Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DJ3DS]

I want to throw my hat into the ring as someone who particularly misses the Ice Climbers. They were my favourite characters in Melee and Brawl. Sure, their implementation had some problems (wobbling and chain grabbing) and these specific things did make them quite controversial, but they weren't the only ones. Sm4sh fixed this for the most part (and took steps to patch out infinites as they were found) and given that I think they'd have a far more positive reception.

 

[Morbi]

I want to throw my hat into the ring as someone who particularly misses the Ice Climbers. They were my favourite characters in Melee and Brawl. Sure, their implementation had some problems (wobbling and chain grabbing) and these specific things did make them quite controversial, but they weren't the only ones. Sm4sh fixed this for the most part (and took steps to patch out infinites as they were found) and given that I think they'd have a far more positive reception.

I am not going to lie, I miss Wolf more than I miss the Ice Climbers; however, I never really cared for the Ice Climbers until they were actually missing. That was when I started to become attached to them. I went back and played Melee and Brawl to learn them and I would absolutely be thrilled to see them come back as wobbling and chain grabbing are not going to return. It makes me wonder how they would function, competitively, without those tools. The answer is "they probably will not." However, I am definitely curious. I just want to see what they would look like a decade later.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh, in that case, the rest of your sentence was even more jacked, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

An incel? Is there an alternate definition to that word... I am not seeing how this applies now. However, I would argue that a person's opinion on an unrelated subject has no bearing on their other opinions unless they are directly related.

It's my go-to way to call someone an absolute moron because you have to be delusional to think Icies weren't missed. ****, I miss em even though I felt they were useless. Though if it's Icies or 8 player Smash, I'll skin Popo and Nana alive myself

 

[Pakky]

It works too as I am referring to you AND pakky

Oh right I forgot you're an incel who claimed Nintendo's fun family party game would cut characters for being low tier a week or so ago right? If Ice Climbers and Rosalina are the same, Mario and Cloud are the same because they're supposed to be characters who are easy to pick up and play

What's with the hostility?

If there are six pokemon in this new game then fine if there are more that's fine too.

I'm just saying based on the outcomes of what rosters ended up being and what's been available for purchase to add to those rosters '6' has been the magic number twice now.

Will they stick to that? Maybe, maybe not.

I'm no expert, and this my be a case of 'MUH PATTERNS' but as far as things go barring gen 1 every even numbered genration of pokemon gets a rep.

Gen 2

Gen 4

Gen 6

Based on this and the game's release and how Greninja was devised for the Smash4 Gen 8 is getting a rep, no doubt.

Now I don't know what Pokemon's plans are for Megas but as things are Lucario to me seems to be losing footing because he's not really used as a pull for much anymore. This might be subjective but yeah. That could be wrong but beyond Pokken I'm not seeing a whole lot. Battle Bond, on the other hand, could end up being a thing that they start doing to take the place of Megas seeing as how the two are very similar. Also perhaps the gen 8 guy added will be a Grass Starter or a general rare 'cool guy' like Lucario

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Ice Climbers are as close to a given as we can get in terms of cut veterans. Keep in mind that Sakurai wanted them in Smash 4, but couldn't because of 3DS limitations. Plus, he actually spoke about their exclusion. I'll be legitimately surprised if they don't return.

As for 8-Player Smash? That can be axed for all I care. I had zero fun with the mode and the series was NOT built around eight players.

 

[Pacack]

In regards to surprising newcomers and the patterns they appear in, this is what I've noticed.

Historical Newcomer (Argued by some to be based on peripherals) :
Retro (Famicom) Character:

Then I'd argue others are intended to be surprises, but not to fulfill a specific criteria.

Unexpected Newcomer:






One could argue that two unexpected newcomers make it every game in the base roster (I separated Corrin because DLC). I have Marth and Rosalina as surprises because one was Japan-exclusive and the other was practically not considered.

I did not include the third parties because, while surprising, they are not added exclusively for shock factor. (See: Snake, Cloud, Bayonetta)

 

[Rockaphin]

I am not going to lie, I miss Wolf more than I miss the Ice Climbers; however, I never really cared for the Ice Climbers until they were actually missing. That was when I started to become attached to them. I went back and played Melee and Brawl to learn them and I would absolutely be thrilled to see them come back as wobbling and chain grabbing are not going to return. It makes me wonder how they would function, competitively, without those tools. The answer is "they probably will not." However, I am definitely curious. I just want to see what they would look like a decade later.

Yeah the biggest reason I didn't want them to return was due to those two broken exploits. However, I'm a little worried about potential combos with grab + foot stool. That is, if that mechanic even returns (praying it doesn't). Still though, removing chain-grabs is a huge relief.

Even now though, I'm not too excited to see them come back. I never cared for the way they played, or at least how I played them. And the duo caused such a headache back then, I kind of grew to just hate the character.

 

[Deleted member]

If you don't think people were upset over losing the Ice Climbers, I'd like to know what rock you've been living under.

Hell, they're the only cut character that Sakurai has ever spoken about in interviews, just because the cut was that shocking.

It honestly shouldn't have been shocking.
I mean, Sakurai did say characters like them were giving him trouble back in June/July of 2013.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Here is something you guys can use for reference:

It lists all the new IPs added in each Smash game, from 64 to Smash Switch. I thought this might be useful. Very surprising how Melee has the least amount of IPs.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What's with the hostility?

If there are six pokemon in this new game then fine if there are more that's fine too.

I'm just saying based on the outcomes of what rosters ended up being and what's been available for purchase to add to those rosters '6' has been the magic number twice now.

Will they stick to that? Maybe, maybe not.

I'm no expert, and this my be a case of 'MUH PATTERNS' but as far as things go barring gen 1 every even numbered genration of pokemon gets a rep.

Gen 2

Gen 4

Gen 6

Based on this and the game's release and how Greninja was devised for the Smash4 Gen 8 is getting a rep, no doubt.

Now I don't know what Pokemon's plans are for Megas but as things are Lucario to me seems to be losing footing because he's not really used as a pull for much anymore. This might be subjective but yeah. That could be wrong but beyond Pokken I'm not seeing a whole lot. Battle Bond, on the other hand, could end up being a thing that they start doing to take the place of Megas seeing as how the two are very similar. Also perhaps the gen 8 guy added will be a Grass Starter or a general rare 'cool guy' like Lucario

You've been saying that 6 is an important number to the Pokemon series and that's why there's 6 different Pokemon Smash for a while when you know what I said was true

 

[DJ3DS]

I am not going to lie, I miss Wolf more than I miss the Ice Climbers; however, I never really cared for the Ice Climbers until they were actually missing. That was when I started to become attached to them. I went back and played Melee and Brawl to learn them and I would absolutely be thrilled to see them come back as wobbling and chain grabbing are not going to return. It makes me wonder how they would function, competitively, without those tools. The answer is "they probably will not." However, I am definitely curious. I just want to see what they would look like a decade later.

I think they function a lot better as characters without chain grabbing than most people think. They would still get a lot of reward from a grab, be it charged smash attacks at kill percent, D-Throw F-Air tech-chases, Nana footstools, etc.. They also force characters with strong grab games to play differently.

More than that, they have a very strong camping game against certain characters. Desynched Blizzards and Ice Blocks are very difficult for certain characters to deal with - Sonic, for example, and I'd wager desynched Blizzards would give them a good matchup against the likes of Rosalina as well.

The thing about desynched Ice Climbers is that they suddenly become a much safer character - because one is always there to cover the others lag. Unfortunately we never really got to see that part of them, because fishing for grabs for instant kills was always so much more appealing.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Possible Takamaru Mechanics

• Holding the jump button after the first jump, causes Takamaru to run on air for a set duration. His sandals
cause water ripple effects. A press of A will have him perform an air dash attack. After his charge, he falls down and can use aerials.

• Katana attacks fill a meter that upgrades each throwing weapon.

-Shogi Pieces: His neutral B swaps him between different modes. Each mode changes the trajectory of all of his projectile attacks.
-Katana attacks gain the property to reflect projectiles at certain frames

 

[Pakky]

You've been saying that 6 is an important number to the Pokemon series and that's why there's 6 different Pokemon Smash for a while when you know what I said was true

It is but I mean what didn't happen doesn't seem to carry a lot of weight in comparison to what we got.

However whose to say what will happen in the future?

On the subject of Lucario, I see why he came back from Brawl due to gen 6 giving him such a huge focus but nw I'm just not seeing to much reason to keep him around. And in my opinion, if anyone were to be cut it'd be him. Greninja has the same treatment as Lucario did back when and is significant in two gens so I see him sticking around.

 

[Opossum]

Here is something you guys can use for reference:

It lists all the new IPs added in each Smash game, from 64 to Smash Switch. I thought this might be useful. Very surprising how Melee has the least amount of IPs.

Yoshi's head not being centered bothers me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It is but I mean what didn't happen doesn't seem to carry a lot of weight in comparison to what we got.

However whose to say what will happen in the future?

Mewtwo's data was almost finished, if Sonic didn't get rushed in we'd probably have gotten him

 

[Pakky]

Mewtwo's data was almost finished, if Sonic didn't get rushed in we'd probably have gotten him

Yeah but that fact of the matter is that he wasn't in the game.

So I'm not too sure what to say, it's possible that we get 7 or 8 guys from pokemon I just doubt it.

 

[LancerStaff]

If you don't think people were upset over losing the Ice Climbers, I'd like to know what rock you've been living under.

Hell, they're the only cut character that Sakurai has ever spoken about in interviews, just because the cut was that shocking.

Nobody was upset lmao. Some people on Smashboards here whine and scream about it but it obvious that these people will whine about literally anything.

He spoke about them because it was a technical issue. It wasn’t remotely shocking. He didn’t express any surprise or remorse.

Oh right I forgot you're an incel who claimed Nintendo's fun family party game would cut characters for being low tier a week or so ago right? If Ice Climbers and Rosalina are the same, Mario and Cloud are the same because they're supposed to be characters who are easy to pick up and play

No I’m not. Lmfao.

Maybe instead of slinging insults and mistaking people’s identities you should try having an actual, mature discussion. I know that’s a lot to ask of Smashboards but still.

 

[Deleted member]

Unexpected Newcomer:

Marth is literally an unexpected character only outside Japan, so it doesn't really count.
He was highly requested there.

 

[Pakky]

Thinking about it now, dang are they even still making rare cool guys in the games anymore?

Like gen 4 was Lucario, you were given one and couldn't catch it in the wild

Gen 5 had Zoroark who had this whole weird in-game event around it

Gen6 ???

Gen 7 ???

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Nobody was upset lmao. Some people on Smashboards here whine and scream about it but it obvious that these people will whine about literally anything.

He spoke about them because it was a technical issue. It wasn’t remotely shocking. He didn’t express any surprise or remorse.



No I’m not. Lmfao.

Maybe instead of slinging insults and mistaking people’s identities you should try having an actual, mature discussion. I know that’s a lot to ask of Smashboards but still.

Aaah the classic "I'm so much more mature than this website and I'm not afraid to show it" attitude
That will never get old

 

[LancerStaff]

Aaah the classic "I'm so much more mature than this website and I'm not afraid to show it" attitude
That will never get old

It’s just the truth. I’m not the person going around calling people incels lmfao.

 

[Curious Villager]

Thinking about it now, dang are they even still making rare cool guys in the games anymore?

Like gen 4 was Lucario, you were given one and couldn't catch it in the wild

Gen 5 had Zoroark who had this whole weird in-game event around it

Gen6 ???

Gen 7 ???

They probably stopped because people complained about Zoroark being a Lucario rip-off and whatnot..

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I'm no expert, and this my be a case of 'MUH PATTERNS' but as far as things go barring gen 1 every even numbered genration of pokemon gets a rep.

Gen 2

Gen 4

Gen 6

Based on this and the game's release and how Greninja was devised for the Smash4 Gen 8 is getting a rep, no doubt.

Yeah, no. That's reaching. The games these Pokémon debuted in we're from the most recent generation to come out well before each respective Smash Bros. did; them being even numbered is just a coincidence. As for gen 8 we probably won't even see anything on it until next year, after Smash Bros. has come out.

It's likely that Sakurai decided the roster before Sun and Moon even came out, so I doubt there was any substantial information on the 8th gen at that time. If you want to go off of patterns it's likely we won't see 8th gen this year, because there has always been at least 3 years between the release of new generations. Giving a generation only 2 years to shine seems a bit unlikely, don't you think? Plus at last years E3 they said it may not release for more than a year.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

It’s just the truth. I’m not the person going around calling people incels lmfao.

"Just telling the truth"

'Ey, got two on the unapologetic **** bingo card, keep going tiger

Anyways, Takamaru would be nice with Shogi Pieces and reflective katana, since he can reflect his own projectiles on top of throwing them regularily in different directions. He'd make a great precision marksman character and a precision samurai if his sword has smaller hitboxes than Marth's head-shoulders-knee-to-toe swings

 

[Schnee117]

It’s just the truth. I’m not the person going around calling people incels lmfao.

Ah yes the "truth" that Rosalina and Luma aren't a Puppeteer character.
The "truth" that very few people miss the Ice Climbers.
Get over yourself lmao.

 

[Morbi]

Yeah, no. That's reaching. The games these Pokémon debuted in we're from the most recent generation to come out well before each respective Smash Bros. did; them being even numbered is just a coincidence. As for gen 8 we probably won't even see anything on it until next year, after Smash Bros. has come out.

It's likely that Sakurai decided the roster before Sun and Moon even came out, so I doubt there was any substantial information on the 8th gen at that time. If you want to go off of patterns it's likely we won't see 8th gen this year, because there has always been at least 3 years between the release of new generations. Giving a generation only 2 years to shine seems a bit unlikely, don't you think? Plus at last years E3 they said it may not release for more than a year.

I have to admit, two coincidences regarding the same situation is absolutely interesting. At least I can see where he is coming from. I fully expect them to break the "pattern" with Smash Switch, but I have to admit, it is definitely odd.

Ah yes the "truth" that Rosalina and Luma aren't a Puppeteer character.
The "truth" that very few people miss the Ice Climbers.
Get over yourself lmao.

To be fair, Rosalina is so dumbed down relative to the archetype that I am hesitant to call her a puppeteer character myself. Pseudo-puppeteer is good enough for me.

 

[Deleted member]

For Pokemon I do hope Decidueye gets in but if it was something else fine with that.

 

[LancerStaff]

"Just telling the truth"

'Ey, got two on the unapologetic **** bingo card, keep going tiger

What, are you not supposed to call out bull****? If you’re going to stoop to insults you deserve to be treated like ****.

Ah yes the "truth" that Rosalina and Luma aren't a Puppeteer character.
The "truth" that very few people miss the Ice Climbers.
Get over yourself lmao.

Once again Smashboards takes everything out of context to paint people like bad guys and pretend everything is black and white. Isn’t that material a little sad and tired?

 

[RodNutTakin]

What, are you not supposed to call out bull****? If you’re going to stoop to insults you deserve to be treated like ****.



Once again Smashboards takes everything out of context to paint people like bad guys and pretend everything is black and white. Isn’t that material a little sad and tired?

Why are you so hostile over a video game character jesus christ

 

[Pakky]

It's likely that Sakurai decided the roster before Sun and Moon even came out, so I doubt there was any substantial information on the 8th gen at that time. If you want to go off of patterns it's likely we won't see 8th gen this year, because there has always been at least 3 years between the release of new generations. Giving a generation only 2 years to shine seems a bit unlikely, don't you think? Plus at last years E3 they said it may not release for more than a year.

Isn't gen 8 coming out this year with Smash?

 

[Schnee117]

Once again Smashboards takes everything out of context to paint people like bad guys and pretend everything is black and white. Isn’t that material a little sad and tired?

Why yes I do wish I could be talking about stuff here with someone who isn't grossly ignorant and unfit for debate.

 

[Morbi]

Why are you so hostile over a video game character jesus christ

Um, do you have trouble reading? He is literally responding to people personally attacking him. I doubt he cares that much about a video-game character. This is honestly a bit ridiculous.

 

[N3ON]

Don't expect much progress when arguing with Lancerstaff.

Just wait until reality proves him wrong, as it often does.

 

[Opossum]

Nobody was upset lmao. Some people on Smashboards here whine and scream about it but it obvious that these people will whine about literally anything.

He spoke about them because it was a technical issue. It wasn’t remotely shocking. He didn’t express any surprise or remorse.



No I’m not. Lmfao.

Maybe instead of slinging insults and mistaking people’s identities you should try having an actual, mature discussion. I know that’s a lot to ask of Smashboards but still.

Dude. Seriously. Look anywhere online outside of Smashboards and you'll see people were upset. Hell, I was upset. Do I not count?


Closing your eyes doesn't stop something from existing just because you can no longer see it.

 

[Troykv]

Let's then just stop this pointless conversation with something else.

I have a draw of Micaiah that a friend did it some time ago.

Spoiler

"What if Micaiah was like Altina?" This is draw is a combination of Micaiah's and Altina's Costumes.#Micaiah #FE pic.twitter.com/SICYRILLFY

— Micaiah Supporters! Micaiah for Smash! (@Micaiah4Smash) May 21, 2016

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Nobody was upset lmao. Some people on Smashboards here whine and scream about it but it obvious that these people will whine about literally anything.

He spoke about them because it was a technical issue. It wasn’t remotely shocking. He didn’t express any surprise or remorse.



No I’m not. Lmfao.

Maybe instead of slinging insults and mistaking people’s identities you should try having an actual, mature discussion. I know that’s a lot to ask of Smashboards but still.

Saying the Ice Climbers weren’t missed is blatantly false, and you only say that because you don’t care about them. Others have come and explained to you not only why they were missed, but what made them different from Rosalina and Luma.

You deliberately ignored both and then said others were wrong that they weren’t both puppeteer characters. You then provided zero evidence to state why they were the same.

You are also the first one to bring attitude and negativity to the discussion.

If you don’t like the Ice Climbers, that’s totally fine! Nobody will come after you for not liking them. It’s the pretending that nobody misses them that is bothering others. As somebody who didn’t play them often, I can say that my friends and I DO want them back in the game.

If you didn’t include the inflammatory stuff, this discussion probably would have ended by now.

Also, not that it means anything but the whole “i’m just speaking the truth”, “literally nobody liked that and they’re just whiny about everything” schtick is pretty juvenile. Just throwing that out there.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Isn't gen 8 coming out this year with Smash?

Nothing has been said to suggest that.

 

[Pacack]

Marth is literally an unexpected character only outside Japan, so it doesn't really count.
He was highly requested there.

Oh, I know. That's why I put my little disclaimer beneath it.

I have Marth and Rosalina as surprises because one was Japan-exclusive and the other was practically not considered.

Should I separate the reasoning for Marth and for Rosalina since Marth's a bit of a special case? I don't want to be confusing.

 

[N3ON]

If Marth is a surprise addition, Lucas would also be surprise addition. Which doesn't really make sense, because it's untrue.

Unless the argument would then shift to him being a surprise character because people didn't anticipate a Japan-only character.

In which case Greninja would be a surprise character. People didn't anticipate a solo starter. Hell, on that list more people thought we'd get Rosalina before solo Greninja.

I think the truth of the matter is Marth isn't really a surprise character, people just didn't really internet the same way back then, so fewer people knew about him.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I’d also like to comment that characters, once again, aren’t cut because they “don’t matter”. I’m not salty that we’re talking about cuts. We can talk about cuts but don’t use stupid reasoning.

Again, no character who has shown up twice has ever been cut.

If we’re going to cut Lucario because he “doesn’t matter” then let’s cut Rosalina and Ike while we’re at it. Those two don’t have major roles anymore, so clearly we should remove them.

Sounds ridiculous right? That’s because it is.

Everybody will be planned to return unless you’re a 3rd party and your contract is to expire.

Time determines the rest.