Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Luigi The President]

Nintendo is a business. A business's number one goal is to make money.

Now tell me - who's going to make more money for Nintendo:
A. Sora, the protagonist of a critically acclaimed series whose series' fans are thirsty for more and who is known to millions simply due to association with the number one brand in the world whose series is at it's hypest right now.
B. Geno, an obscure character who appeared in one game 20+ years ago and who has a small yet dedicated fanbase; who wasn't even the main character of said game.
C. A character from Fire Emblem, which is in and of itself still incredibly niche compared to other strategy games. I guarantee you more people know of Clash of Clans than Fire Emblem.

Literally why is a Fire Emblem character in this equation

Sora is gonna make SQUARE ENIX more money. Sora is gonna make people go to KH3 which is on almost every console EXCEPT Nintendo ones.
Geno will exclusively make Nintendo money. His game is only on Nintendo consoles.

Geno's small yet dedicated fanbase got him a Mii costume and numerous shout-outs from Sakurai, so are you sure his fanbase is that small? Let's not plug our ears now.

I'm just saying that, Sora, while very popular, would take a LOT of money to even contract and his inclusion would benefit Squenix much more than Nintendo.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

To be fair, this is Smash. Not Mario Kart. Characters function entirely differently in this game then they do in the other. Smash is a cross-over series in which the roster is one of the selling points. As for Mario Kart, the main selling point comes from the gameplay and gimmicks. Certain characters like Pink Gold Peach and Metal Mario are put in because they take less development time and occupy different weight classes. Most Mario fans are already satisfied with the characters in the Mario Kart roster.

One of the most common complaints in Mario Kart 8 was the fact that the roster was very weak. Paid DLC somewhat remedied that.
I am simply warning that Nintendo has managed to be out of touch when it comes to characters inclusions.

Even if Sakurai got to choose the list of characters. He didn't create the list of characters. There are very real chances that Geno / Banjo etc. were left out because Nintendo themselves see little value in adding them when they could just go mainstream

 

[Zinith]

ho guys...it's been 3 or 4 hours...
i just finished my "smash bros paty ultimate cards.

we will be playing SMASH BROS with these cards that i will print on cardboard...
:-) i got many many mores but i show you some examples... both side will be print.

View attachment 176380

Why does "No Humans Allowed" not have my boi?

 

[Maxoxpower]

Why does "No Humans Allowed" not have my boi?

i just put some examples ..but for you . will add it right now!!

IF you guys got more ideas... give me! i take it

 

[Deleted member]

Literally why is a Fire Emblem character in this equation

Sora is gonna make SQUARE ENIX more money. Sora is gonna make people go to KH3 which is on almost every console EXCEPT Nintendo ones.
Geno will exclusively make Nintendo money. His game is only on Nintendo consoles.

Geno's small yet dedicated fanbase got him a Mii costume and numerous shout-outs from Sakurai, so are you sure his fanbase is that small? Let's not plug our ears now.

I'm just saying that, Sora, while very popular, would take a LOT of money to even contract and his inclusion would benefit Squenix much more than Nintendo.

Because ****ting on Fire Emblem is the hip thing to do.

 

[Flyboy]

Gonna have to say this again. Reread the tweet. Nintendo chose a pool odncharacter Sakurai selected from.

They ARE Sakurai's choices, the ones he thought were the best/most viable out of Nintendo's selections. Context is always important here, and WAAAAY to many people are getting depressed over news they are misunderstanding.

I'm like 90% sure Sakurai is trying to hype us here, not discourage us. He still has full control of who gets in.

I guess as someone who would rather have exciting Nintendo/mainly-Nintendo/iconic third party characters on Nintendo platforms over any old third party and even some retro picks, this news makes me more excited than most. Like, heck yeah, give me Elma or Travis Touchdown or Neko or even Edelgard. Give me some obscure Zelda side character. Go for it.

 

[Idon]

ho guys...it's been 3 or 4 hours...
i just finished my "smash bros paty ultimate cards.

we will be playing SMASH BROS with these cards that i will print on cardboard...
:-) i got many many mores but i show you some examples... both side will be print.

View attachment 176380

So
Many
Puns

 

[MyDude213]

Literally why is a Fire Emblem character in this equation

Sora is gonna make SQUARE ENIX more money. Sora is gonna make people go to KH3 which is on almost every console EXCEPT Nintendo ones.
Geno will exclusively make Nintendo money. His game is only on Nintendo consoles.

Geno's small yet dedicated fanbase got him a Mii costume and numerous shout-outs from Sakurai, so are you sure his fanbase is that small? Let's not plug our ears now.

I'm just saying that, Sora, while very popular, would take a LOT of money to even contract and his inclusion would benefit Squenix much more than Nintendo.

Link to a site talking about what was talking about
https://nintendosoup.com/rumor-squa...-porting-kingdom-hearts-3-to-nintendo-switch/

 

[praline]

I’m not against that Edelgard girl getting in Smash cause atleast she’s an axe user.

 

[Luigi The President]

Link to a site talking about what was talking about
https://nintendosoup.com/rumor-squa...-porting-kingdom-hearts-3-to-nintendo-switch/

Seeing as it's been a month since the article and they haven't even decided if they're making a port if the rumor is true I wouldn't be too concerned

 

[Idon]

I’m not against that Edelgard girl getting in Smash cause atleast she’s an axe user.

At MOST she's an axe user.

 

[StrawHatX]

I don’t think the “Sora won’t make Nintendo any money” argument is a very good one.

People who have Smash will pay money to get that character and you can’t tell me that there won’t be some Kingdom Hearts fans out there that won’t buy Smash and Sora if they find out he’s in it.

Sora can bring in Sony gamers to play Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Listen man, if I were to list every weird random bit of inconsistencies in Smash games, I'd be here all day.

Look.

LeBron James is on the Lakers.

At this point, anything is an inconsistency.

 

[Royalty1702]

Bandana Dee: solely cause of the amiibo quirk he and Daisy share.

Seriously, that's your only reason? That's been debunked ages ago.

 

[FirestormNeos]

I imagine it would depend on the song, since there's original music, Disney music and FF music (One Winged Angel).

But like, which one has the rights to something like this? or this?

 

[praline]

Sora is gonna make SQUARE ENIX more money. Sora is gonna make people go to KH3 which is on almost every console EXCEPT Nintendo ones.

That didn’t stop Cloud being dlc in 4.

 

[Luigi The President]

I don’t think the “Sora won’t make Nintendo any money” argument is a very good one.

People who have Smash will pay money to get that character and you can’t tell me that there won’t be some Kingdom Hearts fans out there that won’t buy Smash and Sora if they find out he’s in it.

Sora can bring in Sony gamers to play Smash.

But would it bring in Nintendo more money in the long-term than a DQ rep or Geno?
It'd bring in Squenix exclusively more money, as no KH games are coming to Nintendo consoles as far as we know.

Sony gamers are not going to buy a Switch and Smash so they can play as Sora if they can already play as him in KH.

 

[Flamingbird]

lol I thought this was a funny response to what Sakurai tweeted and wanted to share (r.i.p. Isaac)

 

[Paperchampion23]

Idk, I'm MORE confident Minecraft simply being Mii costumes over anything, especially since there are many more of them now and it seems like they are upping Mii costume representation overall. Minecraft does not have it's origins based in Nintendo or any exclusivity towards it. Just releasing on a Nintendo system doesn't increase it's merits for being a character. At least Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Bayonetta, Sonic, Mega-man, Pac-man and more all have shared some form of Origin or Exclusivity with Nintendo in the past (and yes, even Snake to a degree, but Kojima begged Sakurai for his inclusion, it's...different). Minecraft is simply a 3rd party game with Nintendo backing from Microsoft. That's it.

This is why I'm more inclined on Microsoft and Nintendo agreeing on Banjo as an actual rep. He has Nintendo history from an origin AND exclusivity standpoint, like every other 3rd party character in Smash.

Anyway, that's what I'm sticking to until we find out. A Microsoft partnership leads to Banjo being the playable character, while Minecraft gets a separate Mii costume announcement along with some other Microsoft related games.

 

[Luigi The President]

That didn’t stop Cloud being dlc in 4.

Cloud was not directly benefitting any future release. We don't even know when the 7 remake is being released. He was pretty equally benefitting Nintendo and Squenix, there was no real tradeoff because Cloud wasn't getting any exclusives on non-Nintendo consoles within like the next 2 years.

Sora's newest, non-Nintendo game would be coming out in January IIRC.

 

[osby]

lol I thought this was a funny response to what Sakurai tweeted and wanted to share (r.i.p. Isaac)

I wonder how character supports are taking this in general. NO FIGHTER BALLOT 2.0, YES,MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED!!

 

[StrawHatX]

But would it bring in Nintendo more money in the long-term than a DQ rep or Geno?
It'd bring in Squenix exclusively more money, as no KH games are coming to Nintendo consoles as far as we know.

Sony gamers are not going to buy a Switch and Smash so they can play as Sora if they can already play as him in KH.

Why would Nintendo care if it brought Square more money in the long run if putting a popular character like Sora sells more copies of Ultimate? That’s Nintendo’s goal with putting these characters in. And who is to say we won’t end up getting some KH collection for the Switch now that we’re getting tons of FF?

 

[FirestormNeos]

lol I thought this was a funny response to what Sakurai tweeted and wanted to share (r.i.p. Isaac)

I wonder how character supports are taking this in general. NO FIGHTER BALLOT 2.0, YES,MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED!!

Wait a sec what did Sakurai tweet again?

 

[Captain Shwampy]

*does the default dance when slime is announced *

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Literally why is a Fire Emblem character in this equation

Sora is gonna make SQUARE ENIX more money. Sora is gonna make people go to KH3 which is on almost every console EXCEPT Nintendo ones.
Geno will exclusively make Nintendo money. His game is only on Nintendo consoles.

Geno's small yet dedicated fanbase got him a Mii costume and numerous shout-outs from Sakurai, so are you sure his fanbase is that small? Let's not plug our ears now.

I'm just saying that, Sora, while very popular, would take a LOT of money to even contract and his inclusion would benefit Squenix much more than Nintendo.

You wanna take business politics? Let's talk business politics.

1. Of course it'd be beneficial to Square Enix! That's the exact point; Square Enix has proven to be incredibly loyal to Nintendo for the Switch; with lots and lots of Final Fantasy, The World Ends with You, Dragon Quest, and of course exclusive Octopath Traveller - how would you reward loyalty to your brand? You scratch their back like they scratch yours. Disney's also been pretty buddy-buddy with Nintendo as well lately; same thing for them.

2. You seem to imply this would only affect Sora; but your arguments can literally apply to all 3rd Party characters - whether it be Banjo, Steve, Geno, whatever - of course the benefit would be mainly to the collaborating company, but if you believe Nintendo wouldn't be getting any benefit is foolish - they're selling it for their game, on their platform.

3. It's quite obvious Nintendo would've had a say when it comes to DLC even with Smash 4. Corrin was there to help Fates in North America (though to be honest I think it may have actually hurt their sales) and Bayonetta has become sort of an unofficial part of the Nintendo family now that she's fully exclusive. Sakurai also said he considered other Final Fantasy characters than Cloud, but he chose him because he's the most popular - it's totally possible that Nintendo may have also urged him to choose the most popular to sell better. Heck, even the returning veterans - all were some of the more popular ones that were missing from the roster, and their fans would be there to buy.

 

[StrawHatX]

lol I thought this was a funny response to what Sakurai tweeted and wanted to share (r.i.p. Isaac)View attachment 176385

Why is that funny?

 

[Luigi The President]

Why would Nintendo care if it brought Square more money in the long run if putting a popular character like Sora sells more copies of Ultimate? That’s Nintendo’s goal with putting these characters in. And who is to say we won’t end up getting some KH collection for the Switch now that we’re getting tons of FF?

My logic is not that Sora would not help sell Ultimate. He would.
My logic is that a DQ rep or Geno would sell Ultimate and benefit Nintendo in the long run as well.
Do you get it? It's not that Sora wouldn't sell. It's that his sales will directly benefit Squenix far more than they would Nintendo. Other Squenix reps would not have this liability on their shoulders and would sell almost just as well, if not just as well.
I'm not going to have any sort of KH collection in mind as we literally can only go off of what we have.

You wanna take business politics? Let's talk business politics.

1. Of course it'd be beneficial to Square Enix! That's the exact point; Square Enix has proven to be incredibly loyal to Nintendo for the Switch; with lots and lots of Final Fantasy, The World Ends with You, Dragon Quest, and of course exclusive Octopath Traveller - how would you reward loyalty to your brand? You scratch their back like they scratch yours. Disney's also been pretty buddy-buddy with Nintendo as well lately; same thing for them.

2. You seem to imply this would only affect Sora; but your arguments can literally apply to all 3rd Party characters - whether it be Banjo, Steve, Geno, whatever - of course the benefit would be mainly to the collaborating company, but if you believe Nintendo wouldn't be getting any benefit is foolish - they're selling it for their game, on their platform.

3. It's quite obvious Nintendo would've had a say when it comes to DLC even with Smash 4. Corrin was there to help Fates in North America (though to be honest I think it may have actually hurt their sales) and Bayonetta has become sort of an unofficial part of the Nintendo family now that she's fully exclusive. Sakurai also said he considered other Final Fantasy characters than Cloud, but he chose him because he's the most popular - it's totally possible that Nintendo may have also urged him to choose the most popular to sell better. Heck, even the returning veterans - all were some of the more popular ones that were missing from the roster, and their fans would be there to buy.

Check my post above.
I'm not gonna really comment on 3 because in the end it's a very moot point due to us only knowing what Sakurai has told us.

 

[NineS]

Nintendo is a business. A business's number one goal is to make money.

Now tell me - who's going to make more money for Nintendo:
A. Sora, the protagonist of a critically acclaimed series whose series' fans are thirsty for more and who is known to millions simply due to association with the number one brand in the world whose series is at it's hypest right now.
B. Geno, an obscure character who appeared in one game 20+ years ago and who has a small yet dedicated fanbase; who wasn't even the main character of said game.
C. A character from Fire Emblem, which is in and of itself still incredibly niche compared to other strategy games. I guarantee you more people know of Clash of Clans than Fire Emblem.

forgive me for asking but
where'd you get fire emblem from?
they didn't mention fire emblem at all. just sora, geno and DQ

But would it bring in Nintendo more money in the long-term than a DQ rep or Geno?
It'd bring in Squenix exclusively more money, as no KH games are coming to Nintendo consoles as far as we know.

Sony gamers are not going to buy a Switch and Smash so they can play as Sora if they can already play as him in KH.

I agree on a lot of things you say, but while Geno would exclusively make Nintendo money...

He'd also make them less money. Hardcore Smash and Mario RPG fans aside, people don't really have a lot of incentive to buy him unless they know about him. I agree Sora would likely end up making Sony money, but he'd also make Nintendo more money as a DLC character simply because of how more recognizable he is to the common public. This isn't like Smash 4 where most of the fans were really into it, this is Ultimate on the switch, likely going to appeal to a broader audience.

DQ honestly is the safest bet to make taking that into account, but at this point who the Squenix rep doesn't really matter to me. I'd prefer 2B or Slime, but I'll be happy regardless.

 

[The Animator]

So basically since Nintendo is picking characters, DLC will go one of two ways, They will either be characters highly demanded by fans, or to promote new games like they did with Corrin. If its the later then it depends on whats going on currently/on the way. So it could be good or bad. All this really means is that we wont see another one of Sakurai's wild picks. And if we hate the DLC Sakurai's stance will be:

 

[Paperchampion23]

Wait a sec what did Sakurai tweet again?

That they finished choosing the DLC characters. Sakurai then explained how in the same tweet: Nintendo picks many characters -> Sakurai picks the 5 that work/most viable-> They then get to planning.

 

[PLATINUM7]

But like, which one has the rights to something like this? or this?

Given the game's and character copyrights are for Disney, I wouldn't be surprised if they held the rights to the music with Yoko Shimomura retaining some rights to her songs and arrangements, as well as Utada Hikaru retaining rights to her songs.

 

[Luigi The President]

forgive me for asking but
where'd you get fire emblem from?
they didn't mention fire emblem at all. just sora, geno and DQ

I agree on a lot of things you say, but while Geno would exclusively make Nintendo money...

He'd also make them less money. Hardcore Smash and Mario RPG fans aside, people don't really have a lot of incentive to buy him unless they know about him. I agree Sora would likely end up making Sony money, but he'd also make Nintendo more money as a DLC character simply because of how more recognizable he is to the common public. This isn't like Smash 4 where most of the fans were really into it, this is Ultimate on the switch, likely going to appeal to a broader audience.

DQ honestly is the safest bet to make taking that into account, but at this point who the Squenix rep doesn't really matter to me. I'd prefer 2B or Slime, but I'll be happy regardless.

People are going to buy just about any Smash DLC character that turns up from what I have seen over the years.
Any Squenix rep will sell like absolute hotcakes. Geno has spread into the mainline. Even casual fans want the guy. Sakurai's picked up on his support.
This is the most fan-driven Smash game so far, far more than 4.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Given the game's and character copyrights are for Disney, I wouldn't be surprised if they held the rights to the music with Yoko Shimomura retaining some rights to her songs and arrangements, as well as Utada Hikaru retaining rights to her songs.

Oh okay good. Which means that if Sora gets in, the only thing I have to worry about (other then Sora being fun to play, obviously) is Disney being as stingy with the music as Square was with Press FF to Pay Respects to One Winged Angel.

 

[StrawHatX]

My logic is not that Sora would not help sell Ultimate. He would.
My logic is that a DQ rep or Geno would sell Ultimate and benefit Nintendo in the long run as well.
Do you get it? It's not that Sora wouldn't sell. It's that his sales will directly benefit Squenix far more than they would Nintendo. Other Squenix reps would not have this liability on their shoulders and would sell almost just as well, if not just as well.
I'm not going to have any sort of KH collection in mind as we literally can only go off of what we have.

I know you’re a Geno fan and I promise I’m not trying to hate on Geno, but what would Geno do long term for Nintendo? I know you don’t want to talk about a KH collection, but it’s possible we could get KH on the Switch in the future. I don’t think we’re getting a new SMRPG game anytime soon (which is unfortunate because it is a great game).

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

"Will Nintendo and Square Enix shed their business sensibilities and include Geno out of sheer love for the fans?" Will Nintendo defeat Square's Copyright Elite and gain access to Dragon Quest? Or will they commit apparent promotional suicide to add Sora?"

"Will Spawn hit Super Streak 11? Or will Pandy prove to be far more 'leaky' than any of the Z Insiders thought possible?!"

"Find out, on the next, exciting episode of "This Goddamned Squeenix Character!""

 

[Idon]

Cloud was not directly benefitting any future release. We don't even know when the 7 remake is being released. He was pretty equally benefitting Nintendo and Squenix, there was no real tradeoff because Cloud wasn't getting any exclusives on non-Nintendo consoles within like the next 2 years.

Yeah but Final Fantasy is still a monolithic franchise that Cloud's attached to.
A franchise which regularly takes him out of the grave to be marketed with over and over again.

Like Cloud's Dissidia trailer was the day after his Smash 4 trailer, with Dissidia NT releasing 2 weeks later.
Just one more year later we had the release of FFXV as well.
Not to mention the fact that FF7:Remake even exists is a constant reminder with Cloud's inclusion in Smash.

 

[OdnetninAges]

Dude, I love pie.

The recent news is... Interesting. Sakurai made the choices for characters in the past, right? Well, I guess he still is here, but from a pool of characters chosen by Nintendo themselves. I guess this means third parties might not be DLC after all? Or did Nintendo actually choose third-party characters this time?

And how does this bode for Rex & Pyra's chances? From the sound of it, the list might have been finalized today, so they might actually have a chance.

I'm very interested in how the DLC turns out now, much more than I already was.

 

[Luigi The President]

I know you’re a Geno fan and I promise I’m not trying to hate on Geno, but what would Geno do long term for Nintendo? I know you don’t want to talk about a KH collection, but it’s possible we could get KH on the Switch in the future. I don’t think we’re getting a new SMRPG game anytime soon (which is unfortunate because it is a great game).

I am a Geno fan who doesn't expect him as DLC. I'm not offended, don't worry.

Geno would prove Nintendo listens to their fans, stunning PR. Geno would promote the re-releases of SMRPG, like on the SNES Mini. He would also promote their older library in general like the games they'll be selling on the Switch VC. Regardless, Geno's gonna sell well; you're plugging your ears if you think he isn't one of the most heavily requested left standing. Also, since Squenix doesn't seem to have any plans to use him in upcoming games, they don't need to worry about promoting competing brands.

 

[NineS]

People are going to buy just about any Smash DLC character that turns up from what I have seen over the years.
Any Squenix rep will sell like absolute hotcakes. Geno has spread into the mainline. Even casual fans want the guy. Sakurai's picked up on his support.
This is the most fan-driven Smash game so far, far more than 4.

Agreed, but the issue here is whether Nintendo themselves can agree on that, instead of going the safer more profitable route with A DQ character. Sora is less likely, although he could be profitable, he'd likely also help Nintendo's competitor, Sony. Hopefully the Ballot results sways them.

 

[N3ON]

Literally why is a Fire Emblem character in this equation

Sora is gonna make SQUARE ENIX more money. Sora is gonna make people go to KH3 which is on almost every console EXCEPT Nintendo ones.
Geno will exclusively make Nintendo money. His game is only on Nintendo consoles.

Geno's small yet dedicated fanbase got him a Mii costume and numerous shout-outs from Sakurai, so are you sure his fanbase is that small? Let's not plug our ears now.

I'm just saying that, Sora, while very popular, would take a LOT of money to even contract and his inclusion would benefit Squenix much more than Nintendo.

I'm sure there are many Cloud detractors circa 2014 who would agree with you.