Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ChronoKatie]

Really hoping we get Sora instead of a DQ rep, but I must admit that I would take Jade happily.

 

[Naiko3232]

Yeah, Nintendo is going to try get big names for the DLC.

 

[ShadowGamer193]

1) Yes, when I said Edelgard would be the first Axe user of the series, I was talking about Smash lol

2) So is the Lloyd dream just dead now?

 

[Idon]

I don't see why Nintendo would choose "DQ rep".

CUZ ****'S BIG IN NIPPON.

Like REALLY BIG.

Like, Japan's version of Monty Python and the holy grail parody is based on it.

 

[Jetsurge]

Yeah, Nintendo is going to try get big names for the DLC.

But do Nintendo want big names or do they want advertisements? We don't know.

 

[NineS]

Spoiler

Oh god, you just created a shipping title

Way to go

Well, ****!

I screwed that one up.
Uh.

No 2B x Boshi! It was a joke name! Please, do not do that.
Only 2B x 2B, 2B x A2 (since it's equivalent to 2B x 2B), or 2B x 9S!

Or none! No ships!
I will shut up now. Please do not do that!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Agree, Nintendo would gain very little from adding Geno. If they added Sora for example, they would be opening the doors for the past KH games to come to the Nintendo Switch. We've already seen this happen, all of a sudden these FF titles are coming to the Nintendo Switch. It could be a very similar scenario with Kingdom Hearts. If this were to happen then both Nintendo and Square would have a lot to profit from. Also Nomura has already stated that he is interested in bringing KH3 to the Nintendo Switch. Even if its a visual downgrade, it will still sell a lot. Even more so if Sora is in Smash Ultimate.

But what about Disney in that scenario?

I guess I could imagine it working something like this:

• Nintendo and Square Enix meet to discuss Smash Bros.
• Square Enix suggests Sora because they want Kingdom Hearts on Nintendo Switch because its selling like hotcakes
• Nintendo agrees
• Nintendo goes to Disney to discuss Sora in Smash Bros. backed by Square Enix
• Disney, looking at the Ballot results and the profitability of Kingdom Hearts on Switch, reluctantly agree
• Sora gets into Smash Bros.

It's possible, but unlikely in my opinion.

What if the second Square Enix rep is a second Final Fantasy rep like Terra Branford and that's why we got all of the Final Fantasy titles on Nintendo Switch?

Like, in terms of SE Reps, my preference is:

• Sora
• Sora (Yes I know I put Sora twice but I want him that much)
• Terra Branford
• Lara Croft = Geno
• Neku
• Jade
• 2B
• Erdrick
• Slime

 

[osby]

But do Nintendo want big names or do they want advertisements? We don't know.

Probably both, tbh.

 

[N3ON]

Sora is looking unlikely now. I don't see why Nintendo would choose him. DQ rep here we go.

Because he'll sell well and probably draw new people to the game.

People overlook the fact that if you include third-parties with a strong presence on Nintendo's hardware, you're not expanding the userbase by as much as if you bring in audiences from other platforms. That's the goal of the DLC right, to sell and to help sell the game? Nintendo might not stand to profit from KH3, but SFV and FF7R didn't stop Ryu and Cloud. Who, incidentally, may very well have also been Nintendo's picks.

I'm not saying a choice like Slime doesn't also make sense, but including characters from series with more tenuous ties has a rationale to it as well. There's a place for assuring titles on your platform profit and there's a place for expanding the userbase of your platform.

 

[RyuhoFox]

If we are assuming the characters to be promotional things wouldn't that open the door for both another Metroid rep and a Bayonetta 3 rep?

 

[A.G.L.]

Can someone give me an idea of what might differentiate Erdrick from other swordfighters? I'm just so much more interested in Slime and Jade because I'm hoping for some moveset diversity.

Well one important factor would be his appearance. He would have a way different look compared to the other sword users due to Akira Toriyama's work. As for moves, I really can't say

I don't see why Nintendo would choose "DQ rep".

Its very big in Japan, and Dragon Quest has more sales than the Kingdom Hearts series (prior to KH3). That being said I feel Sora is the more all around well known character.

Question right now is which fan base do they want to choose. Both game series will help them cross promote. If they choose a Dragon Quest character it could help them make Dragon Quest more known in the West and they don't need Disney. Also it would help them cross promote Dragon Quest 11 that's coming to the Switch.

If they choose Sora, it would be a more all around well known character. Despite having to share with Disney, they could work a deal with Nintendo. To bring the KH games to the Nintendo Switch, and potentially bring KH3 to the Nintendo Switch. In this scenario Nintendo, Square and Disney all profit. This scenario I believe has the greatest potential for profit.

 

[osby]

If we are assuming the characters to be promotional things wouldn't that open the door for both another Metroid rep and a Bayonetta 3 rep?

Not really, they can't promote the games better than Samus and Bayonetta. Corrin was a completely new character, doing (almost) completely new stuff from the rest of the FE cast. You can't do that with Sylux or Jeanne.

 

[NineS]

Because he'll sell well and probably draw new people to the game.

People overlook the fact that if you include third-parties with a strong presence on Nintendo's hardware, you're not expanding the userbase by as much as if you bring in audiences from other platforms. That's the goal of the DLC right, to sell and to help sell the game? Nintendo might not stand to profit from KH3, but SFV and FF7R didn't stop Ryu and Cloud. Who, incidentally, may very well have also been Nintendo's picks.

I'm not saying a choice like Slime doesn't also make sense, but including characters from series with more tenuous ties has a rationale to it as well. There's a place for assuring titles on your platform profit and there's a place for expanding the userbase of your platform.

To be fair, I wouldn't say Sora is on the level Ryu, Cloud, and Slime are in terms of being iconic. Not yet, at least.
The slime is known throughout Japan, and decently recognizable here. Cloud is... Cloud. He's Final Fantasy's poster boy. I don't think I need to say much for Ryu. It isn't as if the slime is Nintendo-only, but it's Nintendo-also. DQ currently has games on multiple consoles, the Switch as well, which is one thing it has on top of Geno and Sora. It would bring in fans of the franchise, fan of the franchise on other consoles, and fans of the franchise on their own console.

 

[ShadowGamer193]

The rage the would ensue if Lightning from FFXIII was the Square Rep

 

[Bee Card]

Really hoping we get Sora instead of a DQ rep, but I must admit that I would take Jade happily.

Unfortunately I think they will never put a secondary character instead of the main protagonist

 

[perfectchaos83]

Question right now is which fan base do they want to choose. Both game series will help them cross promote. If they choose a Dragon Quest character it could help them make Dragon Quest more known in the West and they don't need Disney. Also it would help them cross promote Dragon Quest 11 that's coming to the Switch.

One thing to keep in mind is that Nintendo publishes quite a few Dragon Quest titles in the west. So there is financial incentive for Nintendo to do so.

 

[Shroob]

If Jade gets in, I'll be shocked.


The fact that she's a secondary character and NOT the protagonist/Mascot as the first character in the game would be interesting.

 

[MyDude213]

Seeing a lot of the Smash fanbase start shouting doom and gloom about how the DLC is all gonna be promotional characters without any sort of solid base in reality is kinda depressing. The Grinch leak's fall made a lot of Smash fans a hell of a lot more pessimistic, it seems.

Honestly the fact that the community is being more careful about what they believe regarding Smash after the Grinch leak is a good thing, it means people aren't making as many assumptions going off of random anonymous "sources" that have no actual real proof to back them up. It got people to put their hype on a leash for lack of a better word. As well as also making people realize that anything can be a fake even if it looks as real as the Grinch leak looked to a lot of people. So whenever something huge like the Grinch leak happens again people will hopefully just take any future leaks with a grain of salt and just wait for official Nintendo news. Instead of getting hype over nothing like a lot of people got over the Grinch leak.

 

[NineS]

But what about Disney in that scenario?

I guess I could imagine it working something like this:

• Nintendo and Square Enix meet to discuss Smash Bros.
• Square Enix suggests Sora because they want Kingdom Hearts on Nintendo Switch because its selling like hotcakes
• Nintendo agrees
• Nintendo goes to Disney to discuss Sora in Smash Bros. backed by Square Enix
• Disney, looking at the Ballot results and the profitability of Kingdom Hearts on Switch, reluctantly agree
• Sora gets into Smash Bros.

It's possible, but unlikely in my opinion.

What if the second Square Enix rep is a second Final Fantasy rep like Terra Branford and that's why we got all of the Final Fantasy titles on Nintendo Switch?

Like, in terms of SE Reps, my preference is:

• Sora
• Sora (Yes I know I put Sora twice but I want him that much)
• Terra Branford
• Lara Croft = Geno
• Neku
• Jade
• 2B
• Erdrick
• Slime

Let me fix your list.

• Sora
• Sora
• Sora
• Sora
• Neku
• Sora
• 2B
• Sora
• Slime
• Sora
• Sora again.

Did I mention Sora?

 

[Union of Darkness]

another Metroid rep

Theoretically. But as we've seen almost nothing about Prime 4 it's likely not even close to complete. I think I tie in is out of the question. Also Nintendo thinks Metroid isn't lucrative.

 

[ShadowGamer193]

a grain of salt

LaxChris intensifies

 

[Lyndis_]

Hopefully Nintendo picking the characters doesn't end us up with underwhelming choices.

 

[ChronoKatie]

Unfortunately I think they will never put a secondary character instead of the main protagonist

Good God she is perfection. Not gonna lie, I would take Hendrik above any DQ rep, but that isn't happening. Haha I see Jade at least having a decent shot. She's a fan favorite and having a spear user as a fighter in Smash would be quite unique. (Bandana dee will try his best too I'm sure) Those who have played DQXI would probably agree her side special would basically mirror Peach. Heh.

Otherwise, it's the Luminary or Erdrick for sure.

 

[Shroob]

LaxChris intensifies

*Makes a thumbnail claiming said leak is SUPER CREDIBLE*

"Take this with a grain of salt"



What the hell is he going to do when DLC ends.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

She's bound to cause salt due to being:
-Another Fire Emblem character
-Not from a Nintendo console/handheld title and from a phone game
-Random OC over Lords like Lyn, Hector, Celica, etc.

Salt yes, but she wouldn’t be the worst choice for an 8th Fire Emblem character...there’s way worse

If we are assuming the characters to be promotional things wouldn't that open the door for both another Metroid rep and a Bayonetta 3 rep?

Jeanne is likely not joining and Rodin is out...so Bayo is riding solo

 

[ChronoKatie]

If we are assuming the characters to be promotional things wouldn't that open the door for both another Metroid rep and a Bayonetta 3 rep?

Sylux would get no complaints from me.

 

[A.G.L.]

But what about Disney in that scenario?

I guess I could imagine it working something like this:

• Nintendo and Square Enix meet to discuss Smash Bros.
• Square Enix suggests Sora because they want Kingdom Hearts on Nintendo Switch because its selling like hotcakes
• Nintendo agrees
• Nintendo goes to Disney to discuss Sora in Smash Bros. backed by Square Enix
• Disney, looking at the Ballot results and the profitability of Kingdom Hearts on Switch, reluctantly agree
• Sora gets into Smash Bros.

It's possible, but unlikely in my opinion.

What if the second Square Enix rep is a second Final Fantasy rep like Terra Branford and that's why we got all of the Final Fantasy titles on Nintendo Switch?

Like, in terms of SE Reps, my preference is:

• Sora
• Sora (Yes I know I put Sora twice but I want him that much)
• Terra Branford
• Lara Croft = Geno
• Neku
• Jade
• 2B
• Erdrick
• Slime

Its very unlikely they would put a second FF character, heres why. 1) Final Fantasy is already represented in Smash Bros. Also we know that Square loves cross promotion and exposing audiences to their different franchises, that represent them. There's a reason that 2B is in Soul Calibur and not another FF rep. Because they wanted to bring exposure to Nier Automata. They chose to put Noctis in Tekken and 2B in Soul Calibur. 2) If they were to add another FF character, the most logical choice would be Noctis. FF15 has another season pass on the way. It would make sense to put a character they want people to draw interest in. However Noctis is already represented in Tekken, there is no need for him to be in Smash. 3) This is the perfect time to introduce Smash fans to a franchise they may not know about, or have no current interest in as Smash is a huge advertisement. If they added one of their other franchises it would help them sell games outside of the FF series. This would help them not put stock in just one series, but instead have multiple franchises flourishing due to cross promotion.

 

[NineS]

*Makes a thumbnail claiming said leak is SUPER CREDIBLE*

"Take this with a grain of salt"



What the hell is he going to do when DLC ends.

He's backed himself up into a corner. Smash was his gold fountain, and it's running out.

 

[osby]

Theoretically. But as we've seen almost nothing about Prime 4 it's likely not even close to complete. I think I tie in is out of the question. Also Nintendo thinks Metroid isn't lucrative.

They aren't exactly wrong.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Another thought - is Nintendo also offering slots in Smash as a way to entice more third parties to get on board?

WiiU had basically nothing third party. Will they try to put out loads of feelers to various companies to make connections? Or to celebrate games from said companies on Switch?

Are we then also expecting all third parties, each from a different company?

So they did talk to Bethesda...and Skyrim was one of the games they showed first for Switch. So...

 

[Idon]

*Makes a thumbnail claiming said leak is SUPER CREDIBLE*

"Take this with a grain of salt"



What the hell is he going to do when DLC ends.

SMASH 6 RUMORS?????

 

[Bee Card]

Good God she is perfection. Not gonna lie, I would take Hendrik above any DQ rep, but that isn't happening. Haha I see Jade at least having a decent shot. She's a fan favorite and having a spear user as a fighter in Smash would be quite unique. (Bandana dee will try his best too I'm sure) Those who have played DQXI would probably agree her side special would basically mirror Peach. Heh.

Otherwise, it's the Luminary or Erdrick for sure.

Now I imagine Bandana Dee at the end of the trailer, lying on the ground and says with a manly voice : "I suppose I will get my chance another day" then we see him in the final smash of Jade

 

[nintenplayer]

Since Nintendo is picking DLC characters, I'm really just lowering my expectations SUPER low.

I am NOT confident that Nintendo knows what fans truly want. There's no way those stubborn heads give us what we want. I wouldn't be surprised if 4 of them is for promotional purposes.

 

[SAMation]

Let’s say Geno does get in as DLC, who do you think would be the new “big three” in the community (like Ridley, K Rool, and Geno).

Personally I’d like to see Waluigi, Isaac, and Banjo fill that role. Waluigi would be the lovable popular purple villain of the three, Banjo would be the forgotten Rare character, and Isaac would be the underdog of the group. It’s different, yet somehow still the same.

 

[A.G.L.]

One thing to keep in mind is that Nintendo publishes quite a few Dragon Quest titles in the west. So there is financial incentive for Nintendo to do so.

Agree theres incentive for them to choose both series. I am sure both Nintendo and Square weighed which character would bring them the most money, both short term and long term.

 

[GoeGoe]

I just saw that tweet, pretty interesting stuff. Really interesting that Nintendo is taking over the DLC selection. Unfortunately since Sakurai's interest was one of the main arguments for Geno. That does not look good on Geno since Nintendo has shown almost equal interest in Geno as Square has, which is very little. Yeah Square can be really strict which is why I would often use this point in determining which rep they would choose. I just hope for three things from Square at this point. 1) They put the One Winged Angel song in the Midgar Stage. 2) They add Octopath Traveler music in Smash 3) They add Sora or a Dragon Quest character as 2nd rep, both who would work great in cross promotion.

Also I agree Banjo's chances look very slim compared to Steve's. Unless! There is a secret new Banjo Kazooie game being made between Nintendo and Microsoft. If this is the case, Banjo's chances skyrocket way past Steve's. However given Vergeben's info on the Minecraft content, its most likely

.

Its really fun, but I wont lie Advance Wars Days of Ruin has some ridiculously hard stages. I remember I kept dying from Waylon a guy that had a ton of helicopters it was super frustrating ha. Its a game where you have to think steps ahead, and that can be frustrating lol. Ah true we fellow small fanbases have to stick together, maybe by doing that our characters have a shot .

I really hope so I could use a break from all this biomechanics, all the physics involved is frustrating ha. Agree, sometimes I just want to sit under a tree in a quiet place. I feel like parts of Japan would be perfect for that, just a nice place to unwind.

Which is none existent XD (interest in Geno by Nintendo & Square). I don't believe this is the first time Nintendo took over however. I believe most of FE chars were their call too. Btw, when did you realize Square's behavior? You seem to be bitten by it. I'm guessing FF related.

Well, I wish all your wishes come true. I don't mind any, I was just feeling for Geno fans and honestly I still think not evry choice should be hard cold cash based. I don't appreciate building a stack over passion then dropping it all for pure cash sake, that to me is so wrong.

It wasn't just Vergeben, Hitagi too. So it's pretty much on spot. Even if there was a new Banjo game, reality says 90Mil. players = more $$.
Just to point, you see, we're talking reality now. Passion, dream, imagination all went out of the door for that cold cash. New players like Minecraft fans think it's ok because they're the reality call, they'll soon realize that Fortnite does better.. and so on and so on the better in cash get to be called the real deservant. That's just not gaming, not the fantasy world people go for to escape that specific reality. It's just wrong.

I think even if we stick together we're still microscopic XD At least I'm used to this by now.

Parts of Europe as well. Though, I don't think you'll find any more respectful people than in Japan. They're just so SO polite.

 

[NineS]

Since Nintendo is picking DLC characters, I'm really just lowering my expectations SUPER low.

I am NOT confident that Nintendo knows what fans truly want. There's no way those the stubborn heads give us what we want. I wouldn't be surprised if 4 of them is for promotional purposes.

I know you probably missed this, but

Alright, since we're all losing our minds now, I'm going to put my thoughts down on this and try to clear some things up.

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 6, 2018

First off, please note that Sakurai is saying "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete." Not that it has been complete, or they completed months ago. But that it is now complete. As in, they've only now finally finished choosing the DLC characters and thinking of how they'll work. Not that they've finished creating them, as it hasn't been nearly long enough since the game has gone gold to finish them.
This means there's a chance that, in fact, recent characters (anyone from games after early 2016) could be part of the DLC lineup. Of course, this goes against what he said the final smash direct, but yet again, what he said in that direct goes against what Bill had said about how they were handling Smash DLC.

Second off, please note what he said. "This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo." This doesn't mean no 3rd Party characters.
It means that, we may get a lot of 1st Party characters, but some 3rd Parties as well. Nintendo chose them, but they could've chosen them for promotional reasons, trying to gather attention for franchises on the switch, or games coming to the switch soon that we've yet to hear of, 3rd and 1st party. This doesn't eliminate 3rd parties entirely, but it limits our options to "Which 3rd parties would Nintendo want in Smash? How would it help them for this 3rd party to get in smash besides making money off of DLC?" Geno's chances are hurt, because we don't know how badly Nintendo themselves want him. DQ's chances increase immensely because of this, as are Chocobo's or any FF character's. Sora's chances are, admittedly, very hurt as well. However, characters like Sora and 2B (Basically 3rd party franchises who've yet to have a game on the switch, but can get one in the nier near future) potentially have a chance if their inclusion is anything like Isabelle's; In other words, their announcement and reveal coincides with the announcement of their game arriving to the Switch at a later date or that same day. Banjo is still a potential fit, due to the potential 64 Mini.

Lastly, the end of his tweet. "I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan." The wording of this suggests that Nintendo didn't give Sakurai specific 5 fighters, but rather, a large list of characters, 1st party and potentially 3rd party, which Sakurai would have to pick 5 characters from said large list based off of if he wants to do something with given characters or can. This means Nintendo decided far more than 5 characters for smash, gave Sakurai a list and told him "Choose 5 of these you think you can make something good with," and essentially to throw the other choices away. This means Sakurai still has some level of control as to who gets to be in Smash, only it has to be off of the list of characters Nintendo gave him.

It's not the end of the world. In fact, this kind of excites me.

Figured this may need reposting for people who missed it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Unfortunately I think they will never put a secondary character instead of the main protagonist

ugh smh another Fire Emblem character

Also I doubt Sylux is one the table, cause Sakurai would be given the list of characters without looking at Prime 4 to see if he got any new toys

 

[Bee Card]

Let’s say Geno does get in as DLC, who do you think would be the new “big three” in the community (like Ridley, K Rool, and Geno).

Personally I’d like to see Waluigi, Isaac, and Banjo fill that role. Waluigi would be the lovable popular purple villain of the three, Banjo would be the forgotten Rare character, and Isaac would be the underdog of the group. It’s different, yet somehow still the same.

Isaac
Isaac
and of course Isaac

 

[osby]

Let’s say Geno does get in as DLC, who do you think would be the new “big three” in the community (like Ridley, K Rool, and Geno).

Personally I’d like to see Waluigi, Isaac, and Banjo fill that role. Waluigi would be the lovable popular purple villain of the three, Banjo would be the forgotten Rare character, and Isaac would be the underdog of the group. It’s different, yet somehow still the same.

I'd rather fanbase not creating stuff like that, but I think Geno is supposed to be there. Also,

lovable

Citation needed. it's a joke