Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dyllybirdy]

(am I the only one who didn't want Ridley in?)

Uhhh, yup.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Just to remind you guys, Sakurai said that the DLC characters will not be Echoes. So whoever they end up being will be Semi-clones at worst. So when suggesting characters, you can actually want people like Impa or Tails or whomever without fear of them being an Echo. And as for the Dark Dr Mario suggestion; I dont doubt that he could do another strange character (though Piranha is likely the only one), but that'd be essentially a clone (like if they were to add Pink Gold Peach), so I wouldn't count on that one. Boo, maybe...Birdo is probably more likely as a Yoshi semi-clone in all honesty; more in its fighting style than its specials, though.

I have a feeling they won't even be semiclones. All of Smash 4's actual DLC newcomers were extremely unique. I expect the same here.

 

[Lyndis_]

It's like y'all got triggered by a joke or something. I knew the bait would work

You said something that wasn't accurate, then I asked what the pattern or theme was you baited me into questioning you? Okay? I thought you were trying to make a legitimate point.

Whatever you say. I genuinely don't know how to interpreted that as "triggered" though.

 

[Raxxel]

It's like y'all got triggered by a joke or something. I knew the bait would work

Sorry, I've seen people make arguments like yours before in this community, it's hard to differentiate.

 

[Jetsurge]

It’s literally the same as Mewtwo in Smash 4. Register the game to a service to get it for free once the DLC is ready, or buy it once it’s out later.

But Mewtwo was just a model. Piranha Plant is basically already finished except for probably balancing.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

It's like y'all got triggered by a joke or something. I knew the bait would work

How do you get a free pass on baiting people but when I do it I get an infraction?
Life is unfair.

 

[osby]

Ohhhh... hmmm.
(am I the only one who didn't want Ridley in?).

I didn't really wanted him but after months after his inclusion, I'm ok with it.

I somehow doubt people wanted characters to get cut. Especially since it could be their own characters they enjoy that doesn't really fit into that either.

...

Um...

 

[osby]

Double post, delete pls.

 

[Gentlepanda]

As far as DLC goes, here’s my thoughts

1. Sora - undeniably a money maker, he’s a hype SE rep with a new game on the horizon and would be an incentive to purchase the fighters pass

2. Lloyd - it baffles me how Bamco has helped make the past 2 games and only have one rep, still, he’s a hype inducing jrpg guy with a new game (though he may not be in it) coming to the switch

3. Elma - it’s guaranteed that 1-2 of these dlc will be first parties, and as far I know Shulk is the only sole rep for his series, and with Rex being reduced to a mii costume, her chances are as good as ever, especially when you factor in that the project plan was finished around the same time as base game.

4. Monster hunter/FE rep - a few days ago I would’ve said Shante but it seems that’s out the window now which sucks because she’d make a great fighter. Regardless I wanted to keep expectations low with this one, though a monster hunter character sounds pretty cool to me as well.

5. Banjo & Kazooie/Steve - imo a good note to end on, its implied and straight up leaked by verg that we’ll be getting a Microsoft rep. Personally I hope it’s B&K

(I didn’t include Geno because I feel as though Square would prioritize Sora over him as much as it pains me to say, and we should all know that they’re stingy with characters anyway so I don’t realistically see us getting more than one from them.)

I'm especially hopeful for Elma since it's clear there's currently no X music in the game, and each DLC pack is meant to bring 'several music tracks' along with it. It's entirely possible Sawano just wasn't willing to play ball, but I can dream, damnit.

 

[Deleted member]

Uhhh, yup.

I can't be. I CAN'T BE!
Also... I've given Piranha Plant some thought, and decided that it makes perfect sense. Whenever I thought about Mario enemies, even before yesterday, I always thought about Piranha Plants first. They're just a less generic design than Koopas or Goombas, plus they have 1000x the moveset potential, as we have seen.

 

[The DanMan051]

Corrin wasn't positively received by either sides. Casuals had no idea who the heck he was, and hardcore Smash fans were upset we got another FE character. Corrin was, in every sense of the word, promotional.

Literally the only reason why people are expecting another FE promotional character is because it's been done before (and with Corrin, it wasn't even Sakurai's idea. The staff really wanted him). Maybe Sakurai will prove me wrong, but I don't think we can assume a promotional Three Houses protag is guaranteed just because it happened in the last game.

If anything, the addition of Corrin lowered our chances of getting another FE rep through DLC.

*citation needed. There's no way to adequately measure this based on internet reactions (where the strongest ones are heavily amplified).

The fact Sakurai was initially against them just proves that he isn't the sole authority of the roster and that it isn't completely subject to his whims; either he was influenced by the potential for a fun moveset (what was stated in the interview) or, if you want to project a bit, forced to include them. Either way, I've said both in the previous post and others that I think a Gen VIII Pokemon is far more likely and that the DLC will probably be focused on 3rd parties anyways. I'm not saying that a 3H protag is likely, per se; just that until we reach the point that another 1st party Nintendo release with new characters to push shows up with a 2019 window, they're the most likely in my eyes after another Pokemon.

 

[MSmariosonic]

WRONG! The original Metal Gear Game (pre-Solid) was an NES games.

Ah yes

The port that got publicly disowned by Kojima

 

[Deleted member]

I didn't really wanted him but after months after his inclusion, I'm ok with it.

EXACT SAME HERE MY FRIEND.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Ohhhh... hmmm.
(am I the only one who didn't want Ridley in?)

I was originally kinda against him, But being able to basically play as a Xenomorph is starting to grow on me

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I can't be. I CAN'T BE!
Also... I've given Piranha Plant some thought, and decided that it makes perfect sense. Whenever I thought about Mario enemies, even before yesterday, I always thought about Piranha Plants first. They're just a less generic design than Koopas or Goombas, plus they have 1000x the moveset potential, as we have seen.

I was saying that in jest, because honestly, I didn't want him either...

 

[Nekoo]

How do you get a free pass on baiting people but when I do it I get an infraction?
Life is unfair.

Don't worry. I'm collecting infraction too in my InfractDex

Sorry, I've seen people make arguments like yours before in this community, it's hard to differentiate.

Some of those are legitimate complain and argument though. But it was mostly to see who would directly get trigerred and answer with a "UH AND SO WHAT?"

Just like the time I said that people not recognizing FFVII and thinking it was Wolf was a blasphemy. It worked well-

 

[ThatOneAnon]

*citation needed. There's no way to adequately measure this based on internet reactions (where the strongest ones are heavily amplified).

The fact Sakurai was initially against them just proves that he isn't the sole authority of the roster and that it isn't completely subject to his whims; either he was influenced by the potential for a fun moveset (what was stated in the interview) or, if you want to project a bit, forced to include them. Either way, I've said both in the previous post and others that I think a Gen VIII Pokemon is far more likely and that the DLC will probably be focused on 3rd parties anyways. I'm not saying that a 3H protag is likely, per se; just that until we reach the point that another 1st party Nintendo release with new characters to push shows up with a 2019 window, they're the most likely in my eyes after another Pokemon.

Have you ever heard the term “Occam’s Razor”? It means that when the answer is elusive, never rule out the obvious.
You’re right, there IS no way to tell what the overall reaction to any one Smash character is. Therefore, it’s better to assume the Internet reaction IS the overall reaction than assume it’s all a vocal minority.

 

[MyDude213]

I'm really confused is Rex deconfirmed for DLC or not?

In the Direct Sakurai said that his game came out after the selection of the fighter DLC so he wasn't going to appear. So they made a Mii Costume to compensate.

 

[Nekoo]

Have you ever heard the term “Occam’s Razor”? It means that when the answer is elusive, never rule out the obvious.

Not again.

Please no.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

In the Direct Sakurai said that his game came out after the selection of the fighter DLC so he wasn't going to appear. So they made a Mii Costume to compensate.

So... Elma's way more likely now?

 

[CrunchyCHEEZIT]

so was all that hype for k. rool and ridley just moot because the last direct wasn't the best thing in the world?

 

[Paperchampion23]

I want to see what actual changes Dark Samus and Richter have from Samus and Simon. Annoyed none of the treehouse people picked them.

So far we can see Daisy, Chrom, Ken (especially, he's basically a new character/semi-clone) overall have benefits/detractors from using over their counterparts. There has to be differences for these 2 as well.

 

[Opossum]

Call it hopeless optimism, but I do think Celica has a dark horse shot at DLC.

Springman and Rex were given the cold shoulder for the base game due to newness, and instead given meaningful secondary content with an Assist/Costume. If DLC characters truly are decided this early, the same may hold true for Three Houses, with Edelgard or Byleth getting the shaft.

But with Celica, from what we've seen, Shadows of Valentia doesn't have any meaningful content in the game thus far. All we've seen is a joint spirit of Young Alm and Young Celica, and even if you think spirits mean disconfirmations, that one is a simple variant like Male Wii Fit Trainer, Baby Mario, and Kaptain K. Rool. Considering that Gaiden has gotten quite a bit of love from Smash in past games, it's weird to see almost nothing from its remake...especially when two more Fire Emblem Assists were added and neither were from Gaiden or Shadows of Valentia.

But furthermore, Celica over Edelgard or Byleth would also prevent a Corrin situation of being purely promotional. Gaiden released in 1992, and Shadows of Valentia released in 2017. She acts as both a classic character and a newer character in this regard, giving her a broader range of appeal than a purely promotional fighter. As well, unlike a promotional fighter, Celica herself has proven to be incredibly popular among Fire Emblem fans, with her being one of the winners of the second Choose Your Legends poll, which would have likely been relevant when the season pass characters were decided on. Add in a unique skillset from her game's own quirks and a moveset that writes itself, as well as so many potential stage and music options to come alongside her, and you have a compelling character choice.

All in all, while she doesn't have the best odds, I absolutely do think she's a choice people are sleeping on. The only thing that may crush her odds is the extent of SoV music in the base game. If there is a ton, she's likely not among the DLC.

 

[Raxxel]

Weren't people using Occam's Razor to justify the Grinch leak being real? Seems like it just doesn't apply to Smash speculation. Nintendo is too unpredictable for it.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Yeah I gotta say, no matter how disappointing any Smash character reveal will be, it’ll never beat the utter lack of excitement I had when Corrin was announced.
I’m so goddamn glad Bayo was announced right after. I’m certain I actually lost my voice from screaming in hype.

Weren't people using Occam's Razor to justify the Grinch leak being real? Seems like it just doesn't apply to Smash speculation. Nintendo is too unpredictable for it.

This is different. I’m not applying it to which characters will get in, but the overall reaction TO the characters that get in.

 

[blackghost]

well its that time. DLC time. In my head when they siad in the direct you get stage, music, AND character in the pack it eliminates some people's picks that i see routinely.
1. sepiroth. sakurai said dlc pick were made back in 2015 or 2016 for this game. Final fantasy 7 remake was announced in 2015 at E3. additionally sepiroth can easily be based on a skeleton of cloud in smash ultimate. character requires no introduction and outside of guiles theme has music that is uniquely tied to him. he is also the biggest video game villain left. one of his taunts would be saying "i will never be a memory." would also break internet. addionally final fantasy 7 is coming to switch

2. Lloyd Irving. this would be namco second rep and it comes from a highly scessful tales series and despite the years Lloyd is still a fan favorite. easier to create using skeletons or roy and/or marth. unique fighting style. (also yuri is possible as tale so vesperia is coming to switch as well)

3. Sora. not gonna even bother explaining this one.

4. Elma. xenoblade x released 2015. her moveset is easy to differentiate. as she was added into xenoblade 2 it is clear the devs aren't going to leave her on the side of the road. xenoblade has arrived the franchise has the music, locations, and characters that people would enjoy. only possible issue is how xenoblade already has a lot of music in the game. dont know what they would want to add with elma specifically

5. This last one is hard for me. originally I thought chunli or dante. but also possible nintendo will see to use this as a promotional slot. big games for Nintendo include pokemon, metroid prime 4, FE, bayonetta 3, dragon quest, and resident evil. i do expect at least one promotional character. if its a character as unique as corrin i wont care.

people need to be realistic with expectations. multiple people on the forum have already expressed caution or restraint and people refuse to listen. the dlc characters are not reviving dead series. thats what full game are for. dlcis for making money. nintendo is not concerned about whether the hardcore will buy the dlc but rather the causal players will. what they did with smash 4 was make the non-returning characters recognizable choices while simultaneously making the new smash 4 dlc characters the most advanced to properly use. dont be surprised to see that here as well.

 

[bountyhunta87]

The World of Light map seems oddly familiar...

Spoiler: World Map

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

so was all that hype for k. rool and ridley just moot because the last direct wasn't the best thing in the world?

If you ask me, Incineroar was more hype than Ridley and K. Rool combined

 

[Polar Bair]

I want to see what actual changes Dark Samus and Richter have from Samus and Simon. Annoyed none of the treehouse people picked them.

So far we can see Daisy, Chrom, Ken (especially, he's basically a new character/semi-clone) overall have benefits/detractors from using over their counterparts. There has to be differences for these 2 as well.

Dark Pit has set an unfortunately low bar for echo fighters. We still don't know where DSamus and Richter sit on that spectrum, but I kind of expect the Belmonts to be that close to identical.

If you ask me, Incineroar was more hype than Ridley and K. Rool combined

I think people have been acting too entitled lately but you went too far lmao

 

[The DanMan051]

Have you ever heard the term “Occam’s Razor”? It means that when the answer is elusive, never rule out the obvious.
You’re right, there IS no way to tell what the overall reaction to any one Smash character is. Therefore, it’s better to assume the Internet reaction IS the overall reaction than assume it’s all a vocal minority.

You mean the thing all the Grinch believers viciously cited to the point of cutting themselves on?

Sorry, but I'm going to trust my own instincts and deductions here; they've been pretty on-point so far.

By using "Occam's Razor", I can also claim that because of precedence (twice, in fact-- Roy and Corrin) that an FE character will be included for the purpose of marketing.

 

[CosmicQuark]

So... what are everyone's overall final thoughts on the base roster?
Here's mine

Looks fun and unique... 9/10
Her inclusion still surprises me 8/10
Happy for his fans, but meh... 5/10
By the power of Vampire Killer 9/10
"What is an echo? A fun little extra character" 9/10
You should have been in Smash 4 in the first place... 7/10
It's Samus... but dark... 6/10
Eh... Never really cared 3/10
Having played Villager in Smash 4, she looks like a fun twist on his play style 9/10

Easily looks like the most fun echo... 10/10

Oh, baby, a newcomer that actually calls to me. Definitely helps that Litten was my starter in Sun and Moon 10/10

Overall 8/10
Additions like Inkling, Incineroar, Isabelle, and the Belmonts look super fun, while most of the others are mixed...
Overall, pretty great...

As for Piranha Plant, He's a 9/10

I've debated whether I'd rank the characters, as my feelings on the newcomers has been... less than spectacular. Spoiled it, just know the negativity is only in response to my feelings on the characters, and I'm glad for the fans who like them. It's just this is the first Smash game where I haven't played any unique character, and now that we see how echoes have been done... not a fan of how they were handled.

Spoiler

Pretty expected, hasn't won me over (I don't play Splatoon) (5.0/10)
Probably the best echo, but I didn't like playing as Peach either (3.5/10)
Perfect choice for the fans, but looks weird/not a fan of the play style (4.5/10)
More interested in the stage than the character--whip is cool (5.5/10)
Same as the above, with the added dislike of echoes (2.0/10)
Not a fan of any FE character, so an echo won't change that (1.5/10)
I really feel with Ridley in this is overboard, but if the fans wanted them, I can't complain (1.0/10)
Probably the only newcomer I can see being interested in, but I'd have to play him first--trailer gave me Rare vibes (6.0/10)
Glad for the people who like her, but despite being unique with different animations/moves, still feels like Villager 2.0 (2.5/10)

Surprisingly the easiest echo is the most unique--still not interested in the character (3.0/10)

I really feel like a Pokemon for the sake of a Pokemon is a lame excuse, but happy for the fans (4.0/10)

Also, I didn't forget Piranha Plant, I just wanted to only include characters 1.0 and above

Of course, these are my initial impressions. I'll hopefully like them in the game. But my worries after Smash 4 was right--in terms of newcomers, not many characters could top Mega Man and Pac Man in terms of hype. Thankfully, everyone is back made up for newcomers that don't appeal to me.

 

[lightdrago]

Have you ever heard the term “Occam’s Razor”? It means that when the answer is elusive, never rule out the obvious.
You’re right, there IS no way to tell what the overall reaction to any one Smash character is. Therefore, it’s better to assume the Internet reaction IS the overall reaction than assume it’s all a vocal minority.

Occam’s Razor seemed pretty dull for the Grinch leak.

 

[Cosmic77]

so was all that hype for k. rool and ridley just moot because the last direct wasn't the best thing in the world?

People were just grieving over the leak being fake. As time goes on, I think people will get over it, accept what they got, and find other reasons to be excited for Ultimate.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

You mean the thing all the Grinch believers viciously cited to the point of cutting themselves on?

Sorry, but I'm going to trust my own instincts and deductions here; they've been pretty on-point so far.

By using "Occam's Razor", I can also claim that because of precedence (twice, in fact-- Roy and Corrin) that an FE character will be included for the purpose of marketing.

I hate repeating myself.

This is different. I’m not applying it to which characters will get in, but the overall reaction TO the characters that get in.

 

[Kuon]

So... what are everyone's overall final thoughts on the base roster?
And yes, Base... Not DLC
So no Piranha Plant
Here's mine

Looks fun and unique... 9/10
Her inclusion still surprises me 8/10
Happy for his fans, but meh... 5/10
By the power of Vampire Killer 9/10
"What is an echo? A fun little extra character" 9/10
You should have been in Smash 4 in the first place... 7/10
It's Samus... but dark... 6/10
Eh... Never really cared 3/10
Having played Villager in Smash 4, she looks like a fun twist on his play style 9/10

Easily looks like the most fun echo... 10/10

Oh, baby, a newcomer that actually calls to me. Definitely helps that Litten was my starter in Sun and Moon 10/10

Overall 8/10
Additions like Inkling, Incineroar, Isabelle, and the Belmonts look super fun, while most of the others are mixed...
Overall, pretty great...

As for Piranha Plant, He's a 9/10

I agree with pretty much all of these (aside from Incinaroar). Inkling, Isabelle, Daisy, and the Belmonts for me (especially Richter)
Edit: Also, Piranha Plant just looks so dumb that I love it

 

[Jetsurge]

If you ask me, Incineroar was more hype than Ridley and K. Rool combined

Not for me. Ridley's reveal put an end to a long-standing meme and King K. Rool's reveal was so satisfying after supporting him for years and getting knocked down during Smash 4.

 

[RodNutTakin]

so was all that hype for k. rool and ridley just moot because the last direct wasn't the best thing in the world?

Legit saw someone on /v/ say without a hint of doubt that "[This game] is the worst game of 2018"
I know it's /v/, but sometimes it feels like everyone there is strongly allergic to anything Nintendo.

 

[Lyndis_]

Legit saw someone on /v/ say without a hint of doubt that "[This game] is the worst game of 2018"
I know it's /v/, but sometimes it feels like everyone there is strongly allergic to anything Nintendo.

Nothing that comes from /v/ counts as something an actual human said.

At least, it's better for me to believe that. Keeps my hope in humanity.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, is everyone is still salty or has everyone regained their sanity?

I was more confused than anything else, really.

They're only doing one character pack though. It's only gonna be five characters

Right, I realise that. I'm just saying they could be anyone that's not out of the table entirely, or people that weren't speculated much on.

Nothing that comes from /v/ counts as something an actual human said.

At least, it's better for me to believe that. Keeps my hope in humanity.

Reminder that /m/ is a better place to talk about games on. That's not saying much, but pretty telling...

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

so was all that hype for k. rool and ridley just moot because the last direct wasn't the best thing in the world?

For those who got hyped with the idea of World of Light being a story mode, that's a source of devastation. Hopes built up, just to get pummeled.

That said though, acting like this direct has killed Smash Ultimate....yeah that's ridiculous.