Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ZephyrZ]

As a Charizard main with a Mewtwo secondary, I'd agree that my Zard was the stronger of the two because I practiced him more...if Zard didn't have crippling matchups that Mewtwo just didn't. I'll be rocking my Charizard only For Glory until I run into a Zamus, Samus, Link, Tink or Sheik, and thin it feels like I've hit a wall where I'm no longer able to approach or control the stage like a giant, speedy dragon is supposed to.

If you want to main a "bad" character with extreme weaknesses like I did in Smash 4, I seriously recommend having a secondary that covers their weaknesses. Maybe you could even main two "bad" characters with a sort of symbiosis, like I did with Zard and pre-buff Mewtwo (I still don't actually think Mewtwo was as bad back then as people made him out to be but I digress).

 

[KingofKoopas]

I wish Nintendo explored that side of Ganondorf further...

Wind Waker. But even then he still was willing to kill Children.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I just realized, if everyone was there when Galeem "killed" them, what reason did have to be friendly?

Like, I understand and even but Ridley is the most evil of them all morally.

Dark Samus is maybe even more bizarre, like if I were Kirby and the gang I'd probably just tip-toe around freeing a chaotic being who's hell-bent on consuming the universe in Phazon. Ridley, as evil as he is, could at the very least have survival as a common motivation with the rest, Dark Samus on the other hand isn't actually that different from Galeem.

 

[Paperchampion23]

No, Ganondorf murders because he's the reincarnation of an ancient demonic embodiment of hatred. The racial injustice is just a convenient excuse.

And it's only for one game. He's not a gerudo in other games aside from OoT.

 

[osby]

I wish Nintendo explored that side of Ganondorf further...

I wish they explore any side of Ganondorf. Guy's been absent from the games for a decade except that weird spin-off and Smash.

 

[Cosmic77]

Ridley is not worse than Ganondorf. Ganondorf is a goddamn demon king. Ridley is just a vicious pirate.

No, Ganondorf murders because he's the reincarnation of an ancient demonic embodyment of hatred. The racial injustice is just a convenient excuse.

Gotta disagree with you on that. Ganondorf is a villain who usually has a motive for his actions. People who get in his way are just collateral damage. Ridley, however, would kill absolutely anyone just for the sheer pleasure he gets from murder. He doesn't need a reason for his actions. He just genuinely loves the thrill from each kill.

 

[osby]

Dark Samus is maybe even more bizarre, like if I were Kirby and the gang I'd probably just tip-toe around freeing a chaotic being who's hell-bent on consuming the universe in Phazon. Ridley, as evil as he is, could at the very least have survival as a common motivation with the rest, Dark Samus on the other hand isn't actually that different from Galeem.

Wouldn't that make them rivals? Like enemy of my enemy?

 

[KingofKoopas]

I wish they explore any side of Ganondorf. Guy's been absent from the games for a decade except that weird spin-off and Smash.

Before then he was the super secret final boss behind all the villains. If anyone but him is trying to take over Hyrule, odds are he is behind it. I am amazed he wasnt really the villain of Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks somehow.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Shut the hell up all of you Demise never happened because Demise as a concept is too ****ing stupid lalalalallaLAAAAAA CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER BULL**** WRITING

 

[staindgrey]

And it's only for one game. He's not a gerudo in other games aside from OoT.

He was a Gerudo in Twilight Princess too, pretty sure.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Looks like gamingintel was wrong and we aren't getting another direct this month.

If we're not getting another direct this month, wouldn't that also mean that Spawn Wave is wrong too? He was the first insider to suggest such, after all.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Gotta disagree with you on that. Ganondorf is a villain who usually has a motive for his actions. People who get in his way are just collateral damage. Ridley, however, would kill absolutely anyone just for the sheer pleasure he gets from murder. He doesn't need a reason for his actions. He just genuinely loves the thrill from each kill.

Yes, and Ganondorf's "motive" is always enslaving the entire world in unending darkness.

I'm sorry, but there are clear tropes at play here. Murderous pirate does not trump world enslaving demon king.

 

[KingofKoopas]

All I can really say on the subject though is... The Gerudo are hot.

 

[Will]

Which is why he betrayed his own race to a pair of witches.

No, Ganondorf murders because he's the reincarnation of an ancient demonic embodiment of hatred. The racial injustice is just a convenient excuse.

At least it's an excuse he can use. Ganondorf's character was more sophisticated, and the last time we even saw him was before canon said he was a reincarnation of Demise. That's a big lore retcon excuse.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Finally, my power's back after a huge windstorm last night...
Did I miss much?

Geckos are reptiles...

Oh, okay good... That's what I assumed, I was just making sure

 

[Diem]

Ridley is not worse than Ganondorf. Ganondorf is a goddamn demon king. Ridley is just a vicious pirate.

This is the first encounter between Samus and Ridley after Samus's childhood where Ridley killed her parents:

Dark Samus is maybe even more bizarre, like if I were Kirby and the gang I'd probably just tip-toe around freeing a chaotic being who's hell-bent on consuming the universe in Phazon. Ridley, as evil as he is, could at the very least have survival as a common motivation with the rest, Dark Samus on the other hand isn't actually that different from Galeem.

Yeah, the only thing Dark Samus is probably thinking in World of Light is "I should've been the one to kill/control everyone."

 

[DarthEnderX]

At least it's an excuse he can use. Ganondorf's character was more sophisticated, and the last time we even saw him was before canon said he was a reincarnation of Demise. That's a big lore retcon excuse.

Yes, and we live in a time that is after that retcon took place. So, like it or not, that's what Ganondorf IS now.

 

[staindgrey]

Gotta disagree with you on that. Ganondorf is a villain who usually has a motive for his actions. People who get in his way are just collateral damage. Ridley, however, would kill absolutely anyone just for the sheer pleasure he gets from murder. He doesn't need a reason for his actions. He just genuinely loves the thrill from each kill.

Being more chaotic doesn't necessarily mean "more evil".

Ganon's motivation is always absolute power. In two futures we're able to see the consequences of his ambitions realized-- OoT and BotW-- and it results in a ruined world.

We haven't seen a result where Ridley or the Space Pirates in general reach their absolute goal to compare. They, as an organization, are more sound in their diabolical goals because they want to profit from it.

 

[Xeno324]

Slightly off topic, but is anyone else who plays the latest Minecraft snapshot having issues with the high frequency of Pillager spawns (with the beast also)?

 

[Will]

Yes, and we live in a time that is after that retcon took place. So, like it or not, that's what Ganondorf IS now.

Is he now? Yes.
More than Ridley? Not even close.

also we haven't seen Ganondorf in 12 years that's super sad.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

All I can really say on the subject though is... The Gerudo are hot.

Yeah, they are.

In the literal sense they are too, since most of their settlements throughout the games, are in deserts...

 

[KingofKoopas]

Yeah, they are.

In the literal sense they are too, since most of their settlements throughout the games, are in deserts...

Except for at night, Deserts lose heat FAST so at night it can be FREEZING.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

This is also why I don't mind my characters being mid or low tier. I get to play them because I like them as a character, not because they're mechanically or statistically superior in some way, and thus there aren't hundreds of other people playing them for that reason.

So I can be Dark Samus and not have to be associated with people just gaming the tiers.

Bayonetta fans got it the worst, sadly.

Agreed though I personally dislike how people get on characters who are top tier and claim that they only use them for that specific reason.

Sure they're really valuable competitively but doesn't mean they can't be used for fun as well, I've always loved using Diddy specifically cause I'm a big fan of him and I love his move set. I never use characters based upon where they are listed on the tier list.

 

[DarthEnderX]

also we haven't seen Ganondorf in 12 years that's super sad.

No. But you have seen Ganon, and, spoiler alert: They're the same character.

 

[Cosmic77]

Yes, and Ganondorf's "motive" is always enslaving the entire world in unending darkness.

I'm sorry, but there are clear tropes at play here. Murderous pirate does not trump world enslaving demon king.

Let me put it to you this way. What kind of person would you consider to be more evil? Someone who kills innocent lives because he's fueled by anger and hatred, or someone who kills innocent lives because he thinks it's a fun pastime?

Ganondorf might have bigger goals in mind, but Ridley and his blatant disregard for any type of life makes him a much more evil and unredeemable villain IMO.

 

[KiBom]

Finally, my power's back after a huge windstorm last night...
Did I miss much?

Oh, okay good... That's what I assumed, I was just making sure

Literally nothing other than Katalina dying.

 

[Diem]

Agreed though I personally dislike how people get on characters who are top tier and claim that they only use them for that specific reason.

Sure they're really valuable competitively but doesn't mean they can't be used for fun as well, I've always loved using Diddy specifically cause I'm a big fan of him and I love his move set.

Well of course a lot of people will play top-tier characters because they just like the characters, often completely ignorant of their place in the metagame. There's nothing wrong with that. The only problem is that then they might get lumped in with the people who do only play them for the metagame, but that's not their fault.

Because a lot of people do only play characters because they're advantageous and not because of the character itself. All the hundreds of people who played Meta Knight in Brawl or Fox in Melee aren't playing them in later games after they've been adjusted.

 

[Will]

No. But you have seen Ganon, and, spoiler alert: They're the same character.

Ganon is more times made into a mindless drone than he is a sophisticated character, which is like in only the OG Zelda and a Link to the Past.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Literally nothing other than Katalina dying.

Yeah, that's a shame...
I was really starting to like her...

 

[Dcas]

Hmm well seems like the peak of smash hype speculation is done, people now are just looking towards playing the game.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Finally, my power's back after a huge windstorm last night...
Did I miss much?

Oh, okay good... That's what I assumed, I was just making sure

You might have been confusing Geckos with Salamanders. They look sort of like Geckos/Lizards but are actually amphibians.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Let me put it to you this way. What kind of person would you consider to be more evil? Someone who kills innocent lives because he's fueled by anger and hatred, or someone who kills innocent lives because he thinks it's a fun pastime?

Whichever one causes the most harm.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Let me put it to you this way. What kind of person would you consider to be more evil? Someone who kills innocent lives because he's fueled by anger and hatred, or someone who kills innocent lives because he thinks it's a fun pastime?

Ganondorf might have bigger goals in mind, but Ridley and his blatant disregard for any type of life makes him a much more evil and unredeemable villain IMO.

To be fair, thats like comparing a Genocidal Dictator who tries to wipe out an entire race of people for the greater good to a Serial Killer. I would think the former is worse because he does evil for what he thinks is good as compared to the Serial Killer who is probably morally and mentally deficnient.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ridley is not worse than Ganondorf. Ganondorf is a goddamn demon king. Ridley is just a vicious pirate.

Ganondorf at least shows mercy. Ridley he shows no remorse and guilt for his actions. He killed Samus' parents in cold blood and taunted her about eating her mother. Ridley only lives to cause destruction and bloodshed.

Compared to Ridley. Ganondorf's a saint.

Ridley is easily one of Nintendo's most sadistic and evil villains.

 

[ZephyrZ]

If someone believes their evil actions are just, does that make them less evil? If someone's motives are purely malicious but on a small scale, does that make them more evil then a self righteous villain who's crimes effect hundreds or millions?

This is why I don't believe in absolute goods or absolute evils. The topic is too complex to boil down to "x is evil, but y is evil-er".

 

[Will]

Whichever one causes the most harm.

What about the mindset of the person himself? I could wipe out a city with a sneeze but I'm not torturing people with waterboards in the process, am I? Jimmy down the street does that, and he's ten times less powerful.

 

[doomedtacox]

I know, right? What's up with that.

Anyway, my Shrek body pillow just came in and I think it'll go nicely with my Shrek cardboard cutouts, Shrek wallpaper and, of course, Shrek carpets.

Yikes, this one I'm more concerned about tbh.

 

[Will]

If someone believes their evil actions are just, does that make them less evil? If someone's motives are purely malicious but on a small scale, does that make them more evil then a self righteous villain who's crimes effect hundreds or millions?

This is why I don't believe in absolute goods or absolute evils. The topic is too complex to boil down to "x is evil, but y is evil-er".

Probably the best example of "evil but not as evil" is Dr. Doom.
people say funny valentine too for the anime side but honestly he's done a lot more bad than his motives are good

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Ganon is more times made into a mindless drone than he is a sophisticated character, which is like in only the OG Zelda and a Link to the Past.

Major key point on why I prefer Ganondorf over Ganon. Don't even get me started on the waste of space and potential that is Calamity Ganon.

 

[Idon]

If someone believes their evil actions are just, does that make them less evil?

Depends on how American they are.