Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Lyndis_]

You're forgetting someone.

and how could you forget him

Piranha Plant isn't part of the base roster.

I don't believe he's even intended to be in the game until at least February next year.

 

[Jetsurge]

Okay, say the following sentence out loud, since even months after E3, this still feels surreal to even comprehend:
Ridley is a playable character in Super Smash Bros.

So is King K. Rool! We got so lucky, he's the only popular ballot character who got in.

Spoiler:

And that makes him the true winner of the Smash Ballot!

 

[Nightguything]

As far as DLC goes, here’s my thoughts

1. Sora - undeniably a money maker, he’s a hype SE rep with a new game on the horizon and would be an incentive to purchase the fighters pass

2. Lloyd - it baffles me how Bamco has helped make the past 2 games and only have one rep, still, he’s a hype inducing jrpg guy with a new game (though he may not be in it) coming to the switch

3. Elma - it’s guaranteed that 1-2 of these dlc will be first parties, and as far I know Shulk is the only sole rep for his series, and with Rex being reduced to a mii costume, her chances are as good as ever, especially when you factor in that the project plan was finished around the same time as base game.

4. Monster hunter/FE rep - a few days ago I would’ve said Shante but it seems that’s out the window now which sucks because she’d make a great fighter. Regardless I wanted to keep expectations low with this one, though a monster hunter character sounds pretty cool to me as well.

5. Banjo & Kazooie/Steve - imo a good note to end on, its implied and straight up leaked by verg that we’ll be getting a Microsoft rep. Personally I hope it’s B&K

(I didn’t include Geno because I feel as though Square would prioritize Sora over him as much as it pains me to say, and we should all know that they’re stingy with characters anyway so I don’t realistically see us getting more than one from them.)

 

[osby]

Okay, say the following sentence out loud, since even months after E3, this still feels surreal to even comprehend:
Ridley is a playable character in Super Smash Bros.

People meme'd Ridley into the game. Also, I wonder if Piranha Plant got any votes during the ballot.

I remember a lot of people were saying "Sakurai would never do day 1 DLC" but isn't Piranha Plant technically that?

Not really, he's not on the disc afaik.

 

[Raxxel]

Goku is never happening. Smash is still about Nintendo and videogames related to its history.

 

[NineS]

He isn't part of the base roster.

he is to me.
look at him

how can you not count this thing? it's perfect in every way.

 

[Untouch]

Sakurai broke the rule of not having generic nameless characters in sm-
:ultincinceroar:

 

[Dyllybirdy]

People meme'd Ridley into the game. Also, I wonder if Piranha Plant got any votes during the ballot.

I bet at least someone voted for him, and I'm really happy for them now.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

SE doesn't own the whole FF7 OST.

then whoever the composer is said Nah, that would make more sense then

 

[Cosmic77]

The same fans who obsessively argued over a fuzzy picture of a banner mock-up nicknamed "The Grinch Leak"?

I think people need to realize that the "core fandom" doesn't really matter at all. The vast majority of people aren't going to give a damn/will find them to be cool; heck, the majority of people complaining about Corrin bought them regardless.

An 8th gen Pokemon is the most likely 1st party DLC character-- and after that, I'd say a 3 Houses protag. The DLC will probably be mostly 3rd party anyways.

Corrin wasn't positively received by either sides. Casuals had no idea who the heck he was, and hardcore Smash fans were upset we got another FE character. Corrin was, in every sense of the word, promotional.

Literally the only reason why people are expecting another FE promotional character is because it's been done before (and with Corrin, it wasn't even Sakurai's idea. The staff really wanted him). Maybe Sakurai will prove me wrong, but I don't think we can assume a promotional Three Houses protag is guaranteed just because it happened in the last game.

If anything, the addition of Corrin lowered our chances of getting another FE rep through DLC.

 

[Lyndis_]

I remember a lot of people were saying "Sakurai would never do day 1 DLC" but isn't Piranha Plant technically that?

No.

He won't be available or purchasable at launch, only after he's released for everyone will he be paid DLC, a few months after launch.

 

[LetterO]

I remember a lot of people were saying "Sakurai would never do day 1 DLC" but isn't Piranha Plant technically that?

It’s literally the same as Mewtwo in Smash 4. Register the game to a service to get it for free once the DLC is ready, or buy it once it’s out later.

 

[osby]

So is King K. Rool! We got so lucky, he's the only popular ballot character who got in.

Spoiler:

And that probably makes him the true winner of the Smash Ballot!

Fixed that for you. Also what the heck is a ballot character?

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Fixed that for you. Also what the heck is a ballot character?

Um, so Nintendo held a ballot sometime in 2015, where you could vote for a character you wanted to see as Smash 4 DLC (although, nobody high in the ballot, actually got Sm4sh DLC...)

King K. Rool, got quite a lot of votes in that ballot, which is why he's a "ballot character".

 

[Raxxel]

Fixed that for you. Also what the heck is a ballot character?

Are you aware of the Smash ballot? It was a survey Nintendo held for months where you could request a character. A lot of supporters of characters campaigned for people to vote for them. A character with a campaign is considered a ballot character as a result. K. Rool had arguably the biggest campaign of any character, so he is considered a ballot character.

 

[Blargg888]

I remember a lot of people were saying "Sakurai would never do day 1 DLC" but isn't Piranha Plant technically that?

No, because he’s not out on Day 1.

 

[Untouch]

SE doesn't own the whole FF7 OST.

Uematsu can be blamed for the music, but I don't think Nomura was that stingy when it came to the designs of the characters, there's not ONE final fantasy spirit or assist trophy.

 

[CrunchyCHEEZIT]

Fixed that for you. Also what the heck is a ballot character?

a miserable pile of fan requests

BUT ENOUGH TALK

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So... what are everyone's overall final thoughts on the base roster?
Here's mine

Looks fun and unique... 9/10
Her inclusion still surprises me 8/10
Happy for his fans, but meh... 5/10
By the power of Vampire Killer 9/10
"What is an echo? A fun little extra character" 9/10
You should have been in Smash 4 in the first place... 7/10
It's Samus... but dark... 6/10
Eh... Never really cared 3/10
Having played Villager in Smash 4, she looks like a fun twist on his play style 9/10

Easily looks like the most fun echo... 10/10

Oh, baby, a newcomer that actually calls to me. Definitely helps that Litten was my starter in Sun and Moon 10/10

Overall 8/10
Additions like Inkling, Incineroar, Isabelle, and the Belmonts look super fun, while most of the others are mixed...
Overall, pretty great...

: Going for main the most out of all the newcomers 10/10
: Gonna use more than Peach 8/10
: Murdering is fun 10/10
: Captain N reunion...that is all 9/10
: idgaf 6-7/10
: not Celica, Alm, or Lyn...6-7/10
: edgy 7/10
: Finest Hour with a bad*** GPG remix 100/10
: don’t want to hurt 7/10
: Shadow >, but I also expected him to join 7/10
:ultincinceroar:: Shadow > 6.9/10
: Going to want to play 8.9/10

 

[Nekoo]

"Cloud will never happens, he's a PlayStation Icons and never had his game on Nintendo" - smash community during Brawl speculation.

"Ridley is never getting in he's too big Sakurai said so" - Smash community every smash game pre-ultimate.

"The ESRB is fake guy!!!" - Most of Smash community during this meltdown

"K.rool and Wolf are a lock for DLC!" - smash community during the Ballot periods

"There no way we get a game with no cut" - Smash community before Ultimate reveal

"SAKURAI DIDN'T MEAN THAT WE WILL GET LESS REVEAL! JUST THST THEY WILL SLOW DOWN!!!" Smash community after Isabelle.

"The box Theory isn't true!!!" Smash Community after the reveal of the box

"Waluigi and Geno are totally getting in guys!!!" - Smash community before Piranha plant's reveal

"THE GRINCH LEAK IS TRUUUE!! **** THE INSIDERS" - Big part of the smash community during the Grinch leak


I feel like we got a pattern here boys.

 

[LetterO]

Corrin wasn't positively received by either sides. Casuals had no idea who the heck he was, and hardcore Smash fans were upset we got another FE character. Corrin was, in every sense of the word, promotional.

Literally the only reason why people are expecting another FE promotional character is because it's been done before (and with Corrin, it wasn't even Sakurai's idea. The staff really wanted him). Maybe Sakurai will prove me wrong, but I don't think we can assume a promotional Three Houses protag is guaranteed just because it happened in the last game.

If anything, the addition of Corrin lowered our chances of getting another FE rep through DLC.

I really hope we don’t get another FE character just for promotion. I think another game like Metroid Prime 4 getting promoted with Sylux would be cool, or a Gen 8 Pokemon.

 

[osby]

I was talking about why no newcomers except K.Rool doesn't count as one.

 

[Deleted member]

Cloud didn't break any rule if you ask me

The only games he had on Nintendo consoles were spinoffs. It seems to me like every other character has had at LEAST one mainseries game on a Nintendo console, so that means he broke a rule in my eyes.
Also, another rulebreaker: Sakurai said Ridley would never happen, but look where we are now.

 

[Porygon2]

(2) Spirits really shouldn't be considered a deconfirmation. We got trophies of Mewtwo and Lucas in Smash 4, yet both still made it on the roster. Spirits are even less than trophies, essentially being nothing more than existing artwork of a character.

This image of "Fighter Spirits" is also doing the rounds. Could just be custom spirits that are unique to certain fighters (like the Kaptain K. Rool one), or a confirmation that the fighters themselves have collectible spirits despite already being playable. I'd also be surprised if a piranha plant spirit doesn't exist in some capacity.

Personally I'd be happy if some spirits had a more permanent effect like unlocking alt costumes.

Spoiler: Rids

 

[NotLiquid]

It will certainly make playing against Sonic more tolerable.

I can definitely see it as an indirect buff to heavies. Not only do most of them look much more viable but with these changes rushdown characters seem overall weaker. It's also making me think Incineroar might actually be pretty good under these new mechanics because his mobility is garbagio, requiring opponents to approach him.

I can see why Larry speculated that the meta is going to move into a rock-paper-scissors meta where heavies beat rushdowns, rushdowns beat zoners, and zoners beat heavies.

 

[Untouch]

I remember a lot of people were saying "Sakurai would never do day 1 DLC" but isn't Piranha Plant technically that?

No, he's month 2 DLC.

 

[Autobot N]

So... what are everyone's overall final thoughts on the base roster?
Here's mine

Looks fun and unique... 9/10
Her inclusion still surprises me 8/10
Happy for his fans, but meh... 5/10
By the power of Vampire Killer 9/10
"What is an echo? A fun little extra character" 9/10
You should have been in Smash 4 in the first place... 7/10
It's Samus... but dark... 6/10
Eh... Never really cared 3/10
Having played Villager in Smash 4, she looks like a fun twist on his play style 9/10

Easily looks like the most fun echo... 10/10

Oh, baby, a newcomer that actually calls to me. Definitely helps that Litten was my starter in Sun and Moon 10/10

Overall 8/10
Additions like Inkling, Incineroar, Isabelle, and the Belmonts look super fun, while most of the others are mixed...
Overall, pretty great...

:ultincinceroar: My starter from Sun and Ultra Sun, and one of my favorite Pokemon designs. Plus, it helps that he's a wrestler and his automatic taunts are hilarious 10/10
Needs no explanation 10/10
Same as K.Rool 10/10
This is literally the coolest thing ever 10/10
I already liked Roy, and Chrom is objectively better (since he doesn't have the weird sword hitbox) and is from a game that I've actually played 8/10
Didn't really know much about him before he got revealed, but he looks dope 8/10
Don't really have an attachment to the character, but the moveset looks cool 7/10
Samus, but darker 6/10
Ryu, but with fire 6/10
Who? 5/10
Eh. Villager was okay, but not one of my favorites. The side b looks fun, though 4/10
boring 2/10

 

[Lyndis_]

"Cloud will never happens, he's a PlayStation Icons and never had his game on Nintendo" - smash community during Brawl speculation.

"Ridley is never getting in he's too big Sakurai said so" - Smash community every smash game pre-ultimate.

"The ESRB is fake guy!!!" - Most of Smash community during this meltdown

"K.rool and Wolf are a lock for DLC!" - smash community during the Ballot periods

"There no way we get a game with no cut" - Smash community before Ultimate reveal

"SAKURAI DIDN'T MEAN THAT WE WILL GET LESS REVEAL! JUST THST THEY WILL SLOW DOWN!!!" Smash community after Isabelle.

"The box Theory isn't true!!!" Smash Community after the reveal of the box

"Waluigi and Geno are totally getting in guys!!!" - Smash community before Piranha plant's reveal

"THE GRINCH LEAK IS TRUUUE!! **** THE INSIDERS" - Big part of the smash community during the Grinch leak


I feel like we got a pattern here boys.

What's the pattern? Things people in the Smash community have been wrong about? You could make an equally long list of things they were correct about.

The ESRB part isn't even true, it most defintiely wasn't most of the Smash community saying that.

I don't really even see a theme. A lot of these are people denying stuff will happen, but K. Rool and Wolf were just incorrect guesses and they don't really fit with the rest of the post... and it goes without saying a lot of the people saying one thing won't be all the same people saying another that ended up untrue.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

So what do you guys think the amiibo metagame is going to look like? What with the roll nerfing, the faster gameplay, the new characters and the gradual rollout of new amiibo.

 

[osby]

The only games he had on Nintendo consoles were spinoffs. It seems to me like every other character has had at LEAST one mainseries game on a Nintendo console, so that means he broke a rule in my eyes.
Also, another rulebreaker: Sakurai said Ridley would never happen, but look where we are now.

He never said "never". He said it would be pretty hard and he'd need to put his best efforts into it and he didn't know if it would worth it.

 

[Deleted member]

Of course.

But for the "right" things. Know that it's not
"I get the license for Geno and I can do what I want with him"
Or
"I got Sonic's right I can do anything!"

Characters right aren't like real-life rights. Characters rights often follow a "Character Bible" that force the party who buy said licence to follow it strictly.

That Bible is what force Sonic and Pac-Man to be absolutely Blue and Yellow no matter what pallette swap.

The Sonic/Pokemon Characters Bible leaked a few years ago for Exemple.

As for "Does buying X Characters rights allow me to do anything with them even if I follow the Bible?"

No. In the end, EACH type of use have it's sort of deal. The most famous one I can think of right now is

>Who framed Roger rabbit. Each cameo of each company was almost basically choosen by the company owner, and they all had to have the same screentime/dialogue as the rival company.

>Wreck-it Ralph for the use of each video games Characters, they needed the "OK" to see if it was fine to use it in X scenes.

> Disney allowing Nomura to use Mickey for ONE scene for KH1 when they didn't fully trusted him at all


I can also assure you that if we didn't see Cloud appears in ANY CGI or get Thanos'd in the cutscenes of World of Light is because Square-Enix Probably didn't gave them the right to use Cloud for CGI videos and probably never would let him get anihilated.

But yeah, basically, each type of use is a different kind of deal and licence to pay.

Mii costume? A deal
Trophy/Spirit? A deal
Music? A deal
Fighters? Another deal and even if some artistical liberties can be taken, there is still strict rules to follow

That's why people talking about the Mii costume and now the Spirit icon never made any sense to me. It even hurt his chance more since it means that Square-Enix allowed the licence for this but probably 100% said no as a Fighters.

You don't understand. The implication is tat because Geno is in the game already, and is a personal pick for Sakurai, as well as a very popular pick all around. The likelihood that he's already been settled for a full fighter is in fact very high. Not the other way around. I'm well aware of how licences work, but Geno being a spirit is in no way a "deconfirmation" on the contrary it bolsters his odds.

We're speaking probability here, but given what we can see in front of us right now, as well as what we know (no, not wat you think certain "insiders" are hinting at), if we were to bet between Geno and Sora, I'd say Geno has MUCH higher odds, all things considered. Is Sora a possibility and could I be wrong? Ofc, anyone can really. No one but Sakurai and his dev team really know what lies ahead for the future of the game. But if I were a gambling man, I personally wouldn't put any stock on Sora getting in.

 

[osby]

What's the pattern? Things people in the Smash community have been wrong about? You could make an equally long list of things they were correct about.

The ESRB part isn't even true, it most defintiely wasn't most of the Smash community saying that.

I don't really even see a theme. A lot of these are people denying stuff will happen, but K. Rool and Wolf were just incorrect guesses and they don't really fit with the rest of the post.

Theme: Smash fandom being wrong about things mainly because they want to believe something.

 

[Raxxel]

"Cloud will never happens, he's a PlayStation Icons and never had his game on Nintendo" - smash community during Brawl speculation.

"Ridley is never getting in he's too big Sakurai said so" - Smash community every smash game pre-ultimate.

"The ESRB is fake guy!!!" - Most of Smash community during this meltdown

"K.rool and Wolf are a lock for DLC!" - smash community during the Ballot periods

"There no way we get a game with no cut" - Smash community before Ultimate reveal

"SAKURAI DIDN'T MEAN THAT WE WILL GET LESS REVEAL! JUST THST THEY WILL SLOW DOWN!!!" Smash community after Isabelle.

"The box Theory isn't true!!!" Smash Community after the reveal of the box

"Waluigi and Geno are totally getting in guys!!!" - Smash community before Piranha plant's reveal

"THE GRINCH LEAK IS TRUUUE!! **** THE INSIDERS" - Big part of the smash community during the Grinch leak


I feel like we got a pattern here boys.

That's a strawman argument you've built. I haven't said half of those things, still think Goku is never happening. What chance does he have if requested characters like Isaac and Shadow still couldn't make it in?

 

[---]

I'm a little cautious in regards to predicting DLC beyond Verg's claims. There is still a lot we don't know and Piranha Plant kind of throws everything off the table in a way no other character has (granted PP is more iconic than 3/4ths of the base roster lol).

We need to know how Piranha Plant came to be.
What other companies appear with content beyond Ubisoft, Koei Tecmo, & Wayfoward; Minecraft could just be Spirits.
Data mining the game to see if there is another menu like in 3DS/Wii U. There could be more content like Piranha Plant that's not apart of the Fighter's Pass.
We can't guarantee that each DLC Newcomer will get a Stage or Music that is apart of their series, bar maybe new IPs.

Geno (also Bandana Dee) I think has a much better shot than he did previously thanks to Piranha Plant. I actually thought Piranha Plant's trailer was for Geno.
I wouldn't expect any updates bar the mobile phone app until the 2019 Q1 Nintendo Direct. I don't believe the VGA rumor.

 

[Lyndis_]

Theme: Smash fandom being wrong about things mainly because they want to believe something.

I somehow doubt people wanted characters to get cut. Especially since it could be their own characters they enjoy that doesn't really fit into that either.

 

[MSmariosonic]

The only games he had on Nintendo consoles were spinoffs. It seems to me like every other character has had at LEAST one mainseries game on a Nintendo console, so that means he broke a rule in my eyes.
Also, another rulebreaker: Sakurai said Ridley would never happen, but look where we are now.

Snake's appearances on Nintendo consoles were almost only remakes and the Metal Gear franchise is more associated with Playstation than FF as a whole

The Ridley part? It wasn't a rule. Sakurai didn't have a vision of how to implement the character at the time. No rule here.

Sakurai chooses to exclude Goku not because of how he can't think of how to implement him into the game.

The exclusion is because of an obvious reason.

 

[Deleted member]

He never said "never". He said it would be pretty hard and he'd need to put his best efforts into it and he didn't know if it would worth it.

Ohhhh... hmmm.
(am I the only one who didn't want Ridley in?)

Snake's appearances on Nintendo consoles were almost only remakes and the Metal Gear franchise is more associated with Playstation than FF as a whole

WRONG! The original Metal Gear Game (pre-Solid) was an NES games.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I like how the box theory supporters actually were wrong in a way: They all said not to give up hope for DLC, yet this Direct automatically killed any hope for DLC.

I somehow doubt people wanted characters to get cut. Especially since it could be their own characters they enjoy that doesn't really fit into that either.

You’d be surprised how many people want Fire Emblem out of the game entirely.

 

[SAMation]

That's a strawman argument you've built. I haven't said half of those things, still think Goku is never happening. What chance does he have if requested characters like Isaac and Shadow still couldn't make it in?

Shadow wasn’t that highly requested until echo fighters were revealed to be a thing. Tbh I thought knuckles and tails had more support than him before all the echo stuff.

 

[Nekoo]

What's the pattern? Things people in the Smash community have been wrong about? You could make an equally long list of things they were correct about.

The ESRB part isn't even true, it most defintiely wasn't most of the Smash community saying that.

I don't really even see a theme. A lot of these are people denying stuff will happen, but K. Rool and Wolf were just incorrect guesses and they don't really fit with the rest of the post... and it goes without saying a lot of the people saying one thing won't be all the same people saying another that ended up untrue.

That's a strawman argument you've built. I haven't said half of those things, still think Goku is never happening. What chance does he have if requested characters like Isaac and Shadow still couldn't make it in?

It's like y'all got triggered by a joke or something. I knew the bait would work