Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Rocket Raccoon]

It's been that way since Brawl. It wasn't just Smash 4.

FD in Brawl was it's own song.

 

[Opossum]

FD in Brawl was it's own song.

Uh...you may wanna listen again. It's a remix of the Brawl theme.

 

[RouffWestie]

Your reaction: The game releases with 3DS & WiiU stages and modes combined and no cut characters, but the only newcomers are Inklings and 2 other expected characters.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Uh...you may wanna listen again. It's a remix of the Brawl theme.

...No way.

 

[WiFi]

Etika just announced that he wants to be in the Invitational.

 

[Opossum]

...No way.

I mean, it literally starts out with the "Audi famam ilius" chant...it's kind of obvious from the get go, not even mentioning the fact that everything else matches as well.

 

[LancerStaff]

Spoken like someone who doesn't play either Ice Climbers or Rosalina and Luma.

One's a tag team character while the other is a puppeteer. That alone dictates their playstyle, and they couldn't be more different.

They’re both puppeteers. Except Rosalina isn’t a walking ball of jank.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I mean, it literally starts out with the "Audi famam ilius" chant...it's kind of obvious from the get go, not even mentioning the fact that everything else matches as well.

Wow, you just ruined a small, tiny, insignificant bit of my childhood.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

They’re both puppeteers. Except Rosalina isn’t a walking ball of jank.

I don’t know that they’re as similar as you’re saying. If they were, Rosalina would have stressed the system as much as the Climbers did.

Given the fact that they ran fine on Wii U, and there isn’t a 2nd version coming out this time, i’d say they have a reasonable chance of returning. They were planned to return in Wii U/3DS in the first place.

 

[LancerStaff]

I don’t know that they’re as similar as you’re saying. If they were, Rosalina would have stressed the system as much as the Climbers did.

Given the fact that they ran fine on Wii U, and there isn’t a 2nd version coming out this time, i’d say they have a reasonable chance of returning. They were planned to return in Wii U/3DS in the first place.

The resources saved are largely from Luma using a much more simplified AI and not having a full moveset.

They “ran.” We don’t know to what extent. Even the 3DS could handle two pairs.

They’re just a massive resource hog. They can put that much more into the game without them.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

No one is saying x should get cut because **** x supporters. We needn't placate people just because they may like some character if that causes us to disregard reason. Every time the conversation turns to cuts for more than a post or two someone pops up and reminds everyone to stay mindful of feelings, as if debating cuts is just people ****ting on characters instead of acknowledging a reality of the series, and like with do with every other area, trying to predict it.

Are we so thin-skinned that someone simply espousing a fictional character may not return in a game they're doing nothing more than envisioning is a matter of personal upset? People need to stop conflating a cut with an aspersion. And if someone is saying 'cut so-and-so because I don't like them', I'd hope we'd have the good sense to see the erroneous logic there, not seriously entertain it, and be able to distinguish it from the typical rhetoric surrounding cuts, which is that they're just part of the territory, as to which many here have attested. I guess predicting newcomers might be more "fun", but predicting cuts is no less important (for however important any of this is), and shouldn't be bemoaned literally every time it occurs. Ignoring cuts won't make them go away, and discussing them doesn't make you some hater or pessimist.

I think y'all might be a little over-invested in things if simply discussing cuts is an emotionally unstable area to tread through. I mean my favourite character is the one that may be the most frequent subject of conversations regarding cuts, and if I took it personally, I'd have driven myself up the wall by now.

And this is coming from someone who does think there's as good a chance as ever that we actually won't get cuts this time due to Smash Switch being some mid-step kinda thing.

Excellent post.

The voice of reason amidst the discussion of cuts. Thank you, N3ON.

As for characters I think could be cut, I'd narrow it down to several categories. The more of these categories a character shows up in, the more likely they are to be lower priority in development in getting into the base roster:

Technically Multiple Characters:
Clones:
Nearly Cut In The Past:
Previously Cut Veterans:
Smash 4 DLC Newcomers:
Potential Flavor-of-the-Month:
Third-Parties:

Among the characters that show up twice, Bayonetta, Cloud and Ryu were all third-parties that came out as DLC and might not get renewed for future appearances (depending on how differently DLC royalties are from base-game ones); Corrin was DLC that was very likely only added due to their current relevance; Roy and Dr. Mario are clones that have been cut from Super Smash Bros. Melee meaning they've never had the same ability to be a "lock" the way most other veterans are; and Lucina is a clone that may or may not also lean on recency or even end up being reverted to alternate costume status.

I still personally hold caution over several others as well. Greninja absolutely relied on its recency as a representative of Generation VI and might be dropped the way Pokemon has seen more drops than any other series. Robin might be under the same lense, though I believe he stands with his own merit more so than Greninja might have. Lucas, as much as I love the boy, never really had a reason to be cut in the first place compared to Ice Climber's 3DS limitations, Snake's third-party contract renegotiation, and Wolf's last-minute status in Brawl. If he was dropped before in spite of nothing really holding him back as a veteran, he may be left to being DLC yet again. Dark Pit is a clone of Pit and might not return if the base roster isn't in the market for alternate-costumes turned last-minute clones. Finally, the Mii Fighters definitely required a large amount of resources to create, relying entirely on having three separate character-types, completely unique custom moves, Mii functionality, and the plethora of fighter costumes. If they weren't prioritized over most everyone else above, they may or may not take too long to get into the game to the same extent they were in Smash 4.

In summary, I'd only be absolutely shocked over a cut if it's not one of the following characters:
Bayonetta
Cloud
Ryu
Corrin
Roy
Dr. Mario
Lucina
Greninja
Robin
Lucas
Dark Pit
Mii Fighters

I think that otherwise wraps up the potential cuts in this game, unless someone else suddenly suffers the same anomaly in priority the way Lucas did in Smash 4. I'm sure most characters here would return as DLC if cut, if they weren't already DLC to begin with.

I think there is also the factor of the sales of individual DLC characters to take into account, seeing as it makes sense that the character that sold the least could be lower priority.

 

[Opossum]

The resources saved are largely from Luma using a much more simplified AI and not having a full moveset.

They “ran.” We don’t know to what extent. Even the 3DS could handle two pairs.

They’re just a massive resource hog. They can put that much more into the game without them.

And yet they existed in Brawl despite the SSE being a legendarily massive resource hog.

To say that the Ice Climbers would eat up that much development time is ridiculous.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The resources saved are largely from Luma using a much more simplified AI and not having a full moveset.

They “ran.” We don’t know to what extent. Even the 3DS could handle two pairs.

They’re just a massive resource hog. They can put that much more into the game without them.

I’m fairly certain when Sakurai mentioned them in an interview, he specifically mentioned the 3DS as the culprit of their demise. I could be wrong.

I myself believe it would be worthwhile in bringing them back. But that’s simply a difference of opinion.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wolf doesn't seem super likely to return, but IC's probably will, since technical limitations are unlikely to be an issue this time around. Also, IC's are not puppeteers. They're a tag-team duo. It's a double character gimmick that's significantly more unique from Rosalina & Luma. Nana has her own A.I. that can fully act out on its own. Luma cannot. They have entirely different roles and just a few similarities at best.

 

[Ura]

i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1. ridley
2. isaac
3. king k rool
4. hades
5. decidueye

1. Andy
2. Isaac
3. K. Rool
4. Mike Jones
5. Ayumi Tachibana

Honorable Mentions: Bandana Dee, Lyn, Waluigi

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They’re both puppeteers. Except Rosalina isn’t a walking ball of jank.

One is an AI character who follows you and mimics you, though is able to be manipulated to do unique stuff
The other is an extension of the character who has the same inputs, meaning it doesn't mimic. Plus Rosalina can kill people at 40% with her jank ****, Smash 4 made chaingrabbing impossible so unless they change that, Icies wouldn't be jank.
Come back when you know what you're actually talking about


Also I saw clone discussion and for the love of god, give Dark Pit a new moveset. Kid Icarus Uprising has SO many cool potential things to pull from so Dark Pit using the same arsenal outside of a Final Smash is incredibly disappointing. How about say, a Reaper Palm special, which summons Reapettes to attack enemies for you? Pandora Claws to not only have a rather unique moveset, but also nod at Dark Pit's ties to Pandora in the game, which would also justify Power of Flight better. And maybe some Cannons or Arms or anything else to use as potential attacks

 

[Deathcarter]

i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1. ridley
2. isaac
3. king k rool
4. hades
5. decidueye

1. Mimikyu
2. Midna & Wolf Link
3. Lyn
4. King K. Rool
5. Rex & Pyra

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have a new prediction roster if you guys would like to judge.

I am not 100% confident on this one and I still need to do some adjusting and research, but so far, this has been the most "realistic" one I made.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I have a new prediction roster if you guys would like to judge.

I am not 100% confident on this one and I still need to do some adjusting and research, but so far, this has been the most "realistic" one I made.

Blue we've been over this on Discord Hanafuda won't happen

 

[LancerStaff]

And yet they existed in Brawl despite the SSE being a legendarily massive resource hog.

To say that the Ice Climbers would eat up that much development time is ridiculous.

I mean power, not time and money.

Stages and characters can be “bigger” if you don’t have a character that literally takes up twice as much power.

I’m fairly certain when Sakurai mentioned them in an interview, he specifically mentioned the 3DS as the culprit of their demise. I could be wrong.

I myself believe it would be worthwhile in bringing them back. But that’s simply a difference of opinion.

It’s one niche character that cuts into other parts of the game, and they have a successor to boot.

Wolf doesn't seem super likely to return, but IC's probably will, since technical limitations are unlikely to be an issue this time around. Also, IC's are not puppeteers. They're a tag-team duo. It's a double character gimmick that's significantly more unique from Rosalina & Luma. Nana has her own A.I. that can fully act out on its own. Luma cannot. They have entirely different roles and just a few similarities at best.

Explain then. Because I see two puppet characters. One is hilariously inefficient and likely only exists because of a scrapped 8-player mode, and the other is trimmed down, not a total cluster **** of design issues, and is an actual character that people care about.

I think that the ICies were made with the knowledge that they would likely be cut because they’re that inefficient.

One is an AI character who follows you and mimics you, though is able to be manipulated to do unique stuff
The other is an extension of the character who has the same inputs, meaning it doesn't mimic. Plus Rosalina can kill people at 40% with her jank ****, Smash 4 made chaingrabbing impossible so unless they change that, Icies wouldn't be jank.
Come back when you know what you're actually talking about

They both puppeteers that are extensions of the main characters and work off the same inputs.

Come back when you actually know what you’re talking about.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I have a new prediction roster if you guys would like to judge.

I am not 100% confident on this one and I still need to do some adjusting and research, but so far, this has been the most "realistic" one I made.

Eliminate the transformation and make them their own slot.

Replace PKMN Trainer with Charizard.

Personally I don’t think they’ll cut Roy but eh, other than that it seems reasonable. Although I don’t think Hanafuda will be a thing, but to each their own.

 

[papagenos]

I have a new prediction roster if you guys would like to judge.

I am not 100% confident on this one and I still need to do some adjusting and research, but so far, this has been the most "realistic" one I made.

Hanufuda cards AND a WTF (Labo?) seems like one would be enough haha also I’m doubtul if two animal crossing newcomers just cause sakurai was wary of how he’d even rep the game in a fighting game like smash so I feel villager is all we’ll get as a fighter, sakurai considers stages and music and stuff as good representation if that better fits the series even if the public tends to focus on the roster so I doubt animal crossing will even get one newcomer but it could happen.

Very safe third party guesses tho, I don’t think I’ve seen someone guess what is basically the most “likely” which is Rayman (trophy and Mario rabbids strong Nintendo Ubisoft relationship lately) hehaichi (2nd namco rep like sega and capcom got) and shovel knight (strong ties with Nintendo lately and huge on the ballot). I expect to get blown away by a third party choice (crash banjo etc... Nintendo needs to top the hype of cloud, tho they could do it with a first party like Ridley) but I’d say these are the safest wisest assumption guesses for third parties.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Eliminate the transformation and make them their own slot.

Replace PKMN Trainer with Charizard.

Personally I don’t think they’ll cut Roy but eh, other than that it seems reasonable. Although I don’t think Hanafuda will be a thing, but to each their own.

100% of the roster is personal bias.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean power, not time and money.

Stages and characters can be “bigger” if you don’t have a character that literally takes up twice as much power.



It’s one niche character that cuts into other parts of the game, and they have a successor to boot.



Explain then. Because I see two puppet characters. One is hilariously inefficient and likely only exists because of a scrapped 8-player mode, and the other is trimmed down, not a total cluster **** of design issues, and is an actual character that people care about.

I think that the ICies were made with the knowledge that they would likely be cut because they’re that inefficient.



They both puppeteers that are extensions of the main characters and work off the same inputs.

Come back when you actually know what you’re talking about.

Nana reacts to Popo for most of her attacks. Luma's attacks happen at the same time as Rosalina. And Nana is ESSENTIAL for Popo, they're the whole gimmick and can be immensely crippled. Rosalina losing Luma is bad yes but she's not horribly crippled for the rest of her stock if Luma dies. They aren't. The same. And people care about the Ice Climbers in Smash considering how many were upset that they were cut to begin with.

 

[Modkiq]

I feel like they can't release a teaser like that without it being a new game. They know how much disappointment a port would create.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Very safe third party guesses tho, I don’t think I’ve seen someone guess what is basically the most “likely” which is Rayman (trophy and Mario rabbids strong Nintendo Ubisoft relationship lately) hehaichi (2nd namco rep like sega and capcom got) and shovel knight (strong ties with Nintendo lately and huge on the ballot). I expect to get blown away by a third party choice (crash banjo etc... Nintendo needs to top the hype of cloud, tho they could do it with a first party like Ridley) but I’d say these are the safest wisest assumption guesses for third parties.

The new third-parties in Smash 4's base roster were very safe choices like Mega Man and Pac-Man though. It could happen again with Smash Switch maybe, but I could see a surprise third-party.

 

[Blackwolf666]

i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1. ridley
2. isaac
3. king k rool
4. hades
5. decidueye

Going to exclude Veterans....

1. Rex & Pyra
2. Bomberman
3. Shovel Knight
4. Banjo & Kazooie
5. Cranky Kong (Been steadily wanting him more and more)

If Bomberman, Shovel Knight and Banjo-Kazooie don't count I replace them with... Waluigi, Ridley and Krystal in that order from 3-5

 

[blackghost]

Because I see two puppet characters. One is hilariously inefficient and likely only exists because of a scrapped 8-player mode, and the other is trimmed down, not a total cluster **** of design issues, and is an actual character that people care about.

I think that the ICies were made with the knowledge that they would likely be cut because they’re that inefficient.

They both puppeteers that are extensions of the main characters and work off the same .

First lets chill out here. Secondly the icies are not a puppeteer they are a duo. Rosalina is a puppeteer. There are other characters in under night and in naruto games that act like rosalina. A puppeteer uses a tool separate from himself to extend his reach or set up traps. Often the puppet does nore damage. Sometimes the puppeteer cannot fight at all if the puppet is out of reach or dead.

The icies do not fit this description at all. They work as a tag team. I dont know of another character that works like they do. Icies are a strain on hardware that is true but they were a strain on 3ds not system hardware.

I see a lot of people talk about 8 player being cut, i dont thinj it will nintendo yas been about having couch multiplayer for years weve had 8 player mario party before and in this game its feasible. Its supposed to be choatic and mindless everyrhing isbt about the competitive scene. In college 8 player smash was so frequent for me it was mindless entertaining and social. Should it be cut from classic? Possibly. But removed altogether? I dont think so i mean coin mode is still here (half of you havent touched that since melee)

 

[Opossum]

I have a new prediction roster if you guys would like to judge.

I am not 100% confident on this one and I still need to do some adjusting and research, but so far, this has been the most "realistic" one I made.

The one big thing I don't like about it is the return of transformations. Sakurai seemed to concede that they weren't popular as a mechanic when he cut them due to the 3DS. That and you have WTF listed twice.

Other than that I feel like this is somewhat close to what we're getting, and it's honestly fairly close to my own roster.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The new third-parties in Smash 4's base roster were very safe choices like Mega Man and Pac-Man though. It could happen again with Smash Switch maybe, but I could see a surprise third-party.

Mega Man safe? he was a popular request sure, but people weren't exactly optimistic considering how Capcom treated the franchise for a while

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Explain then. Because I see two puppet characters. One is hilariously inefficient and likely only exists because of a scrapped 8-player mode, and the other is trimmed down, not a total cluster **** of design issues, and is an actual character that people care about.

I think that the ICies were made with the knowledge that they would likely be cut because they’re that inefficient.

IC's were entirely made because he was looking for a retro character with a unique gimmick, which is solely for their double character potential. They were cut for one reason; they could not work with the 3DS' limitations. You're projecting your own bias instead of accepting the reality of what actually happened and was hard explained to us. Please stop making up stuff to justify them not coming back, especially when it makes no sense. The only thing that was noted was inefficient was the transformation characters, but that's not actually why they were split, which was also 3DS limitations. He basically noted that keeping them separated was also a good idea for balance, so an afterthought that is taken into consideration(and why there's a good reason to believe transformation characters like Zelda/Sheik won't be combined again).

Now, them not working well in 8-player Smash is a legit possibility(but was irrelevant anyway since if they couldn't get in the 3DS version, they would never be in the Wii U version. It was both or nothing).

Puppeteer characters, fyi, fully control the other character. Rosalina controls Luma entirely. Popo does not always control Nana, who has her own advanced A.I. and consistently makes decisions for herself. They also play extremely differently design-wise. Rosalina also is a very capable character by herself, having many strong moves, while Popo is heavily nerfed without Nana, removing not only the ability to properly Recover via Up B(Belay), but also removes their combo moves(and it's not just chain-grabbing either. Don't forget de-syncing is a thing, which allows Nana to do her own thing, making them a very unique fighter in their capabilities).

Two characters =/= Puppeteer. For that matter, IC's were made with the idea that losing Nana actually matters. It barely matters with Rosalina in the same way. They were made with beyond different roles and gameplay in-mind.

 

[papagenos]

Mega Man safe? he was a popular request sure, but people weren't exactly optimistic considering how Capcom treated the franchise for a while

He was still the next most wanted after sonic it was the choice that most people wanted, where as this time it’s really hard to guess what 3rd party is most popular or likely.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Which newcomer category do you feel is more uncertain to predict for Smash? Sakurai's choice for a new WFT WTF character, Sakurai's choice for a new "surprise" retro character, or Sakurai's choice for a new third-party?

 

[Morbi]

IC's were entirely made because he was looking for a retro character with a unique gimmick, which is solely for their double character potential. They were cut for one reason; they could not work with the 3DS' limitations. You're projecting your own bias instead of accepting the reality of what actually happened and was hard explained to us. Please stop making up stuff to justify them not coming back, especially when it makes no sense. The only thing that was noted was inefficient was the transformation characters, but that's not actually why they were split, which was also 3DS limitations. He basically noted that keeping them separated was also a good idea for balance, so an afterthought that is taken into consideration(and why there's a good reason to believe transformation characters like Zelda/Sheik won't be combined again).

Now, them not working well in 8-player Smash is a legit possibility(but was irrelevant anyway since if they couldn't get in the 3DS version, they would never be in the Wii U version. It was both or nothing).

Puppeteer characters, fyi, fully control the other character. Rosalina controls Luma entirely. Popo does not always control Nana, who has her own advanced A.I. and consistently makes decisions for herself. They also play extremely differently design-wise. Rosalina also is a very capable character by herself, having many strong moves, while Popo is heavily nerfed without Nana, removing not only the ability to properly Recover via Up B(Belay), but also removes their combo moves(and it's not just chain-grabbing either. Don't forget de-syncing is a thing, which allows Nana to do her own thing, making them a very unique fighter in their capabilities).

Two characters =/= Puppeteer. For that matter, IC's were made with the idea that losing Nana actually matters. It barely matters with Rosalina in the same way. They were made with beyond different roles and gameplay in-mind.

I am not entirely sure, do not get me wrong, I agree with your assessment; however, it is not as though Sakurai was that adamant about their inclusion or he would have likely developed a SoPo version or just got rid of the arbitrary "the roster needs to be the same but the entire game can still be different" rule he had. But he did not. So, that leads me to believe that the 3DS was not the ONLY reason, they were probably lower priority in the first place. It is still incredibly likely that they return, but I would not go as far as to say it is guaranteed either.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He was still the next most wanted after sonic it was the choice that most people wanted, where as this time it’s really hard to guess what 3rd party is most popular or likely.

I wouldn't have considered MegaMan safe either. Absolutely considered as he's a very iconic character, but that was it.

The thing is, Capcom's issues made him a hard one to guess if he'd get in or not. It's part of why Ryu took people by surprise a bit too(not counting people misreading what Sakurai meant by fighting game characters, which was more that adapting them to Smash while keeping them interesting isn't that easy).

I am not entirely sure, do not get me wrong, I agree with your assessment; however, it is not as though Sakurai was that adamant about their inclusion or he would have likely developed a SoPo version or just got rid of the arbitrary "the roster needs to be the same but the entire game can still be different" rule he had. But he did not. So, that leads me to believe that the 3DS was not the ONLY reason, they were probably lower priority in the first place. It is still incredibly likely that they return, but I would not go as far as to say it is guaranteed either.

They tried very hard to make them playable, but gave up after a while. They still spent quite a bit of time on them. SoPo version is completely ruining the character playstyle, and he isn't going to bend his key rule for both versions, which were meant to be the same game character-wise as part of the "duo version" ideal.

8-Player Smash could've also had a small bit of influence, but the rosters being the same version was clearly more important. The only case of low priority for them instead was "they can't spend an extreme amount of resources on one character over and over, and have to work on the rest of the game."

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He was still the next most wanted after sonic it was the choice that most people wanted, where as this time it’s really hard to guess what 3rd party is most popular or likely.

Got any source on that?

Which newcomer category do you feel is more uncertain to predict for Smash? Sakurai's choice for a new WFT WTF character, Sakurai's choice for a new "surprise" retro character, or Sakurai's choice for a new third-party?

I mean. WTF characters are called such for a reason

 

[Morbi]

Mega Man safe? he was a popular request sure, but people weren't exactly optimistic considering how Capcom treated the franchise for a while

In hindsight, it was probably a safe choice merely BECAUSE they did not seem to care whatsoever, they let a comic relief version into Street Fighter cross Tekken ffs. Again, at the time, I definitely thought it was a "surprise." But looking back, it was definitely a safe assumption.

I wouldn't have considered MegaMan safe either. Absolutely considered as he's a very iconic character, but that was it.

The thing is, Capcom's issues made him a hard one to guess if he'd get in or not. It's part of why Ryu took people by surprise a bit too(not counting people misreading what Sakurai meant by fighting game characters, which was more that adapting them to Smash while keeping them interesting isn't that easy).


They tried very hard to make them playable, but gave up after a while. They still spent quite a bit of time on them. SoPo version is completely ruining the character playstyle, and he isn't going to bend his key rule for both versions, which were meant to be the same game character-wise as part of the "duo version" ideal.

8-Player Smash could've also had a small bit of influence, but the rosters being the same version was clearly more important. The only case of low priority for them instead was "they can't spend an extreme amount of resources on one character over and over, and have to work on the rest of the game."

Yes, that was my point. They were not that important enough to warrant making happen despite the fact that they objectively could. And now that they were not present and we got to see a Smash without them, the circumstances have changed. It is entirely feasible that they are not high priority this time around.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a new prediction roster if you guys would like to judge.

I am not 100% confident on this one and I still need to do some adjusting and research, but so far, this has been the most "realistic" one I made.

WTF is a "WTF?! N" character?
You already have Daitoryou as the token surprise character. Don't get greedy.

 

[BluePikmin11]

WTF is a "WTF?! N" character?
You already have Daitoryou as the token surprise character. Don't get greedy.

I see the "WTF N" character as the Wii Fit Trainer-esque WTF Nintendo addition. While I see a Hanafuda characer as the token surprise retro character. The additions I made are much like how Smash 4 selected its newcomers.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I see the "WTF N" character as the Wii Fit Trainer-esque WTF Nintendo addition. While I see a Hanafuda characer as the token surprise retro character. The additions I made are much like how Smash 4 selected its newcomers.

Stop this stupid meme