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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.

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Iridium

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Not gonna lie, I would take a Lizalfo as a playable character if it meant more Zelda rep, even if it's just a generic enemy.

BOTW versions, of course.
 
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D

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The Legend Of Zelda: Majora Princess Of Wind and Time’s Sword At The Past Adventure Of Link.
 
MalcolmBelmont

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Legendary Spirit Tamer said:
The problem is the first two games were not heavy on story either. Most remember these two as they were the first two available in the US and defined the series too.

3 is when we first meet Erdrick, if I remember right. And I had to watch a LP to remotely get that story.

The monsters are vastly more memorable because they're more consistent in appearances. That's a very important thing people forget; just having characterization isn't enough to make a character memorable alone. Them having more appearances is what makes them notable too.

Slime is very easy to remember because not only does it get characterization in some games, but it's a highly memorable design, used in crossovers too, and shows up pretty much everywhere. Something no Hero(of which only what... one has an actual name? Where the rest are just stand-ins?). This isn't like a lot of the other characters who are more "generic" in Smash either. They're 1st party and don't need to be highly specific characters to make it easy for people to want them in. Erdrick is literally the only hero that isn't generic, and not even as recognizable as the series' mascot.

It absolutely makes sense to choose the mascot of the series before the more generic player character. Especially in a 3rd party franchise that is unlikely to get more than one character. Slime absolutely helped make DQ iconic, though. It's a big part of how people know what the series is. And yes, being the mascot definitely makes it prime for representing the whole series if it can do most of it. The only thing it can't do, is what, equipment? That's not all of what makes DQ awesome. It has a huge spell and ability list that is available for tons of Classes, exactly what Slime actually is able to do. He can learn almost everything in the game, something that a Hero can only do because they're sometimes allowed to be other Classes. This is where Slime shines, because it has the bigger recognizability factor and can do pretty much everything but use a weapon. Not like it needs one. It can learn the Cut techniques too, which is all you need for a few sword moves.

It's like putting a Pokemon Trainer instead of Pikachu in first. That doesn't make sense. Pikachu is the series mascot and way more recognizable. People barely knew Red compared to his anime counterpart Ash. It's to the point that people say Ash is playable in Smash because it's pretty much the same basic design(just with some slight differences for the Generation 1 outfit). Never mind that just about all the general protagonists in Pokemon got some costume colors for Pokemon Trainer, who also happen to appear in the Anime. People care about it for the Pokemon. Just throwing in a Generic Class doesn't work well as the first character for a series. Not if they aren't highly recognizable. As for moveset potential, they're both extremely well enough in representing the series' overall gameplay. It's not like equipment is the only thing DQ did, and it's something that came from Computer RPG's and DnD first. It's really the spells and abilities along with the A Wild Monster Appears gameplay screen. Besides, the monster aspect was huge enough for a full-out DQ spin-off as if based around it. Where Slime was pretty much the starter no matter what(at least the first game. I forget if Tara's Adventure and Cobi's Journey did that) and a full character with dialogue. Your avatar character was... not all that notable at all.

You have to remember that while yes, the heroes do have some characteristics(due to story and lore, of which Monsters still play a role in anyway), that doesn't make them highly memorable to any large degree. Honestly, some might just think "are you sure that's not a DBZ character?" instead. That cannot be said about Slime, who vastly is more recognizable. It's like pretending Nightmare isn't the most iconic Soul Calibur character despite not being remotely the Hero(or one of them in the story). He's the mascot. Fulgore's another example, of the same situation. He's the mascot of the series and most recognizable(though unlike with Soul Calibur, Jago at least is notable too, just not to the same degree. Kind of Erdrick). If it weren't for me playing the remakes, I wouldn't even know Erdrick's name isn't Loto. Meanwhile people know who Slime is, without needing to play a remake just to learn the correct name.

But let's get back to the "general character" part. Ness is a poor example. He's a well-defined character to begin with and not a class. He shows off all the series' moves to some degree for the sake of representing the series well. Nothing that Slime can't do either. If the worry is equipment... have Slime Knight appear in some moves. Problem solved. There's nothing really that makes Erdrick better moveset-wise than Slime does either. They have the same capabilities, and since it's not like a monster could never equip something, at worst you aren't seeing the same usual armor and sword exactly, yet still seeing similar enough abilities. Somebody also mentioned Link; he's a defined character, it's just a different person often. It's not even like Pokemon Trainer, who is less defined in comparison. I mean, Brawl didn't even use Red, it just used his design. The whole point was to make him an avatar character for players to use while focusing on what mattered, the Pokemon. Miis are yet another interesting case of being a generic avatar. They also were in tons of games and highly recognizable for who they were, despite being generic. The problem with the "generics are already in Smash" in that sense is that it doesn't work for Erdrick. He himself is defined, but not super iconic like the mascot is. Using the mascot is smarter than just the protagonist alone. You want the character to be recognizable(especially for DLC) to the majority. Erdrick doesn't fit the bell like Slime does. And I guess I missed Villager; it's not like there was actually anybody else who could properly representing AC. Not even Isabelle does in Smash. She has her own vast abilities, and wouldn't be able to do some things(which was somewhat ignored). She still plays differently because she's not meant to be the player character. The actual point of using a protagonist isn't really because they're the player character. It's because they're very often good at representing the game's normal gameplay. Slime and Erdrick both can do that. The "lore of the series" isn't all that important to transfer to Smash. The gameplay is. And... both do that just fine. In the end, the only real difference between choosing them is who is more recognizable, since their capabilities are equivalent.

But like I said, choosing the Pikachu(mascot) of the series has been done before. If it can show off the gameplay of the series in some way, but is also feasible. There was no way Pikachu wouldn't have gotten in first. If PT would be in, it'd be with Pikachu. Slime has always been in that position, being used for other crossovers too. You generally use the mascot because they're still important to the series overall. Mascots also often get their own spin-off games because they're that important. ...Does Erdrick even have his own spin-off? Does any Hero? Because Slime does. That's kind of important when determining who is the most important character, who they are and what they've brought to the series. Being an icon helps too. And helping define rpg's to come(there's a reason why Slime-type enemies exist now. Slime is the reason why. It also got updated to make them more than 2 HP mooks, like being immune to certain weapons, being made of poison, etc.)
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I completely agree with this, Slime would be a more likely pick because of how well known he is in Japan (he is marketed everywhere) plus it would make for a far more interesting moveset then just another swordfighter
 
CaptainAmerica

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Jetsurge said:
Better game than Twilight Bore
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Twilight Princess was awesome! I'm so disappointed that we lost all remnants of TP in Smash. At least give us alternate costumes based on that.

And if there is to be a new Zelda game, please make Link a lefty again. I'm tired of this BS.

Also, in terms of a Zelda newcomer, Urbosa is the best possible answer don't @ me.
 
D

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In all seriousness, I think the “worst” Zelda title is Wind Waker. I commend this game’s art, but the sailing and dungeons absolutely killed that game for me.

I’ve hear Phantom Hourglass is worse though.
 
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CaptainAmerica said:
Twilight Princess was awesome! I'm so disappointed that we lost all remnants of TP in Smash. At least give us alternate costumes based on that.

And if there is to be a new Zelda game, please make Link a lefty again. I'm tired of this BS.

Also, in terms of a Zelda newcomer, Urbosa is the best possible answer don't @ me.
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>Takes out the Twilight Princess stuff from Ultimate except the stage.
>Keeps everything related to Other M except the stage (only good thing from that game in Smash 4).
 
Iridium

Iridium

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CaptainAmerica said:
Twilight Princess was awesome! I'm so disappointed that we lost all remnants of TP in Smash. At least give us alternate costumes based on that.

And if there is to be a new Zelda game, please make Link a lefty again. I'm tired of this BS.

Also, in terms of a Zelda newcomer, Urbosa is the best possible answer don't @ me.
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Yeah, it's a bit conflicting for me. At least Link and Zelda got alts that at least resemble their TP looks, if that means anything. I like them regardless, but perhaps a new Zelda character from TP would be nice. Zant?
 
KingBroly

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Alastor017 said:
In all seriousness, I think the “worst” Zelda title is Wind Waker. I commend this game’s art, but the sailing and dungeons absolutely killed that game for me.

I’ve hear Phantom Hourglass is worse though.
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Spirit Tracks is worse

But Triforce Heroes is THE worst
 
KirbyWorshipper2465

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MalcolmBelmont said:
I completely agree with this, Slime would be a more likely pick because of how well known he is in Japan (he is marketed everywhere) plus it would make for a far more interesting moveset then just another swordfighter
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Just about everyone would be more interesting than the Heroes, even Terry has his tenure as a monster trainer going for him.
 
lltacx

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Alastor017 said:
In all seriousness, I think the “worst” Zelda title is Wind Waker. I commend this game’s art, but the sailing and dungeons absolutely killed that game for me.

I’ve hear Phantom Hourglass is worse though.
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Really? I am the complete opposite, The Windwaker for me is the best in the series. I loved traveling the seas, finding islands to explore. The music for me is the best in the franchise, it has so much heart. I love that Link isn't the chosen one but proved himself to get the Triforce of Courage. He killed Ganondorf in a gruesome way.

The only thing i didn't like and i guess that's general around the board is finding the triforce pieces in the sea.

Man i can't stop playing this game.
 
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lltacx said:
Really? I am the complete opposite, The Windwaker for me is the best in the series. I loved traveling the seas, finding islands to explore. The music for me is the best in the franchise, it has so much heart. I love that Link isn't the chosen one but proved himself to get the Triforce of Courage. He killed Ganondorf in a gruesome way.

The only thing i didn't like and i guess that's general around the board is finding the triforce pieces in the sea.

Man i can't stop playing this game.
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Yeah, Wind Waker just didn't click with me. Breath of The Wild, Majora's Mask, and A Link Between Worlds FTW.
 
viewtifulduck82

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Opossum said:
I don't see how. They seem to have swept the little guy under the rug.

I love the little dude but he's from a series that's far from consistent, never mind successful.
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He's got more games than some of the characters already on the roster, is still relevant, and just got a mii outfit and spirit in this game. Up from basically no series represntation. I'm honestly surprised he's just now getting attention in smash because he has been present each Nintendo console generation since his inception.

His games haven't done well financially, but those all stem from store exclusivity deals, poor release times, and drastically changing the games original formula.

I feel Nintendo has been trying plenty of different things to push this character on us and smash would be the next logical step. If Nintendo is deciding dlc, the characters picked will more than likely be picks that promote series or advertise future games. I think pushing chibi robo here would do the franchise a lot of help, and could potentially save the series for them.

Idk man. Makes sense in my head, but I could just be thinking this way to appease myself lmao
 
Wyoming

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Alastor017 said:
In all seriousness, I think the “worst” Zelda title is Wind Waker. I commend this game’s art, but the sailing and dungeons absolutely killed that game for me.

I’ve hear Phantom Hourglass is worse though.
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Boy you did not just diss Windwaker.
 
Wyoming

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Alastor017 said:
Yes. Yes I did. It's the worst console Zelda. :p
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Not with Skyword Sword laying around it's not.

It's honestly my favorite. It has aged a bit yes but graphically and control wise nowhere near as bad as the original OoT and MM.
 
TMNTSSB4

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Red has a very Sm4sh-Fox like voice in Ultimate...looks like Leaf is the only one I’ll be using whenever Inplay PMT
Alastor017 said:
In all seriousness, I think the “worst” Zelda title is Wind Waker. I commend this game’s art, but the sailing and dungeons absolutely killed that game for me.

I’ve hear Phantom Hourglass is worse though.
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Opposite side on this one, cause I believe Wind Waker (OG and HD remake) are one of the best Zelda games of all time, along with BOTW, OoT, MM, and MC...Minish Cap
JDCabrera said:
The worst Zelda titles aren’t on a Nintendo console... But on CDi.

I personally found Crossbow Training as a decent minor game, doh.
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MAH BOI...you will DIE...YOU MUST DIE...memable quotes atleast
Wyoming said:
Not with Skyword Sword laying around it's not.

It's honestly my favorite. It has aged a bit yes but graphically and control wise nowhere near as bad as the original OoT and MM.
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it’s age loos unnoticeable in HD
 
CaptainAmerica

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Wind Waker was tough for me to get into because I am a huge fan of the more gritty realistic ones, so the cartoony version was horrendous. I played it for a bit, and then I had to deal with Tingle and I dropped that game so fast.

Once the WiiU remake fixed that issue, I could actually deal with it. Still not a huge fan, but the music is fantastic. I'm really happy that we're getting Pirate Ship back - hopefully the Molgera song is back (or better, the glorious HW version)

I do wish that Tink had gotten some WW-inspired moves - like the grappling hook instead of a hookshot (I know that Tink had a hookshot in WW, but it was one of last things he got), the Deku Leaf as an uSpecial that works like Peach's, etc.
 
D

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So, are there any Smash Ultimate streams happening right now?
Wyoming said:
Not with Skyword Sword laying around it's not.

It's honestly my favorite. It has aged a bit yes but graphically and control wise nowhere near as bad as the original OoT and MM.
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Nah fam. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are on the lower end of my Zelda games tier list.

I like Skyward Sword. Fi was annyoing, but other than that, it was a good game.

My Zelda list goes like this:
#1. Breath of The Wild
#2. Majora's Mask
#3. A Link Between Worlds
#4. Ocarina of Time/A Link To The Past
#5. Skyward Sword
 
D

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The best “Zelda” game will always be Freshly-Picked Tingle’s Rosy Rupeeland.
 
Opossum

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Also I had a weird Smash-related dream last night. I dream a lot, and it's very rarely about Smash, but when I do it's never normal lol. John Marston was announced at The Game Awards. All I remember was one of his moves was a Spaghetti-Western styled ricocheting bullet and one of his alternate costumes was based on Woody.

Yeah.
 
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