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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Johnknight1

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That was partly why I started doing the whole "I'll eat my shoe if that happens!". I didn't think the thing would happen, but I wanted to make it a fun thing, instead of "Your opinion is dumb and you should feel dumb." (And I had to eat my shoe which was fun). Even if it the thread doesn't have the same title, this IS the speculation thread, imo.
The best thing I ever did with Smash speculation was I bet $50 with someone in 2007 over whether Diddy Kong would be in Brawl.

I said yes and this fool adamantly said no because he was so sure and full of himself and his "vision" of Smash as the only right vision and only right way. And that vision did not include Diddy Kong.

He bragged about it everywhere on Smash Boards and GameFAQs about how he was gonna win the bet.

Then Diddy Kong was confirmed, and he disappeared from all of those accounts forever LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I actually Shadow Realm'd a man.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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This is something I haven't thought about before. Roy's game wasn't even released, but the series was already well established.
An ARMS character might not be as close to confirmed as we thought.
Roy was also a last minute addition who only got considered after Sakurai was finished with all other characters before looking for extra clones. He had really good timing.

If an ARMS character were to get in, it would be in a situation similar to Greninja where a slot was reserved for an ARMS character regardless Back when the roster was finalized

The best thing I ever did with Smash speculation was I bet $50 with someone in 2007 over whether Diddy Kong would be in Brawl.

I said yes and this fool adamantly said no because he was so sure and full of himself and his "vision" of Smash as the only right vision and only right way. And that vision did not include Diddy Kong.

He bragged about it everywhere on Smash Boards and GameFAQs about how he was gonna win the bet.

Then Diddy Kong was confirmed, and he disappeared from all of those accounts forever LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I actually Shadow Realm'd a man.
What was his reasoning for doubting Diddy Kong?

You know what character brings in hype, mass media attention and cash?
Sonic, Ryu, Pac-Man, Cloud

You know which characters don't?
Most of the newcomers we've gotten in Brawl and Smash 4. They only get a small population interested in the game.

I'll never forget in 2007 seeing Smash Bros being talked about on some prime time CNN program because Sonic was confirmed in the game. Old people who were born before video games were a thing were interested in it to talk about it as a daily news item.

Or waiting in line for Smash 4 and talking to one of the roughly 200 people in line who were hyped for Sonic specifically or got the game to play as Sonic or do Sonic vs. Mario or any number of Nintendo corporately owned characters.

No one will do that for Robin, Rex, Spring Man or any other small time character that is owned by a corporation named Nintendo.

That's not saying the latter doesn't belong in Smash, but that like... 3rd party characters as a gimmick to sell a title has been huge for fighting games forever.

It was huge in all the Capcom made Marvel titles, it was huge in all the Soulcalibur games that had them (hell, the 2 games with the most 3rd party characters are the best-selling ones [2 and 4]), and guess what?

It was probably the biggest in Brawl and Smash 4.

Smash 5 isn't going to change that trend no matter what you think or how many times you predict it will end. You'll just keep being wrong about 3rd party characters appearing.
So basically, what you are saying is that the only characters at this point that could be huge selling points for Smash Switch are third-party icons?
 

Starcutter

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I guess while we are on the subject, Waluigi? Not going to lie, I have a difficult time picturing him in anything other than Ridley purple.
I FINISHED WALUIGI



Most of them are self-explanitory but I should mention that I specifically tried to get the brown one to resemble Wrecking Crew.
If you could do Mimikyu, and/or Isabelle, that'd be amazing.
I wanted to do some for Isabelle earlier, but I had trouble finding a high enough resolution render to work with. Specifically, her in her spring/summer wear.
Those look really good, actually.

Krystal and/or Decidueye alts would be pretty cool to see.

What program or techniques do you use to make these, if I may ask? Been trying to learn.
Hm, maybe I'll do some for Decidueye eventually. I think I'm done for today though.

As for what I do, I use Photoshop's Magnetic Lasso to select specific sections I know I'll be changing, and saving them as separate selections I can refer to later. I then use the Hue/Saturation tool to get the colors to what I want them to be. The higher resolution the image is, the easier it is to alter the colors.
 

SuperSmashStephen

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Yeah man, just like... it's why I stopped posting mostly. People get too self serious. I got too self serious. I would rather devout a lot of my energy to getting good at games or playing any number of video games I own (way too many TBH) or reading or working.

And yeah, just like if they say you're wrong, I would just ignore the really negative ones. Like... if you're making a wishlist, do you, don't give a damn what anyone else wants. It's your opinions, you can want or not want whatever you want. But if you're making one that you want to be "accurate," consider listening to people who come across as intelligent and respectful, even if a few (okay A LOT) of them are really... "out there."

Because oftentimes "out there" can be right, especially with predictions.

I mean, just look at March Madness Men's NCAA Basketball brackets for proof of that! :laugh:
I’m really into speculation. Especially when it comes to newcomers. I try to remain very logic minded, and keep certain patterns, trends, and heresy from Sakurai and Nintendo in my brain when I’m thinking who may make the cut. I’m not trying to be 100% right, I’m trying to say who I think has the best chance in my opinion.

No one has to agree, but I’d like to discuss as civil as two people can as to why.
 
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Johnknight1

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What was his reasoning for doubting Diddy Kong?
"Too old" something something
"Doesn't fit in Smash" something something
Arrogance in thinking that only characters he wants will get and other characters won't get in (aka confirmation bias to an extreme)

All of which you commonly see around these parts, and you will always see until people are realistic with themselves and stop treating themselves like prophets trying to convert confused lots.

Like honestly stop and think. When was the last time someone said "I have no idea what's going to happen?"

Many people posting always have an opinion they are sure is (probably) right and won't stop saying it will be right. Not enough people here stop to doubt themselves or say "hey, I might be wrong" or "I am probably wrong" or "I am going out on a limb here"
So basically, what you are saying is that the only characters at this point that could be huge selling points for Smash Switch are third-party icons?
I mean Snake, Sonic and Cloud drew more interest for Smash Bros than any new character in Melee, Brawl or Smash 4 did.

Not saying Nintendo characters aren't draws but like... Nintendo has no mega draw characters left (sans Pokémon, because there's always mega popular Pokémon to add to Smash). The Inklings were the last real missing mega draws that make big money, and even they pale in comparison to the hype, reaction and global reaction Cloud got.

The final Smash Direct announcement got overshadowed by Cloud because he was that big of a star. I had to rewatch the end of the trailer 2 weeks later because I forgot when the final Smash Direct was gonna be because my Cloud hype was too real!!! :laugh:

Plus just stop and think about the numbers. With Nintendo-owned characters, we've had 60 confirmed in Smash IIRC. We've gone past the bottom of the 5th or 6th barrel down. The classic Mario 4, the Pokémon, DK, Link... those were the mega icons. The rest of the Nintendo characters aren't that big of deals to most.

With 3rd party characters who are stars of their huge mega franchises... we got DOZENS of those that aren't in Smash. Phoenix Wright is one of the most popular 3rd party characters ever, yet 2 characters from the company that owns him (Mega Man and Ryu) overshadowed the hell out of him.

If we got Phoenix Wright or Crash Bandicoot or Heihachi Mishima or Lara Croft or any number of 3rd or 4th party characters, they would be huge hits and draws to general audiences.

They aren't third wheels to large franchises like Isabelle in Animal Crossing or Dixie Kong in Donkey Kong. They aren't stars of series few have heard of like ARMS' with Spring Man or Chibi-Robo with Chibi-Robo... which is what we are all left with in regards to Smash characters (again, sans Pokémon, because holy moley that series is huge).
 
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Bowserlick

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Ridley, Dixie, K. Rool, Toad and Geno still have star power. People would lose their ****.
 
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Johnknight1

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I’m really into speculation. Especially when it comes to newcomers. I try to remain very logic minded, and keep certain patterns, trends, and heresy from Sakurai and Nintendo in my brain when I’m thinking who may make the cut. I’m not trying to be 100% right, I’m trying to say who I think has the best chance.
As long as you realize you are probably wrong on something, are polite and kind, open to suggestions from people, and are open that you can be wrong on anything, then really no one should ever be mad at you lol.

Most people will respect you if you do that, so no worries if you keep that up! ;)
 

True Blue Warrior

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I mean Snake, Sonic and Cloud drew more interest for Smash Bros than any new character in Melee, Brawl or Smash 4 did.

Not saying Nintendo characters aren't draws but like... Nintendo has no mega draw characters left (sans Pokémon, because there's always mega popular Pokémon to add to Smash). The Inklings were the last real missing mega draws that make big money, and even they pale in comparison to the hype, reaction and global reaction Cloud got.

The final Smash Direct announcement got overshadowed by Cloud because he was that big of a star. I had to rewatch the end of the trailer 2 weeks later because I forgot when the final Smash Direct was gonna be because my Cloud hype was too real!!! :laugh:

Plus just stop and think about the numbers. With Nintendo-owned characters, we've had 60 confirmed in Smash IIRC. We've gone past the bottom of the 5th or 6th barrel down. The classic Mario 4, the Pokémon, DK, Link... those were the mega icons. The rest of the Nintendo characters aren't that big of deals to most.

With 3rd party characters who are stars of their huge mega franchises... we got DOZENS of those that aren't in Smash. Phoenix Wright is one of the most popular 3rd party characters ever, yet 2 characters from the company that owns him (Mega Man and Ryu) overshadowed the hell out of him.

If we got Phoenix Wright or Crash Bandicoot or Heihachi Mishima or Lara Croft or any number of 3rd or 4th party characters, they would be huge hits and draws to general audiences.

They aren't third wheels to large franchises like Isabelle in Animal Crossing or Dixie Kong in Donkey Kong. They aren't stars of series few have heard of like ARMS' with Spring Man or Chibi-Robo with Chibi-Robo... which is what we are all left with in regards to Smash characters (again, sans Pokémon, because holy moley that series is huge).
I guess you're pretty much right. As far as Nintendo characters go, I guess the biggest hype makers left for the general Smash fan base (as in "the silent majority" of the fan base) would be the Nintendo characters who scored extremely well in the Smash Ballot. Outside of that (and I guess several Pokemon characters) you got characters like Rex and Spring Man that, whilst they would bring a significant amount of hype, are not anywhere near as big and beloved as the Inklings.
 
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ColietheGoalie

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Ridley, Dixie, K. Rool, Toad and Geno still have star power. People would lose their ****.
I don’t think the point he’s making is that they have no star power, but rather, not mind-blowing, game selling star power. Sonic/Cloud were big announcements, even outside the smash community. Geno would make a certain section of fans ecstatic, but outside of that no one would care.

Actually, it’s interesting thinking of Third-Party characters as “guests”. They come along, help give a game its crossover appeal, make a splash, then get swapped out for the next one. I could dig that :)
 
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Starcutter

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Oh yeah, I went to an IRL smash tournament the other day, and I was talking to someone about potential newcomers.

I mentioned Dixie Kong, he says he doesn't see that happening. He then says that Knuckles is likely since Nintendo bought Sonic the Hedgehog back in 2013.

:confused:
 

Johnknight1

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I guess you're pretty much right. As far as Nintendo characters go, I guess the biggest hype makers left for the general Smash fan base (as in "the silent majority" of the fan base) would be the Nintendo characters who scored extremely well in the Smash Ballot. Outside of that, you got characters like Rex and Spring Man that, whilst they would bring a significant amount of hype, are not anywhere near as big and beloved as the Inklings.
Pretty much.

Not that we can't have them or shouldn't have them.

Only that we should understand the scale of how popular all of these characters are to the MASSIVE video game market outside of small pockets of Nintendo franchises and IPs and their fanbases.

Like I would lose my crap for any Donkey Kong character, Ridley, etc, and I'm sure many people would too, but they aren't "huge deals." They're hardly anything next to Cloud and Sonic and Mario and Link lol, just like much of the Smash Bros cast.
 

SuperMii3D

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Speaking of purple, do you guys like Waluigi? Have a moveset I made.


WALUIGI SERVES UP A FIGHT
Normal Attacks:


Jab: A two strike move, where Waluigi takes his tennis racket and does two quick strikes. One from the left, one from the right. Each swing is punctuated with a "Waa."

Dash Attack: Waluigi lunges forward and dives at the opponent with arms outstretched, grabbing for their ankles. This move may cause the foe to trip, as Waluigi takes them to the ground with him, but it relies on good spacing so that Waluigi's arms line up with the foe's legs. A risky move, as it has notable end lag, but it's offset if the foe trips, as they'd need to get up before striking back.

Side Tilt: Waluigi does a soccer-style kick upwards, and pressing side tilt again causes his foot to come back down in an axe kick motion. The first hit is punctuated with a Waa.

Up Tilt: Waluigi points skyward and swings his hip, performing the Disco Finger move. Hitting this move again will have Waluigi withdraw his finger, which has an additional hit box. Up tilts can be chained together for a combo move as Waluigi dances.

Down Tilt: Waluigi crouches down and crosses his arms in front of his chest, extends one of his legs outward and spins while sitting on his other foot. There's a name for this dance move but I don't know what it is, but you bet your bottom dollar Waluigi knows what it is.


Aerial Attacks:


Neutral Air: Waluigi performs a split in mid air, launching foes that hit his feet completely horizontally, not unlike Jigglypuff's down smash (though obviously far less powerful...Waluigi can only cheat so much).

Forward Air: Waluigi uses his tennis racket and spikes the foe, sending them downward. There's a bit of a startup here as Waluigi aligns his shot, but otherwise it's a fairly standard forward air dunk.

Back Air: Waluigi swings his body around in a three strike maneuver. First he hits with a backhanded racket swing, then his right leg, and finally his left leg.

Up Air: Waluigi pulls a potted Piranha Plant out of hammer space and holds it upward. It chomps three times before Waluigi puts it away, with the third chomp inflicting higher knockback. A three strike move.

Down Air: Cheating physics once again, Waluigi stays right where he is in the air and stomps the "ground" twice, Waa-ing angrily and somehow kicking up a dust cloud. Can be used to stall Waluigi's fall.


Smash Attacks:


Side Smash: Waluigi takes a running start before smashing his racket into the foe, sending them flying. This is Waluigi's best kill move, showcasing his tennis prowess. The longer the move is charged, the further Waluigi runs before striking.

Up Smash: Waluigi pulls out what looks to be a baseball. He then tosses it skyward, not unlike Snake's up smash, where it's revealed the baseball is simply a crudely-painted bomb that Waluigi snuck into the battlefield. It explodes on impact. The charging animation involves Waluigi quietly laughing to himself as he tosses the ball lightly up in the air and catching it.

Down Smash: Waluigi pulls out a small yellow and black remote control with a big red button on it. Upon releasing the move, Waluigi pushes the button, causing the ground on either side of him to blow up. That's right, Waluigi is very thorough in his cheating. He planted remote bombs inside the stage just for this purpose. The charging animation features Waluigi taunting the foe, muttering "I'm gonna press it!" while hovering his finger over the button.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:


Grab and Pummel: A standard grab, with the pummel involving Waluigi bashing the foe overhead with his racket. Each pummel is punctuated with a Waa.

Forward Throw: Waluigi pulls a full sized cannon out of his pocket, stuffs the foe inside, and fires them away.

Back Throw: Waluigi twirls around and tosses the foe as one would a frisbee, waving at them as they go. "Bye bye, loser!"

Up Throw: Waluigi swims skyward, holding onto the foe, before lobbing them up.

Down Throw: Waluigi leaps onto the foe as both are covered in a cartoony fight cloud. Waluigi emerges victorious as the foe bounces off the ground.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: Rally/Zone Shot - If the button is pressed, Waluigi tosses a tennis ball up and whacks it with his racket, sending it hurdling forward. A rally then starts. The opponent is able to knock the ball back at Waluigi, but it returns to him slightly slower than how he launched it. Combined with his near lagless neutral special, Waluigi can send the ball back at blazing speed, and it gains a minor homing effect. This makes it easier for Waluigi to reflect it and harder for the foe to dodge it. Waluigi can hit the ball back at the foe twice (not including the initial serve), but on the third attempt, Waluigi's racket shatters as he stares at it in disbelief, leaving him susceptible for a counter as he pulls a new racket from hammerspace.

Side Special: Fake Item Box - Waluigi pulls out a fake item box from the Mario Kart series and lobs it overhead, letting it land on the stage. It stays there for about the length of one of Diddy Kong's banana peels before disappearing. If an opponent is hit by the box or runs into it while it's on the stage, they get stunned for a bit and take electrical damage, allowing Waluigi to come in for the kill. This move showcases Waluigi's trickery and deception.

Up Special: Air Swim - One of Waluigi's most iconic, and arguably strangest, abilities is his ability to cheat logic and physics themselves and swim through the air. It's an ability he's had since his debut in Mario Tennis, and it makes for the perfect recovery move in Smash. Waluigi propels himself in the direction the control stick is held, being able to perform upward to three strokes. In application, it's somewhat like Greninja's Hydro Pump or Pikachu's Quick Attack. It doesn't go as far, but it causes quite a bit of damage in comparison.

Down Special: Bomb Launcher - Waluigi pulls out a pitching machine and plants it on the stage, which he can then use as a turret of sorts. Pressing the button next to it has Waluigi yell "Fire!" and launch an explosive out of it. As well, while Waluigi is yelling "Fire!" the player can still control the bomb's trajectory mid-flight, referencing Waluigi's penchant for cheating, as well as things like the Liar Ball from the Mario Baseball series, where this sort of illusionist trickery isn't something Waluigi is above.


Final Smash: Whirluigi - Waluigi begins to dance as a spotlight shines on him. Eventually he begins to rapidly spin, putting him in the eye of a massive tornado. The player takes control of this tornado and can move it around the stage, picking up enemies, trapping them, and shooting them outward at the end of the move. Waluigi then stops spinning and strikes a pose.

Special Gimmick: Waluigi Time!
Waluigi's love of cheating is only beaten by Waluigi's love of himself. Boastful and quick to jeer his opponents, Waluigi is known for his flare for the dramatic. As such, Waluigi gets a small boost in power if he taunts after KO-ing an opponent, and a slightly larger boost if he does well enough to warrant a crowd cheer. A smaller gimmick that isn't as noticeable in the heat of battle, not unlike Bowser Jr.'s knockback resistance when hit from below, but it could help in a pinch and fits Waluigi's personality.


Side Taunt: Waluigi poses as he tosses a rose behind him. This actually does damage, as well, for every rose has its thorns.
Up Taunt: Waluigi tosses his head back and raises his arms as he laughs maniacally.
Down Taunt: Waluigi performs his infamous crotch chop.
Awesome moveset, it shows the quality of a character's personality and how said personality can be used to make a unique moveset. Great work! You've inspired me to make a moveset for Daisy later.
 
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Big-Cat

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Let's take a step back. I was responding to your post where you mentioned that we should (and I'm paraphrasing) consider the rivalries and excitement these characters brought. My response was that, while that's all nice and good, there is a real tangible issue these characters have, which is financial (and legal). From your post you say you get that money is involved, but you are going on about the same kind of things. That these characters are important to Smash. That there would be a creator left if they are gone. That's more an emotional response to a real world issue.

Let's take a hypothetical example. Saw we don't add any new guest characters but we bring the old ones back. We'll ignore Bayo (as Nintendo shares the rights sortof) and Pac-Man (as we'll say Namco is making the game again). Even with that, you still need to license 4 characters from three companies. They will likely want payment for each of those as Nintendo is licensing out those characters. Again, this is before considering if we want to add a new one. One of the reason I said Smash 4 would not be ported is because of licensing. It makes a difference.

So it comes to this question: Is the money worth it to make some fans happy?

Any character getting cut is going to make fans upset. That is unavoidable. And when you have a roster as big as Smash's, you will likely have cuts. So saying something along the lines of cutting Sonic will make a few million people upset, you're missing the point. Any character that gets added to Smash is going to resonate with some people, and cutting them will make those people upset. For instance, I have a friend who was upset when Dr Mario is cut. A lot of people here were fine with it, but it was something my friend didn't like. That is a reality for any character.

But what are the benefits for Nintendo? You talked a lot about fans, but let's look at the company making the game. Do they get any added benefit? As I established earlier, not really. Adding Sonic a third time isn't going to make fans that excite. It's not going to get a lot of headlines and probably wont get trending (or not for long). Seeing something a second or third time isn't going to impress as much. Does it increase sales? Probably not. Smash 4 sold about 14 million between two titles but Brawl sold 13 million on its own. If you assume 50% of the Wii U version bought the 3DS version, its around 11-12 million. So at the very least, these characters don't increase sales. Will the cost of buying them be better than an alternative? Probably not. If Nintendo wants to generate a lot of excitement for the game, all they have to do is announce the big dumb purple dragon and watch everyone lose their ****. So do the benefits justify the cost. Probably not as they give no new advertising potential, they don't increase sales, and Nintendo's own characters will get the job done for less. So when you talk about returning characters, there is less benefit. Conversely, any cut is going to make people upset. If this cut also saves some cash, wouldn't that be a benefit?

And of course there is the issue that even if some come back, all of them wont. Nintendo will likely pick and choose which characters they'd want back and that may be based on other games coming out (maybe Mega Man could help advertise MM 11, but that means kicking Ryu off). Kind of like I said for the port: trying to bring them all back is a licensing nightmare.

So this has kind of gone on for a while, so let me wrap this up. How I see it, this seems like the heart is leading the brain. You can say they are important or people will be upset, but does that change the issue? Does that change the licensing and monetary issues. Again, this was all in response to you telling people to consider these things. Essentially, to consider emotions. But perhaps those folks already have, and they, like me, saw that the real world problems trump the feelings.
Do you know what opportunity costs are? Or even long term investments?
 

Danpal65

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Oh yeah, I went to an IRL smash tournament the other day, and I was talking to someone about potential newcomers.

I mentioned Dixie Kong, he says he doesn't see that happening. He then says that Knuckles is likely since Nintendo bought Sonic the Hedgehog back in 2013.

:confused:
Oof. I feel for you. It seems so surreal that someone can be into video games to the point they go to tournaments, but do not know the difference between Sega and Nintendo, especially since Sonic games are multiplatform. What a strange man... :dizzy:

I guess that does go to show that just because you play Smash, even semi-seriously, not everyone will be invested into the next game so much as to be aware of possible characters and what could make them more or less likely.
 
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Radical Bones

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I really need to work on my patience because I'm getting so antsy about Smash news. Even just get the website up with a couple of renders, that's all I need.

:(
 

Megadoomer

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Question how do you all feel about Rodin from Bayo being in?
I feel like Bayonetta's not particularly likely to get a second character as far as third party franchises go (better odds than Pac-Man, but Sonic, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, and Mega Man seem far more likely on the off chance that it happens), and besides, Rodin would be way too over-powered if his boss fights are any indication.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I feel like Bayonetta's not particularly likely to get a second character as far as third party franchises go (better odds than Pac-Man, but Sonic, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, and Mega Man seem far more likely on the off chance that it happens), and besides, Rodin would be way too over-powered if his boss fights are any indication.
It makes me wish we had Boss Battles back at this point. So many cool characters could join in for that alone. Sure, some are harder to become playable due to various reasons, but...
 

QuintonShark8714

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Guys, i have a question, Which of these veterans will be secret characters again?, they all had some questionable twist in the past, besides Mewtwo and Roy of course

Veterans that had some twist in the past:
:4luigi:
:4falcon:
:4ness:
:4jigglypuff:
:4marth:
:4ganondorf:
:4mewtwo:
:4feroy:
:4wario:
:4lucario:
:4tlink:
:4sonic: (or some 3rd Party character)
:4bowserjr:
 

SuperSmashStephen

Smash Ace
Joined
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As long as you realize you are probably wrong on something, are polite and kind, open to suggestions from people, and are open that you can be wrong on anything, then really no one should ever be mad at you lol.

Most people will respect you if you do that, so no worries if you keep that up! ;)
Oh, I fully except to be wrong about whatever roster I create. I know I will have hits and misses. For example, I want Mimikyu to be a newcomer so badly, but it probably ain't gonna happen. I have faith that Isabelle will make it, but even then, I'm not sure.

The roster I made had Hades and Wonder Red on it too. Even the Labo Robot. All characters I can honestly see making it, but how likely they are is a different story.
 

Danpal65

Smash Lord
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Guys, i have a question, Which of these veterans will be secret characters again?, they all had some questionable twist in the past, besides Mewtwo and Roy of course

Veterans that had some twist in the past:
:4luigi:
:4falcon:
:4ness:
:4jigglypuff:
:4marth:
:4ganondorf:
:4mewtwo:
:4feroy:
:4wario:
:4lucario:
:4tlink:
:4sonic: (or some 3rd Party character)
:4bowserjr:
Hmm. I reckon at least :4jigglypuff::4ganondorf::4mewtwo::4feroy: and :4bowserjr: should be unlock able characters. I think :4luigi::4falcon::4ness: and :4marth: should be on the base roster.
 

Big-Cat

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I feel like Bayonetta's not particularly likely to get a second character as far as third party franchises go (better odds than Pac-Man, but Sonic, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, and Mega Man seem far more likely on the off chance that it happens), and besides, Rodin would be way too over-powered if his boss fights are any indication.
Why would a character being overpowered in their game have an effect on their playability in Smash?
 

Wyoming

Connery, Sean
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I really need to work on my patience because I'm getting so antsy about Smash news. Even just get the website up with a couple of renders, that's all I need.

:(
Yeah the 3 month wait is gonna have us murder each other at this rate
 

-crump-

Smash Champion
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Oh yeah, I went to an IRL smash tournament the other day, and I was talking to someone about potential newcomers.

I mentioned Dixie Kong, he says he doesn't see that happening. He then says that Knuckles is likely since Nintendo bought Sonic the Hedgehog back in 2013.

:confused:
Ah, yes, the great Sonic Purchase of 2013. We all knew Nintendo couldn’t keep all that Wii U money they were raking in to themselves, but buying out the icon of their once-hated rival? What madmen.

This of course explains why Sonic Mania and Forces were Nintendo exclusives.

:troll:
 
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Danpal65

Smash Lord
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you forgot these 4
:4wario::4lucario::4tlink::4sonic:
Wasn't quite sure what to do with them actually. They could be either honestly, but I think at least Sonic should be on the base roster maybe?

Lucario is kind of a hard one for me because I do not have much of an opinion on him and honestly think he could potentially not come back in the game. If he were to come back though I think he would be the same as in Sm4sh, which I think he was unlockable? (completely unsure on that one)
 

QuintonShark8714

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Wasn't quite sure what to do with them actually. They could be either honestly, but I think at least Sonic should be on the base roster maybe?

Lucario is kind of a hard one for me because I do not have much of an opinion on him and honestly think he could potentially not come back in the game. If he were to come back though I think he would be the same as in Sm4sh, which I think he was unlockable? (completely unsure on that one)
Lucario was unlockable in Brawl FYI, same with Toon Link
 

kylexv

Smash Master
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Smash 4 having Wario as an unlockable character in both versions made predicting unlockable characters mean pretty much nothing. Along with this, you could play as Luigi, Marth, Lucario, and Toon Link from the start, who were historically always unlockable.

I'd rather just wait and see.
 
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Radical Bones

Soul King
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If any third party is getting a second rep it better be Sonic and it better be Tails AND Knuckles AND Eggman.

Please?
 

Johnknight1

Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
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Why would a character being overpowered in their game have an effect on their playability in Smash?
Literally every super overpowered character in a Smash game has returned in the sequel (the one exception being Ice Climbers in Brawl, but that was due to technical issues with the 3DS because that console is in many ways weaker than the N64).
 

TheLastJinjo

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All these characters should be unlockable in the next game.
:4luigi::4drmario::4sheik::4ganondorf::4tlink::4zss::4falcon::4ness::4metaknight::4falco::4jigglypuff::4lucario::4mewtwo::4feroy::4corrinf::4lucina::4gaw::4darkpit::4rob::4shulk::4ryu::4cloud::4bayonetta:
If there are two of one character, the other should be unlockable. And Meta Knight is cool, so he should be unlockable too.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Something realised, we aren't able to use what Nintendo had in the works at time of dev start (2016 we think) because Nintendo kept it's cards VERY close to it's chest at that time. It's entire E3 was Breath of the Wild (for WiiU) and Pokemon Sun & Moon (vanilla versions) and only at the very end did we see a new Mario game hinted at.

We've got Inkling and BotW Link confirmed sure but they both debuted via 2014's E3 so we're still uncertain.
 

Big-Cat

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Something realised, we aren't able to use what Nintendo had in the works at time of dev start (2016 we think) because Nintendo kept it's cards VERY close to it's chest at that time. It's entire E3 was Breath of the Wild (for WiiU) and Pokemon Sun & Moon (vanilla versions) and only at the very end did we see a new Mario game hinted at.

We've got Inkling and BotW Link confirmed sure but they both debuted via 2014's E3 so we're still uncertain.
I'm not following here. Are you talking about the time window the roster was decided?
 

Guybrush20X6

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I'm not following here. Are you talking about the time window the roster was decided?
Basically.

Mostly effects the chances of ARMS and Xenoblade 2 but I can't help at wonder when the majority of dev work was set out.

We got a Wooly World stage in WiiU sure but we also got a NSMBU stage instead of a 3D world one.
 

Big-Cat

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At most, it would mean that ARMS and Xenoblade 2 content would be DLC. Mind you that Greninja was decided when he was just concept art.
 

PLATINUM7

Star Platinum
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But those people requested Alph as his own character, not as a costume.
Not necessarily.

People can play Alph just because they like his design. They can have no connection to the character beyond playing him over Olimar.
 
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