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If there is a reveal next month, can we stop the "Sakurai doesn't work on DLC until the game is over" belief?
Piranha Plant, despite being a joke, obviously has a LOT of work put into them when the game only recently went gold, and if they have another character(Sora/DQ), then that'd be TWO DLC characters they were working on before they had finished up production on the main game.
No it isn't! It's a crappy Wario Echo that also should have been an enemy you fight in the World Of Light Mini Game (Or As I like to call it, Smash Tour 2.0)!!!!!!!!!!!
I think people tend to overlook the fact Sakurai is actually a fan of Kingdom Hearts. He has even gone out to congratulate the series on it's 15th anniversary before and commentated on the duality of developing a massive crossover like KH and Smash Bros. As well as his enjoyment of the game's story telling.
Sakurai of all people stands out in that magazine as he's the only one who has nothing to do with Kingdom Hearts, yet here he is personally congratulating them.
He and Normura have been very close since they worked together to get Cloud into Sm4sh, so Normura would obviously approve of Sakurai adding Sora into Smash. From there he doesn't have to go through Square Enix and works with Disney, who simply monitor his work to make sure he's faithful to the material, which of course he will by virtue of being Sakurai and having Normura's blessing.
Lets hope Sora gets revealed soon. The VGAs can't come soon enough.
Agreed it's better to just wait for official news by Nintendo or Sakurai themselves rather than getting hype over theoretical crap like that which probably doesn't mean anything anyway. I mean Clearly I want Sora in if that isn't obvious enough by my profile pic of a Keyblade I made to campaign his inclusion. But gotta keep that bias in check or risk massive disappointment. lol
Hey, I've never actually played a KH game. I don't really have any personnel connection to Sora, but I still find the presence of apparently unique, large, nobody dice in the background interesting, or at least confusing.
Alright. Now that I have the time to make a case for a character, I feel that with the Fighters Pass and DLC OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED, we can truly now begin speculating for what and who should be in. I think that when we take DLC into consideration, it should be an absolute banger. We're not in the realm of Smash 4 anymore where all the rules were broken, we're in the realm of "Every rule has been broken before. Go all out." Which is why now, especially with series like Street Fighter and Virtua Fighter getting some love, I wanna make the case for Bandai Namco's very own Tekken. And a specific character.
People of the board, I present to you...
The Case of Tekken's Heihachi Mishima Joining the Smash Ultimate Roster
Here are a few points I like to present to show why Heihachi would be fit for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
Tekken's Legacy and Current Status
Over time, Tekken has become one of the "giants", when it comes to the fighting game genre. Yes, you have your 2D-fighters like Street Fighter and King of Fighters, and then you have your 3D ones, like Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter. But Tekken stands on it's own two feet amongst these greats by making a compelling campaign that the fans love, with characters that have become a staple for not just the FGC, but gaming in general. There was a reason why Street Fighter X Tekken was made, after all. ...Even if it was a bit "meh", but STILL. For the most iconic fighting game franchise to collaborate with Tekken is a sight to behold.
What makes Tekken have the leg up, also, is that you may not know, but they have some pretty big Nintendo relevance, too. Firstly, Tekken Tag Tournament 2 was the franchises' first big jump onto a Nintendo platform. It was not bad and a pretty good game, definitely attracted some Tekken fans. Then came the big one - Pokken Tournament. Easily this has been a beloved game, a game that mixes Pokemon's fan favorite characters and Tekken's core gameplay? Who could pass that up? So far, it has been stated in Nintendo's reports that even the Switch release of Pokken Tournament, "Pokken Tournament DX" is in the top 20 most-sold Switch games, making it both sold a million on Switch and Wii U.
But what about now? Does it stand up still against these colossal fighters like Soul Calibur and Street Fighter? The answer is abso-****ing-lutely. The reactions to The Walking Dead's Negan and Final Fantasy XV's Noctis joining the battle should leave you with little explanation. Tekken 7 has become a blockbuster hit, and was released back in 2015. Easily enough time for Sakurai to fit him in as a DLC before the project plans have finalized. It even shows with the Mii Costume that he got, and especially with the short little video with him and Ryu back in Smash For. Whether it'd be because the Mishima Saga came to a bittersweet end or even the create-a-character, it's simple to see that Tekken has grown year-by-year, and definitely won't be leaving anytime soon.
Heihachi's Legacy as a Character
Whether you like it or not, especially when we have the likes of Jin Kazama in the mix, with the setting and build up over the years, Heihachi has been probably the most iconic character in Tekken, and it shows too, when they chosen him for who would be a Mii Costume to represent Tekken. He's most notably known as a bit of a "villainous"-type of character, which fits Smash Ultimate's motif of "Heroes VS. Rivals". To give a bit of his backstory:
Heihachi appears as the leader of an empire known as the Mishima Zaibatsu. He was the protagonist of Tekken 2, and was a boss character in two additional installments. He is opposed by many of his relatives who wish his death and taking over the Zaibatsu across the series after Heihachi betrayed them whereas Heihachi wants to defeat his son and grandson, Kazuya Mishima and Jin Kazama respectively, in order to obtain their Devil Gene powers. Heihachi's past and motives are revealed in Tekken 7 which is said to be his final appearance in story.
Due to how well-written and impactful Heihachi has become as a character in the Tekken franchise, he has always been met with praise from fans and journalists, whether it be his moves or characterization. His popularity has led to him often to even be one of Sony's mascots, "as well as one of the best characters in fighting games". It's definitely shown in that regard when he was chosen into the roster for PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale. When you think of an iconic fighting game character, back then, you would only really say "Ryu", but now? Heihachi definitely is one of them.
Some Love for Bandai
This point is a bit of a simple one, but I think makes the sense, in the long term. Bandai Namco helped Sakurai and Nintendo to develop not only just Smash for 3DS and Wii U, but they also helped them develop Smash Ultimate. The roster currently has an ample amount of 3rd parties, but let's compare Bandai Namco to the rest and see why they should get another character.
Konami - 3 (Snake, Simon & Richter Belmont)
Sega - 2 (Sonic and Bayonetta)
Capcom - 3 (Mega Man, Ryu and Ken)
Square Enix - 2 (Cloud and a rumored character)
Bandai Namco - 1 (PAC-MAN)
As you can see, there are generally, if you don't count echo fighters, 2 characters for each character across the board for all the third parties, but yet only Namco has one. It'd make sense to round out all the companies and give Namco one more fighter. And who else would do fit better for Namco than Tekken?
Status in Smash
For Heihachi, Tekken so far represented in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate so far has been unconfirmed. We haven't seen him or Tekken in Spirits and World of Light, but as we've collectively confirmed where we have pretty much all the characters in the roster have different variations of Spirits, AND the Mewtwo + Lucas 3DS Trophy Situation, Spirits doesn't deconfirm a character, so we'll put that to the side. But when it comes to adding a new character, there seems to be two big patterns when it comes to either a past franchise or fighter getting in or not, and that's from being a Mii Costume or an Assist Trophy. While there have been a few ATs promoted to playable fighter status, like Isabelle and Little Mac, Mii Costumes seem to be the one people look towards the most, and with good reason. They're actually a part of the roster, but as a part of the Mii Fighters, to make you feel like you're playing as them. So first, let's take a look at the current Mii Costume status and see where Heihachi and some characters are at.
As you can see, for Heihachi being the sole rep for his franchise, no costume has been shown to be in Smash Ultimate, as of now. And if, by the off chance it does happen, it wouldn't necessarily deconfirm him, as we have Captain Falcon and Link outfits in Ultimate. But, with Smash Ultimate, there's a clear pattern of a BIG amount of costumes getting promoted to either a fighter or an AT. But what adds possible credence to Heihachi is that he is also not a part of the Assist Trophy roster, which you can see here with a full list of the 59 usable ATs.
Akira - Virtua Fighter
Alucard - Castlevania
Andross - Star Fox
Arcade Bunny - Nintendo Arcade
Ashley - WarioWare
Black Knight - Fire Emblem
Bomberman - Bomberman
Burrowing Snagret - Pikmin
Chain Chomp - Super Mario
Chef Kawasaki - Kirby
Color TV-Game 15 - It's literally ****ing Pong.
Devil - Devil World
Dillon - Dillon's Rolling Western
Dr. Kawashima - Brain Age (A.K.A. WII U TOP CHARTER BAYBEE!!)
Dr. Wright - SimCity
Flies & Hand - Mario Paint
Ghirahim - The Legend of Zelda
Ghosts - PAC-MAN
Gray Fox - Metal Gear Solid
Guile - Street Fighter
Hammer Bro - Super Mario
Isaac - Golden Sun (****ing R.I.P.)
Jeff - EarthBound
Kapp'n - Animal Crossing
Klaptrap - Donkey Kong
Knuckle Joe - Kirby
Knuckles - Sonic
Krystal - Star Fox
Lyn - Fire Emblem
Metroid - Metroid
Midna - The Legend of Zelda
The Moon - The Legend of Zelda
Mother Brain - Metroid
Nightmare - Kirby
Nikki - Swapnote (Actually R.I.P.)
nintendog - nintendogs
Phosphora - Kid Icarus
Rathalos - Monster Hunter
Riki - Xenoblade Chronicles
Rodin - Bayonetta
Sablé Prince - From Whom The Frog Bell Tolls
Samurai Goroh - F-Zero
Shadow - Sonic (R.I.P.)
Sheriff - What even is his game. "Sheriff"? Yeah, real original.
Shovel Knight - Shovel Knight
Skull Kid - The Legend of Zelda
Spring Man - ARMS
Squid Sisters (Callie & Marie) - Splatoon
Starfy - The Legendary Starfy
Starman - EarthBound
Sukapon - Sukapon
Takamaru - The Mysterious Murasame Castle
Tiki - Fire Emblem
Thwomp - Super Mario
Vince - Art Academy
Waluigi - Super Mario (Where he belongs.)
Dr. Wily - Mega Man
Yuri Kozukata - Fatal Frame
Zero - Mega Man
Yep. Heihachi is nowhere to be seen. With Akira's Virtua Fighter getting some love and a HUGE boost in representation for Street Fighter in Smash Ultimate - when we're talking about games that are a part of the fighting game genre - it seems as if Tekken has been conspicuously absent. No doubt that after the Mii Costume reveal, he had to have gotten a level of support for him to be in Smash, especially after Ryu. But how would he work, moveset-wise? Well, after being shown what Akira would look like if he was a playable character, I don't think him fitting on a 2D plane would be a problem, especially after Street Fighter X Tekken. I feel as if if you can look at some of Incineroar's and Ryu's moveset and combine that with the feeling of how Akira looks and plays and look at how Tekken plays as it's own respective game, I feel that a moveset for him wouldn't be THAT hard to make. Hell, look at Ken - he's was able to wiggle out some more creativity out of Ryu's moveset.
If I were to draw any conclusions is that with the timing of Tekken 7's release, the project plan for Smash Ultimate AND DLC project plans for Smash For and Ultimate, and with the points presented, it feels as if Tekken will not get the treatment that Virtua Fighter will get, but rather, I feel that Heihachi from Tekken will become a playable fighter.
Personally I'd be really hyped for an out of nowhere Steve reveal trailer in a direct.
Let's be honest, if others weren't suggesting it we wouldn't even be talking about him as a possibility.
Also for once I'd like to be the one to have a character I'm really happy about that makes everyone else salty please let me have this Sakurai
Incineroar is actually growing on me, and he's looking to be an extremely dope character.
Will I main him? Probably not.
He has a lot of traits that don't mesh with my play-style, but I'm definitely going to give him a whirl.
The only thing that kills me about his inclusion is that you know TPCI chose him over a ballot Pokémon.
And that kinda hurts.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Scizor was one of them given he wasn't in the past two iterations of Smash, but here he is as a more interactive Pokémon.
Or there could be a chance that a ballot Pokémon is going to be DLC, but that is still my sticking point with his inclusion. Not the character himself.
But either way, I think Incineroar is actually pretty damn cool and, now seeing him in action, I'm actually happy he's here.
Alright. Now that I have the time to make a case for a character, I feel that with the Fighters Pass and DLC OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED, we can truly now begin speculating for what and who should be in. I think that when we take DLC into consideration, it should be an absolute banger. We're not in the realm of Smash 4 anymore where all the rules were broken, we're in the realm of "Every rule has been broken before. Go all out." Which is why now, especially with series like Street Fighter and Virtua Fighter getting some love, I wanna make the case for Bandai Namco's very own Tekken. And a specific character.
People of the board, I present to you...
The Case of Tekken's Heihachi Mishima Joining the Smash Ultimate Roster
Here are a few points I like to present to show why Heihachi would be fit for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
Tekken's Legacy and Current Status
Over time, Tekken has become one of the "giants", when it comes to the fighting game genre. Yes, you have your 2D-fighters like Street Fighter and King of Fighters, and then you have your 3D ones, like Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter. But Tekken stands on it's own two feet amongst these greats by making a compelling campaign that the fans love, with characters that have become a staple for not just the FGC, but gaming in general. There was a reason why Street Fighter X Tekken was made, after all. ...Even if it was a bit "meh", but STILL. For the most iconic fighting game franchise to collaborate with Tekken is a sight to behold.
What makes Tekken have the leg up, also, is that you may not know, but they have some pretty big Nintendo relevance, too. Firstly, Tekken Tag Tournament 2 was the franchises' first big jump onto a Nintendo platform. It was not bad and a pretty good game, definitely attracted some Tekken fans. Then came the big one - Pokken Tournament. Easily this has been a beloved game, a game that mixes Pokemon's fan favorite characters and Tekken's core gameplay? Who could pass that up? So far, it has been stated in Nintendo's reports that even the Switch release of Pokken Tournament, "Pokken Tournament DX" is in the top 20 most-sold Switch games, making it both sold a million on Switch and Wii U.
But what about now? Does it stand up still against these colossal fighters like Soul Calibur and Street Fighter? The answer is abso-****ing-lutely. The reactions to The Walking Dead's Negan and Final Fantasy XV's Noctis joining the battle should leave you with little explanation. Tekken 7 has become a blockbuster hit, and was released back in 2015. Easily enough time for Sakurai to fit him in as a DLC before the project plans have finalized. It even shows with the Mii Costume that he got, and especially with the short little video with him and Ryu back in Smash For. Whether it'd be because the Mishima Saga came to a bittersweet end or even the create-a-character, it's simple to see that Tekken has grown year-by-year, and definitely won't be leaving anytime soon.
Heihachi's Legacy as a Character
Whether you like it or not, especially when we have the likes of Jin Kazama in the mix, with the setting and build up over the years, Heihachi has been probably the most iconic character in Tekken, and it shows too, when they chosen him for who would be a Mii Costume to represent Tekken. He's most notably known as a bit of a "villainous"-type of character, which fits Smash Ultimate's motif of "Heroes VS. Rivals". To give a bit of his backstory:
Due to how well-written and impactful Heihachi has become as a character in the Tekken franchise, he has always been met with praise from fans and journalists, whether it be his moves or characterization. His popularity has led to him often to even be one of Sony's mascots, "as well as one of the best characters in fighting games". It's definitely shown in that regard when he was chosen into the roster for PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale. When you think of an iconic fighting game character, back then, you would only really say "Ryu", but now? Heihachi definitely is one of them.
Some Love for Bandai
This point is a bit of a simple one, but I think makes the sense, in the long term. Bandai Namco helped Sakurai and Nintendo to develop not only just Smash for 3DS and Wii U, but they also helped them develop Smash Ultimate. The roster currently has an ample amount of 3rd parties, but let's compare Bandai Namco to the rest and see why they should get another character.
Konami - 3 (Snake, Simon & Richter Belmont)
Sega - 2 (Sonic and Bayonetta)
Capcom - 3 (Mega Man, Ryu and Ken)
Square Enix - 2 (Cloud and a rumored character)
Bandai Namco - 1 (PAC-MAN)
As you can see, there are generally, if you don't count echo fighters, 2 characters for each character across the board for all the third parties, but yet only Namco has one. It'd make sense to round out all the companies and give Namco one more fighter. And who else would do fit better for Namco than Tekken?
Status in Smash
For Heihachi, Tekken so far represented in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate so far has been unconfirmed. We haven't seen him or Tekken in Spirits and World of Light, but as we've collectively confirmed where we have pretty much all the characters in the roster have different variations of Spirits, AND the Mewtwo + Lucas 3DS Trophy Situation, Spirits doesn't deconfirm a character, so we'll put that to the side. But when it comes to adding a new character, there seems to be two big patterns when it comes to either a past franchise or fighter getting in or not, and that's from being a Mii Costume or an Assist Trophy. While there have been a few ATs promoted to playable fighter status, like Isabelle and Little Mac, Mii Costumes seem to be the one people look towards the most, and with good reason. They're actually a part of the roster, but as a part of the Mii Fighters, to make you feel like you're playing as them. So first, let's take a look at the current Mii Costume status and see where Heihachi and some characters are at.
As you can see, for Heihachi being the sole rep for his franchise, no costume has been shown to be in Smash Ultimate, as of now. And if, by the off chance it does happen, it wouldn't necessarily deconfirm him, as we have Captain Falcon and Link outfits in Ultimate. But, with Smash Ultimate, there's a clear pattern of a BIG amount of costumes getting promoted to either a fighter or an AT. But what adds possible credence to Heihachi is that he is also not a part of the Assist Trophy roster, which you can see here with a full list of the 59 usable ATs.
Akira - Virtua Fighter
Alucard - Castlevania
Andross - Star Fox
Arcade Bunny - Nintendo Arcade
Ashley - WarioWare
Black Knight - Fire Emblem
Bomberman - Bomberman
Burrowing Snagret - Pikmin
Chain Chomp - Super Mario
Chef Kawasaki - Kirby
Color TV-Game 15 - It's literally ****ing Pong.
Devil - Devil World
Dillon - Dillon's Rolling Western
Dr. Kawashima - Brain Age (A.K.A. WII U TOP CHARTER BAYBEE!!)
Dr. Wright - SimCity
Flies & Hand - Mario Paint
Ghirahim - The Legend of Zelda
Ghosts - PAC-MAN
Gray Fox - Metal Gear Solid
Guile - Street Fighter
Hammer Bro - Super Mario
Isaac - Golden Sun (****ing R.I.P.)
Jeff - EarthBound
Kapp'n - Animal Crossing
Klaptrap - Donkey Kong
Knuckle Joe - Kirby
Knuckles - Sonic
Krystal - Star Fox
Lyn - Fire Emblem
Metroid - Metroid
Midna - The Legend of Zelda
The Moon - The Legend of Zelda
Mother Brain - Metroid
Nightmare - Kirby
Nikki - Swapnote (Actually R.I.P.)
nintendog - nintendogs
Phosphora - Kid Icarus
Rathalos - Monster Hunter
Riki - Xenoblade Chronicles
Rodin - Bayonetta
Sablé Prince - From Whom The Frog Bell Tolls
Samurai Goroh - F-Zero
Shadow - Sonic (R.I.P.)
Sheriff - What even is his game. "Sheriff"? Yeah, real original.
Shovel Knight - Shovel Knight
Skull Kid - The Legend of Zelda
Spring Man - ARMS
Squid Sisters (Callie & Marie) - Splatoon
Starfy - The Legendary Starfy
Starman - EarthBound
Sukapon - Sukapon
Takamaru - The Mysterious Murasame Castle
Tiki - Fire Emblem
Thwomp - Super Mario
Vince - Art Academy
Waluigi - Super Mario (Where he belongs.)
Dr. Wily - Mega Man
Yuri Kozukata - Fatal Frame
Zero - Mega Man
Yep. Heihachi is nowhere to be seen. With Akira's Virtua Fighter getting some love and a HUGE boost in representation for Street Fighter in Smash Ultimate - when we're talking about games that are a part of the fighting game genre - it seems as if Tekken has been conspicuously absent. No doubt that after the Mii Costume reveal, he had to have gotten a level of support for him to be in Smash, especially after Ryu. But how would he work, moveset-wise? Well, after being shown what Akira would look like if he was a playable character, I don't think him fitting on a 2D plane would be a problem, especially after Street Fighter X Tekken. I feel as if if you can look at some of Incineroar's and Ryu's moveset and combine that with the feeling of how Akira looks and plays and look at how Tekken plays as it's own respective game, I feel that a moveset for him wouldn't be THAT hard to make. Hell, look at Ken - he's was able to wiggle out some more creativity out of Ryu's moveset.
If I were to draw any conclusions is that with the timing of Tekken 7's release, the project plan for Smash Ultimate AND DLC project plans for Smash For and Ultimate, and with the points presented, it feels as if Tekken will not get the treatment that Virtua Fighter will get, but rather, I feel that Heihachi from Tekken will become a playable fighter.
Hey, I've never actually played a KH game. I don't really have any personnel connection to Sora, but I still find the presence of apparently unique, large, nobody dice in the background interesting, or at least confusing.
I mean both do. It's not like Sakurai would go to square and say "Give me Geno" and they'll be like "No you're getting Erdrick". Square enix could say no, but I can't imagine why they would since It's literally free money and they have nothing to lose because they don't even care about Geno. They can't exactly make Sakurai put in a different square rep for advertising instead since he's the one who decides the roster.
WWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYY! That stupid plant has nothing about him that sets him apart from Wario (You could just play Wario if you want the same experience)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the fact that you have pay 20 bucks for a crappy flower is just as horrendous as the micro transactions in Star War Battlefront II!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe I've been looking at this all wrong. Sakurai isn't a fan of Luxord he's just a fan of dice!
"Kingdom who? I like to gamble, it's a serious addiction, I lost everything to Miyamoto and now he forces me to work on Smash to pay him back, please understand"
Thought about it, this is what I think the roster would have looked like had the ballot been Japan only. would still be in (Inkling and Incineroar probably would have gotten in regardless of popularity), they might have been introduced in a different order, though (like, Chrom would replace Daisy as the E3 Echo reveal or something).
We don't get . but we do get Ashley. Instead of we get, let's say, Zack Fair.
We might have gotten , but might have been replaced with... Sephiroth and Erdrick...
Instead of , we get .
So, would that have been a better timeline? Or nah?
Incineroar is actually growing on me, and he's looking to be an extremely dope character.
Will I main him? Probably not.
He has a lot of traits that don't mesh with my play-style, but I'm definitely going to give him a whirl.
Tell me about it. I wasn't so sure about him, considering Verge's track record and the fan's previous scorn for ol' Bara Cat.
But now? He's the most expressive fighter in the entire game. That alone makes him a pocket for me.
Incineroar is actually growing on me, and he's looking to be an extremely dope character.
Will I main him? Probably not.
He has a lot of traits that don't mesh with my play-style, but I'm definitely going to give him a whirl.
The only thing that kills me about his inclusion is that you know TPCI chose him over a ballot Pokémon.
And that kinda hurts.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Scizor was one of them given he wasn't in the past two iterations of Smash, but here he is as a more interactive Pokémon.
Or there could be a chance that a ballot Pokémon is going to be DLC, but that is still my sticking point with his inclusion. Not the character himself.
But either way, I think Incineroar is actually pretty damn cool and, now seeing him in action, I'm actually happy he's here.
WWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYY! That stupid plant has nothing about him that sets him apart from Wario (You could just play Wario if you want the same experience)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the fact that you have pay 20 bucks for a crappy flower is just as horrendous as the micro transactions in Star War Battlefront II!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll get Shulk to fight Galleem to redeem himself.
"Back then, I couldn't save anyone... I saw it. I saw their fates and yet I couldn't do anything. I was powerless... just like that time. But not anymore! Today, I will change the future!"
Nintendo.. that's um... you really shouldn't have brought that design back. I thought we were forgetting that happened? I'm gonna have to second that yikes.
I mean both do. It's not like Sakurai would go to square and say "Give me Geno" and they'll be like "No you're getting Erdrick". Square enix could say no, but I can't imagine why they would since It's literally free money and they have nothing to lose because they don't even care about Geno. They can't exactly make Sakurai put in a different square rep for advertising instead since he's the one who decides the roster.
They can't make him put in another character, but you'd be a fool to think Sakurai wouldn't include a rep from the single most influential RPG of all time
