Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nethermoosen]

He's clearly black.

Right...they all are. What about it?

 

[Radical Bones]

Eh.
Japan as a whole doesn't really care about being "PC" so *Shrugs*


I'm not saying the G&W thing is cool, but "It's Japan".

They might not have the same awareness of the topic as NA.

Here in Australia we have a really poor history of mistreating our indigenous people so we'd consider things like that.

Wouldn't be top of mind in Japan.

 

[Kuon]

We're better off finding out we're getting a Granblue character and Steve now instead of hoping for other characters and getting disappointed.

Disappointed by Katalina and Steve or by other characters?

 

[Zinith]

Wait, will Piranha Plant have the ability to eat items?

If so, *sigh*

 

[Sigran101]

Okay, but Square has nothing to lose and much more to gain by making Sakurai use a more relevant and popular character like Sora, Erdrick, or Lara Croft. Why use Geno, a niche character with a small (according to Square Enix) fanbase, when you can use someone current and able to be used for promotion?

Sakurai has likely gone to SE before and asked for Geno only to be told no, and he's just come to accept that Geno won't be in. So, he goes to Square Enix for another character (Cloud, 2nd SE Rep) and tries to get Geno in as much as possible because he loves him. He still won't be able to make Geno a playable fighter because at the end of the day Square Enix is the one who owns him, and they have the end say.

As as Sakurai and his team are masters of negotiation, if Square Enix doesn't want Geno in Smash, then he's not going to be in Smash.

But they can't make him add someone else though. Sakurai decides the roster and Sakurai alone. If he wants Geno he'll ask for Geno. If square says no he'll go back and revise his plans. Maybe he'll decide to ask for sora instead. Maybe he'll decide to ask Microsoft for Banjo instead. Square has the power to say yes or no. They don't have the power to shoehorn any character they want onto the roster. Granted I think both sora and gene will be in. This is purely hypothetical.

 

[Robertman2]

Wouldn't be surprised if that's removed from the Western versions


Inb4 chuckleheads boycott over """censorship""" or muh freeze speech or whatever

 

[MainJPW]

To everyone here on Smashboards! What drugs are you all smoking to think that a stupid, generic flower (With a crappy moveset) is the best ever?????????

Please! Take to that realm of insanity so I can join you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's nothing cooler than a potted plant that can hand you your ass on a platter.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

You better wait a minute, better hold the phone. Better mind your manners, better change your tone...

I'm just a mean green fighter, that's out of place, in smaaaash, (mean green smaaash)
I'm just a mean green fighter, that's out of place, and the grinch leak just went bad,
I'm just a mean green fighter, that's out of place, so get on out of my roster space,

Cause I'm mean and green!

And I'm in SMASH!

 

[Kuon]

Wouldn't be surprised if that's removed from the Western versions


Inb4 chuckleheads boycott over """censorship""" or muh freeze speech or whatever

If what's removed?

 

[Lyndis_]

Eh.
Japan as a whole doesn't really care about being "PC" so *Shrugs*


I'm not saying the G&W thing is cool, but "It's Japan".

I get that excuse for other things, but for this seems kinda blatant and too far for that to really apply anymore IMHO. It just shouldn't be considered okay, especially being that it's going to be released here in the states with that in it as well.

 

[Louisacommie]

Eh.
Japan as a whole doesn't really care about being "PC" so *Shrugs*


I'm not saying the G&W thing is cool, but "It's Japan".

Japan actually does have major leftwing movements

Though the government has basically been one party right wing rule since world war 2,

While many Japanese people are unfamiliar with say black people and native Americans outside of some celebrities, it's not a country where a majority of its people are racist like some right wingers claim.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

If what's removed?

G&W makes a pose in which he imitates one of his games that are about natives attacking a cowboy or something

 

[SuperSceptile15]

There's something I want clarified in regards to which characters can make it for DLC. Is Rex (or any other Xenoblade 2 rep) out of the running? What's the cutoff date for a character's game? I know that Rex couldn't make it into the base roster because Xenoblade 2 was released too late. Does that also apply to DLC?

 

[Deleted member]

Wouldn't be surprised if that's removed from the Western versions


Inb4 chuckleheads boycott over """censorship""" or muh freeze speech or whatever

Hey I resent that statement

 

[Robertman2]

If what's removed?

The Native American Game & Watch sprite.

 

[StupendousMike]

Inb4 chuckleheads boycott over """censorship""" or muh freeze speech or whatever

Let them. Those people are the worst.

 

[xjthegulpin]

Reminder that with all of the deconfirmations in the direct, Rhythm Heaven continues to be the biggest first party to not have a stage and a character/assist. If Rhythm Heaven still doesn’t get in as DLC, that will really sting.

 

[John Dylan Smith]

Doesn't he spit poison gas, have a helicopter move, blow projectiles at people n ****?

A Helicopter move!! Haven't seen that anywhere before (Except with K. Rool)
Blowing projectiles!! Haven't seen this anywhere before either (Except with Bowser Jr,)
And unleashing gas! I'm sure I haven't already see that (Except with Wario)

Face it!!! Nothing about that stupid flower is original and you all should save that 10 dollars you all were gonna use to buy that waste of potential!!!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member]

WWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYY! That stupid plant has nothing about him that sets him apart from Wario (You could just play Wario if you want the same experience)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the fact that you have pay 20 bucks for a crappy flower is just as horrendous as the micro transactions in Star War Battlefront II!!!!!!!!!!!

As someone who was a Wario main for 10 years,

No. Heck no. Piranha Plant is nothing like Wario.

 

[Opossum]

As a fun fact, King K. Rool is officially the Ultimate newcomer who has appeared in the most cinematic trailers.

Inkling: 2 (Reveal cinematic, World of Light)
Ridley: 1 (Ridley reveal)
Simon: 2 (Simon reveal, World of Light)
King K. Rool: 3 (King K. Rool reveal, Incineroar reveal, World of Light)
Isabelle: 1 (Isabelle reveal)
Incineroar: 1 (Incineroar reveal)

 

[Sigran101]

What's this game and watch controversy? Is he doing something even more offensive than jacking off in public now?

Edit: never mind I saw it above. My computer loads screens weird.

 

[Shroob]

I get that excuse for other things, but for this seems kinda blatant and too far for that to really apply anymore IMHO. It just shouldn't be considered okay, especially being that it's going to be released here in the states with that in it as well.

They could just.... remove the feather when it gets ported over.


That's the problem when you decide to make a reference to something from bygone days.


Back when I was a kid, "Cowboys and Indians" was a game the boys would play in the backyard. Nowadays that's considered racist or offensive. Back when they made the game that's based on, they weren't as PC as the modern day is.

 

[Robertman2]

A Helicopter move!! Haven't seen that anywhere before (Except with K. Rool)
Blowing projectiles!! Haven't seen this anywhere before either (Except with Bowser Jr,)
And unleashing gas! I'm sure I haven't already see that (Except with Wario)

Face it!!! Nothing about that stupid flower is original and you all should save that 10 dollars you all were gonna use to buy that waste of potential!!!!!!!!

Then who the **** do you want?

 

[SmashingXan2]

It's literally the same as 4, Chrom and all.

Where have you seen it?

 

[FirestormNeos]

Despite the Grinch Leak being fake, it ironically softened the blow for me. The Grinch Leak was able to take my (as well as everyone else's) minds off of the Vergeben leak. I ****ing hated how we were for months just repeatedly going "Kencineroar! Kencineroar! Kencineroar!" to the point where-- had the direct come out with only one leak everyone kept yammering about, as opposed to the two leaks going at eachother with people taking sides --I would've legitimately flipped my **** (I still would've loved though).

View attachment 175229 yikes

View attachment 175230

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

A Helicopter move!! Haven't seen that anywhere before (Except with K. Rool)
Blowing projectiles!! Haven't seen this anywhere before either (Except with Bowser Jr,)
And unleashing gas! I'm sure I haven't already see that (Except with Wario)

Face it!!! Nothing about that stupid flower is original and you all should save that 10 dollars you all were gonna use to buy that waste of potential!!!!!!!!

But your claim is that he was just wario cause he farts and chomps but he clearly doesn't just fart or chomp

In fact I dont think he actually farts

 

[KMDP]

I'll get Shulk to fight Galleem to redeem himself.
"Back then, I couldn't save anyone... I saw it. I saw their fates and yet I couldn't do anything. I was powerless... just like that time. But not anymore! Today, I will change the future!"

To the tune of "Engage the Enemy"? (What? I like that song)

 

[XLIFE]

Alright. Now that I have the time to make a case for a character, I feel that with the Fighters Pass and DLC OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED, we can truly now begin speculating for what and who should be in. I think that when we take DLC into consideration, it should be an absolute banger. We're not in the realm of Smash 4 anymore where all the rules were broken, we're in the realm of "Every rule has been broken before. Go all out." Which is why now, especially with series like Street Fighter and Virtua Fighter getting some love, I wanna make the case for Bandai Namco's very own Tekken. And a specific character.

People of the board, I present to you...

The Case of Tekken's Heihachi Mishima Joining the Smash Ultimate Roster

View attachment 175210

Here are a few points I like to present to show why Heihachi would be fit for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

Tekken's Legacy and Current Status

Spoiler: Explanation

Over time, Tekken has become one of the "giants", when it comes to the fighting game genre. Yes, you have your 2D-fighters like Street Fighter and King of Fighters, and then you have your 3D ones, like Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter. But Tekken stands on it's own two feet amongst these greats by making a compelling campaign that the fans love, with characters that have become a staple for not just the FGC, but gaming in general. There was a reason why Street Fighter X Tekken was made, after all. ...Even if it was a bit "meh", but STILL. For the most iconic fighting game franchise to collaborate with Tekken is a sight to behold.

What makes Tekken have the leg up, also, is that you may not know, but they have some pretty big Nintendo relevance, too. Firstly, Tekken Tag Tournament 2 was the franchises' first big jump onto a Nintendo platform. It was not bad and a pretty good game, definitely attracted some Tekken fans. Then came the big one - Pokken Tournament. Easily this has been a beloved game, a game that mixes Pokemon's fan favorite characters and Tekken's core gameplay? Who could pass that up? So far, it has been stated in Nintendo's reports that even the Switch release of Pokken Tournament, "Pokken Tournament DX" is in the top 20 most-sold Switch games, making it both sold a million on Switch and Wii U.

But what about now? Does it stand up still against these colossal fighters like Soul Calibur and Street Fighter? The answer is abso-****ing-lutely. The reactions to The Walking Dead's Negan and Final Fantasy XV's Noctis joining the battle should leave you with little explanation. Tekken 7 has become a blockbuster hit, and was released back in 2015. Easily enough time for Sakurai to fit him in as a DLC before the project plans have finalized. It even shows with the Mii Costume that he got, and especially with the short little video with him and Ryu back in Smash For. Whether it'd be because the Mishima Saga came to a bittersweet end or even the create-a-character, it's simple to see that Tekken has grown year-by-year, and definitely won't be leaving anytime soon.

Heihachi's Legacy as a Character

Spoiler: Explanation

Whether you like it or not, especially when we have the likes of Jin Kazama in the mix, with the setting and build up over the years, Heihachi has been probably the most iconic character in Tekken, and it shows too, when they chosen him for who would be a Mii Costume to represent Tekken. He's most notably known as a bit of a "villainous"-type of character, which fits Smash Ultimate's motif of "Heroes VS. Rivals". To give a bit of his backstory:




Due to how well-written and impactful Heihachi has become as a character in the Tekken franchise, he has always been met with praise from fans and journalists, whether it be his moves or characterization. His popularity has led to him often to even be one of Sony's mascots, "as well as one of the best characters in fighting games". It's definitely shown in that regard when he was chosen into the roster for PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale. When you think of an iconic fighting game character, back then, you would only really say "Ryu", but now? Heihachi definitely is one of them.

Some Love for Bandai

Spoiler: Explanation

This point is a bit of a simple one, but I think makes the sense, in the long term. Bandai Namco helped Sakurai and Nintendo to develop not only just Smash for 3DS and Wii U, but they also helped them develop Smash Ultimate. The roster currently has an ample amount of 3rd parties, but let's compare Bandai Namco to the rest and see why they should get another character.

Konami - 3 (Snake, Simon & Richter Belmont)​

Sega - 2 (Sonic and Bayonetta)​

Capcom - 3 (Mega Man, Ryu and Ken)​

Square Enix - 2 (Cloud and a rumored character)​

Bandai Namco - 1 (PAC-MAN)​

​

As you can see, there are generally, if you don't count echo fighters, 2 characters for each character across the board for all the third parties, but yet only Namco has one. It'd make sense to round out all the companies and give Namco one more fighter. And who else would do fit better for Namco than Tekken?

Status in Smash

Spoiler: Explanation

For Heihachi, Tekken so far represented in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate so far has been unconfirmed. We haven't seen him or Tekken in Spirits and World of Light, but as we've collectively confirmed where we have pretty much all the characters in the roster have different variations of Spirits, AND the Mewtwo + Lucas 3DS Trophy Situation, Spirits doesn't deconfirm a character, so we'll put that to the side. But when it comes to adding a new character, there seems to be two big patterns when it comes to either a past franchise or fighter getting in or not, and that's from being a Mii Costume or an Assist Trophy. While there have been a few ATs promoted to playable fighter status, like Isabelle and Little Mac, Mii Costumes seem to be the one people look towards the most, and with good reason. They're actually a part of the roster, but as a part of the Mii Fighters, to make you feel like you're playing as them. So first, let's take a look at the current Mii Costume status and see where Heihachi and some characters are at.

View attachment 175223

As you can see, for Heihachi being the sole rep for his franchise, no costume has been shown to be in Smash Ultimate, as of now. And if, by the off chance it does happen, it wouldn't necessarily deconfirm him, as we have Captain Falcon and Link outfits in Ultimate. But, with Smash Ultimate, there's a clear pattern of a BIG amount of costumes getting promoted to either a fighter or an AT. But what adds possible credence to Heihachi is that he is also not a part of the Assist Trophy roster, which you can see here with a full list of the 59 usable ATs.

Spoiler: AT List

• Akira - Virtua Fighter
• Alucard - Castlevania
• Andross - Star Fox
• Arcade Bunny - Nintendo Arcade
• Ashley - WarioWare
• Black Knight - Fire Emblem
• Bomberman - Bomberman
• Burrowing Snagret - Pikmin
• Chain Chomp - Super Mario
• Chef Kawasaki - Kirby
• Color TV-Game 15 - It's literally ****ing Pong.
• Devil - Devil World
• Dillon - Dillon's Rolling Western
• Dr. Kawashima - Brain Age (A.K.A. WII U TOP CHARTER BAYBEE!!)
• Dr. Wright - SimCity
• Flies & Hand - Mario Paint
• Ghirahim - The Legend of Zelda
• Ghosts - PAC-MAN
• Gray Fox - Metal Gear Solid
• Guile - Street Fighter
• Hammer Bro - Super Mario
• Isaac - Golden Sun (****ing R.I.P.)
• Jeff - EarthBound
• Kapp'n - Animal Crossing
• Klaptrap - Donkey Kong
• Knuckle Joe - Kirby
• Knuckles - Sonic
• Krystal - Star Fox
• Lyn - Fire Emblem
• Metroid - Metroid
• Midna - The Legend of Zelda
• The Moon - The Legend of Zelda
• Mother Brain - Metroid
• Nightmare - Kirby
• Nikki - Swapnote (Actually R.I.P.)
• nintendog - nintendogs
• Phosphora - Kid Icarus
• Rathalos - Monster Hunter
• Riki - Xenoblade Chronicles
• Rodin - Bayonetta
• Sablé Prince - From Whom The Frog Bell Tolls
• Samurai Goroh - F-Zero
• Shadow - Sonic (R.I.P.)
• Sheriff - What even is his game. "Sheriff"? Yeah, real original.
• Shovel Knight - Shovel Knight
• Skull Kid - The Legend of Zelda
• Spring Man - ARMS
• Squid Sisters (Callie & Marie) - Splatoon
• Starfy - The Legendary Starfy
• Starman - EarthBound
• Sukapon - Sukapon
• Takamaru - The Mysterious Murasame Castle
• Tiki - Fire Emblem
• Thwomp - Super Mario
• Vince - Art Academy
• Waluigi - Super Mario (Where he belongs.)
• Dr. Wily - Mega Man
• Yuri Kozukata - Fatal Frame
• Zero - Mega Man

Yep. Heihachi is nowhere to be seen. With Akira's Virtua Fighter getting some love and a HUGE boost in representation for Street Fighter in Smash Ultimate - when we're talking about games that are a part of the fighting game genre - it seems as if Tekken has been conspicuously absent. No doubt that after the Mii Costume reveal, he had to have gotten a level of support for him to be in Smash, especially after Ryu. But how would he work, moveset-wise? Well, after being shown what Akira would look like if he was a playable character, I don't think him fitting on a 2D plane would be a problem, especially after Street Fighter X Tekken. I feel as if if you can look at some of Incineroar's and Ryu's moveset and combine that with the feeling of how Akira looks and plays and look at how Tekken plays as it's own respective game, I feel that a moveset for him wouldn't be THAT hard to make. Hell, look at Ken - he's was able to wiggle out some more creativity out of Ryu's moveset.

If I were to draw any conclusions is that with the timing of Tekken 7's release, the project plan for Smash Ultimate AND DLC project plans for Smash For and Ultimate, and with the points presented, it feels as if Tekken will not get the treatment that Virtua Fighter will get, but rather, I feel that Heihachi from Tekken will become a playable fighter.

I'd like Heihachi to pop up somewhere other than Tekken due to T7 reasons. I don't know if I'm feeling him for Smash though. Don't get me wrong, I'd welcome him with open arms, but I'd like him to show up somewhere he could stay and be involved as a character. I want him to be in SC mainly because I'm under the impression he'd become a series staple.

 

[Deleted member]

A Helicopter move!! Haven't seen that anywhere before (Except with K. Rool)
Blowing projectiles!! Haven't seen this anywhere before either (Except with Bowser Jr,)
And unleashing gas! I'm sure I haven't already see that (Except with Wario)

Face it!!! Nothing about that stupid flower is original and you all should save that 10 dollars you all were gonna use to buy that waste of potential!!!!!!!!

I suggest we cut everyone who punches. Mario already does that.

Link uses a sword already, cut everyone with a sword.

Anyone who uses a gun, can 'em. Got Samus.

This is getting a little silly, but eh, to each their own.

 

[Noipoi]

As a fun fact, King K. Rool is officially the Ultimate newcomer who has appeared in the most cinematic trailers.

Inkling: 2 (Reveal cinematic, World of Light)
Ridley: 1 (Ridley reveal)
Simon: 2 (Simon reveal, World of Light)
King K. Rool: 3 (King K. Rool reveal, Incineroar reveal, World of Light)
Isabelle: 1 (Isabelle reveal)
Incineroar: 1 (Incineroar reveal)

He's trying to make the most of his time before he disappears for another decade.

 

[MyDude213]

That still doesn't make me want to spend 10 dollars on the plant or purchase a copy of Smash Ultimate!!!!!

Unless they announce a worthy DLC character like Geno/Sora/Crono Or Banjo Kazooie!!! Count me the hell out!!!!!!!

So let me guess this straight, a game with an already massive roster of 70 characters still hasn't sold you because and I qoute. Pirahna Plant isn't worth the money? K then don't buy him simple as that he's not even a part of the season pass hell he isn't a character you have to pay for like the first 2 months of the game being out since he's free if you register the game in your Nintendo gold account. I genuinely do not see the problem here, look we can't validate your purchases if you don't want to get him that's your choice and has nothing to do with us so chill bro.

 

[perfectchaos83]

There's something I want clarified in regards to which characters can make it for DLC. Is Rex (or any other Xenoblade 2 rep) out of the running? What's the cutoff date for a character's game? I know that Rex couldn't make it into the base roster because Xenoblade 2 was released too late. Does that also apply to DLC?

If anything, he's absolutely out of the first wave of DLC. IF (and I do mean if) There's a 2nd wave then he may have a shot and it's something I really hope Sakurai considers.

 

[SAMation]

Yall think people would be this mad if Wii Fit Trainer was actually a DLC character last game? :thinking:

 

[Sigran101]

A Helicopter move!! Haven't seen that anywhere before (Except with K. Rool)
Blowing projectiles!! Haven't seen this anywhere before either (Except with Bowser Jr,)
And unleashing gas! I'm sure I haven't already see that (Except with Wario)

Face it!!! Nothing about that stupid flower is original and you all should save that 10 dollars you all were gonna use to buy that waste of potential!!!!!!!!

There's plenty of reasons to dislike piranha plant. The moveset is not one of them. And again, he is literally free.

 

[MainJPW]

This was probably already posted, but... is that really a Big alt?

THEY ACTUALLY F=$4"××GUIHVS pic.twitter.com/YOtIOVsDhc

— empurror (@empurror) November 2, 2018

It's the same colour scheme even down to the eyes. Instant main.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Yall think people would be this mad if Wii Fit Trainer was actually a DLC character last game? :thinking:

Oh **** yes they would be

TBF PP isn't DLC either he's a bonus

 

[ZephyrZ]

Yall think people would be this mad if Wii Fit Trainer was actually a DLC character last game? :thinking:

No, I don't think they'd be this mad.

They'd be furious! Outraged! Sick with anger!

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

There's something I want clarified in regards to which characters can make it for DLC. Is Rex (or any other Xenoblade 2 rep) out of the running? What's the cutoff date for a character's game? I know that Rex couldn't make it into the base roster because Xenoblade 2 was released too late. Does that also apply to DLC?

It gives me the feeling the DLC characters have been planned for a long time, maybe they were even intended for the base game considering we only ended up getting 6 newcomers after all, and those 6 blank stage slots on the stage select kinda give that impression too.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

If anything, he's absolutely out of the first wave of DLC. IF (and I do mean if) There's a 2nd wave then he may have a shot and it's something I really hope Sakurai considers.

I see. That makes sense. Since I doubt there will be a second wave, it's too bad. I really loved playing through Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and to see it not get a stage or playable character in Smash stings just a bit. I could even hear the sympathy in Sakurai's voice when he confirmed Rex only as a mii costume. Looks like unfortunate timing is the culprit here. Oh well. Thanks for responding.

 

[Deleted member]

This was probably already posted, but... is that really a Big alt?

THEY ACTUALLY F=$4"××GUIHVS pic.twitter.com/YOtIOVsDhc

— empurror (@empurror) November 2, 2018

It's the same colour scheme even down to the eyes. Instant main.

Welp, guess I'm an Incineroar main now.