Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Luigi The President]

This was a while back. Recently, he's said nothing.

And it's fine. I'm just pissy about Geno because honestly 13 years of this gets extremely grating. I just want it put to rest already, especially since Ridley wars are finally done

Luckily you don't got much longer to go whether Geno's in or not.

 

[Idon]

This was a while back. Recently, he's said nothing.

And it's fine. I'm just pissy about Geno because honestly 13 years of this gets extremely grating. I just want it put to rest already, especially since Ridley wars are finally done

Don't worry, once the Geno wars are over, we can finally move on the rest of the Grinch leaks, starting wiiiiiiiiith Isaaaaac.

 

[NextChannelGames]

I love the Zelda series and it’s characters!

Though there are many great ideas, I would choose Ganon (Z1-ALTTP) being a heavy fighter with his pork weapon for spells and attacks like be able to shoot out bats, teleport move like with Down Special and even his cape being a counter.

 

[NineS]

I think this thread needs the royal treatment.

Anyway, what were we talking about?

Let's heat it up!
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Shoot, I've got nothing.
Uh.

Let's break some moves? Look at these chompers?

 

[KMDP]

There's a world of difference between Speedy Gonzalez and "What Makes the Red Man Red." Game and Watch's side smash edges pretty close to the latter.

Plus I mean, would anyone really, truly care if it was changed during the localization process? It's less of "let's do massive censorship" and more of "let's not further perpetuate the harmful stereotype that Native Americans are savages when we can avoid it."

Hell, just use the updated sprites from Game and Watch Gallery. If Topis can change for cultural differences, so too can the animation of a side smash.

This is a very good point.

But... there are Native Americans in this thread who say they don't care about the Mr Game & Watch thing. One of them even pointed out that it was technically historically accurate.

 

[Noipoi]

This was a while back. Recently, he's said nothing.

And it's fine. I'm just pissy about Geno because honestly 13 years of this gets extremely grating. I just want it put to rest already, especially since Ridley wars are finally done

So what? Should people stop wanting Geno?

 

[Will]

Spoiler

Let's heat it up!
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Let's get WAHld-

oh wait

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Question: How would you all feel about this being the DLC pack?
-Geno
-Sora
-Steve
-Bandana Waddle Dee
-Master Chief

And a hypothetical worst case scenario:
-Steve
-Lara Croft
-Katalina
-Fire Emblem Rep
-Tingle

Both are hard to go with. First one has more I like, though. Lara nor another FE rep does anything for me. Katalina doesn't bother me, and I like mobile games and think them having more in Smash is a healthy thing, since they're a big part of gaming too. And then there's Tingle, my favorite Zelda option right now. On the other hand, I really still want to see Geno in(though there's more regular Mario characters of interest to me right now, they're just 1st party, so Geno stands out on his own). Bandanna and Master Chief are amazing options too.

For me, I'd probably have the picks of Fulgore, Geno... and that's kind of it at this point. Assuming no AT's are available. I wouldn't mind Master Chief, Steve, and Sora too, but I doubt we will see zero 1st party picks. I'd love to see adult Isaac, or even Felix if Isaac's entirely off the table. Sveta would be neat too, as she's rather unique in her abilities. So many good options...

Mind you, those are my realistic picks. Brian would otherwise be on there. XD

 

[SAMation]

"That's not to say Geno isn't one of the names I've heard" or something like that.

I think he's mentioned Sora before as well, but both Sora and Geno were in replies to someone or were just speculation or something, not him confirming that they were or weren't the SE rep. I think Geno is indeed on his list, but he was just speculating that SE wouldn't care if he leaked because he's heavily speculated about anyway (which makes no sense imo due to it contradicting with his statement on how SE is extremely intolerant of leaks).

Honestly I have a slight hunch we might get Geno and another square rep. I don’t know why, just a hunch, but Geno and Sora would be super solid in a DLC pack and that’d already be worth the price regardless of who the other three are (prob Steve and two others)

 

[FixedFun]

That's it, I'm rooting for Tinstar, he deserves to be a DLC character #TinstarForSmash (even if I'm the only one )
I'm sure Nintendo can make it!

 

[Robertman2]

Luckily you don't got much longer to go whether Geno's in or not.

i suppose
but if he doesn't get in, it'll happen again with smash 6, but oh well.

Don't worry, once the Geno wars are over, we can finally move on the rest of the Grinch leaks, starting wiiiiiiiiith Isaaaaac.

the mach rider wars were what caused the nuclear war in fallout

 

[Noipoi]

Let's get WAHld-

oh wait

You didn't see this part of me, but before E3 I was a huge Waluigi supporter.

It hurts man.

 

[FreeFox]

Okay but yet here we go again with really bad counter examples. None of those examples have anything to do with how having Geno in Smash would protect their company image, etc, etc.

There's absolutely nothing for Square to gain other than a really I'm assuming small amount of cash considering he's a one off character who they've never used from Geno being in Smash Ultimate as an icon/spirit. They probably got more money off his Mii Costume than they would that.

And I'm sure we're all aware unless Cloud and Geno were both secured again back in the initial Smash 4 DLC phase for Ultimate, a whole other conversation about both their content coming back for Smash Ultimate had to have taken place. So in that event that makes twice Square said to Sakurai it'd be okay for him to use Geno in some capacity, but I'm going to assume it was only once.

Now here's my line of thinking. Geno is probably a relatively cheap character to license out because well he's not an icon, he's by all means really quite the underdog. He's not getting used, so he's not gonna cost Sakurai as much to use as say Cloud or Chocobo who have both been in Smash in some greater or equal capacity.

So here's the deal if a man comes to you and tells you there's a heap of fan demand for this one time character that you have been sitting on and you know he's not really worth that much to license out and you get paid this small amount of money for let's just say an icon. Let's just assume the only thing he has in Smash Ultimate is an icon and Spirit. Let's say you said yes to that.

Congratulations. You've gotten a minimal amount of profit. Now...let's flip it.

You see that fan demand and you probably also can gauge fan demand from sells of the Mii Fighter Outfit from Smash 4. You also know this is a character who you can make a playable character now and thus make even more money. Now Sakurai isn't paying you chump change. He's paying you a little more bang for your buck for a character that you just have sitting around collecting dust.

Congratulations. You've maximized your profits on a character you've not been profiting on prior to this.

Now tell me as a 46 year old company what would you more likely do?

Counter point to what I'm trying to say: It's certainly possible that seeing the fan demand and whatever the sales of the Mii Fighter costume from Smash 4 were like? Asked for TOO much money from Sakurai to turn Geno into a playable fighter in Smash Ultimate and thus he had to shoot them down but kept what he already had as bones for Geno's fans.

My point about companies being smart by controlling the use of the IP remains.

I dont think that is how it would work. If I were Sakurai, I know that telling them they would get money wouldnt be enough. Companies make money from everything they do. I would ask for Geno and then offer them something nice on the side to sweeten the deal. Something like maybe new mii costumes to promote some of their future games.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

So what? Should people stop wanting Geno?

That's the kind of vibe a few people are giving off.

And if people stopped wanting Ridley and K. Rool after their multiple shoot downs we wouldn't have them in Ultimate. So it's kind of an odd thing to say.

 

[Opossum]

This is a very good point.

But... there are Native Americans in this thread who say they don't care about the Mr Game & Watch thing. One of them even pointed out that it was technically historically accurate.

And there are also many who find it offensive, if some of the responses I've seen on other sites are any indication.

Why rock the boat when you can sail in steady waters, you know?

 

[Will]

You didn't see this part of me, but before E3 I was a huge Waluigi supporter.

It hurts man.

You think you aren't talking to a guy who had a Waluigi avatar for two years?

And there are also many who find it offensive, if some of the responses I've seen on other sites are any indication.

Why rock the boat when you can sail in steady waters, you know?

Because the boat will probably be safe.
Thanks physics.

 

[AugustusB]

So what? Should people stop wanting Geno?

Perhaps this is the time to be and let be good buddy. Things will not change and a fight will not solve it.

Side note: I did a 180 on Incineroar and will give him a try!

 

[Rummy]

I never gave up on my boy K Rool, and so did many others. Same can be said about Ridley. At this point i'm just hoping that the dedication of the Geno Community will finally shine. Having played SMRPG as a young kid (and recently). It was a great experience and while it never hit me as hard as what came to be the Mario & Luigi series.

It's hard to deny the popularity and influence of the game when the higher ups of the Smash Community have always talked about "The Big Three" Especially with a huge face like D1 actively hoping for Geno.

I don't like bringing up the Grinch but if that leak showed anything, It showed that many people wanted these characters in Smash.

 

[Noipoi]

You think you aren't talking to a guy who had a Waluigi avatar for two years?

I actually didn't know you had a Waluigi avatar for two years.

Clearly, we are brothers in WAAarms.

 

[NineS]

You know, I've just begun to wonder something. Assuming these DLC characters were chosen at the beginning, but they haven't even begun development on them until recently...

Is it possible that Sakurai may have made last minute changes to the DLC plan due to certain legal issues or difficulty in getting certain characters in?
Can a DLC character be scrapped?

 

[Robertman2]

So what? Should people stop wanting Geno?

no, i just want literally any other character discussed for once. it always loops back to geno and it's tiring

This is a very good point.

But... there are Native Americans in this thread who say they don't care about the Mr Game & Watch thing. One of them even pointed out that it was technically historically accurate.

Good rule of thumb. Just because one person says it doesn't offend them, doesn't mean it applies to everyone of that group.

 

[Idon]

You know, I've just begun to wonder something. Assuming these DLC characters were chosen at the beginning, but they haven't even begun development on them until recently...

Is it possible that Sakurai may have made last minute changes to the DLC plan due to certain legal issues or difficulty in getting certain characters in?
Can a DLC character be scrapped?

Yeah, but we'd never know because Sakurai would just move on to the next character on his infinite list.

 

[SAMation]

Geno supporters probably will only increase now that K Rool and Ridley fans are satisfied. Imagine the latter two fans combining to help out the last of the big three, Genos only gonna get more support from here on I’d say.

 

[RyuhoFox]

Honestly if Sakurai had gone to Square and asked for Geno do we really have any reason to believe if Square said no and offered another character like Sora or a DQ character that would benefit both companies more instead that Sakurai would say no to it?
We know that Sakurai has expressed interest in the character before but we don't know if his interest would stretch to a "Geno or nothing" attitude. He also works for a company and would want the deal to be something they can make a good profit from so it's more than possible for him to be open to other characters as well imo.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

My point about companies being smart by controlling the use of the IP remains.

I dont think that is how it would work. If I were Sakurai, I know that telling them they would get money wouldnt be enough. Companies make money from everything they do. I would ask for Geno and then offer them something nice on the side to sweeten the deal. Something like maybe new mii costumes to promote some of their future games.

I just want to point out your point is kind of ironic since Geno is IP. He's literally quite actually Square's intellectual property. So my scenario would in fact them be smartly controlling the use of their intellectual property that they're just....sort of sitting on.

 

[Noipoi]

Side note: I did a 180 on Incineroar and will give him a try!

Another has seen the light!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Gonna be perfectly honest here. I'm warming up to Incineroar. While I would had preferred the Pokemon developers gone with the saber-toothed cat design I do admit the detail of his design is pretty cool.

 

[Idon]

Not sure if Geno fans have it better or worse than fans of characters that got Assist Trophied.

 

[AugustusB]

Shifting Gears!

If we were to get an Atlus Rep, who would you want to be the Fighter?
I only have experience with Persona 5, but I know of SMT 3, Persona 3 & 4.

I think Joker would be a pretty awesome character. Though the gun (if used) would have to shoot magic or something IDK.

Also...doesn't Sakurai like Persona 5? I mean Spirits is kind of like fusing persona's to make a better...one....???

OH ****!! Joker could happen if Sakurai wants him!?

 

[KMDP]

Good rule of thumb. Just because one person says it doesn't offend them, doesn't mean it applies to everyone of that group.

You know you can turn that around, right?

 

[PLATINUM7]

This is a very good point.

But... there are Native Americans in this thread who say they don't care about the Mr Game & Watch thing. One of them even pointed out that it was technically historically accurate.

Fighting off foreign invaders building forts in your land and basically trying to commit genocide isn't a bad thing. I'm sure a lot of people would be understanding of that fact. Except in Fire Attack you're the one trying to fend off the native people who are being treated less than equal.

 

[Will]

Really only Geno and Banjo live when it comes to the big Boomer wants. Geno is a spirit, but [insert "not deconfirm" argument]. And Banjo is just nowhere in sight is only fighting for scraps against a ROBLOX avatar it was made before minecraft

 

[StrawHatX]

Gonna be perfectly honest here. I'm warming up to Incineroar. While I would had preferred the Pokemon developers gone with the saber-toothed cat design I do admit he detail of his design is pretty cool.

I warmed up to him to. I love the idea of a wrestler-type character in the roster. His model looks amazing too.

 

[Noipoi]

Shifting Gears!

If we were to get an Atlus Rep, who would you want to be the Fighter?
I only have experience with Persona 5, but I know of SMT 3, Persona 3 & 4.

I think Joker would be a pretty awesome character. Though the gun (if used) would have to shoot magic or something IDK.

Also...doesn't Sakurai like Persona 5? I mean Spirits is kind of like fusing persona's to make a better...one....???

OH ****!! Joker could happen if Sakurai wants him!?

Vincent from Catherine.

Seriously, maybe Joker. Or Demifiend for my Hee-Homeboy Idon

 

[Deleted member]

Geno supporters probably will only increase now that K Rool and Ridley fans are satisfied. Imagine the latter two fans combining to help out the last of the big three, Genos only gonna get more support from here on I’d say.

This is the best timeline, honestly. Ridley and King K. Rool fans funneling in to support the last one left is a ****ing timeline I wanna live in.
We all are in this boat, we gotta stick together and never give up hope.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I warmed up to him to. I love the idea of a wrestler-type character in the roster. His model looks amazing too.

My only nitpick with him is he looks like Tony the Tiger's cousin. Other then that, really cool design which I felt they could put more effort into differing him from said cereal mascot.

 

[Roberk]

Question: How would you all feel about this being the DLC pack?
-Geno
-Sora
-Steve
-Bandana Waddle Dee
-Master Chief

And a hypothetical worst case scenario:
-Steve
-Lara Croft
-Katalina
-Fire Emblem Rep
-Tingle

The "worst case scenario" isn't that bad tbh.

• I think Steve is incredibly deserving for obvious reasons.
• Lara Croft is a multimedia icon.
• Katalina has her fans overseas, if she's unique then why not. Nintendo is building a good relationship with Cygames which means more video games for us.
• Depends on who you add, you can have god-tier additions like Hector or a promotional character. Maybe meet somewhere in-between if the promotional character is unique and well-written.
• Tingle would be hilarious and would be an actual unique Zelda rep after so many years.

Y'all gotta broaden your horizons and think positively about these things.

 

[StrawHatX]

Not sure if Geno fans have it better or worse than fans of characters that got Assist Trophied.

I guess it depends on if Geno gets in as a playable character or not. As an Isaac fan I was crushed to see him as an AT once more, but after I’ve been able to process it I’m glad he’s at least in the game again with a new model.

 

[FixedFun]

A lovely reminder that one the greatest Square(soft)-Enix franchises, Itadaki Street made a crossover with Nintendo with great results. Nintendo and Square(soft)-Enix have no problem in collaborating at all, Geno is just that bridge to connect both companies for real, Geno is half Nintendo half Square(soft)-Enix, a bridge.
While I'm not the biggest fan of Geno, the things he represents are special.

 

[Slavic]

Shifting Gears!

If we were to get an Atlus Rep, who would you want to be the Fighter?
I only have experience with Persona 5, but I know of SMT 3, Persona 3 & 4.

I think Joker would be a pretty awesome character. Though the gun (if used) would have to shoot magic or something IDK.

Also...doesn't Sakurai like Persona 5? I mean Spirits is kind of like fusing persona's to make a better...one....???

OH ****!! Joker could happen if Sakurai wants him!?

so uh

I looked it up to make an Atlus decision and it turns out I've only played two Atlus games in my life...