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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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TheLastJinjo

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Villains are definitely something that Smash is sorely missing.

I’m dying to see K. Rool finally get in, and I would also really like Marx, Black Knight, Skull Kid, and of course, ya boi Ridley. (i’ll never give up the dream)
It doesn't bother me. I don't wanna have villains just for the sake of having villains. It doesn't matter how many you add, people are always gonna complain there's not enough because they would be less than a quarter of the roster.

I'm content with what we have now, because while King Dedede, Meta Knight, and Mewtwo aren't necessarily villains, they have been very bad ass antagonists in some of their appearances like Kirby's Dreamland, Kirby Superstar, and Pokemon: The First Movie.
 

Chandeelure

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Kamek is the only villain I desperately want. I love his design. His long sleeves and glasses. He's one of my favorite villains in video games.

It'd be really cool to have him riding a broom accompanied by a swarm of Toadies. I love the Toadies. And it's beneficial as these are the two things that differentiate Kamek from the other Magikoopas.
When I was younger I thought Kamek was female, and also a parrot, for some reason lol.

I've seen normal Magikoopas using brooms, in Paper Mario TTYD.
 

CBO0tz

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Speaking of villains, every Smash game (except the original, although Bowser was planned) has added at least one villain.
Brawl:wolf:
You forgot Dedede and Meta Knight.

In regards to villains, I don't really think a lot of villains are iconic enough.. or interesting enough for that matter.

I'd rather have K. Rool or Ridley over Eggman. You could theorize like dozens of potential movesets for Eggman bc he's a genius scientist, but you'd basically be trying to reinvent the wheel.
 

Bowserlick

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Brawl speculation Andross moveset
The ape would wear a belt with gadgets, devices, and potions holstered and strapped on. He would have a leather vest with a V neck split to allow his furry chest hair to stick out. Also goggles would be mounted on his hair and he would have a black cloak. Andross would also have metal gloves with thrusters located on the palm. The thrusters would act kinda like jetpacks allowing Andross to jump high and float a little of the floor like Mewtwo. The thrusters would also allow him to propel his punches, making him stronger then he would be. He would be a floaty character unless you press down while he was in the air. Then the engines would shut off and the metal gloves would make him a fast faller.

Walk: His hands would be at his sides with the thrusters on. Blue fire would expel from his palms and he would slowly foot a few inches off the ground toward his oppenent.

Run: Andross holds his hands behind him and the thrusters shoot out longer flames propelling Andross forward at a high speed similar to Pichu's. Terrible at quick turns.

Running A: Andross would bring his hands forward to clap at the enemy. The movement of his thruster enabled gloves would make his jolt backwards a little distance as he clapped. Sends oppenent forward. Good for setting some distance between fighters.

A: Punch
AA: Punch and then extended palm
AAA: Punch, then extended palm, then another extended palm
AAAA:punch, one extended palm plant, then another, then the thrusters would turn on really quick propelling Andross backwards a few feet.

>A: Andross hovers with hands at the side and kicks at the oppenent

^A: Andross uppercuts, thruster turns on, and Andross lifts a foot higher off the floor before thruster snaps off and he descends back into hovering position, when the thruster turns back on.

Duck: Thrusters turn off and Andross crouches on the floor.
Down A: Thrusters turn on quickly, making Andross to a quick spin while crouching with one foot stuck out. Accelerated Sweep kick.

Forward Smash: Swings one arm around in a full circle with thruster on leaving a trail of fire. Metal fist crashes to the floor. If A is pressed again, his other glove thruster will turn on and repeat the pattern going forward.

Down Smash: Andross clasps his gloves together and hammerfists the ground making the floor ripple in a set circumference around him. Sends oppenents upwards. Some rocks and debris might pop up and hover a foot in the air for a few seconds after for effect only.

Up Smash: Andross Machine gun punches upward, juggiling the oppenent

Down B: Andross's cape whirls outward. Flat Metal rectangles come flying out from the background and form steps for Andross to walk on. Five blocks come out. Andross can walk back and forth or just one way or even diagnol. This could be used to make a cieling so oppenents can't jump upward to get back on stage. Andross falls afterwards and can't use moves until he hits the ground.

Forward B: Andross throws a Vortex Grenade from his belt. It explodes after seven seconds. Could be picked up and thrown by others. Only one Grenade could be on the floor at a time. When it explodes it makes a blackish blue sphere which sucks in anyone nearby including Andross. Radius like Kirby's except all the way around the sphere. Does damage and keeps person in place like Young Link's Up B spin. Good way to trap oppenents.

B: Andross extends both palms forward and a green grid shaped like a metal rectangle block shoots out. If B is pressed while the green grid is going forward it will solidify into a metal step rotating forward in the air. If it hits an oppenent it will smash and do damage to the enemy. If the oppenent has a high percentage it might carry the enemy with it for a few moments before cracking and exploding. Only one could be out at a time.

Up B: Andross does a backflip and disappears into a blue vortex. You could angle the direction of his reapperance like Zelda's Up B. Except it is about half as long.

Air Battle:

Nuetral A: Does a Midair flip similar to Captain Falcon's Up A. But much weaker.
Forward A: Midair slap with metal glove.
Backward A: Andross extends one arm backwards and his glove spews out a spout of fire to rack up damage on oppenent. Sends Andross forwards a little.
Down A: Does a split in the air with his legs and throws one heavy gloved hand downwards between open legs. Meteor Smash.
Up A: Andross reaches upward with a metal glove in a grabbing motion. If he hits an oppenent he throws them downward. Down throw is weak, oppenent goes underneath Andross setting him up for a down A move.

Andross Throws: Grabs oppenent with metal glove.
A: Burns oppenent with thrusters on glove.
Forward: Skids forward on feet briefly before swinging his arm in a full circle still clutching the enemy and finally releasing him forward in an arch. A little further then Mario's forward throw but due to arch harder to die from.
Backward: Quick throw backwards. Straight trajectory.
Downward: Throws oppenent to the ground and machine gun punches their body until they jolt upwards.
Upward: Andross teleports the oppenent a few feet above him. Oppenent disappears in a flash of blue and then a portal opens above Andross. At this point the oppenent could jump or attack once he or she exits teleport.
 

TheLastJinjo

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When I was younger I thought Kamek was female, and also a parrot, for some reason lol.

I've seen normal Magikoopas using brooms, in Paper Mario TTYD.
To this day, I still mistakenly refer to Kamek as "her".

If Star Allies came out and the Marx update happened sooner I’d agree, but I doubt Sakurai knew that Marx would be reintroduced into a new Kirby game when he made the roster.

However, I’m hopeful that the reception to his inclusion as a Dream Friend will show both HAL and Sakurai that there’s still a big fan base for the little guy, and maybe he’d have a shot at being DLC.

I kinda doubt it though, especially since Sakurai has said he doesn’t like overrepresenting Kirby, and Bandana Waddle Dee still kinda has to be added before any one-time villains, no matter how popular.

But, Marx is still Sakurai’s own creation, and he’s shown bias towards his own Kirby content specifically, so maybe that’ll help him.

Brb gotta add Marx to my signature.
I agree it's too late to add Marx, but I disagree that Waddle Dee would be have to be added first if Marx is both more popular and more interesting. That's kind of a winning combination.
 

Sonic Poke

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Adding villains for the sake of it isn't a great idea. And am just about one of the most loyal K.Rool supporters here.

K.Rool and Wolf returning would already be fine. Assuming anything else stays. Ganon is also a great option but not a likely one.

Ridley? You saw yesterday's April Fools special right? That's just about what Ridley's chances of inclusion is about.
I do think Sakurai is a troll and the Ridley may have a shot. He refused Pac-Man, Villager and Miis in Brawl. And he had very specific reasons for not including them. Reasons that were made public just like Ridley's.

Actually, the reason for not including the Villager in Brawl was the same for not including Ridley in SSB4. It would be out of character. But we all know how it ended.

Lol, but when I say he has a shot, I mean a slingshot not a cannon.
 

-crump-

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It doesn't bother me. I don't wanna have villains just for the sake of having villains. It doesn't matter how many you add, people are always gonna complain there's not enough because they would be less than a quarter of the roster.

I'm content with what we have now, because while King Dedede, Meta Knight, and Mewtwo aren't necessarily villains, they have been very bad *** antagonists in some of their appearances like Kirby's Dreamland, Kirby Superstar, and Pokemon: The First Movie.
I disagree. Of course I understand that not every series in Smash needs it’s antagonist, but there are so many prominent choices that have been skipped over, and with such a huge roster, it feels absurd that we have literally 3 “true villains”. I get that Smash is about bringing together Nintendo’s icons, but there are plenty of villains who have easily earned that status.

Plus, playing as the bad guy is one of the things that is so rarely possible in gaming, and you would think Smash would be a perfect place for that. :ohwell:
 
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Lukingordex

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I disagree. Of course I understand that not every series in Smash needs it’s antagonist, but there are so many prominent choices that have been skipped over, and with such a huge roster, it feels absurd that we have literally 3 “true villains”. I get that Smash is about bringing together Nintendo’s icons, but there are plenty of villains who have easily earned that status.

Plus, playing as the bad guy is one of the things that is so rarely possible in gaming, and you would think Smash would be a perfect place for that. :ohwell:
At this point i feel like Sakurai doesn't really mind much about the villain status when considering characters
 

Starcutter

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This will kinda be off topic, but I can't wait to play smash with THIS JAM playing in the background.

The final map of Shadows of Valentia was so hype, and it was 100% due to this music
 
D

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You know, Sakurai has added a third party character from almost every single major Japanese gaming company. Sega, Konami, Capcom, Namco and Square Enix.

The only other major japanese Third Party company that i can think of that comes close to any of the ones i have named is Tecmo Koei.

Im not saying that we are getting a Tecmo Koei character (i may just be looking too much into this whole "japanese gaming company" thing) but it's something that i wanted to mention.
 

Lyndis_

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My Wanted Villains:
- (Pig) Ganon
- Hades
- Black Shadow (taking Ganondorf's moveset.)
- Ridley and/or Sylux
- Porky Minch
- King K. Rool

If we ever got third party additions to existing series I personally think M. Bison, Bass, and Eggman are my favorite choices.

In no particular order. I would also like Wolf to return.
I'm aware it's a fairly ridiculous amount, I have no excuse other than I'd enjoy having a lot of new villains and I don't expect we'd get all (or possibly any) of them in one game.

Definitely not a conventional villain, but I think having Louie replacing Alph as an Olimar skin would be great.
Alph would become a clone and likely have a Brittany skin.
 
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Sonic Poke

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Guys, who is this Marx ur all talking of? I am sincerely oblivious to this character. The only one I know is the one I used to study on sociology classes. I bet Sakurai can think if a moveset for him btw.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I love the idea of playing as Villains.

...However, there's more to the character than that when choosing them. Making the moveset fun and interesting to play works well. Ganondorf only got in due to luckily being a clone(which still fits his personality, at least). Mewtwo is barely one, at least compared to Bowser and Ganondorf. We don't really have many villains, at least true ones.

But that's okay. There's more to choosing characters than their role in their games. Albeit, it makes sense to choose the main playable character first, or at least consider them first. They're the player role, so they represent the game itself and who people would immediately know of first.
 

Mega Bidoof

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Give Andross a body and large metallic gloves with thrusters.

Tight clothes would make his head and gloves appear proportionally larger as a nod to his boss appearance as a planet sized head.
They really shouldn’t give Andross a body when he hasn’t been featured prominently with one.

Apparently he had a model with a body in StarFox Zero, and I’m seeing pics of it online, but I played Zero and totally missed it.

Humanoid Andross just wouldn’t be Andross, unless a future StarFox game decides to give him one.

What makes you say that?
The fact that he’s a main character of the series now, so much so to the point that Star Allies states that outright, and it was stated a second time in a developer news channel update.
 
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Guys, who is this Marx ur all talking of? I am sincerely oblivious to this character. The only one I know is the one I used to study on sociology classes. I bet Sakurai can think if a moveset for him btw.
Marx is a character from the Kirby series, specifically debuting in Kirby Super Star where he is the Final Boss of the subgame Milky Way Wishes (and he is basically the Final Boss of Super Star as a whole)


He recently returned in Kirby Star Allies as a playable character and selectable ally.
 
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PeridotGX

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Guys, who is this Marx ur all talking of? I am sincerely oblivious to this character. The only one I know is the one I used to study on sociology classes. I bet Sakurai can think if a moveset for him btw.
Marx, the final boss of Kirby Super Star. He was good, but then he betrayed him. Kirby then killed him. Kirby then killed his ghost. In Star Allies he's back as Kirby's friend and nobody is questioning it.
 

Danpal65

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Guys, who is this Marx ur all talking of? I am sincerely oblivious to this character. The only one I know is the one I used to study on sociology classes. I bet Sakurai can think if a moveset for him btw.
Oh y'know a super family friendly Kirby character:

 

CatRaccoonBL

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I agree it's too late to add Marx, but I disagree that Waddle Dee would be have to be added first if Marx is both more popular and more interesting. That's kind of a winning combination.
Well I mean that leads to one problem. We have no evidence to suggest how popular Marx is. We do however know that Bandana Dee has usually ranked decently high in popularity polls especially in japanese ones. Here's one example: https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/

There is also the matter that we don't know if Marx popularity will last. It could be hype just because he has had a major appearence. It could die down once the next batch of dream friends are revealed. Meanwhile, Bandana Dee's support has still been going strong even after smash 4 speculation.

I've also seen plenty of casual youtubers mention a desire for him.
 
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Tree Gelbman

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Eggman is the ONLY third party villain who deserves to be in Smash. Fight me. No one else comes close to deserving it.
 

Mega Bidoof

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I do think Sakurai is a troll and the Ridley may have a shot. He refused Pac-Man, Villager and Miis in Brawl. And he had very specific reasons for not including them. Reasons that were made public just like Ridley's.

Actually, the reason for not including the Villager in Brawl was the same for not including Ridley in SSB4. It would be out of character. But we all know how it ended.

Lol, but when I say he has a shot, I mean a slingshot not a cannon.
I agree with you saying that Sakurai does go back on things he says, rethinking characters have gave reasons for not including in the past, and I agree that Ridley isn’t out of the question because of something Sakurai said nearly 4 years ago. However him being “a troll” has nothing to do with that.

There’s a difference between someone rethinking a decision they made and then realizing they may be mistaken, and someone intentionally f-ing with people.

When Sakurai gave his reasons for not including Villager, Pac-Man, and Miis in Brawl, he wasn’t lying or messing with anyone to throw them off the path. He was being genuine, and the same goes for what he said about Ridley. I’m 100% certain that in fall of 2014, Sakurai genuinely thought Ridley was too big. Whether he still holds that belief now is yet to be seen.
 

GaroMaster

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Amidst all of this villain talk, I find the lack of Fawful to be disturbing.
He may be from Mario spin offs, but that does not take away the fact that Fawful has built quite a legacy as the villain of the Mario & Luigi series.
Could be a wacky and very surprising addition, in my opinion.
 

Mega Bidoof

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I mean so is Toad.
Exactly, and a popular one-off character like Geno has yet to be included over him. Only other main and recurring characters like Bowser Jr. and Rosalina (who was appearing a lot back when Smash 4’s roster was decided, in both Galaxy games, 3D World, and pretty much every spin-off) were included over him.
 

Senselessbreak

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Amidst all of this villain talk, I find the lack of Fawful to be disturbing.
He may be from Mario spin offs, but that does not take away the fact that Fawful has built quite a legacy as the villain of the Mario & Luigi series.
Could be a wacky and very surprising addition, in my opinion.
Hes tossed around from time to time, but the Mario series is extremely competitive with newcomers (Toad, Waluigi, Geno, Paper Mario, etc)

In fact, Fawful would have to beat out the popularity of Paper Mario and Geno as Mario RPG rep before he'd be taken serious.
 

Sonic Poke

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I agree with you saying that Sakurai does go back on things he says, rethinking characters have gave reasons for not including in the past, and I agree that Ridley isn’t out of the question because of something Sakurai said nearly 4 years ago. However him being “a troll” has nothing to do with that.

There’s a difference between someone rethinking a decision they made and then realizing they may be mistaken, and someone intentionally f-ing with people.

When Sakurai gave his reasons for not including Villager, Pac-Man, and Miis in Brawl, he wasn’t lying or messing with anyone to throw them off the path. He was being genuine, and the same goes for what he said about Ridley. I’m 100% certain that in fall of 2014, Sakurai genuinely thought Ridley was too big. Whether he still holds that belief now is yet to be seen.
I didn't mean troll in a bad way. I mean a person that puts Wii Fit Trainer as a playable character kind of of troll. The good kind of troll. Dunno if u understand what I mean lol.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Exactly, and a popular one-off character like Geno has yet to be included over him. Only other main and recurring characters like Bowser Jr. and Rosalina (who was appearing a lot back when Smash 4’s roster was decided, in both Galaxy games, 3D World, and pretty much every spin-off) were included over him.
I wasn't talking about Marx.
 

Mega Bidoof

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Guys, who is this Marx ur all talking of? I am sincerely oblivious to this character. The only one I know is the one I used to study on sociology classes. I bet Sakurai can think if a moveset for him btw.
A character from Kirby Super Star who starts off seeming to be an ally and tricks Kirby into doing a thing that ends up in Marx becoming super powerful.

He was just recently added to Star Allies in a free update as a “Dream Friend” you can summon as a helper or Player 2, and can also be played as in other modes.

His Star Allies trailer will give you a pretty good idea of what he’s about and might look like in Smash.
 
D

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I know Smash Bros. needs villains.
Just add King K. Rool and Wolf and I am all happy. :)
Even if Wolf is considered a rival. :p
Smash 4's lack of villains was something I did not like very much.
I feel like Fire Emblem especially REALLY needs to tone down the counters for literally all but 1 character.

Like I get it, counter-attacking is a big part of FE. But that doesn't mean everyone needs one. Just leave it to Marth, and give the others something special.

They had something going with Robin but then Corrin had to waltz in being a Lord and therefore apparently demanding a counter.

Of course the problem with that is two of the FE characters are Marth Clones. Still.
I know, I mean it is getting repetitve where almost all of the FE characters have a just "hit counter".
If they add another FE character, I hope they try to restrict from counters. :p
 

PeridotGX

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Amidst all of this villain talk, I find the lack of Fawful to be disturbing.
He may be from Mario spin offs, but that does not take away the fact that Fawful has built quite a legacy as the villain of the Mario & Luigi series.
Could be a wacky and very surprising addition, in my opinion.
I'd really like him, but I have fury at his odds. Aside from Remakes, his last major role was mid-DS era. That and the fact there are so many other Mario characters makes a sandwich of sadness.
 

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I think a good addition from the Fire Emblem universe could be Tiki, especially if Corrin doesn't come back. She's a recurring character who was in both the original Fire Emblem and she reappeared in Awakening, which as we all know was the game that saved the series. Should Corrin not return, Tiki would be a wonderful addition to represent the ever-present Manakete/Dragon character archetype due to her looming presence across the series. I feel she'd be a great way to help diversify the Fire Emblem cast as well.
 
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GaroMaster

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Hes tossed around from time to time, but the Mario series is extremely competitive with newcomers (Toad, Waluigi, Geno, Paper Mario, etc)

In fact, Fawful would have to beat out the popularity of Paper Mario and Geno as Mario RPG rep before he'd be taken serious.
Oh, I realize that. I just think that Fawful has made a number of appearances to the point that he is in this awkward place where he is neither a one-off or a series regular.
Oh, and he is a pretty cool villain.
Eggman is the ONLY third party villain who deserves to be in Smash. Fight me. No one else comes close to deserving it.
Agreed. There may be villains such as Sephiroth and M. Bison who are more threatening or Dr. Wily who has more of a legacy as an antagonistic scientist, but Eggman would just feel right at home in Smash. He's got the wacky look and ego and the potential rivalry with Bowser would be hard to pass up.
 

Danpal65

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I think a good addition from the Fire Emblem universe could be Tiki, especially if Corrin doesn't come back. She's a recurring character who was in both the original Fire Emblem and she reappeared in Awakening, which as we all know was the game that saved the series. Should Corrin not return, Tiki would be a wonderful addition to represent the ever-present Manakete/Dragon character archetype due to her looming presence across the series. I feel she'd be a great way to help diversify the Fire Emblem cast as well.
She is also a lot less unsettling when in dragon form. Whenever Corrin is a dragon the way she/he basically walks around on her knuckles is just creepy.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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She is also a lot less unsettling when in dragon form. Whenever Corrin is a dragon the way she/he basically walks around on her knuckles is just creepy.
The Knuckled Deer is by far my least favorite "Dragon" design I've ever seen.
 

Swamp Sensei

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I saw someone call King Dedede and Meta Knight villains.

Now they have been antagonists but their good deeds WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY overshadow their bad.

Calling them villains is a disservice to the characters.
 
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