Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ZephyrZ]

It's fun seeing people worm to justify that their waifu simulator deserves the same amount of characters as the world's most iconic gaming franchise.

And then we have Katalina, the literal nobody who started this whole argument in the first place.

You can like Fire Emblem, but you're fooling yourself if you think it's even on the level of most franchises in Smash.

And then there's the fact we have four Marths... ya'll want more characters because they aren't unique enough for your taste but the fact over half of the cast from the series play pretty similar doesn't bother you - which is it?

If I, a massive Zelda fan, think three Links is redundant, why do you justify it when it's not even true to the character?

I don't actually expect any more FE characters, I just don't think you're being fair with your arguments. FE, for the better or the worse, has exploded into something far larger then it used to be in the recent years. They may not be as recognizable as Mario but they're far more recognizable within the gaming landscape then the likes of Katalina.

I think "deserving" has always beem a silly argument to use. FE is a character driven franchise with rotating orotagonists so there's going to be a lot of characters its fans want. That doesn't mean in needs to have a lot of characters, but it does help explain why it has more characters then LoZ, who's protagonists are Link, Link and Link, even despite the fact that FE doesn't even have a villain in the roster yet while Zelda has had theirs since Melee.

I personally hate the "waifu sim" elements of it btw, but sure, pretend that I'm just trying to get my "waifu" in.

 

[Captain Fun]

You'd think some people wouldn't get so upset about there being a lot of Fire Emblem characters after all these years but I guess not. The more the merrier IMO.

Is there any special reason to believe Hitagi or did I miss something?

I personally hate the "waifu sim" elements of it btw, but sure, pretend that I'm just trying to get my "waifu" in.

They're dumb, but they're also completely overblown. You'd think FE games were dating sims from the way some people talk about them.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

THEY'RE ****ING RELATED OF COURSE THEY'RE IDENTICAL

Even though Lucina and Chrom use a different fighting style in Awakening?

Also, Roy isn't related to Marth...

 

[Gentlepanda]

>when everyone's talking about anime nobodies and you're sitting here pushing the most nobody of anime nobodies.
View attachment 177804

Does an SMT rep mean we get some Persona tracks in there too? I'm down.

 

[Diem]

I'm sick of Fire Emblem, but Black Knight looks cool, and seeing his Assist Trophy just tank through people and taunt them was pretty fun.

If he was a playable character, I'd like to see him be big and slow, but have a good degree of super armor. Kind of like Aganos in Killer Instinct, or Abigail from Street Fighter V.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd be totally fine with the other captains being alternates. Because in that case, they play exactly the same, not extremely minor tweaks. If Roy/Chrom/Lucina all got shoved into Marth's slot and were alts, I'd be fine with them too.

It's the same way I feel about Richter. Alt material. Ken? Alt material (though at least they made him faithful to his source material.

It's 2018. Ultimate is a thing. Clonephobia should be over.

 

[Idon]

Hey, at least Jack Frost looks distinct and, y'know, doesn't use a sword with a nearly identical style to three other characters.

Well it aint Jack Frost, so I guess that just shows how unknown Demi-fiend and SMT protagonists in general are.

 

[beans]

>when everyone's talking about anime nobodies and you're sitting here pushing the most nobody of anime nobodies.
View attachment 177804

Some dude was pushing for Actraiser. I didnt even know Actraiser wasnt a dream I had once.
Dont worry, white humanoid chocobo ice clown Jack Frost has a game with his name on the title so hey. atleast you have more than geno fans

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I'd be totally fine with the other captains being alternates. Because in that case, they play exactly the same, not extremely minor tweaks. If Roy/Chrom/Lucina all got shoved into Marth's slot and were alts, I'd be fine with them too.

It's the same way I feel about Richter. Alt material. Ken? Alt material (though at least they made him faithful to his source material.

Making Ken an alt for Ryu is like making modern Luigi an alt for Mario

 

[Captain Fun]

Even though Lucina and Chrom use a different fighting style in Awakening?

Also, Roy isn't related to Marth...

Chrom taught Lucina to use a sword in Awakening. There's a scene where she uses one of his attacks and Chrom asks her who taught her how to fight.

Roy's just the way he is because Melee.

 

[Potato_]

I'm gonna call it right now boys, Bandai rep is a Dark Souls character.

Come back in 5 months or whatever when I'm right.

I don't actually expect any more FE characters, I just don't think you're being fair with your arguments. FE, for the better or the worse, has exploded into something far larger then it used to be in the recent years. They may not be as recognizable as Mario but they're far more recognizable within the gaming landscape then the likes of Katalina.

I think "deserving" has always beem a silly argument to use. FE is a character driven franchise with rotating orotagonists so there's going to be a lot of characters its fans want. That doesn't mean in needs to have a lot of characters, but it does help explain why it has more characters then LoZ, who's protagonists are Link, Link and Link, even despite the fact that FE doesn't even have a villain in the roster yet while Zelda has had theirs since Melee.

I personally hate the "waifu sim" elements of it btw, but sure, pretend that I'm just trying to get my "waifu" in.

I agree with you completely, but it does suck that Sakurai is so apprehensive about introducing a Zelda character that's outside of the Triforce trio. I have a feeling if it weren't for her massive popularity from Melee Sheik would've been cut sometime around Smash 4.

I personally think characters should be chosen on merit and not by if their franchise is "worthy", and Zelda has SO MANY characters that could make amazing movesets. So does Fire Emblem, which is why it sucks that we only get the sword lords and not people like Hector or Lyn with more varied gameplay.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Dark Pit is the one Echo fighter I think would make more sense as an alt. That's because, unlike every other Echo fighter, appearance-wise, he's literally a palette swap of Pit.

That said I really don't mind the Echo fighters anymore at all, mostly because they take little time to build. Their presence gives more while taking away...well, pretty much nothing at all. I can't complain about 'em.

 

[Will]

Fire Emblem deserves all the characters it has in Smash and plus a few more. You can't change my mind.

Listen, too much anime is just too much sometimes

Even though Lucina and Chrom use a different fighting style in Awakening?

We're talking about Smash, here. The same where Ness and Lucas have less moves they actually use in their own game versus the ones others do.

Roy isn't related to Marth...

Roy grew up to become a man and developed his own style.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm gonna call it right now boys, Bandai rep is a Dark Souls character.

Come back in 5 months or whatever when I'm right.



I agree with you completely, but it does suck that Sakurai is so apprehensive about introducing a Zelda character that's outside of the Triforce trio. I have a feeling if it weren't for her massive popularity from Melee Sheik would've been cut sometime around Smash 4.

I personally think characters should be chosen on merit and not by if their franchise is "worthy", and Zelda has SO MANY characters that could make amazing movesets.

I screencapped your post to check it if that happens.

And yes, Zelda has a lot of characters that would work great as fighters.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm gonna call it right now boys, Bandai rep is a Dark Souls character.

Come back in 5 months or whatever when I'm right.

Crash isn't owned by Bandai

 

[Deleted member]

Crash isn't owned by Bandai

Neither is Spyro from Dark Souls 2.

 

[Idon]

I'll be the first to say...

None of the Marth variants make sense, lore-wise.
At the same time though, they please those weird fans so I say it's a smart idea to put em in, either as echoes or Koopaling style alts.

Though I do wish every character on this roster was at least semi-unique, it probably isn't feasible.

 

[Deleted member]

Chrom taught Lucina to use a sword in Awakening. There's a scene where she uses one of his attacks and Chrom asks her who taught her how to fight.

Roy's just the way he is because Melee.

This isn't related to this post in particular but I'm tired of the "who taught you how to fight?" scene being used to argue that Chrom should be a Lucina Echo.
In Awakening, they both have different stats and animations, nothing they do is actuaply similar other than being Lords wielding Falchion. Just because someone taught you how to fight, doesn't mean you'll fight exactly like them.

 

[Raxxel]

Barely anyone in the American community knew her, but that's not the case in the Japanese community. Also, while this doesn't specifically apply to her, we don't have many female newcomers, or female characters in general, so more are welcomed

Bringing someone in because of their gender is dumb. Also, even still, if polls are anything to go off of, nobody in Japan is asking for her still.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

My hope for Skull Kid is much lower since it remains undetermined if ATs can't possibly become DLC fighters.

That said I'm really holding out hope for my favorite pirate, Tetra. I'm not remotely convinced that any-type of Spirits are ineligible for DLC.

Speaking of, what are some current thoughts on Tetra around these parts?

 

[Graizen]

And Hitagi said to me about the Game Awards as well...

I asked about the reveal rumored at the Game Awards and she said:

"uhhhh"
"i heard there was something"
"but i didn't hear if it was true and if it was true who it would be"

"i mean it would make sense"

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Looks like Hitagi is getting even more shaky after deconfirming her own claims.

Steve should be sweating, Banjo should be grinning

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, I found that Louie moveset.

Spoiler: Moveset

 

[Potato_]

I'll be the first to say...

None of the Marth variants make sense, lore-wise.
At the same time though, they please those weird fans so I say it's a smart idea to put em in, either as echoes or Koopaling style alts.

Though I do wish every character on this roster was at least semi-unique, it probably isn't feasible.

Exactly. In a perfect world we would get every alt with their own unique style, but it just doesn't work out development wise. I'd rather have Chrom the way he is then not have him in at all. Considering the echoes were clearly not the focus of development, I don't understand why their inclusion at all is a bad thing. At least they get SOMETHING that makes them unique.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Dark Pit is the one Echo fighter I think would make more sense as an alt. That's because, unlike every other Echo fighter, appearance-wise, he's literally a palette swap of Pit.

That said I really don't mind the Echo fighters anymore at all, mostly because they take little time to build. Their presence gives more while taking away...well, pretty much nothing at all. I can't complain about 'em.

Echoes also get different taunts and victory animations. Some of Pit's don't really fit Dark Pit's as a character, namely the goofy "peace sign" he does.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of, what are some current thoughts on Tetra around these parts?

Tetra would be neat, but my preferred Zelda character will always be Tingle.

 

[Graizen]

Looks like Hitagi is getting even more shaky after deconfirming her own claims.

Steve should be sweating, Banjo should be grinning

No shes not

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I don't actually expect any more FE characters, I just don't think you're being fair with your arguments. FE, for the better or the worse, has exploded into something far larger then it used to be in the recent years. They may not be as recognizable as Mario but they're far more recognizable within the gaming landscape then the likes of Katalina.

I think "deserving" has always beem a silly argument to use. FE is a character driven franchise with rotating orotagonists so there's going to be a lot of characters its fans want. That doesn't mean in needs to have a lot of characters, but it does help explain why it has more characters then LoZ, who's protagonists are Link, Link and Link, even despite the fact that FE doesn't even have a villain in the roster yet while Zelda has had theirs since Melee.

I personally hate the "waifu sim" elements of it btw, but sure, pretend that I'm just trying to get my "waifu" in.

Rotating protagonists or not, it doesn't really matter when they just copy/paste the moveset of the old onto the new and call it a day...
Robin is a fantastic addition that changed how I perceived it's representation in Smash. Corrin, as much as I hate them, at least has elements that make them distinct.

Even echoes like Ken and Daisy show off their personality through their animations and voices, but all the Fire Emblem clones just sound... the same! Bored, never showing emotion, same neutral expression on their face. If they were more expressive, and more unique, I wouldn't have a big problem with them, but the fact they have little to no character distinction is the biggest problem I have. To me, Lucina and Chrom are nothing more than glorified skins. And it's not exclusive to them - Pit and Dark Pit have the same problem, as do Richter to Simon. At least in those cases, the roster isn't padded out with more than two each. What I don't get is why Fire Emblem, which owes the majority of it's success in modern years to Smash, gets to just keep adding more and more fluff to a roster already packed with characters with much more color and liveliness. Have a look at Pokemon - each 'mon on the roster (sans Pichu) is completely different - they're also a franchise with a revolving cast of relevant 'mon. So why just keep padding with minor touches on the same tired old formula.

Hell, bump it down to just Marth/Ike/Robin/Corrin and I'd be totally fine with it (and I like Roy, but I get he doesn't bring much distinct to the table.)

 

[Will]

This isn't related to this post in particular but I'm tired of the "who taught you how to fight?" scene being used to argue that Chrom should be a Lucina Echo.
In Awakening, they both have different stats and animations, nothing they do is actuaply similar other than being Lords wielding Falchion. Just because someone taught you how to fight, doesn't mean you'll fight exactly like them.

Considering Chrom was going to be a Marth echo that got replaced by his own daughter in 4...
oops

 

[Deleted member]

This could have ruined my day, but i already lost hope =(

 

[Diem]

I'm gonna call it right now boys, Bandai rep is a Dark Souls character.

Come back in 5 months or whatever when I'm right.

I'm gonna double call it and say that it'll be Artorias. Not Solaire--he already just got an Amiibo, so putting him in Smash and getting another Amiibo would be redundant--and Artorias has potential to be a unique fighter in his own right.

Dark Pit is the one Echo fighter I think would make more sense as an alt. That's because, unlike every other Echo fighter, appearance-wise, he's literally a palette swap of Pit.

That said I really don't mind the Echo fighters anymore at all, mostly because they take little time to build. Their presence gives more while taking away...well, pretty much nothing at all. I can't complain about 'em.

Dark Pit was also probably inspired by the black alt costume in Brawl, so that's even how the character started.

I was desperate enough to accept Dark Samus as an alt costume, though. I got lucky.

 

[Will]

Steve should be sweating, Banjo should be grinning

This literally impacts nothing on either of their chances.

 

[Idon]

Cough just sayin they should probably add FE's most popular Lord bar none.

Give me Iaijutsu bandit hater lord, please.

 

[Graizen]

Aaaand...

She was very positive about Crono from Chrono Trigger... (She likes him)

Thats it.
Thats all i have for today.

 

[Deleted member]

I really thought this "clones steal slots" mentality was over but I guess I was incredibly naive.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Looks like Hitagi is getting even more shaky after deconfirming her own claims.

Steve should be sweating, Banjo should be grinning

Just because she got one thing wrong, doesn't mean every one of her claims are wrong

Remember Verg claiming Zero and Phoenix Wright?

 

[Potato_]

And Hitagi said to me about the Game Awards as well...

I asked about the reveal rumored at the Game Awards and she said:

"uhhhh"
"i heard there was something"
"but i didn't hear if it was true and if it was true who it would be"

"i mean it would make sense"

Interesting. Vergeben has stayed largely indifferent on the announcement claims, even going so far as to say to not believe SpawnWave (said he believed the Grinch leak even though he didn't). Wonder why the split between them on this.

Thanks Graizen!

 

[Deleted member]

Cough just sayin they should probably add FE's most popular Lord bar none.
View attachment 177808
Give me Iaijutsu bandit hater lord, please.

Why is Nowi in the top 10? This truly is the darkest timeline.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Interesting. Vergeben has stayed largely indifferent on the announcement claims, even going so far as to say to not believe SpawnWave (said he believed the Grinch leak even though he didn't). Wonder why the split between them on this.

Thanks Graizen!

They also split on Steve

 

[Will]

Cough just sayin they should probably add FE's most popular Lord bar none.
View attachment 177808
Give me Iaijutsu bandit hater lord, please.

>uses "most popular"
>references a female-only contest

I hope you like Hector.