Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Would love a Bowsers Castle stage, lots of different ways to go about it and represent each iteration, enemies and Bowser himself in parts.

Bowser needs a Sonic tier butt rock or metal remix of any theme in a castle stage imo

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Honestly I kinda feel bad about Alph. I didn't even really want him as his own character, but being the only unique non-Koopaling alt to not get upgraded is a bit of a bummer.

He should be promoted to a semi-clone newcomer. Alph being nothing more than a costume was pretty pointless as it added nothing of value.

 

[Cosmic77]

Honestly, no matter what Sakurai does with the clones, he loses.


He decides to change their movesets? Fans complain that he changed them.
He decides to make them alts? Fans complain that they deserve better.
He doesn't change their movesets? Fans complain that they're still clones.
He cuts them? Fans complain that he removed them.
He keeps them? Fans complain that they're still on the roster.


At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai has a suppressed fear of clone characters.

 

[PLATINUM7]

He should be promoted to a semi-clone newcomer. Alph being nothing more than a costume was pretty pointless as it added nothing of value.

It added Alph as a costume. It was of value to people who played Alph over Olimar.

 

[NintenRob]

This might sound weird. But I think as an alt for Olimar, Alph is more likely to return than if he had been made a clone like Lucina and Dark Pit.

Doesn't really make sense saying it, but clones generally get cut. Maybe because if they returned they would feel obligated to separate them more, something they wouldn't feel bothered to do. But I feel Alph has much more secure spot in Smash as an alternative for Olimar

Anyone else get what I'm saying?

 

[MistressRemilia]

I feel like the huge roster might be holding back the creators & fans of the series towards making Solo Modes, in that the size wouldn't allow for a diversified experience that's fresh. I've always thought the protagonists of each franchise, or the most important characters, could be thrown into a scenario where they'd fight various opponents interested in something that relates to the character's original franchise, only to end with a boss fight that originates from the character's franchise. As this may not be clear to some, allow me to exemplify the idea with Olimar/Alph:

Story Mode: Olimar has to retrieve missing parts of the Hocotate Ship. On his way, he will encounter Falcon, Samus & Fox, who have found engine parts for their own purposes and refuse to let them go. With these three battles done, we skip onto Alph's scenario, who's looking for fruits to survive: He will encounter Donkey Kong, Yoshi & Kirby, all refusing to let go of the food. The adventure ends with Alph & Olimar arriving at the same place where they find the Plasm Wraith, who has a giant fruit & Hocotate Ship part within itself. Boss fight ends, they retrieve what they were looking for, then credits.

 

[Cosmic77]

This might sound weird. But I think as an alt for Olimar, Alph is more likely to return than if he had been made a clone like Lucina and Dark Pit.

Doesn't really make sense saying it, but clones generally get cut. Maybe because if they returned they would feel obligated to separate them more, something they wouldn't feel bothered to do. But I feel Alph has much more secure spot in Smash as an alternative for Olimar

Anyone else get what I'm saying?

Since a model similar to the base character is pretty much all you need, costumes are way easier than clones. That being said, this is the first game to feature entirely different characters as costumes. While I can't think of any logical reason why Alph or the Koopalings would be removed, I also don't feel confident in saying they're guaranteed.

But yes, I think the costumes should realistically have a better chance of returning than the clones.

 

[PLATINUM7]

This might sound weird. But I think as an alt for Olimar, Alph is more likely to return than if he had been made a clone like Lucina and Dark Pit.

Doesn't really make sense saying it, but clones generally get cut. Maybe because if they returned they would feel obligated to separate them more, something they wouldn't feel bothered to do. But I feel Alph has much more secure spot in Smash as an alternative for Olimar

Anyone else get what I'm saying?

Yes.

He requires less work than the clones since he's just a model swap and nothing else gameplay wise. Clones do need some work, even if not as much as those with unique movesets. Even if you don't have enough time to add a clone you could still add a model. I also don't think an established clone would become an alt if time was lacking.

I know Dr. Mario was going to be an alt like Lucina and Dark Pit were as well but I think if Sakurai ran out of time, he would have just exlcuded Doc, rather than keep him an alt.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't know if this was brought up yet, but Nintendo recently trademarked a bunch of names for upcoming games, and one was "Wario Land".

Could we finally see the return of the series, along with Wario's shoulder bash move in Smash?

 

[Jak_spoon]

I just don’t understand the Ridley argument when this is exactly what I want

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tEbEnmA9b1M

Heck you could even shrink him a little bit more and I’d be fine with that. Is fans can do it why can’t sakurai?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I just don’t understand the Ridley argument when this is exactly what I want

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tEbEnmA9b1M

Heck you could even shrink him a little bit more and I’d be fine with that. Is fans can do it why can’t sakurai?

Honestly I agree considering the stage hazard Ridley was in a disservice to his character, the random Black/Meta Ridley transformation was never a thing, Ridley's behaviour is like that of a Smash character including how he needs to be knocked away and he acts like Samus in Other M, a victim of abuse who can't seem to think for themselves only caused by the players this time. Reminder that this is the same character who slaughters for fun and only joins non Space Pirate groups because of Phazon corruption

 

[Stratos]

About All-Star Mode, as you know in Super Smash Bros. Melee appeared one of the characters for battle, with the exception of Mr. Game & Watch that showed him last and was dealt with him together and his copies. In Super Smash Bros. Brawl faced the characters according to the franchises of the video games they came from and the sequence in which the video game was displayed. While in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U had to do with the chronology, depending on the year in which each character appeared. What will they do in Super Smash Bros. All-Star Mode for the Nintendo Switch? Is it about colors? Though this seems impossible to me.

 

[Kotor]

About All-Star Mode, as you know in Super Smash Bros. Melee appeared one of the characters for battle, with the exception of Mr. Game & Watch that showed him last and was dealt with him together and his copies. In Super Smash Bros. Brawl faced the characters according to the franchises of the video games they came from and the sequence in which the video game was displayed. While in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U had to do with the chronology, depending on the year in which each character appeared. What will they do in Super Smash Bros. All-Star Mode for the Nintendo Switch? Is it about colors? Though this seems impossible to me.

I'll take a repeat of Smash 4's chronological order method of All-Star Mode. The 3DS version of oldest to newest specifically.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm thinking, even if there's only a few newcomers, it's still gonna take ages to through Classic and All-Star mode to get those "complete X with all characters" challenges.

My idea is to have the difficulty slider also effect how many fights there are on Classic mode so you can blaze through on easy and for All-Star, give it different paths based on past games. So there'd be a 12 character endurance match with Smash 64's cast, a series of completely randomised 1 on 3 fights against what's there of Melee's crew, fights by series debut for Brawl's line-up... you get the idea.

And there'd only be a certain few challenges that require completing "absolute All-Star" mode

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Doesn't really make sense saying it, but clones generally get cut.

Except that was only true in Brawl. The only clone newcomer in Brawl remained whilst Lucas, Wolf, Squirtle and Ivysaur were cut.

The argument that clones are generally cut doesn't really work when that was a trend for only one game.

It added Alph as a costume. It was of value to people who played Alph over Olimar.

But those people requested Alph as his own character, not as a costume.

 

[DJ3DS]

I don't know if this was brought up yet, but Nintendo recently trademarked a bunch of names for upcoming games, and one was "Wario Land".

Could we finally see the return of the series, along with Wario's shoulder bash move in Smash?

The series? Maybe.

It having an impact on Smash when the series even returning is completely speculative? Incredibly optimistic to say the least.

 

[Cosmic77]

Except that was only true in Brawl. The only clone newcomer in Brawl remained whilst Lucas, Wolf, Squirtle and Ivysaur were cut.

The argument that clones are generally cut doesn't really work when that was a trend for only one game.

I think he was referring to just newcomer clones.

Since Brawl only had half as many clones added than Melee, it makes sense why fewer clones were cut. Even then, 2/3 of the Brawl newcomer clones got cut from Smash 4's base roster. Even if the pattern doesn't continue in this game, I definitely think clones were a lower priority back then.

The series? Maybe.

It having an impact on Smash when the series even returning is completely speculative? Incredibly optimistic to say the least.

It's probably waaaay too late for the game to influence Wario's moveset, but it's still a good sign regardless. Wario Land has been on a long hiatus, so any type of info we get, confirmed or not, makes me have hope for the series.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think he was referring to just newcomer clones.

Since Brawl only had half as many clones added than Melee, it makes sense why fewer clones were cut. Even then, 2/3 of the Brawl newcomer clones got cut from Smash 4's base roster. Even if the pattern doesn't continue in this game, I definitely think clones were a lower priority back then.

I was also referring to newcomer clones.

Also, Wolf and Lucas are in no way shape or form clones or semi-clones, especially Wolf. There is not argument made for trying to lump them in with the likes of and especially in order to rationalize a poor fan assumption that just isn't true anymore.

 

[Stratos]

I'll take a repeat of Smash 4's chronological order method of All-Star Mode. The 3DS version of oldest to newest specifically.

Yes, you are right.

 

[T-Hell]

I just don’t understand the Ridley argument when this is exactly what I want

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tEbEnmA9b1M

Heck you could even shrink him a little bit more and I’d be fine with that. Is fans can do it why can’t sakurai?

That is beautiful. I think it would need a little bit more balancing but that has potential. I think most Ridley fans would be more than ok with that size at this point.

 

[Curious Villager]

The only clones who where deliberately cut where Young Link and Pichu, and even then, the former could be argued to have received a redesign in the form of Toon Link, just like how the rest of the OoT cast where redesigned into the TP cast. Most of the other Melee clones where at least planned to be brought back but some of them just didn't make it due to time constraints, and presumably due to Sonic's unplanned inclusion messing some priorities up.

Then there is the "Frankenstein" that is Wolf who we don't really have any official word on or even any datamines on why he was cut. So the most we can do on him and why he didn't return is speculation.

 

[-crump-]

I’m one of those weirdos who hates alternate costumes that completely change the character. I know Olimar and Alph’s body type is similar, but to me it makes them feel less like part of the cast and more like generic movesets. Same goes for Bowser Jr and the Koopalings... I honestly prefer clones, even low effort ones like Pitoo and Lucina. I know that’s kind of a selfish thing though, so it’s whatever.

In other news, I spent two and a half hour last night on a Support Thread for Henry Fleming b/c he’s a dream pick of mine and I noticed he didn’t have one... aaaand it’s currently getting buried. Them’s the breaks, I guess

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't know if this was brought up yet, but Nintendo recently trademarked a bunch of names for upcoming games, and one was "Wario Land".

Could we finally see the return of the series, along with Wario's shoulder bash move in Smash?

I hope we finally get a new Wario Land game for the Switch... and hopefully we finally get a Wario Land stage in Smash. Kitchen Island is my most wanted Wario stage.

Oh, and a second Wario character for Smash would be really nice. I always wanted Overalls Wario as a separate character.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

holy gods are people actually arguing that is still a clone, at least any more than is a clone?

no

stop

just stop that

is about as much a clone as was, especially now. you really think you can play dorf even close to how you play cap? el oh el to the maximum levels of hilarity

you can actually argue that and play close enough to their bases to say 'yeah **** those xeroxes' but dorf's no clone, not anymore. ****, he wasn't even all that physical in 'dorf form until he showed up in brawl and started punching mother****ers into the sun 666% at a time. now he's all about that brutish strength so welp.

also this:

I hope we finally get a new Wario Land game for the Switch... and hopefully we finally get a Wario Land stage in Smash. Kitchen Island is my most wanted Wario stage.

Oh, and a second Wario character for Smash would be really nice. I always wanted Overalls Wario as a separate character.

is showin how ****ing dire the situation is with finding new blood for the ****ing game. we really gonna copy every o12 and give them a V2 moveset? if that's the case why do people dump on suggestions?

 

[Arcadenik]

is showin how ****ing dire the situation is with finding new blood for the ****ing game. we really gonna copy every o12 and give them a V2 moveset? if that's the case why do people dump on suggestions?

Huh? Who is saying we need to "copy every o12 and give them a V2 moveset"?

I just wanted a Wario with Wario Land moves.

Yeah, the Wario with WarioWare moves is nice but that wasn't what I expected when I supported Wario for Smash 3 (aka Brawl).

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

Huh? Who is saying we need to "copy every o12 and give them a V2 moveset"?

I just wanted a Wario with Wario Land moves.

Yeah, the Wario with WarioWare moves is nice but that wasn't what I expected when I supported Wario for Smash 3 (aka Brawl).

problem is that wario was known for warioware when his turn in smash came about. wario land was doa and unheard of since the virtual boy. outside of party and sports, warioware was the only reason he even had people looking his way, otherwise he was gonna get relegated to the trash heap of 3rd-tier mario characters alongside birdo, wart, and daisy (and i love birdo, just i realize they don't got **** for chances. still not gonna give it up tho).

like, hit me. what is the real difference between warioware wario and wario land wario, 'cause i've played both, viewed vids of both just to make sure i remembered right, and i aint seeing much of one.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Uuuuuuuuuhhhh guys?
Is there
a chance
of Nintendo
releasing
for us
a Super Smash Bros.
DEMO???
We did get one for the 3DS

 

[IronTed]

problem is that wario was known for warioware when his turn in smash came about. wario land was doa and unheard of since the virtual boy. outside of party and sports, warioware was the only reason he even had people looking his way, otherwise he was gonna get relegated to the trash heap of 3rd-tier mario characters alongside birdo, wart, and daisy (and i love birdo, just i realize they don't got **** for chances. still not gonna give it up tho).

like, hit me. what is the real difference between warioware wario and wario land wario, 'cause i've played both, viewed vids of both just to make sure i remembered right, and i aint seeing much of one.

Wario Land was doa? So did Master of disguise and Shake It! not exist during the Brawl era? I mean that is true now, but certainly not a decade ago.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

like, hit me. what is the real difference between warioware wario and wario land wario, 'cause i've played both, viewed vids of both just to make sure i remembered right, and i aint seeing much of one.

Well for one thing, Sakurai removed Wario's shoulder dash forward smash, which was the one reference to Wario Land he had.

Barring that, WarioWare Wario has odd physics such as fast midair speed, heavy weight, and high power, alongside some extremely unorthodox attacks, which are a good representation of the weirdness the games present. In addition, Wario's fast attack speed and quick animations, something especially noticeable in Brawl, seems to be based how fast microgames throughout the WarioWare series tend to go.

The Wario Land Wario I have in my mind would be fundamentally different. Slower air speed, more fluid animations, and more conventional attacks. I believe Project M's take on the matter is a good example. Wario Bike, first and foremost, would be replaced with his shoulder dash, and other attacks could also be interchangeable. Chomp could be him shaking a money bag, down smash could be his Earthshake Punch, Corkscrew could have him become one of his transformations in the Wario Land series, etc.

Wario was a strong adventurer and a cool side villain for the Mario series before WarioWare came along and made him a stupid joke character. Just my two cents on the matter.

Honestly, no matter what Sakurai does with the clones, he loses.


He decides to change their movesets? Fans complain that he changed them.
He decides to make them alts? Fans complain that they deserve better.
He doesn't change their movesets? Fans complain that they're still clones.
He cuts them? Fans complain that he removed them.
He keeps them? Fans complain that they're still on the roster.


At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai has a suppressed fear of clone characters.

Sakurai shouldn't worry about that anyway. It is literally impossible to please everyone, which is why he shouldn't try to.

 

[Pakky]

problem is that wario was known for warioware when his turn in smash came about. wario land was doa and unheard of since the virtual boy. outside of party and sports, warioware was the only reason he even had people looking his way, otherwise he was gonna get relegated to the trash heap of 3rd-tier mario characters alongside birdo, wart, and daisy (and i love birdo, just i realize they don't got **** for chances. still not gonna give it up tho).

like, hit me. what is the real difference between warioware wario and wario land wario, 'cause i've played both, viewed vids of both just to make sure i remembered right, and i aint seeing much of one.

Warioware Wario well doesn't have these

No shoulder dash

No power up references

No ground pound

No shaking strangle holds.

Also :

Master of Disguise (2007)

Wario Land 4 (2001)

Wario World (2003)

Wario Shake it (2008)

 

[Arcadenik]

like, hit me. what is the real difference between warioware wario and wario land wario, 'cause i've played both, viewed vids of both just to make sure i remembered right, and i aint seeing much of one.

The Wario from Wario Land games could have moves based on his different forms.

Puffy Wario could be multiple jumps (like Kirby and Jigglypuff)


Ball o' String Wario could be dash attack


Bull Wario could be Up Smash


Dragon Wario could be Neutral Special


Jet Wario could be Side Special


Vampire Bat Wario could be Up Special


Bouncy Wario could be Down Special


Vampire Wario could be Final Smash

 

[Pakky]

Ground pound

Inhaling which could be the bite move we have now but its a little different.

He can also pile drive in this game, don't think that's a grab in Smash.

Everything else with dates.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Uuuuuuuuuhhhh guys?
Is there
a chance
of Nintendo
releasing
for us
a Super Smash Bros.
DEMO???
We did get one for the 3DS

Nintendo have been doing these online test runs before release for games like Splatoon 2 and ARMS, I could see them doing something similar for Smash instead of a demo this time.

 

[Roberto zampari]

I hope that they introduce Over-1 and Vent / Aile in the Megaman's Final Smash.
Anyone agrees?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Will say Wario could benefit from an alternative moveset as he's got a heck of a lot of abilities that should be technically possible to do in 3-D these days which the Switch no longer having to read off game disks to load new models.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Uuuuuuuuuhhhh guys?
Is there
a chance
of Nintendo
releasing
for us
a Super Smash Bros.
DEMO???
We did get one for the 3DS

Probably. Look at Splatoon and ARMS.

 

[Polan]

I wouldn't mind Wario's fart move being changed but removing the bike and replacing it with a boring charge move....just no

 

[Inawordyes]

Hypothetical: All of the 3rd-parties don't come back, but their movesets do(including Snake's) and are tweaked and retooled as necessary and given to Nintendo characters instead. Which characters do their movesets go to?

Mine would be:

Spoiler

- Sami (Advance Wars) or Pico (F-Zero)
Of anybody "inheriting" Snake's moveset in some capacity, I've seen these two brought up the most. I give Sami the edge personally because I love her character, Advance Wars needs representation, and Project M turned me onto the idea of her having a toonified variant of Snake's moveset, but Pico's a good choice too and it would give F-Zero some more representation, especially if we never get Goroh or Black Shadow.

- Dillon (Dillon's Rolling Western)
This is the obvious choice and I doubt you could find a better character to match it.

- *shrug*
Metroid seems like the obvious choice but I can't think of anybody that'd fit.

- *shrug*
I got nothing.

- Blaziken (Pokémon)
This one was hard since Mario's basically already Ryu, but the only character I could actually think of that could conceivably "inherit" Ryu's moveset would be Blaziken.

- Impa (Zelda)
Specifically taking inspiration from her Hyrule Warriors incarnation. I can't think of a character that even uses a giant sword that isn't Ike or an inconsequential Fire Emblem side character, and I wouldn't be looking for the latter to show up over Impa who has way more relevance, importance to her main series, and also popularity.

- *shrug*
Not very many people - if any - that could conceivably fit, unless you went with someone like Pauline for the out-of-character lulz.

 

[Lyndis_]

Frankly if the clone trio had stayed alts, I think a lot of the din both sides create would've been mitigated, partly because we would've been none the wiser, and partly because the sycophancy towards roster decisions would've left people defending the choice like they do every other. It's not happening at this point, but it's an interesting hypothetical nonetheless.

No one seems all too shook up that Alph isn't unique.

Then there's me.. I'm still upset we never got Rock Pikmin Alph clone.

 

[Inawordyes]

Then there's me.. I'm still upset we never got Rock Pikmin Alph clone.

If they'd made Alph his own character, we could've gotten Louie and Brittany as alts for the both of them.

What could've been.