an echo of Samus is kinda disappointing and it seems kinda pointless... If you couldn't give her a unique move set, you really just shouldn't have bothered, and just should've given the Echo slot to someone else like Dixie 3/10
12. There, I said it. I know he has a lot of fans, but I just don't get the hype for him... I played the original Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong 64, so I am very well aware of him, it's just I don't get why so many people want him in Smash... It almost feels like people voted for him just to get K.Rool back in the mainline DK games, and it seems that according to sources, that they succeeded, and good for them... I'm happy for his fans, but I just don't really understand the huge hype over him... 2/10

Overall, a 7.5 roster for me. love most inclusions, but I' a little disappointed by some others

 

[KingofKoopas]

we can and we are.

I will say though, I appreciate retconning Leaf's name to Green and making her a complete psychopath.

Wait they did what now?

 

[doomedtacox]

I did this a couple weeks ago, but I don't care, some of my opinions changed, so I'm gonna do it again
Warning: Very Unpopular Opinions Ahead

Spoiler: Longish

S Tier (Absolutely hyped for their inclusion)
1. When Ultimate first got announced, people were banking on Decidueye to be the Pokemon newcomer because he was the fan favorite. Let's just say I was disappointed by this, because the Rowlet line was my least favorite of the Gen 7 starters, mostly because they stole the attention from my personal favorite starter line of that generation, Litten's. I adore cats and a fire cat starter was always one of my dream Pokemon, so I was pretty glad to see one actually come to fruition. I obviously picked him in Sun and Moon, eventually evolving him all the way up to an Incineroar. Basically, my bois were in a tough situation in terms of fan popularity and franchise icon status. Decidueye already got in Pokken after all. But there was still hope. Being a playable Pokemon in a fighting game were you face off against other Pokemon is cool and all, but being a playable Pokemon in a fighting game where you face off against Nintendo and gaming all-stars is on a much higher level. Fortunately for me, luck was on my side, and Incineroar was chosen by Sakurai as the sole Gen 7 rep in Super Smash Bros Ultimate. I think most us can agree that Incineroar was the biggest underdog in terms of Smash Ultimate. Going into his move set, he looks really fun and really expressive, and I can't wait to use him... 10/10
2. When i play Street Fighter, I usually play Ken over Ryu just because he's more fun to use and he has a great personality, same thing can be said with his Smash iteration. He looks a lot more fun than Ryu is, and they nailed his personality... Easily, the best echo fighter. 10/10

A Tier (Look super fun, and I can't wait to use them)
3. Inklings were the closest thing to a lock when it came to Smash Switch. Splatoon was huge, and already became a franchise with the release of Splatoon 2. So they were the best way to reveal Smash Ultimate, and I still have goosebumps over that trailer to this day. Move set wise, the look very fun and very unique, the ink mechanic is gonna be a little infuriating to handle, but other than that, the Inklings are looking like a pretty fresh Smash inclusion 9/10
4. I feel in love with a lot of the Smash 4 newcomers, with some like Greninja, Rosalina and Luma, and Corrin going on to be among my all time favorite Smash characters. The same thing can pretty much be said for Villager. He was fun to troll around with, and had an entertaining move set to boot. So when Isabelle was announced as a semi clone to Villager, I got pretty happy. In fact, I'd even go as far to say that she looks even more fun than Villager.
Her side B is gonna be fun to mess around with, and the same thing can be said with her down B. Let's just say I've already grown fond of the little pupper. 9/10
5-6. It's about time time that Castlevania got it's due in Smash. It was bassically one of the last third party NES icons that wasn't in before. Both Simon and Ricther look really fun and seem to play very true to their original games... I like them almost equally, but Richter nudges ahead of Simon by a little bit for me, just because I like his design more, and it's nice to see another gaming meme legend to join the roster 9/10

B Tier (Look pretty fun, I might give them a shot)
7. I never thought I'd see the day that Daisy would actually get in Smash. I'm fine with her, I just never expected it. She doesn't play too differently to Peach, and that's okay for me as I like using Peach quite a bit in Smash, and having a new variation on a moveset I already like is completley fine for me...
That being said, having no "Hi, I'm Daisy!" taunt is such missed potential 8/10
8. Unlike most people, I'm completely fine with him... he's a joke character, he's supposed to be dumb and random... No more of this "They chose a Piranha Plant over Waluigi" crud. He's a free early purchase bonus, of course they would choose someone not many people asked for. If they stuck someone like say, Banjo Kazooie as the early purchase bonus, many people would feel a bit ticked off... Besides, Piranha Plant looks fun and creative, and I can't wait to use him 8/10

C Tier (Neurtal on...)
9. I've always been completely fine with the insane amount of Fire Emblem characters in Smash, because they're all just so darn fun to use. Roy is no different, so having basically a fireless Roy with an Aether recovery is already gonna be unique enough for me to fall in love with... That being said, his poor results in almost every match I watch is definitely worrying me 7/10
10. Originally, I was much more against Ridley, because I was one of the people who thought that he was"Too big". That being said, my thoughts now are definitely more positive. Being able to play as basically a Xenomorph is gonna pretty fun and pretty charming (I just called Ridley charming somehow). 6/10

D Tier (I'm a bit bothered by their inclusions)
11. I feel like Dark Samus was kind of a lazy echo fighter... Dark Samus in the Prime games has so many unique attacks and just limiting her to an echo of Samus is kinda disappointing and it seems kinda pointless... If you couldn't give her a unique move set, you really just shouldn't have bothered, and just should've given the Echo slot to someone else like Dixie 3/10
12. There, I said it. I know he has a lot of fans, but I just don't get the hype for him... I played the original Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong 64, so I am very well aware of him, it's just I don't get why so many people want him in Smash... It almost feels like people voted for him just to get K.Rool back in the mainline DK games, and it seems that according to sources, that they succeeded, and good for them... I'm happy for his fans, but I just don't really understand the huge hype over him... 2/10

Overall, a 7.5 roster for me. love most inclusions, but I' a little disappointed by some others

Agreed with K Rool, although the reason I just dislike him is because he's so damn fat.

 

[Dee Dude]

People bringing back the “relevancy” argument after (Gen 7 Pokemon) & ‘s (Common Mario enemy) convenient inclusion to dismiss Banjo/Isaac/Geno and why they’ll never happen is the stupidest thing that’s been brought up since then and I’m glad others besides me are calling it out.

I was certain that had obliterated it to the ground but apparently “H-HES THE MAIN VILLAIN SO HE D-DOESN'T COUNT!”

Yeah, a main villain who hasn’t been in his own freaking games in nearly a decade, I can guarantee that any modern Nintendo fan would have no clue who he is if not for Smash.

It’s like people forget that Smash tributes Nintendo history, not just the latest trends.

 

[Luigi The President]

I did this a couple weeks ago, but I don't care, some of my opinions changed, so I'm gonna do it again
Warning: Very Unpopular Opinions Ahead

Spoiler: Longish

S Tier (Absolutely hyped for their inclusion)
1. When Ultimate first got announced, people were banking on Decidueye to be the Pokemon newcomer because he was the fan favorite. Let's just say I was disappointed by this, because the Rowlet line was my least favorite of the Gen 7 starters, mostly because they stole the attention from my personal favorite starter line of that generation, Litten's. I adore cats and a fire cat starter was always one of my dream Pokemon, so I was pretty glad to see one actually come to fruition. I obviously picked him in Sun and Moon, eventually evolving him all the way up to an Incineroar. Basically, my bois were in a tough situation in terms of fan popularity and franchise icon status. Decidueye already got in Pokken after all. But there was still hope. Being a playable Pokemon in a fighting game were you face off against other Pokemon is cool and all, but being a playable Pokemon in a fighting game where you face off against Nintendo and gaming all-stars is on a much higher level. Fortunately for me, luck was on my side, and Incineroar was chosen by Sakurai as the sole Gen 7 rep in Super Smash Bros Ultimate. I think most us can agree that Incineroar was the biggest underdog in terms of Smash Ultimate. Going into his move set, he looks really fun and really expressive, and I can't wait to use him... 10/10
2. When i play Street Fighter, I usually play Ken over Ryu just because he's more fun to use and he has a great personality, same thing can be said with his Smash iteration. He looks a lot more fun than Ryu is, and they nailed his personality... Easily, the best echo fighter. 10/10

A Tier (Look super fun, and I can't wait to use them)
3. Inklings were the closest thing to a lock when it came to Smash Switch. Splatoon was huge, and already became a franchise with the release of Splatoon 2. So they were the best way to reveal Smash Ultimate, and I still have goosebumps over that trailer to this day. Move set wise, the look very fun and very unique, the ink mechanic is gonna be a little infuriating to handle, but other than that, the Inklings are looking like a pretty fresh Smash inclusion 9/10
4. I feel in love with a lot of the Smash 4 newcomers, with some like Greninja, Rosalina and Luma, and Corrin going on to be among my all time favorite Smash characters. The same thing can pretty much be said for Villager. He was fun to troll around with, and had an entertaining move set to boot. So when Isabelle was announced as a semi clone to Villager, I got pretty happy. In fact, I'd even go as far to say that she looks even more fun than Villager.
Her side B is gonna be fun to mess around with, and the same thing can be said with her down B. Let's just say I've already grown fond of the little pupper. 9/10
5-6. It's about time time that Castlevania got it's due in Smash. It was bassically one of the last third party NES icons that wasn't in before. Both Simon and Ricther look really fun and seem to play very true to their original games... I like them almost equally, but Richter nudges ahead of Simon by a little bit for me, just because I like his design more, and it's nice to see another gaming meme legend to join the roster 9/10

B Tier (Look pretty fun, I might give them a shot)
7. I never thought I'd see the day that Daisy would actually get in Smash. I'm fine with her, I just never expected it. She doesn't play too differently to Peach, and that's okay for me as I like using Peach quite a bit in Smash, and having a new variation on a moveset I already like is completley fine for me...
That being said, having no "Hi, I'm Daisy!" taunt is such missed potential 8/10
8. Unlike most people, I'm completely fine with him... he's a joke character, he's supposed to be dumb and random... No more of this "They chose a Piranha Plant over Waluigi" crud. He's a free early purchase bonus, of course they would choose someone not many people asked for. If they stuck someone like say, Banjo Kazooie as the early purchase bonus, many people would feel a bit ticked off... Besides, Piranha Plant looks fun and creative, and I can't wait to use him 8/10

C Tier (Neurtal on...)
9. I've always been completely fine with the insane amount of Fire Emblem characters in Smash, because they're all just so darn fun to use. Roy is no different, so having basically a fireless Roy with an Aether recovery is already gonna be unique enough for me to fall in love with... That being said, his poor results in almost every match I watch is definitely worrying me 7/10
10. Originally, I was much more against Ridley, because I was one of the people who thought that he was"Too big". That being said, my thoughts now are definitely more positive. Being able to play as basically a Xenomorph is gonna pretty fun and pretty charming (I just called Ridley charming somehow). 6/10

D Tier (I'm a bit bothered by their inclusions)
11. I feel like Dark Samus was kind of a lazy echo fighter... Dark Samus in the Prime games has so many unique attacks and just limiting her to an echo of Samus is kinda disappointing and it seems kinda pointless... If you couldn't give her a unique move set, you really just shouldn't have bothered, and just should've given the Echo slot to someone else like Dixie 3/10
12. There, I said it. I know he has a lot of fans, but I just don't get the hype for him... I played the original Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong 64, so I am very well aware of him, it's just I don't get why so many people want him in Smash... It almost feels like people voted for him just to get K.Rool back in the mainline DK games, and it seems that according to sources, that they succeeded, and good for them... I'm happy for his fans, but I just don't really understand the huge hype over him... 2/10

Overall, a 7.5 roster for me. love most inclusions, but I' a little disappointed by some others

Echoes ESPECIALLY don't have "slots"

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

we can and we are.

I will say though, I appreciate retconning Leaf's name to Green and making her a complete psychopath.

Oh? This sounds interesting! What's the context?

 

[Idon]

I feel like Dark Samus was kind of a lazy echo fighter... Dark Samus in the Prime games has so many unique attacks and just limiting her to an echo of Samus is kinda disappointing and it seems kinda pointless... If you couldn't give her a unique move set, you really just shouldn't have bothered, and just should've given the Echo slot to someone else like Dixie 3/10

Spoiler

IIIIIII feel you.
The worst part is the community that'll just eat it up and say "oh yeah duh, it makes total sense that Dark Samus is an echo fighter, wouldn't have it any other way!"
It feels so ****ing revisionist.

 

[culumon]

Part of the most frustrating aspects of the whole "irrelevant" argument in speculation is the unspoken, unanimous agreement that 80s nostalgia pandering is more valid than the decades that follow.

Seriously, nobody brings up relevancy when you bring up a NES-era character as a "retro rep". Relevancy be damned, picks like Takamaru and Mach Rider are fair game, and why wouldn't they be? Smash brought back the Ice Climbers and Pit from the brink of obscurity, disregarding the fact that there's no way in hell the vast majority of the contemporary gaming audience would have heard of them at the time. Hell, it straight-up invented a character in Mr. Game and Watch, Frankensteining a bunch of disparate LCD toys into a singular, tangible form. Those picks were for the hardcore Nintendo crowd, the type that know every bit of esoteric trivia about the company and its games that there is to be known.

But it's been a decade since Brawl, and nearly two since Melee. Time has passed and so has our standards for what constitutes "retro". So why is it that characters that are, by all rights, now "retro" dismissed as "irrelevant" instead? Seriously. K. Rool got hit by that particular hammer repeatedly, and, now that he's in, Isaac seems to be its biggest first party victim. Never mind the fact that Donkey Kong Country and Golden Sun are, in the year of our lord 2018, older now than Ice Climber was in 2001.

The double standards permeate into third party, too. I almost never saw Mega Man and Simon Belmont hit with the irrelevant argument the way I do Banjo-Kazooie. Yes, those series were in marginally healthier places than Banjo-Kazooie is now, with the Mega Man x Street Fighter fangame getting officially licensed in 2012, and Castlevania having a Netflix series. But those were scraps, with little to do with Capcom or Konami themselves. They were, by all accounts, dead franchises. At least Microsoft and Rare are taking some active interest with Banjo this year thanks to the 20th anniversary and subsequent merchandise. I'm not saying those are any better than what Mega Man and Castlevania were getting pre-Smash announcements, but it's really not substantially worse either. Yet Mega Man and Simon Belmont were seen as substantially less outlandish choices, with their unfamiliarity with contemporary audiences never coming up, and I assure you it's in part due to the decade they came from.

I think people act like there are two camps - the aforementioned hardcore Nintendo crowd, and literal children. The aforementioned hardcore Nintendo crowd can be satiated by characters from the 1980s, and children can be satiated by characters from the 2010s. And I mean, I'm not going to use any of this to disparage kids who do want modern characters, because that's a crappy attitude. Smash is for them, too, 100%. But I will say that the (generally unspoken) attitude of "obscure 80s characters are ok because they're for the hardcore Nintendo fans!!!!!" is predicated on the idea that what constitutes a hardcore Nintendo fan hasn't radically changed since 2001. Which isn't true, because it's not 2001 anymore, time has passed, as it always does, and entropy will consume us all one day, and the sun will expand and consume the Earth in a titanic ball of flame, etc. If you were a kid when you played Melee, or Brawl, I very sincerely doubt you knew who the Ice Climbers or Mr Game & Watch were, or Pit or R.O.B - unless you played Mario Kart DS for the latter. And that's fine, because if you were a kid at the time, why the hell should you be expected to be familiar with characters years and years before your time? But did the presence of those characters bother you in anyway, or were you curious by their inclusion, eager to know more? Do you think they were a wasted spot, and irrelevant? Well, I don't know about you, but as one of those kids who did grow up on Melee, and who had no idea who the Ice Climbers or Mr. Game & Watch - or Ness or Marth or Roy, for that matter - I was absolutely fascinated by those characters, and eager to learn more. I was also excited for seeing characters I was more familiar with, like Bowser, Mewtwo, Ganondorf and Falco, enter the fray too, sure. But the magic of Smash is the mix of the two, to me. The unfamiliar engages with our imagination, pushes us outside of our comfort zone, and that's a wonderful thing! And my personal unfamiliarity with those characters at the time didn't negate the joy I'm sure they brought many others out there who knew them and wanted them and loved them outside of Smash.

All I know is that most of the people in my age group, most of the people I talk to who play games... for them, the announcement of a character like Banjo-Kazooie would resonate substantially more than any other "retro" pick did, and that they are much more intimately familiar with the character than they were Mega Man or Simon. Because for the millions of people who grew up on the Nintendo 64 who have now grown-up and have jobs and pay taxes, Banjo is retro, and Banjo is beloved to us for the same reasons Mega Man and Simon Belmont are beloved to those who grew up on the NES.

I guess to wrap this mad ramble up... of all of Ultimate's character reveal trailers - ignoring the initial reveal trailer with Inklings, 'cuz that was more a reveal for the game as a whole - the one with the highest view count on YouTube is the GameSpot upload of K. Rool's, sitting at nearly 2 million views. And that didn't happen because Donkey Kong is still a relevant franchise - as some people have tried to argue as a factor that excuses K. Rool's inclusion - it happened because this character who hasn't had a major appearance since 1999 happens to resonate with a lot of people, people who grew up on his games. And I know he wouldn't be the only one to illicit such a reaction. Relevancy be damned.

 

[Luigi The President]

IIIIIII feel you.
The worst part is the community that'll just eat it up and say "oh yeah duh, it makes total sense that Dark Samus is an echo fighter, wouldn't have it any other way!"

As someone who values the character above all I'm just glad DS is in the biggest Nintendo crossover, like a Hall of Fame.
I'm not a big Metroid fan but really enjoy the character

 

[Bee Card]

SMRPG came out over 10 years ago in Europe.

Yeah but that's to late to become a known game (even I didn't know it was finally released on virtual console).

 

[Kingslime304]

He is the Game Dude
He is so rude
He is a gamer with a bad attitude
He plays the games that make god ashamed
They insult the brain because they are so lame~

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah but that's to late to become a known game (even I didn't know it was finally released on virtual console).

Is it really though? I get what you're saying just not sure I agree.

 

[doomedtacox]

People bringing back the “relevancy” argument after (Gen 7 Pokemon) & ‘s (Common Mario enemy) convenient inclusion to dismiss Banjo/Isaac/Geno and why they’ll never happen is the stupidest thing that’s been brought up since the and I’m glad others besides me are calling it out.

I was certain that had obliterated it to the ground but apparently “B-BUT HES THE MAIN VILLAIN SO H-HE DOESNT COUNT!”

Yeah, a main villain who hasn’t been in his own freaking games in nearly a decade, I can guarantee that any modern Nintendo fan would have no clue who he is if not for Smash.

It’s like people forget that Smash is part of Nintendo history.

Nobody was using it as an argument on why they'll never happen, I was using it as an argument to say they aren't "deserving" from Nintendo's point of view. But Nintendo/Sakurai clearly doesn't use this as their only criteria.

 

[Idon]

As someone who values the character above all I'm just glad DS is in the biggest Nintendo crossover, like a Hall of Fame.
I'm not a big Metroid fan but really enjoy the character

Yeah, I enjoy the character above all else, and I care about how they're represented in this Hall of Fame.
I've never in my lifetime ever wanted a character in just so that their name can be read with all the rest. That's just surface level.

I wanna say "Oh rad, that's Dark Samus from Prime 2/3!" not "Oh huh, that's Samus, but evil themed..."

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I'm surprised the topic of Let's Go hasn't come up with it releasing tomorrow, we cant be that apathetic to it can we be?

Eh, I'll admit. I forgot that game was coming out. Is there anything interesting about it?