Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KingofKoopas]

He's backpedaled on both, even harder on Katalina.
First he said she was 100% in, then he said she was 100% in as DLC, now he's saying (2 months ago) that she may not be in and they're still undergoing talks for her.
That's why I don't really believe that she's in. I don't think negotiations would still be going on at this point.

For season 1 of dlc no, i magine they wouldnt be.. But he could be right and it is for a season 2 dlc pass? I dunno.

 

[Pakky]

Okay based on some evidence of what Verg said and my own observations (I apologize you were right) here's my DLC List for season1

1. Geno/Sora
2. Katalina (Grandblue)
3. Steve (Minecraft)
4. Heihachi / Lylod
5. Rayman/BWD

 

[StrawHatX]

Unique
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.

Echos
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Ridley’s icon facing sideways bothers me more than it should.

 

[GoeGoe]

Let's not be mean, they just want to be real boys.

That was hard enough for me to say.. but I had to (sorry again, Rock)

If R.O.B. didn't have a soul why did he redeem himself in the Brawl story?

You know I wanted to say that. He's still a robot though. Mega Man does that all the time

robots having no soul
you know i know a guy who'd really make you question that kind of ideology

Unti I get to know the guy.. err robot. I can't question it. But he wouldn't be called a robot if he was. Maybe an android,

 

[KingofKoopas]

I liked kindom hearts 1. It was great. But the series declined for me for every new entry. I hated how the worlds were handled in kh2. And the side stories did nothing to help my interest. By the end, i was burned out on the series.

Theme songs are great and if simple and clean, and passion get in because of sora, i may rethink my disdain.

Well i was in a similar position back when the games first came out but then i played the ps3 remasterings and loved every game... Well except chain of memories 3d was still easy as hell to break and i honestly think the gba one is superior but still. Give it another shot if you got the time, nothing really to lose

 

[Chandeelure]

I think it's fine to be disappointed in a character inclusion AND to be disappointed that a character you want isn't in.
And I especially think it's fine that you should be able to discuss said disappointments in a fan-forum for topics like this.
Happiness isn't mandatory.

Are you serious?

This game has so much content and Sakurai works so hard, how dare you dislike something?
Stop complaining, if you don't like it don't buy it!!

Leave Sakurai alone, you ungrateful monster.

/s

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I just think there will be a lot of upset people seeing that a character from a mobile game getting in over some fan favorites. Just my opinion anyways :/

People will always find a way to be upset about something.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

NineS idk why it took me a while to get what your username was lol

 

[GoeGoe]

1. Geno/Sora
2. Katalina (Grandblue)
3. Steve (Minecraft)
4. Hitachi/ Lylod
5. Rayman/BWD

XDD who's Hitachi?

 

[Will]

You know I wanted to say that. He's still a robot though. Mega Man does that all the time

If your AI is complicated enough, it could replicate all the feelings.
I mean look at Fulgore from Killer Instinct. One day you're a Native American hot shot next day you're a robot being mass produced to kill, but you still have feelings of empathy and whatnot.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

The thing is, the slots have already been decided, so there's no point in complaining about it as if your character had a chance until the other character was in. Idon puts it better than I did:

But that shouldn't stop people from criticizing the choices that were made. For example, I have always been outspokenly critical of Sakurai's decision to heavily feature FE in 4 while leaving series like Metroid and Legend of Zelda in the dust, neither of which had a really unique newcomer from Melee until Ultimate. (hell in LOZ's case they still haven't gotten one)

Others can criticize Sakurai for deciding to put the time and energy into PP, or a Granblue rep, or what have you instead of characters that have had vocal and consistent support for years.

These are fair criticisms to make, if made well, and we shouldn't act like these decisions never needed to be made in the first place.

It's not like Sakurai said "Ok these are the DLC we're gonna do and whadya know, they just so happen to be five!"

No, it went like: "We have the funds and time to make five DLC, lets decide who they'll be."

 

[Mc.Rad]

XDD who's Hitachi?

I think they meant Hehactchi from Tekken but misspelled it... like that

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

He's backpedaled on both, even harder on Katalina.
First he said she was 100% in, then he said she was 100% in as DLC, now he's saying (2 months ago) that she may not be in and they're still undergoing talks for her.
That's why I don't really believe that she's in. I don't think negotiations would still be going on at this point.

If so, then it's back into the unknown. I like it better this way, since at least we can rationalise who else could be possible.

Man, the possibilities are endless. But hey, shouldn't that be his final smash? like C.Falcon. Oh wait, what if they raced? XD

I hadn't thought of that, that'd be cool actually.

But Vergeben is a literal hivemind of all of us, we are all Vergeben, and Vergeben is us

 

[A.G.L.]

Well I hope you get the chance to try it. I did start playing, it was beautiful (haven't played all the games btw, and it's been a while). But then Mega Man 11 came. Everything stops for Mega Man X)
You know, I'll tell you something that might convince you even more. Slime. one of the most recognizable enemies in gaming. Some heroes have their Slime partner. more recognition

I agree, and I know Sakurai is smarter than to include Geno but, that's not the smarts I'm talking about. I meant having a grip on loyality. Those are his long time fans, you don't buy those. And not everything should scale up to profit. He can gain that from other DLCs. This one's for the boys is what I think.

You are correct. So it's Katalina, Square rep and Microsoft rep. I've been calling Rash (Battletoads) to be the MS rep. That way, no Steve AND we get a Rare rep too. That puts Banjo for N64 Classic however. Oh and just any Minecraft something in Smash (since the leaks suggest that). Stage, AT.. etc. Waht do you think?

Megaman 11 seems like a great game iv only played the demo, but its really fun. I did play Dragon Quest builders and that was actually really fun. So if its better than that Im excited. I did see that Slime placed higher than Sora in Watch Mojo's most popular Square Enix characters. So I honestly can see what you're saying a Hero with Slime somewhere in his move set. Question is which hero would it be, the most recent hero or the most well known hero?

I feel like Sakurai would try to do that and would do that if it didn't involve a 3rd party, specifically if it didn't involve Square. I don't think Square will want to have their next character in Smash to be a character that does not represent them, thats just not how they do business. I have nothing against Geno and honestly if he was a Nintendo only character I would whole heartedly be putting my support behind him. Unfortunately thats not reality, and I feel despite the wants and nostalgia. Because it involves a 3rd party slot, it will not happen because he just is not relative anymore and doesn't represent Square. Despite all the loyalty theres much loyalty in other Square characters as well and for that reason I just do not see it.

Rash would be great, he is a guest character in Killer Instinct, but thats Microsoft owned so not really a guest. I would prefer him over Banjo and Steve so Im with you. I know people want Banjo, but he is seriously neglected by Microsoft. It almost makes no sense to start paying attention to a character that they haven't made a game for since 2008. Katalina would be an interesting addition Im not familiar with her, but more female characters can't hurt.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Can I point out that we saw a bunch of new Spirits in the Japanese live stream, yet there is still no sign of any Spirits from Xenoblade Chronicles X. What's the deal?

 

[Idon]

Are you serious?

This game has so much content and Sakurai works so hard, how dare you dislike something?
Stop complaining, if you don't like it don't buy it!!

Leave Sakurai alone, you ungrateful monster.

/s

You wouldn't believe the amount of times I've heard this unironically.

 

[Starbound]

I also went through the Mii Costume DLC list to see which characters are still MIA (not currently confirmed as a Spirit, AT, stage element, Mii Costume or part of a character):

• Jacky
• Heihachi
• K.K. Slider (unless he's on Smashville again)
• Lloyd Irving
• Monster Hunter
• Geno
• Chocobo
• Gil

Of these, I'm most surprised we haven't seen Heihachi or Lloyd yet. Maybe one of them will be DLC?

 

[GoeGoe]

If your AI is complicated enough, it could replicate all the feelings.
I mean look at Fulgore from Killer Instinct. One day you're a Native American hot shot next day you're a robot being mass produced to kill, but you still have feelings of empathy and whatnot.

Well, souls can't be replicated. It's the essence of life

Imagine if Shang-Tsung was beamed XDD.. ohh that would've been a huge mess XD

 

[ThatOneAnon]

You know, the more I hear, the more I'm honestly beginning to doubt a Granblue rep. I mean Vergeben never backpedaled on Incineroar, but if Hitagi's really backpedaling like crazy on Katalina then I dunno.

 

[N3ON]

Just remember there's a difference between Vergeben passing along what he's heard and actually affirming the information.

He's only done the former so far about Katalina and Steve (which he really shouldn't do since people will now attribute those claims to him instead of Hitagi - and it'll only rile him up), so until it becomes the latter, best to just keep it in mind without fully putting stock into it.

 

[shadowjosh]

I still say all the people getting upset about Katalina being in Ultimate would say the same thing about Marth being in Melee in 2000-2001.

and its not because Katalina looks like a Fire Emblem character

Not a fair comparison.

1. Marth was in base game, you're paying extra for Katalina. For some people, this would make Katalina better since you can skip her if you want. But it's a meaningful distinction.

2. Marth is from a first party SERIES that is at least really popular in Japan.

3. DLC slots are typically designed to sell to either/both fans of the series and casuals who like other series. So, first parties or big name third parties.

I'm not *mad* about her being in, I just think it's a really odd DLC choice. I hate Steve, but I understand. I don't understand this. Not being confrontational, just my opinion.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

I just think there will be a lot of upset people seeing that a character from a mobile game getting in over some fan favorites. Just my opinion anyways :/

There already are a lot of upset people.

 

[Jexulus]

Hmm. DLC as it was framed in the Direct makes talking about who they could be tricky. I've resigned myself to the disposition that ultimately it doesn't matter to me, since I'm a big fan of a lot of the characters new and old, but I did notice something highly unusual.

The Assist Trophy line-up is exactly 59 characters, as stated both in the Direct and on the official website. It's a very odd number to end development on. And looking on the official site, the list includes vets from both games like Waluigi and Samurai Goroh, returning Smash 4 vets like Skull Kid, and even bringing back old favorites like Isaac from Brawl (not in the form most people wanted, but still an old favorite). I ultimately noticed two things:

1. Custom Robo, despite being referenced in Melee and Brawl with trophies and Ray MkIII as a Brawl Assist Trophy, was completely gone in Smash 4. However, in Ultimate, Custom Robo is back in force with a full compliment of spirits and even a Ray MkIII costume for Mii Gunner, but the Assist Trophy is still absent. I take this to mean an accurate representation in AT form would be unfun because Ray was kinda bad since he was so small and his attacks so easily dodged, not necessarily that he's going to be one of the DLC characters. That'd be awesome for me, but I know the Custom Robo series has limited appeal. It's clear to me Custom Robo is referenced at all because trophies were cut.

2. Saki, one of the few Assist Trophies that was in both Brawl and Smash 4, is not in Ultimate. Now I don't know anything about Sin and Punishment, but I have to assume it's more popular than Custom Robo given it's had a VC re-release and a Wiiware title that came out later than CR Arena. And yet, Saki and co. are nowhere to be seen. I think this is deliberate; in fact, I think Saki was AT #60 and was cut last minute to be promoted to a DLC character, with a free content update featuring S&P spirits and references releasing alongside it. This is all the same circumstantial evidence that seemed to suggest Shadow had been promoted, I'm aware, but Sakurai has paid lip service to Saki being a viable choice as a fighter before.

 

[GoeGoe]

I think they meant Hehactchi from Tekken but misspelled it... like that

I know, am just teasing. He wouldn't want an air conditioner as a DLC wish X)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Question is which hero would it be, the most recent hero or the most well known hero?

Better yet, can they include every single Hero as alts? Even the female ones?

 

[Chandeelure]

You wouldn't believe the amount of times I've heard this unironically.

I believe it, that's why I wrote it haha.

I've seen this a lot.
It's like other type of "toxic" people.
They just don't respect opinions.

 

[Pakky]

XDD who's Hitachi?

That's Grammarly steering me in the wrong direction lol.

If not season 1 Sora will be in.

I have a strong feeling that KH3 is gonna be on Switch.

Now how many seasons for DLC are planned?

Don't know, but the conservative answer I'd wager is 3 and the bold answer can be anywhere from 4 to 5.

Though I'd imagine later ones might have echoes, which is fine as echoes have shifts in quality

 

[Arthur97]

Can I point out that we saw a bunch of new Spirits in the Japanese live stream, yet there is still no sign of any Spirits from Xenoblade Chronicles X. What's the deal?

Maybe they want to sweep their weird single player MMO under the rug.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I change my mind about Rex before. Call me delusional, but I still believe he has a chance for DLC. I'm not giving up on him yet. Xenoblade 2 deserves more representation than just a few songs, costumes, and spirits.

 

[StellerRJay]

I also went through the Mii Costume DLC list to see which characters are still MIA (not currently confirmed as a Spirit, AT, stage element, Mii Costume or part of a character):

• Jacky
• Heihachi
• K.K. Slider (unless he's on Smashville again)
• Lloyd Irving
• Monster Hunter
• Geno
• Chocobo
• Gil

Of these, I'm most surprised we haven't seen Heihachi or Lloyd yet. Maybe one of them will be DLC?

I bet you can't guess which Mii Costume was my favorite~

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That's Grammarly steering me in the wrong direction lol.

If not season 1 Sora will be in.

I have a strong feeling that KH3 is gonna be on Switch.

That's if there's more than 1 season, of course. I can expect at least two at minimum, three at maximum.

 

[Untouch]

I think Katalina would leave a sour taste in my mouth because it feels she only really has a chance because of Nintendo investing in Cygames, and since this would have been decided before that deal was made, TO ME it feels like part of a business deal rather than an actual decision by Sakurai. Granblue isn't the most popular gacha and Katalina isn't even the most popular Granblue character.
Which I guess is fine, but it's being sold. If Katalina was on the base roster I'd still be upset but I don't think as much.

I still don't actually think she's in, Vergeben hasn't heard anything about it for example, just MY THOUGHTS.

 

[CroonerMike]

I expect two more characters after the first 6 DLC characters.

 

[Pakky]

That's if there's more than 1 season, of course. I can expect at least two at minimum, three at maximum.

I'd be shocked if there's only one.

I mean we have a lot of content this is true, but the Switch is still pretty young and this is a flagship title.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I expect two more characters after the first 6 DLC characters.

Any reason you landed on two?

 

[Gyrom8]

Don't think being from a mobile game should matter too much but not too enthused about Katalina as she seems kind of bland tbh. Not a fan of Steve either, but at least his design looks uh... unique

If they do pick a 'literal who in the west' though, maybe they'll counterbalance it with someone not that big in Japan. Still expecting DLC to be largely third party, but BWD would probably be a good pick in appealing to both markets.

 

[Will]

Anyone whose Mii isn't wearing the Nintendo Labo set is a fraud.

 

[NapoleonDos]

I'm still going all-in on Geno being the SE rep. You wanna know why I know Spawn Wave and LeakyPanda are wrong?
Because there's no reveal coming at the VGAs. Sakurai said development on DLC would only start after the game was finished and out, and the VGAs happen a day before the game comes out.
I'd say, expect a Nintendo Direct sometime at the beginning of the year, possibly February since that's the same month Piranha Plant comes out. THAT will be where the first DLC character will be announced.

I know I'm the optimistic one, but I legitimately would not even be surprised if we got another freebie character that is not DLC.
We were told we know the whole roster. I get it. We are being told to avoud trying to hack and spoil and ruin the fun. I get that too.

I don't expect anything to come, but I also would expect the statement of 'thats all' no matter what the case.

Piranha made it even more odd. He isn't base. He isn't a dlc slot. He is something else.

 

[Pakky]

Anyone whose Mii isn't wearing the Nintendo Labo set is a fraud.

This is a valid point.

 

[Robertman2]

This is pretty unrelated to the Ultimate but I'm curious: Does anyone know where that "Melee players hate soap" meme came from? I just realized I don't know why is that made up.

Competitive Smash players for whatever reason are usually less clean then other FGCs.

And by less clean I mean like, baths and ****.