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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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Morbi

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Welcome to the Smash community in a nutshell with clones. I hate how us fans are always complaining about stuff. I mean Sakurai deserves a break, considering he sacrificed his health and time for our enjoyment.
To be fair, the solution is pretty obvious, and I say this as someone that enjoys clone characters... Do not make them. Spend that negligible development time on some other aspect of the game or just start working on DLC. It is really not that difficult to comprehend. Beyond that, the inherent issue is that he applies different solutions to the same problem. Of course you are going to frustrate different groups of people when you do that. Pretty obvious stuff, but again, I know nothing about game development.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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My number 1 most wanted character is a custom robo rep. Do people think that has any chance of happening or does that one go in my "pipe dream that will never actually happen" folder along with The Black Knight from path of radiance and Joker from persona 5?
Ray is my #1 largest want as well, however his bet bet was Brawl, and then possibly Smash 4. Custom Robo is somehow more dead than Chibi Robo. It breaks my heart, but Custom Robo falls into the pipe-dream category.
 

Morbi

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Ray is my #1 largest want as well, however his bet bet was Brawl, and then possibly Smash 4. Custom Robo is somehow more dead than Chibi Robo. It breaks my heart, but Custom Robo falls into the pipe-dream category.
To be realistic, he never really had a chance in Brawl either. Some characters are just not playable material. But, you never know, with the state of things, currently, he might be a viable option for Smash 6 unless Nintendo actually starts diversifying how they handle characters and develop more games without Mario or "Nobody Knows What the **** This Is" in their titles.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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To be realistic, he never really had a chance in Brawl either. Some characters are just not playable material. But, you never know, with the state of things, currently, he might be a viable option for Smash 6 unless Nintendo actually starts diversifying how they handle characters and develop more games without Mario or "Nobody Knows What the **** This Is" in their titles.
I mean you don't make the decision on who is "playable marerial". Custom Robo's issues seem to stem from poor/nonexistent marketing. Nobody had the chance to know the game existed, but I've never heard anyone say they didn't like the game if they played it. I think if it was given a fair shot, or even that playable Smash Bros advertising, things could be a lot different for the franchise now.
 

Morbi

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I mean you don't make the decision on who is "playable marerial". Custom Robo's issues seem to stem from poor/nonexistent marketing. Nobody had the chance to know the game existed, but I've never heard anyone say they didn't like the game if they played it. I think if it was given a fair shot, or even that playable Smash Bros advertising, things could be a lot different for the franchise now.
I never stated that I did. It was an observation, if I thought he was not playable material, perhaps I would not have alluded to the possibility in the next game? Maybe you did not read my post? :troll:

He is at least vaguely relevant to Smash, I remember his trophy in Melee and he became an assist trophy; albeit, I do not remember which game. Just saying, that is more than most.
 

CrusherMania1592

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I mean you don't make the decision on who is "playable marerial". Custom Robo's issues seem to stem from poor/nonexistent marketing. Nobody had the chance to know the game existed, but I've never heard anyone say they didn't like the game if they played it. I think if it was given a fair shot, or even that playable Smash Bros advertising, things could be a lot different for the franchise now.
Let's talk about why Ridley isn't "playable material"

:troll:
 

Opossum

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Speaking of purple, do you guys like Waluigi? Have a moveset I made.


WALUIGI SERVES UP A FIGHT
Normal Attacks:


Jab: A two strike move, where Waluigi takes his tennis racket and does two quick strikes. One from the left, one from the right. Each swing is punctuated with a "Waa."

Dash Attack: Waluigi lunges forward and dives at the opponent with arms outstretched, grabbing for their ankles. This move may cause the foe to trip, as Waluigi takes them to the ground with him, but it relies on good spacing so that Waluigi's arms line up with the foe's legs. A risky move, as it has notable end lag, but it's offset if the foe trips, as they'd need to get up before striking back.

Side Tilt: Waluigi does a soccer-style kick upwards, and pressing side tilt again causes his foot to come back down in an axe kick motion. The first hit is punctuated with a Waa.

Up Tilt: Waluigi points skyward and swings his hip, performing the Disco Finger move. Hitting this move again will have Waluigi withdraw his finger, which has an additional hit box. Up tilts can be chained together for a combo move as Waluigi dances.

Down Tilt: Waluigi crouches down and crosses his arms in front of his chest, extends one of his legs outward and spins while sitting on his other foot. There's a name for this dance move but I don't know what it is, but you bet your bottom dollar Waluigi knows what it is.


Aerial Attacks:


Neutral Air: Waluigi performs a split in mid air, launching foes that hit his feet completely horizontally, not unlike Jigglypuff's down smash (though obviously far less powerful...Waluigi can only cheat so much).

Forward Air: Waluigi uses his tennis racket and spikes the foe, sending them downward. There's a bit of a startup here as Waluigi aligns his shot, but otherwise it's a fairly standard forward air dunk.

Back Air: Waluigi swings his body around in a three strike maneuver. First he hits with a backhanded racket swing, then his right leg, and finally his left leg.

Up Air: Waluigi pulls a potted Piranha Plant out of hammer space and holds it upward. It chomps three times before Waluigi puts it away, with the third chomp inflicting higher knockback. A three strike move.

Down Air: Cheating physics once again, Waluigi stays right where he is in the air and stomps the "ground" twice, Waa-ing angrily and somehow kicking up a dust cloud. Can be used to stall Waluigi's fall.


Smash Attacks:


Side Smash: Waluigi takes a running start before smashing his racket into the foe, sending them flying. This is Waluigi's best kill move, showcasing his tennis prowess. The longer the move is charged, the further Waluigi runs before striking.

Up Smash: Waluigi pulls out what looks to be a baseball. He then tosses it skyward, not unlike Snake's up smash, where it's revealed the baseball is simply a crudely-painted bomb that Waluigi snuck into the battlefield. It explodes on impact. The charging animation involves Waluigi quietly laughing to himself as he tosses the ball lightly up in the air and catching it.

Down Smash: Waluigi pulls out a small yellow and black remote control with a big red button on it. Upon releasing the move, Waluigi pushes the button, causing the ground on either side of him to blow up. That's right, Waluigi is very thorough in his cheating. He planted remote bombs inside the stage just for this purpose. The charging animation features Waluigi taunting the foe, muttering "I'm gonna press it!" while hovering his finger over the button.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:


Grab and Pummel: A standard grab, with the pummel involving Waluigi bashing the foe overhead with his racket. Each pummel is punctuated with a Waa.

Forward Throw: Waluigi pulls a full sized cannon out of his pocket, stuffs the foe inside, and fires them away.

Back Throw: Waluigi twirls around and tosses the foe as one would a frisbee, waving at them as they go. "Bye bye, loser!"

Up Throw: Waluigi swims skyward, holding onto the foe, before lobbing them up.

Down Throw: Waluigi leaps onto the foe as both are covered in a cartoony fight cloud. Waluigi emerges victorious as the foe bounces off the ground.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: Rally/Zone Shot - If the button is pressed, Waluigi tosses a tennis ball up and whacks it with his racket, sending it hurdling forward. A rally then starts. The opponent is able to knock the ball back at Waluigi, but it returns to him slightly slower than how he launched it. Combined with his near lagless neutral special, Waluigi can send the ball back at blazing speed, and it gains a minor homing effect. This makes it easier for Waluigi to reflect it and harder for the foe to dodge it. Waluigi can hit the ball back at the foe twice (not including the initial serve), but on the third attempt, Waluigi's racket shatters as he stares at it in disbelief, leaving him susceptible for a counter as he pulls a new racket from hammerspace.

Side Special: Fake Item Box - Waluigi pulls out a fake item box from the Mario Kart series and lobs it overhead, letting it land on the stage. It stays there for about the length of one of Diddy Kong's banana peels before disappearing. If an opponent is hit by the box or runs into it while it's on the stage, they get stunned for a bit and take electrical damage, allowing Waluigi to come in for the kill. This move showcases Waluigi's trickery and deception.

Up Special: Air Swim - One of Waluigi's most iconic, and arguably strangest, abilities is his ability to cheat logic and physics themselves and swim through the air. It's an ability he's had since his debut in Mario Tennis, and it makes for the perfect recovery move in Smash. Waluigi propels himself in the direction the control stick is held, being able to perform upward to three strokes. In application, it's somewhat like Greninja's Hydro Pump or Pikachu's Quick Attack. It doesn't go as far, but it causes quite a bit of damage in comparison.

Down Special: Bomb Launcher - Waluigi pulls out a pitching machine and plants it on the stage, which he can then use as a turret of sorts. Pressing the button next to it has Waluigi yell "Fire!" and launch an explosive out of it. As well, while Waluigi is yelling "Fire!" the player can still control the bomb's trajectory mid-flight, referencing Waluigi's penchant for cheating, as well as things like the Liar Ball from the Mario Baseball series, where this sort of illusionist trickery isn't something Waluigi is above.


Final Smash: Whirluigi - Waluigi begins to dance as a spotlight shines on him. Eventually he begins to rapidly spin, putting him in the eye of a massive tornado. The player takes control of this tornado and can move it around the stage, picking up enemies, trapping them, and shooting them outward at the end of the move. Waluigi then stops spinning and strikes a pose.

Special Gimmick: Waluigi Time!
Waluigi's love of cheating is only beaten by Waluigi's love of himself. Boastful and quick to jeer his opponents, Waluigi is known for his flare for the dramatic. As such, Waluigi gets a small boost in power if he taunts after KO-ing an opponent, and a slightly larger boost if he does well enough to warrant a crowd cheer. A smaller gimmick that isn't as noticeable in the heat of battle, not unlike Bowser Jr.'s knockback resistance when hit from below, but it could help in a pinch and fits Waluigi's personality.


Side Taunt: Waluigi poses as he tosses a rose behind him. This actually does damage, as well, for every rose has its thorns.
Up Taunt: Waluigi tosses his head back and raises his arms as he laughs maniacally.
Down Taunt: Waluigi performs his infamous crotch chop.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
If you all had to make a balance patch for Smash for Switch, what would you do? Who would you nerf and who would you buff?
Speaking of purple, do you guys like Waluigi? Have a moveset I made.


WALUIGI SERVES UP A FIGHT
Normal Attacks:


Jab: A two strike move, where Waluigi takes his tennis racket and does two quick strikes. One from the left, one from the right. Each swing is punctuated with a "Waa."

Dash Attack: Waluigi lunges forward and dives at the opponent with arms outstretched, grabbing for their ankles. This move may cause the foe to trip, as Waluigi takes them to the ground with him, but it relies on good spacing so that Waluigi's arms line up with the foe's legs. A risky move, as it has notable end lag, but it's offset if the foe trips, as they'd need to get up before striking back.

Side Tilt: Waluigi does a soccer-style kick upwards, and pressing side tilt again causes his foot to come back down in an axe kick motion. The first hit is punctuated with a Waa.

Up Tilt: Waluigi points skyward and swings his hip, performing the Disco Finger move. Hitting this move again will have Waluigi withdraw his finger, which has an additional hit box. Up tilts can be chained together for a combo move as Waluigi dances.

Down Tilt: Waluigi crouches down and crosses his arms in front of his chest, extends one of his legs outward and spins while sitting on his other foot. There's a name for this dance move but I don't know what it is, but you bet your bottom dollar Waluigi knows what it is.


Aerial Attacks:


Neutral Air: Waluigi performs a split in mid air, launching foes that hit his feet completely horizontally, not unlike Jigglypuff's down smash (though obviously far less powerful...Waluigi can only cheat so much).

Forward Air: Waluigi uses his tennis racket and spikes the foe, sending them downward. There's a bit of a startup here as Waluigi aligns his shot, but otherwise it's a fairly standard forward air dunk.

Back Air: Waluigi swings his body around in a three strike maneuver. First he hits with a backhanded racket swing, then his right leg, and finally his left leg.

Up Air: Waluigi pulls a potted Piranha Plant out of hammer space and holds it upward. It chomps three times before Waluigi puts it away, with the third chomp inflicting higher knockback. A three strike move.

Down Air: Cheating physics once again, Waluigi stays right where he is in the air and stomps the "ground" twice, Waa-ing angrily and somehow kicking up a dust cloud. Can be used to stall Waluigi's fall.


Smash Attacks:


Side Smash: Waluigi takes a running start before smashing his racket into the foe, sending them flying. This is Waluigi's best kill move, showcasing his tennis prowess. The longer the move is charged, the further Waluigi runs before striking.

Up Smash: Waluigi pulls out what looks to be a baseball. He then tosses it skyward, not unlike Snake's up smash, where it's revealed the baseball is simply a crudely-painted bomb that Waluigi snuck into the battlefield. It explodes on impact. The charging animation involves Waluigi quietly laughing to himself as he tosses the ball lightly up in the air and catching it.

Down Smash: Waluigi pulls out a small yellow and black remote control with a big red button on it. Upon releasing the move, Waluigi pushes the button, causing the ground on either side of him to blow up. That's right, Waluigi is very thorough in his cheating. He planted remote bombs inside the stage just for this purpose. The charging animation features Waluigi taunting the foe, muttering "I'm gonna press it!" while hovering his finger over the button.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:


Grab and Pummel: A standard grab, with the pummel involving Waluigi bashing the foe overhead with his racket. Each pummel is punctuated with a Waa.

Forward Throw: Waluigi pulls a full sized cannon out of his pocket, stuffs the foe inside, and fires them away.

Back Throw: Waluigi twirls around and tosses the foe as one would a frisbee, waving at them as they go. "Bye bye, loser!"

Up Throw: Waluigi swims skyward, holding onto the foe, before lobbing them up.

Down Throw: Waluigi leaps onto the foe as both are covered in a cartoony fight cloud. Waluigi emerges victorious as the foe bounces off the ground.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: Rally/Zone Shot - If the button is pressed, Waluigi tosses a tennis ball up and whacks it with his racket, sending it hurdling forward. A rally then starts. The opponent is able to knock the ball back at Waluigi, but it returns to him slightly slower than how he launched it. Combined with his near lagless neutral special, Waluigi can send the ball back at blazing speed, and it gains a minor homing effect. This makes it easier for Waluigi to reflect it and harder for the foe to dodge it. Waluigi can hit the ball back at the foe twice (not including the initial serve), but on the third attempt, Waluigi's racket shatters as he stares at it in disbelief, leaving him susceptible for a counter as he pulls a new racket from hammerspace.

Side Special: Fake Item Box - Waluigi pulls out a fake item box from the Mario Kart series and lobs it overhead, letting it land on the stage. It stays there for about the length of one of Diddy Kong's banana peels before disappearing. If an opponent is hit by the box or runs into it while it's on the stage, they get stunned for a bit and take electrical damage, allowing Waluigi to come in for the kill. This move showcases Waluigi's trickery and deception.

Up Special: Air Swim - One of Waluigi's most iconic, and arguably strangest, abilities is his ability to cheat logic and physics themselves and swim through the air. It's an ability he's had since his debut in Mario Tennis, and it makes for the perfect recovery move in Smash. Waluigi propels himself in the direction the control stick is held, being able to perform upward to three strokes. In application, it's somewhat like Greninja's Hydro Pump or Pikachu's Quick Attack. It doesn't go as far, but it causes quite a bit of damage in comparison.

Down Special: Bomb Launcher - Waluigi pulls out a pitching machine and plants it on the stage, which he can then use as a turret of sorts. Pressing the button next to it has Waluigi yell "Fire!" and launch an explosive out of it. As well, while Waluigi is yelling "Fire!" the player can still control the bomb's trajectory mid-flight, referencing Waluigi's penchant for cheating, as well as things like the Liar Ball from the Mario Baseball series, where this sort of illusionist trickery isn't something Waluigi is above.


Final Smash: Whirluigi - Waluigi begins to dance as a spotlight shines on him. Eventually he begins to rapidly spin, putting him in the eye of a massive tornado. The player takes control of this tornado and can move it around the stage, picking up enemies, trapping them, and shooting them outward at the end of the move. Waluigi then stops spinning and strikes a pose.

Special Gimmick: Waluigi Time!
Waluigi's love of cheating is only beaten by Waluigi's love of himself. Boastful and quick to jeer his opponents, Waluigi is known for his flare for the dramatic. As such, Waluigi gets a small boost in power if he taunts after KO-ing an opponent, and a slightly larger boost if he does well enough to warrant a crowd cheer. A smaller gimmick that isn't as noticeable in the heat of battle, not unlike Bowser Jr.'s knockback resistance when hit from below, but it could help in a pinch and fits Waluigi's personality.


Side Taunt: Waluigi poses as he tosses a rose behind him. This actually does damage, as well, for every rose has its thorns.
Up Taunt: Waluigi tosses his head back and raises his arms as he laughs maniacally.
Down Taunt: Waluigi performs his infamous crotch chop.
Waluigi Water-Bender is honestly the best move-set that one can make for Waluigi. :p
Best Waluigi move-set I have ever seen.
 

Morbi

Scavenger
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,168
Location
Speculation God, GOML
Speaking of purple, do you guys like Waluigi? Have a moveset I made.


WALUIGI SERVES UP A FIGHT
Normal Attacks:


Jab: A two strike move, where Waluigi takes his tennis racket and does two quick strikes. One from the left, one from the right. Each swing is punctuated with a "Waa."

Dash Attack: Waluigi lunges forward and dives at the opponent with arms outstretched, grabbing for their ankles. This move may cause the foe to trip, as Waluigi takes them to the ground with him, but it relies on good spacing so that Waluigi's arms line up with the foe's legs. A risky move, as it has notable end lag, but it's offset if the foe trips, as they'd need to get up before striking back.

Side Tilt: Waluigi does a soccer-style kick upwards, and pressing side tilt again causes his foot to come back down in an axe kick motion. The first hit is punctuated with a Waa.

Up Tilt: Waluigi points skyward and swings his hip, performing the Disco Finger move. Hitting this move again will have Waluigi withdraw his finger, which has an additional hit box. Up tilts can be chained together for a combo move as Waluigi dances.

Down Tilt: Waluigi crouches down and crosses his arms in front of his chest, extends one of his legs outward and spins while sitting on his other foot. There's a name for this dance move but I don't know what it is, but you bet your bottom dollar Waluigi knows what it is.


Aerial Attacks:


Neutral Air: Waluigi performs a split in mid air, launching foes that hit his feet completely horizontally, not unlike Jigglypuff's down smash (though obviously far less powerful...Waluigi can only cheat so much).

Forward Air: Waluigi uses his tennis racket and spikes the foe, sending them downward. There's a bit of a startup here as Waluigi aligns his shot, but otherwise it's a fairly standard forward air dunk.

Back Air: Waluigi swings his body around in a three strike maneuver. First he hits with a backhanded racket swing, then his right leg, and finally his left leg.

Up Air: Waluigi pulls a potted Piranha Plant out of hammer space and holds it upward. It chomps three times before Waluigi puts it away, with the third chomp inflicting higher knockback. A three strike move.

Down Air: Cheating physics once again, Waluigi stays right where he is in the air and stomps the "ground" twice, Waa-ing angrily and somehow kicking up a dust cloud. Can be used to stall Waluigi's fall.


Smash Attacks:


Side Smash: Waluigi takes a running start before smashing his racket into the foe, sending them flying. This is Waluigi's best kill move, showcasing his tennis prowess. The longer the move is charged, the further Waluigi runs before striking.

Up Smash: Waluigi pulls out what looks to be a baseball. He then tosses it skyward, not unlike Snake's up smash, where it's revealed the baseball is simply a crudely-painted bomb that Waluigi snuck into the battlefield. It explodes on impact. The charging animation involves Waluigi quietly laughing to himself as he tosses the ball lightly up in the air and catching it.

Down Smash: Waluigi pulls out a small yellow and black remote control with a big red button on it. Upon releasing the move, Waluigi pushes the button, causing the ground on either side of him to blow up. That's right, Waluigi is very thorough in his cheating. He planted remote bombs inside the stage just for this purpose. The charging animation features Waluigi taunting the foe, muttering "I'm gonna press it!" while hovering his finger over the button.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:


Grab and Pummel: A standard grab, with the pummel involving Waluigi bashing the foe overhead with his racket. Each pummel is punctuated with a Waa.

Forward Throw: Waluigi pulls a full sized cannon out of his pocket, stuffs the foe inside, and fires them away.

Back Throw: Waluigi twirls around and tosses the foe as one would a frisbee, waving at them as they go. "Bye bye, loser!"

Up Throw: Waluigi swims skyward, holding onto the foe, before lobbing them up.

Down Throw: Waluigi leaps onto the foe as both are covered in a cartoony fight cloud. Waluigi emerges victorious as the foe bounces off the ground.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: Rally/Zone Shot - If the button is pressed, Waluigi tosses a tennis ball up and whacks it with his racket, sending it hurdling forward. A rally then starts. The opponent is able to knock the ball back at Waluigi, but it returns to him slightly slower than how he launched it. Combined with his near lagless neutral special, Waluigi can send the ball back at blazing speed, and it gains a minor homing effect. This makes it easier for Waluigi to reflect it and harder for the foe to dodge it. Waluigi can hit the ball back at the foe twice (not including the initial serve), but on the third attempt, Waluigi's racket shatters as he stares at it in disbelief, leaving him susceptible for a counter as he pulls a new racket from hammerspace.

Side Special: Fake Item Box - Waluigi pulls out a fake item box from the Mario Kart series and lobs it overhead, letting it land on the stage. It stays there for about the length of one of Diddy Kong's banana peels before disappearing. If an opponent is hit by the box or runs into it while it's on the stage, they get stunned for a bit and take electrical damage, allowing Waluigi to come in for the kill. This move showcases Waluigi's trickery and deception.

Up Special: Air Swim - One of Waluigi's most iconic, and arguably strangest, abilities is his ability to cheat logic and physics themselves and swim through the air. It's an ability he's had since his debut in Mario Tennis, and it makes for the perfect recovery move in Smash. Waluigi propels himself in the direction the control stick is held, being able to perform upward to three strokes. In application, it's somewhat like Greninja's Hydro Pump or Pikachu's Quick Attack. It doesn't go as far, but it causes quite a bit of damage in comparison.

Down Special: Bomb Launcher - Waluigi pulls out a pitching machine and plants it on the stage, which he can then use as a turret of sorts. Pressing the button next to it has Waluigi yell "Fire!" and launch an explosive out of it. As well, while Waluigi is yelling "Fire!" the player can still control the bomb's trajectory mid-flight, referencing Waluigi's penchant for cheating, as well as things like the Liar Ball from the Mario Baseball series, where this sort of illusionist trickery isn't something Waluigi is above.


Final Smash: Whirluigi - Waluigi begins to dance as a spotlight shines on him. Eventually he begins to rapidly spin, putting him in the eye of a massive tornado. The player takes control of this tornado and can move it around the stage, picking up enemies, trapping them, and shooting them outward at the end of the move. Waluigi then stops spinning and strikes a pose.

Special Gimmick: Waluigi Time!
Waluigi's love of cheating is only beaten by Waluigi's love of himself. Boastful and quick to jeer his opponents, Waluigi is known for his flare for the dramatic. As such, Waluigi gets a small boost in power if he taunts after KO-ing an opponent, and a slightly larger boost if he does well enough to warrant a crowd cheer. A smaller gimmick that isn't as noticeable in the heat of battle, not unlike Bowser Jr.'s knockback resistance when hit from below, but it could help in a pinch and fits Waluigi's personality.


Side Taunt: Waluigi poses as he tosses a rose behind him. This actually does damage, as well, for every rose has its thorns.
Up Taunt: Waluigi tosses his head back and raises his arms as he laughs maniacally.
Down Taunt: Waluigi performs his infamous crotch chop.
Waluigi is number 1. I never thought the day would come where he is actually likely in Smash, so I am pretty excited. I do enjoy the idea of dance moves, I never really thought about that myself. I just figured he would do tons of sports stuff. But they could really take advantage of his lanky figure with dance moves. If he had the taunt passive, I would want a dance taunt as well, similar to Bayo. In general, I hope everyone gets a fourth taunt.
 

TheDukeofDorks

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
193
Special Gimmick: Waluigi Time!
Waluigi's love of cheating is only beaten by Waluigi's love of himself. Boastful and quick to jeer his opponents, Waluigi is known for his flare for the dramatic. As such, Waluigi gets a small boost in power if he taunts after KO-ing an opponent, and a slightly larger boost if he does well enough to warrant a crowd cheer. A smaller gimmick that isn't as noticeable in the heat of battle, not unlike Bowser Jr.'s knockback resistance when hit from below, but it could help in a pinch and fits Waluigi's personality.
This may just be the best idea I've ever seen on this forum.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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Speaking of purple, do you guys like Waluigi? Have a moveset I made.


WALUIGI SERVES UP A FIGHT
Normal Attacks:


Jab: A two strike move, where Waluigi takes his tennis racket and does two quick strikes. One from the left, one from the right. Each swing is punctuated with a "Waa."

Dash Attack: Waluigi lunges forward and dives at the opponent with arms outstretched, grabbing for their ankles. This move may cause the foe to trip, as Waluigi takes them to the ground with him, but it relies on good spacing so that Waluigi's arms line up with the foe's legs. A risky move, as it has notable end lag, but it's offset if the foe trips, as they'd need to get up before striking back.

Side Tilt: Waluigi does a soccer-style kick upwards, and pressing side tilt again causes his foot to come back down in an axe kick motion. The first hit is punctuated with a Waa.

Up Tilt: Waluigi points skyward and swings his hip, performing the Disco Finger move. Hitting this move again will have Waluigi withdraw his finger, which has an additional hit box. Up tilts can be chained together for a combo move as Waluigi dances.

Down Tilt: Waluigi crouches down and crosses his arms in front of his chest, extends one of his legs outward and spins while sitting on his other foot. There's a name for this dance move but I don't know what it is, but you bet your bottom dollar Waluigi knows what it is.


Aerial Attacks:


Neutral Air: Waluigi performs a split in mid air, launching foes that hit his feet completely horizontally, not unlike Jigglypuff's down smash (though obviously far less powerful...Waluigi can only cheat so much).

Forward Air: Waluigi uses his tennis racket and spikes the foe, sending them downward. There's a bit of a startup here as Waluigi aligns his shot, but otherwise it's a fairly standard forward air dunk.

Back Air: Waluigi swings his body around in a three strike maneuver. First he hits with a backhanded racket swing, then his right leg, and finally his left leg.

Up Air: Waluigi pulls a potted Piranha Plant out of hammer space and holds it upward. It chomps three times before Waluigi puts it away, with the third chomp inflicting higher knockback. A three strike move.

Down Air: Cheating physics once again, Waluigi stays right where he is in the air and stomps the "ground" twice, Waa-ing angrily and somehow kicking up a dust cloud. Can be used to stall Waluigi's fall.


Smash Attacks:


Side Smash: Waluigi takes a running start before smashing his racket into the foe, sending them flying. This is Waluigi's best kill move, showcasing his tennis prowess. The longer the move is charged, the further Waluigi runs before striking.

Up Smash: Waluigi pulls out what looks to be a baseball. He then tosses it skyward, not unlike Snake's up smash, where it's revealed the baseball is simply a crudely-painted bomb that Waluigi snuck into the battlefield. It explodes on impact. The charging animation involves Waluigi quietly laughing to himself as he tosses the ball lightly up in the air and catching it.

Down Smash: Waluigi pulls out a small yellow and black remote control with a big red button on it. Upon releasing the move, Waluigi pushes the button, causing the ground on either side of him to blow up. That's right, Waluigi is very thorough in his cheating. He planted remote bombs inside the stage just for this purpose. The charging animation features Waluigi taunting the foe, muttering "I'm gonna press it!" while hovering his finger over the button.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:


Grab and Pummel: A standard grab, with the pummel involving Waluigi bashing the foe overhead with his racket. Each pummel is punctuated with a Waa.

Forward Throw: Waluigi pulls a full sized cannon out of his pocket, stuffs the foe inside, and fires them away.

Back Throw: Waluigi twirls around and tosses the foe as one would a frisbee, waving at them as they go. "Bye bye, loser!"

Up Throw: Waluigi swims skyward, holding onto the foe, before lobbing them up.

Down Throw: Waluigi leaps onto the foe as both are covered in a cartoony fight cloud. Waluigi emerges victorious as the foe bounces off the ground.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: Rally/Zone Shot - If the button is pressed, Waluigi tosses a tennis ball up and whacks it with his racket, sending it hurdling forward. A rally then starts. The opponent is able to knock the ball back at Waluigi, but it returns to him slightly slower than how he launched it. Combined with his near lagless neutral special, Waluigi can send the ball back at blazing speed, and it gains a minor homing effect. This makes it easier for Waluigi to reflect it and harder for the foe to dodge it. Waluigi can hit the ball back at the foe twice (not including the initial serve), but on the third attempt, Waluigi's racket shatters as he stares at it in disbelief, leaving him susceptible for a counter as he pulls a new racket from hammerspace.

Side Special: Fake Item Box - Waluigi pulls out a fake item box from the Mario Kart series and lobs it overhead, letting it land on the stage. It stays there for about the length of one of Diddy Kong's banana peels before disappearing. If an opponent is hit by the box or runs into it while it's on the stage, they get stunned for a bit and take electrical damage, allowing Waluigi to come in for the kill. This move showcases Waluigi's trickery and deception.

Up Special: Air Swim - One of Waluigi's most iconic, and arguably strangest, abilities is his ability to cheat logic and physics themselves and swim through the air. It's an ability he's had since his debut in Mario Tennis, and it makes for the perfect recovery move in Smash. Waluigi propels himself in the direction the control stick is held, being able to perform upward to three strokes. In application, it's somewhat like Greninja's Hydro Pump or Pikachu's Quick Attack. It doesn't go as far, but it causes quite a bit of damage in comparison.

Down Special: Bomb Launcher - Waluigi pulls out a pitching machine and plants it on the stage, which he can then use as a turret of sorts. Pressing the button next to it has Waluigi yell "Fire!" and launch an explosive out of it. As well, while Waluigi is yelling "Fire!" the player can still control the bomb's trajectory mid-flight, referencing Waluigi's penchant for cheating, as well as things like the Liar Ball from the Mario Baseball series, where this sort of illusionist trickery isn't something Waluigi is above.


Final Smash: Whirluigi - Waluigi begins to dance as a spotlight shines on him. Eventually he begins to rapidly spin, putting him in the eye of a massive tornado. The player takes control of this tornado and can move it around the stage, picking up enemies, trapping them, and shooting them outward at the end of the move. Waluigi then stops spinning and strikes a pose.

Special Gimmick: Waluigi Time!
Waluigi's love of cheating is only beaten by Waluigi's love of himself. Boastful and quick to jeer his opponents, Waluigi is known for his flare for the dramatic. As such, Waluigi gets a small boost in power if he taunts after KO-ing an opponent, and a slightly larger boost if he does well enough to warrant a crowd cheer. A smaller gimmick that isn't as noticeable in the heat of battle, not unlike Bowser Jr.'s knockback resistance when hit from below, but it could help in a pinch and fits Waluigi's personality.


Side Taunt: Waluigi poses as he tosses a rose behind him. This actually does damage, as well, for every rose has its thorns.
Up Taunt: Waluigi tosses his head back and raises his arms as he laughs maniacally.
Down Taunt: Waluigi performs his infamous crotch chop.
This is an excellent moveset. I love this!
 

MamaLuigi123456

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Speaking of purple, do you guys like Waluigi? Have a moveset I made.


WALUIGI SERVES UP A FIGHT
Normal Attacks:


Jab: A two strike move, where Waluigi takes his tennis racket and does two quick strikes. One from the left, one from the right. Each swing is punctuated with a "Waa."

Dash Attack: Waluigi lunges forward and dives at the opponent with arms outstretched, grabbing for their ankles. This move may cause the foe to trip, as Waluigi takes them to the ground with him, but it relies on good spacing so that Waluigi's arms line up with the foe's legs. A risky move, as it has notable end lag, but it's offset if the foe trips, as they'd need to get up before striking back.

Side Tilt: Waluigi does a soccer-style kick upwards, and pressing side tilt again causes his foot to come back down in an axe kick motion. The first hit is punctuated with a Waa.

Up Tilt: Waluigi points skyward and swings his hip, performing the Disco Finger move. Hitting this move again will have Waluigi withdraw his finger, which has an additional hit box. Up tilts can be chained together for a combo move as Waluigi dances.

Down Tilt: Waluigi crouches down and crosses his arms in front of his chest, extends one of his legs outward and spins while sitting on his other foot. There's a name for this dance move but I don't know what it is, but you bet your bottom dollar Waluigi knows what it is.


Aerial Attacks:


Neutral Air: Waluigi performs a split in mid air, launching foes that hit his feet completely horizontally, not unlike Jigglypuff's down smash (though obviously far less powerful...Waluigi can only cheat so much).

Forward Air: Waluigi uses his tennis racket and spikes the foe, sending them downward. There's a bit of a startup here as Waluigi aligns his shot, but otherwise it's a fairly standard forward air dunk.

Back Air: Waluigi swings his body around in a three strike maneuver. First he hits with a backhanded racket swing, then his right leg, and finally his left leg.

Up Air: Waluigi pulls a potted Piranha Plant out of hammer space and holds it upward. It chomps three times before Waluigi puts it away, with the third chomp inflicting higher knockback. A three strike move.

Down Air: Cheating physics once again, Waluigi stays right where he is in the air and stomps the "ground" twice, Waa-ing angrily and somehow kicking up a dust cloud. Can be used to stall Waluigi's fall.


Smash Attacks:


Side Smash: Waluigi takes a running start before smashing his racket into the foe, sending them flying. This is Waluigi's best kill move, showcasing his tennis prowess. The longer the move is charged, the further Waluigi runs before striking.

Up Smash: Waluigi pulls out what looks to be a baseball. He then tosses it skyward, not unlike Snake's up smash, where it's revealed the baseball is simply a crudely-painted bomb that Waluigi snuck into the battlefield. It explodes on impact. The charging animation involves Waluigi quietly laughing to himself as he tosses the ball lightly up in the air and catching it.

Down Smash: Waluigi pulls out a small yellow and black remote control with a big red button on it. Upon releasing the move, Waluigi pushes the button, causing the ground on either side of him to blow up. That's right, Waluigi is very thorough in his cheating. He planted remote bombs inside the stage just for this purpose. The charging animation features Waluigi taunting the foe, muttering "I'm gonna press it!" while hovering his finger over the button.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:


Grab and Pummel: A standard grab, with the pummel involving Waluigi bashing the foe overhead with his racket. Each pummel is punctuated with a Waa.

Forward Throw: Waluigi pulls a full sized cannon out of his pocket, stuffs the foe inside, and fires them away.

Back Throw: Waluigi twirls around and tosses the foe as one would a frisbee, waving at them as they go. "Bye bye, loser!"

Up Throw: Waluigi swims skyward, holding onto the foe, before lobbing them up.

Down Throw: Waluigi leaps onto the foe as both are covered in a cartoony fight cloud. Waluigi emerges victorious as the foe bounces off the ground.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: Rally/Zone Shot - If the button is pressed, Waluigi tosses a tennis ball up and whacks it with his racket, sending it hurdling forward. A rally then starts. The opponent is able to knock the ball back at Waluigi, but it returns to him slightly slower than how he launched it. Combined with his near lagless neutral special, Waluigi can send the ball back at blazing speed, and it gains a minor homing effect. This makes it easier for Waluigi to reflect it and harder for the foe to dodge it. Waluigi can hit the ball back at the foe twice (not including the initial serve), but on the third attempt, Waluigi's racket shatters as he stares at it in disbelief, leaving him susceptible for a counter as he pulls a new racket from hammerspace.

Side Special: Fake Item Box - Waluigi pulls out a fake item box from the Mario Kart series and lobs it overhead, letting it land on the stage. It stays there for about the length of one of Diddy Kong's banana peels before disappearing. If an opponent is hit by the box or runs into it while it's on the stage, they get stunned for a bit and take electrical damage, allowing Waluigi to come in for the kill. This move showcases Waluigi's trickery and deception.

Up Special: Air Swim - One of Waluigi's most iconic, and arguably strangest, abilities is his ability to cheat logic and physics themselves and swim through the air. It's an ability he's had since his debut in Mario Tennis, and it makes for the perfect recovery move in Smash. Waluigi propels himself in the direction the control stick is held, being able to perform upward to three strokes. In application, it's somewhat like Greninja's Hydro Pump or Pikachu's Quick Attack. It doesn't go as far, but it causes quite a bit of damage in comparison.

Down Special: Bomb Launcher - Waluigi pulls out a pitching machine and plants it on the stage, which he can then use as a turret of sorts. Pressing the button next to it has Waluigi yell "Fire!" and launch an explosive out of it. As well, while Waluigi is yelling "Fire!" the player can still control the bomb's trajectory mid-flight, referencing Waluigi's penchant for cheating, as well as things like the Liar Ball from the Mario Baseball series, where this sort of illusionist trickery isn't something Waluigi is above.


Final Smash: Whirluigi - Waluigi begins to dance as a spotlight shines on him. Eventually he begins to rapidly spin, putting him in the eye of a massive tornado. The player takes control of this tornado and can move it around the stage, picking up enemies, trapping them, and shooting them outward at the end of the move. Waluigi then stops spinning and strikes a pose.

Special Gimmick: Waluigi Time!
Waluigi's love of cheating is only beaten by Waluigi's love of himself. Boastful and quick to jeer his opponents, Waluigi is known for his flare for the dramatic. As such, Waluigi gets a small boost in power if he taunts after KO-ing an opponent, and a slightly larger boost if he does well enough to warrant a crowd cheer. A smaller gimmick that isn't as noticeable in the heat of battle, not unlike Bowser Jr.'s knockback resistance when hit from below, but it could help in a pinch and fits Waluigi's personality.


Side Taunt: Waluigi poses as he tosses a rose behind him. This actually does damage, as well, for every rose has its thorns.
Up Taunt: Waluigi tosses his head back and raises his arms as he laughs maniacally.
Down Taunt: Waluigi performs his infamous crotch chop.
You, sir, win the moveset game.

Wrap it up everyone, show's over.
 

Opossum

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Y’all are making me want Waluigi as a newcomer.

Stop it.

I shall not be dashed upon the rocks by your siren song!!!
Here, have a weirdly relevant picture.

Brawl in the Family may or may not have been what made me realize how much I wanted Waluigi in Smash. :p
 

Chron

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I'd like to see some moveset ideas for Azura.
I've always wanted to see a character with a move that removes gravity for a second while keeping momentum, allowing for help with recoveries. I could see this being an aerial use for Sing.

Good results on the FE Fighter poll so far. (Vote if you haven't)
 
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Cosmic77

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Probably relatively close, but not quite as large, I am swooning over the whole rose-in-the-mouth thing he has going on in Tennis Aces.
He's actually done the rose thing a few times before. One of the older examples that comes to mind is Mario Party 8. Whenever he would get a Star, he'd pull out a rose and yell, "Waluigi, numbah one!!"

Hey, are there any characters anyone wants me to make alternate colors for?

I just did some for Bandana Waddle Dee and I thought it might be cool to make more.
Does it have to be a highly likely and realistic character who everyone unanimously agrees on?

If not, could you make some alts for Mipha? Always wondered what she would look like in different Zora colors.
 

Starcutter

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I guess while we are on the subject, Waluigi? Not going to lie, I have a difficult time picturing him in anything other than Ridley purple.
Hm, maybe I'll do this one, that is if I can find a high enough render.
Does it have to be a highly likely and realistic character who everyone unanimously agrees on?

If not, could you make some alts for Mipha? Always wondered what she would look like in different Zora colors.
It would probably have to be someone I like personally, as I'm the guy making them :p
 
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SmashChu

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Again, as a fan of the series, I think it's in the best interest of the series for them to come back. I understand there is money involved. That's not something I'm leaving out of it. Frankly, considering the characters they have in Wii U, if the price is within reason I think it's totally in their best interest to retain what they can.

I completely understand Nintendo does not own Cloud, Sonic, or anybody from the 3rd party side of things. Smash is, without a doubt a "Nintendo All-Star" game. That still doesn't make it the same thing as Soul Calibur. Whether we like it or not, 3rd parties will be a huge part of Smash...even if they aren't in Smash Switch. The hole (better yet, crater) their absence from the roster would leave would affect not only the all-star capacity of the game, but the gameplay available as well. It isn't something that can be easily replaced.

This may be a point of endless disagreement, but I simply believe the point of not getting a "new" 3rd party seems negligible when you consider what you get with the current cast. If you cut, in my opinion (so there's room for disagreement obviously), any of the 3rd parties and replace them with literally any given 3rd party character, it isn't the same and would detract from the overall quality of the roster. It doesn't matter if the character that we get instead of Cloud is new, because Cloud would always have a larger presence than them. Crash Bandicoot, while being a great option, wouldn't beat out Cloud from Final Fantasy VII. He's just that big of an acquisition for Smash.

I don't believe I'm looking at anything with any sort of glasses on, quite frankly. I'm optimistic, and there's nothing wrong with that. I may be wrong, and while that would be rather unfortunate for me, it is what it is. I'm sticking to my guns. I believe that in the best interest of the roster, the current 3rd party cast should stick around, and should be added to in the event of additional 3rd parties.

Also, because I missed it and don't feel like finding the proper spot to insert it, I hope you're being a bit sarcastic when you say, "...make a few fans happy and bring Sonic back."

A few? Seriously? I might agree if a few is there for a "few million", but I think you underestimate the value of a 3rd party on the roster.

It's a different story to take something like Sonic away from a game like Smash once it's been there.
Let's take a step back. I was responding to your post where you mentioned that we should (and I'm paraphrasing) consider the rivalries and excitement these characters brought. My response was that, while that's all nice and good, there is a real tangible issue these characters have, which is financial (and legal). From your post you say you get that money is involved, but you are going on about the same kind of things. That these characters are important to Smash. That there would be a creator left if they are gone. That's more an emotional response to a real world issue.

Let's take a hypothetical example. Saw we don't add any new guest characters but we bring the old ones back. We'll ignore Bayo (as Nintendo shares the rights sortof) and Pac-Man (as we'll say Namco is making the game again). Even with that, you still need to license 4 characters from three companies. They will likely want payment for each of those as Nintendo is licensing out those characters. Again, this is before considering if we want to add a new one. One of the reason I said Smash 4 would not be ported is because of licensing. It makes a difference.

So it comes to this question: Is the money worth it to make some fans happy?

Any character getting cut is going to make fans upset. That is unavoidable. And when you have a roster as big as Smash's, you will likely have cuts. So saying something along the lines of cutting Sonic will make a few million people upset, you're missing the point. Any character that gets added to Smash is going to resonate with some people, and cutting them will make those people upset. For instance, I have a friend who was upset when Dr Mario is cut. A lot of people here were fine with it, but it was something my friend didn't like. That is a reality for any character.

But what are the benefits for Nintendo? You talked a lot about fans, but let's look at the company making the game. Do they get any added benefit? As I established earlier, not really. Adding Sonic a third time isn't going to make fans that excite. It's not going to get a lot of headlines and probably wont get trending (or not for long). Seeing something a second or third time isn't going to impress as much. Does it increase sales? Probably not. Smash 4 sold about 14 million between two titles but Brawl sold 13 million on its own. If you assume 50% of the Wii U version bought the 3DS version, its around 11-12 million. So at the very least, these characters don't increase sales. Will the cost of buying them be better than an alternative? Probably not. If Nintendo wants to generate a lot of excitement for the game, all they have to do is announce the big dumb purple dragon and watch everyone lose their ****. So do the benefits justify the cost. Probably not as they give no new advertising potential, they don't increase sales, and Nintendo's own characters will get the job done for less. So when you talk about returning characters, there is less benefit. Conversely, any cut is going to make people upset. If this cut also saves some cash, wouldn't that be a benefit?

And of course there is the issue that even if some come back, all of them wont. Nintendo will likely pick and choose which characters they'd want back and that may be based on other games coming out (maybe Mega Man could help advertise MM 11, but that means kicking Ryu off). Kind of like I said for the port: trying to bring them all back is a licensing nightmare.

So this has kind of gone on for a while, so let me wrap this up. How I see it, this seems like the heart is leading the brain. You can say they are important or people will be upset, but does that change the issue? Does that change the licensing and monetary issues. Again, this was all in response to you telling people to consider these things. Essentially, to consider emotions. But perhaps those folks already have, and they, like me, saw that the real world problems trump the feelings.
 

Johnknight1

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But it's not like we haven't had this stupid conversation before.
Popped in to say this should be the tagline of every bad discussion now TBH.

Luckily drinking makes it more tolerable. Here's to good bourbon and tacos! :grin:
Y’all are making me want Waluigi as a newcomer.

Stop it.

I shall not be dashed upon the rocks by your siren song!!!
Eventually we all become too old and tired and nostalgic over Mario spin-offs to not want Waluigi.

Might as well just accept it TBH.

It's not the worse thing ever. The worst thing is when you run out of whiskey for these "debates" and you're locked in the middle of it.

Edit: Also why in the name of Passover are we talking about "real life" when we are talking about a video game, aka children's toy, about freaking lots of video games aka children's toys meeting so self seriously=??? This isn't any battleground.

Talking about characters like they are life and death is just... sad lol. Especially when said characters are inevitable, popular, and created more hype than really any other character, already proved you wrong in the past over and over and over and over and over and over and over (and about to be "over" again because we're getting more 3rd party characters than just the 7 we got after someone said we would never get any ever and then we wouldn't get them again and then we wouldn't get any more and then we wouldn't get them anymore, but by now you see the cycle I hope), and we all know they'll get a hugely positive reaction for returning.

Enthusiasm for a product creates cash. That applies to children's toys especially so, regardless of corporate branding or whatever nonsense is worshiped as a deity here by people not realizing they are talking about children's characters in a children's toy.

(which BTW, nothing wrong with liking children's toys! Just like... let's be honest what they are lol! This isn't some medical device that can save millions so many get lost in their beliefs we are talking about)
 
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Sigran101

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I really think this is make it or break it for Ridley. With a prominent role in Samus Returns and Prime 4 coming out (presumably including Ridley as most metroid games do) even though Sakurai changes his mind about characters if he doesn' put him in this time I don't think he'll ever get in without a change in director.
 

SuperSmashStephen

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Popped in to say this should be the tagline of every bad discussion now TBH.

Luckily drinking makes it more tolerable. Here's to good bourbon and tacos! :grin:

Eventually we all become too old and tired and nostalgic over Mario spin-offs to not want Waluigi.

Might as well just accept it TBH.

It's not the worse thing ever. The worst thing is when you run out of whiskey for these "debates" and you're locked in the middle of it.
God, reading through everything over the past few days has my mind racing. I made up a roster a week or so ago, and posted it, and now I feel like I need to redo it.
 

Johnknight1

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God, reading through everything over the past few days has my mind racing. I made up a roster a week or so ago, and posted it, and now I feel like I need to redo it.
Not telling you what to do (it kind of comes off that way; just giving advice because I've had so much unfun "speculating" or whatever this is!) but after doing this shtick since I was in elementary school in like 2001 (now in my mid-20's)...

...Don't take "speculation" so seriously. Relax, force yourself to have fun instead of being Mr. Serious face.

If you are right, GREAT! If not, oh well!

You don't suddenly get eaten by an army of Zergs or stomped to death by Goombas or slaughtered by Covenant!

Just laugh it off, maybe figure out why you were wrong, and try try again! But don't stop daring to be bold too!
 
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Cosmic77

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Let's take a step back. I was responding to your post where you mentioned that we should (and I'm paraphrasing) consider the rivalries and excitement these characters brought. My response was that, while that's all nice and good, there is a real tangible issue these characters have, which is financial (and legal). From your post you say you get that money is involved, but you are going on about the same kind of things. That these characters are important to Smash. That there would be a creator left if they are gone. That's more an emotional response to a real world issue.

Let's take a hypothetical example. Saw we don't add any new guest characters but we bring the old ones back. We'll ignore Bayo (as Nintendo shares the rights sortof) and Pac-Man (as we'll say Namco is making the game again). Even with that, you still need to license 4 characters from three companies. They will likely want payment for each of those as Nintendo is licensing out those characters. Again, this is before considering if we want to add a new one. One of the reason I said Smash 4 would not be ported is because of licensing. It makes a difference.

So it comes to this question: Is the money worth it to make some fans happy?

Any character getting cut is going to make fans upset. That is unavoidable. And when you have a roster as big as Smash's, you will likely have cuts. So saying something along the lines of cutting Sonic will make a few million people upset, you're missing the point. Any character that gets added to Smash is going to resonate with some people, and cutting them will make those people upset. For instance, I have a friend who was upset when Dr Mario is cut. A lot of people here were fine with it, but it was something my friend didn't like. That is a reality for any character.

But what are the benefits for Nintendo? You talked a lot about fans, but let's look at the company making the game. Do they get any added benefit? As I established earlier, not really. Adding Sonic a third time isn't going to make fans that excite. It's not going to get a lot of headlines and probably wont get trending (or not for long). Seeing something a second or third time isn't going to impress as much. Does it increase sales? Probably not. Smash 4 sold about 14 million between two titles but Brawl sold 13 million on its own. If you assume 50% of the Wii U version bought the 3DS version, its around 11-12 million. So at the very least, these characters don't increase sales. Will the cost of buying them be better than an alternative? Probably not. If Nintendo wants to generate a lot of excitement for the game, all they have to do is announce the big dumb purple dragon and watch everyone lose their ****. So do the benefits justify the cost. Probably not as they give no new advertising potential, they don't increase sales, and Nintendo's own characters will get the job done for less. So when you talk about returning characters, there is less benefit. Conversely, any cut is going to make people upset. If this cut also saves some cash, wouldn't that be a benefit?

And of course there is the issue that even if some come back, all of them wont. Nintendo will likely pick and choose which characters they'd want back and that may be based on other games coming out (maybe Mega Man could help advertise MM 11, but that means kicking Ryu off). Kind of like I said for the port: trying to bring them all back is a licensing nightmare.

So this has kind of gone on for a while, so let me wrap this up. How I see it, this seems like the heart is leading the brain. You can say they are important or people will be upset, but does that change the issue? Does that change the licensing and monetary issues. Again, this was all in response to you telling people to consider these things. Essentially, to consider emotions. But perhaps those folks already have, and they, like me, saw that the real world problems trump the feelings.
This is actually a really good point that not many people bring up. These third-party companies aren't going to pass up on the opportunity to make some money. If Nintendo is adding their character in Smash, they'll be expecting to get some cash in return. Add those third-parties up, and Nintendo might be losing more profit than they're willing to let go of.

In other words, a good relationship doesn't solidify a third-party character staying in Smash. Nintendo is going to need a few good reasons to pay for that character, and if they can't find enough pros to outweigh the cons, they might just cut that third-party character altogether and use whatever money they were paying for said character to add someone new.
 

True Blue Warrior

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This is actually a really good point that not many people bring up. These third-party companies aren't going to pass up on the opportunity to make some money. If Nintendo is adding their character in Smash, they'll be expecting to get some cash in return. Add those third-parties up, and Nintendo might be losing more profit than they're willing to let go of.

In other words, a good relationship doesn't solidify a third-party character staying in Smash. Nintendo is going to need a few good reasons to pay for that character, and if they can't find enough pros to outweigh the cons, they might just cut that third-party character altogether and use whatever money they were paying for said character to add someone new.
Well regardless, I'm pretty sure Sonic is coming back as Sakurai already felt he was important to re-negotiate for Smash 4.

Regardless, it's important to note that third-party characters almost never return to a sequel of a fighting game. Sonic is the first, and so far, the only known exception.
 

AlphaSSB

Bring Back Star Fox
Joined
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Hey, are there any characters anyone wants me to make alternate colors for?

I just did some for Bandana Waddle Dee and I thought it might be cool to make more.
Those look really good, actually.

Krystal and/or Decidueye alts would be pretty cool to see.

What program or techniques do you use to make these, if I may ask? Been trying to learn.
 

SuperSmashStephen

Smash Ace
Joined
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Not telling you what to do (it kind of comes off that way; just giving advice because I've had so much unfun "speculating" or whatever this is!) but after doing this shtick since I was in elementary school in like 2001 (now in my mid-20's)...

...Don't take "speculation" so seriously. Relax, force yourself to have fun instead of being Mr. Serious face.

If you are right, GREAT! If not, oh well!

You don't suddenly get eaten by an army of Zergs or stomped to death by Goombas or slaughtered by Covenant!

Just laugh it off, maybe figure out why you were wrong, and try try again! But don't stop daring to be bold too!
Oh, I agree. Some people get really serious about all of this. It's a video game. Calm down.

I have fun discussing and speculating. It makes it less fun though when you almost get decapitated for it though sometimes.

Mid 20's here too. I've been playing Smash since the 64 days.
 

Johnknight1

Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
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You know what character brings in hype, mass media attention and cash?
Sonic, Ryu, Pac-Man, Cloud

You know which characters don't?
Most of the newcomers we've gotten in Brawl and Smash 4. They only get a small population interested in the game.

I'll never forget in 2007 seeing Smash Bros being talked about on some prime time CNN program because Sonic was confirmed in the game. Old people who were born before video games were a thing were interested in it to talk about it as a daily news item.

Or waiting in line for Smash 4 and talking to one of the roughly 200 people in line who were hyped for Sonic specifically or got the game to play as Sonic or do Sonic vs. Mario or any number of Nintendo corporately owned characters.

No one will do that for Robin, Rex, Spring Man or any other small time character that is owned by a corporation named Nintendo.

That's not saying the latter doesn't belong in Smash, but that like... 3rd party characters as a gimmick to sell a title has been huge for fighting games forever.

It was huge in all the Capcom made Marvel titles, it was huge in all the Soulcalibur games that had them (hell, the 2 games with the most 3rd party characters are the best-selling ones [2 and 4]), and guess what?

It was probably the biggest in Brawl and Smash 4.

Smash 5 isn't going to change that trend no matter what you think or how many times you predict it will end. You'll just keep being wrong about 3rd party characters appearing.
 
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SlickWylde

Smash Champion
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TBH I'd prefer Waluigi over a lot of 3rd party and indie reps people are bringing forward, just because he's Nintendo, associated with Wario, and has been around a good amount of time!

P.S: If anyone is playing Sea Of Thieves, PM your XBox name, always looking for more crewmates (I'm 30 hours in and still loving it)
 

Johnknight1

Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
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Oh, I agree. Some people get really serious about all of this. It's a video game. Calm down.

I have fun discussing and speculating. It makes it less fun though when you almost get decapitated for it though sometimes.

Mid 20's here too. I've been playing Smash since the 64 days.
Yeah man, just like... it's why I stopped posting mostly. People get too self serious. I got too self serious. I would rather devout a lot of my energy to getting good at games or playing any number of video games I own (way too many TBH) or reading or working.

And yeah, just like if they say you're wrong, I would just ignore the really negative ones. Like... if you're making a wishlist, do you, don't give a damn what anyone else wants. It's your opinions, you can want or not want whatever you want. But if you're making one that you want to be "accurate," consider listening to people who come across as intelligent and respectful, even if a few (okay A LOT) of them are really... "out there."

Because oftentimes "out there" can be right, especially with predictions.

I mean, just look at March Madness Men's NCAA Basketball brackets for proof of that! :laugh:
 
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Chron

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SlickWylde

Smash Champion
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Yeah man, just like... it's why I stopped posting mostly. People get too self serious. I got too self serious. I would rather devout a lot of my energy to getting good at games or playing any number of video games I own (way too many TBH) or reading or working.

And yeah, just like if they say you're wrong, I would just ignore the really negative ones. Like... if you're making a wishlist, do you, don't give a damn what anyone else wants. It's your opinions, you can want or not want whatever you want. But if you're making one that you want to be "accurate," consider listening to people who come across as intelligent and respectful, even if a few (okay A LOT) of them are really... "out there."

Because oftentimes "out there" can be right, especially with predictions.

I mean, just look at March Madness Men's NCAA Basketball brackets for proof of that! :laugh:
That was partly why I started doing the whole "I'll eat my shoe if that happens!". I didn't think the thing would happen, but I wanted to make it a fun thing, instead of "Your opinion is dumb and you should feel dumb." (And I had to eat my shoe which was fun). Even if it the thread doesn't have the same title, this IS the speculation thread, imo.
 
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