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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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N3ON

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That's fair. I was not trying to suggest that we can not discuss these things, it is just that it seems that when we discuss cuts it always devolves to "clones should be cut," or "cut this character cause they do not work well" and it just is not really constructive in terms of discussing this new Smash game.
Point me to where that happened in this "toxic" conversation.

I have a list of characters that I feel do not need to return in the next Smash game and I am pretty sure that I have stated whom they are at least a couple of times in this thread. It just seems kinda unnecessary to revisit this topic again at this stage I guess. But then we come to the problem of what to discuss now since we are already foaming at the mouth for more information about this game :dizzy:
I see where you're coming from, but every topic will be revisited, and none of this is "necessary". You should try going a year with no new info. Or two years between announcement and first trailer.

Personally I'd rather talk about cuts than Captain Toad and his ****ing backpack. :p
 

mario123007

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Last post on Pyra's outfit in Smash I swear.
The E-10+ rating for Smash 4 did note some of the mildly suggestive trophies as part of the game's review.

Other than the removed Tharja trophy, this is basically the skimpiest I found, but Krystal's shows more cleavage.
And again, if it wasn't ESRB leak, we wouldn't even know she exists in the game once, which is very odd but also something to put out.

And this is coming from someone who does think there's as good a chance as ever that we actually won't get cuts this time due to Smash Switch being some mid-step kinda thing.
This also makes me wonder a lot of things regarding the roster and E3...

- will we get all of the original 8 or 12 announced and playable at E3?
- How many newcomer will be playable at E3?
- Will get some sneak peak around April or even a direct? Or even nothing at all?
- How will Smash Switch appeal those those competitive Smash Bros players? Will we receive a exclusive GameCube controller for Smash Switch?

There is.. Just too many questions popping up after the March Direct and after this Smash Bros Invitational announcement. And despite I am looking forward to this game I also think Nintendo does have a chance if screwing this up by stating this is an enhanced version...
 

ColietheGoalie

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Be real people. At this point we have like, 20 seconds worth of silhouettes with a choir in the background to go on for Smash 5. Topics are going to come up in speculation quite a bit until there’s more :p
 

Knight Dude

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Be real people. At this point we have like, 20 seconds worth of silhouettes with a choir in the background to go on for Smash 5. Topics are going to come up in speculation quite a bit until there’s more :p
That much is true, but I'm still surprised they there's a whole page wondering if a character is allowed to jump.

If I had to come up with a new topic, aside from specific characters, what kind of playstyles do you want to see in Smash?

I'd like to have a more realized grappler. Ganon is the closest, since he has his Side-B and Up-B. But I feel like the idea can be pushed further.
 

God Robert's Cousin

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The voice of reason amidst the discussion of cuts. Thank you, N3ON.

As for characters I think could be cut, I'd narrow it down to several categories. The more of these categories a character shows up in, the more likely they are to be lower priority in development in getting into the base roster:

Technically Multiple Characters: :4miibrawl: :4miigun: :4miisword:
Clones: :4darkpit: :4lucina: :4drmario: :4feroy:
Nearly Cut In The Past: :4ness: :4bowserjr: :4jigglypuff: :4tlink:
Previously Cut Veterans: :4drmario: :4lucas: :4mewtwo: :4feroy:
Smash 4 DLC Newcomers: :4bayonetta: :4cloud: :4corrinf: :4ryu:
Potential Flavor-of-the-Month: :4greninja: :4robinm: :4corrinf: :4lucina:
Third-Parties: :4bayonetta: :4cloud: :4megaman: :4pacman: :4ryu: :4sonic:

Among the characters that show up twice, Bayonetta, Cloud and Ryu were all third-parties that came out as DLC and might not get renewed for future appearances (depending on how differently DLC royalties are from base-game ones); Corrin was DLC that was very likely only added due to their current relevance; Roy and Dr. Mario are clones that have been cut from Super Smash Bros. Melee meaning they've never had the same ability to be a "lock" the way most other veterans are; and Lucina is a clone that may or may not also lean on recency or even end up being reverted to alternate costume status.

I still personally hold caution over several others as well. Greninja absolutely relied on its recency as a representative of Generation VI and might be dropped the way Pokemon has seen more drops than any other series. Robin might be under the same lense, though I believe he stands with his own merit more so than Greninja might have. Lucas, as much as I love the boy, never really had a reason to be cut in the first place compared to Ice Climber's 3DS limitations, Snake's third-party contract renegotiation, and Wolf's last-minute status in Brawl. If he was dropped before in spite of nothing really holding him back as a veteran, he may be left to being DLC yet again. All of the same of Lucas could be said of Mewtwo as well. Dark Pit is a clone of Pit and might not return if the base roster isn't in the market for alternate-costumes turned last-minute clones. Finally, the Mii Fighters definitely required a large amount of resources to create, relying entirely on having three separate character-types, completely unique custom moves, Mii functionality, and the plethora of fighter costumes. If they weren't prioritized over most everyone else above, they may or may not take too long to get into the game to the same extent they were in Smash 4.

In summary, I'd only be absolutely shocked over a cut if it's not one of the following characters:
Bayonetta
Cloud
Ryu
Corrin
Roy
Dr. Mario
Lucina
Greninja
Robin
Lucas
Mewtwo
Dark Pit
Mii Fighters

I think that otherwise wraps up the potential cuts in this game, unless someone else suddenly suffers the same anomaly in priority the way Lucas did in Smash 4. I'm sure most characters here would return as DLC if cut, if they weren't already DLC to begin with.
 
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Retroend

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Objectively speaking I think based on :4charizard::4mewtwo: being the poster children for Mega Evolution

And :4greninja: being the start of something new perhaps with Battle Bond in Sun and Moon.

I'm not really seeing why shouldn't:4lucario: be cut for the 8th gen starter or Pokemon they might be adding.

They seem married to this six pokemon in the roster thing to reflect how many pokemon one has on a team in the games so, yeah. I'm not really sure the count will ever go beyond six.
i dont see a valuable reason of why pokemon couldn't have a roster of 7 characters. i think its an insignificant thing to worry about.
 

Superyoshiom

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I miss the days where we'd talk about equal representation and how people thought Sakurai wouldn't even even add in Palutena to avoid being biased.

It was a simpler time.
 

Retroend

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I think what could be a more constructive, and less toxic argument, in regards to what may or may not return in this Smash game is: which stages could you see returning or being cut for this game?

Obviously we will get this games version of Battlefield and Final Destination, but from the WiiU stage selection I could definitely see Temple return as well as most of the DLC stages, aside from Miiverse (rest in peace you meme filled mess).
they better bring back magicant and put it in HD glory or i will riot.
 

Morbi

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The voice of reason amidst the discussion of cuts. Thank you, N3ON.

As for characters I think could be cut, I'd narrow it down to several categories. The more of these categories a character shows up in, the more likely they are to be lower priority in development in getting into the base roster:

Technically Multiple Characters: :4miibrawl: :4miigun: :4miisword:
Clones: :4darkpit: :4lucina: :4drmario: :4feroy:
Nearly Cut In The Past: :4ness: :4bowserjr: :4jigglypuff: :4tlink:
Previously Cut Veterans: :4drmario: :4lucas: :4mewtwo: :4feroy:
Smash 4 DLC Newcomers: :4bayonetta: :4cloud: :4corrinf: :4ryu:
Potential Flavor-of-the-Month: :4greninja: :4robinm: :4corrinf: :4lucina:
Third-Parties: :4bayonetta: :4cloud: :4megaman: :4pacman: :4ryu: :4sonic:

Among the characters that show up twice, Bayonetta, Cloud and Ryu were all third-parties that came out as DLC and might not get renewed for future appearances (depending on how differently DLC royalties are from base-game ones); Corrin was DLC that was very likely only added due to their current relevance; Roy and Dr. Mario are clones that have been cut from Super Smash Bros. Melee meaning they've never had the same ability to be a "lock" the way most other veterans are; and Lucina is a clone that may or may not also lean on recency or even end up being reverted to alternate costume status.

I still personally hold caution over several others as well. Greninja absolutely relied on its recency as a representative of Generation VI and might be dropped the way Pokemon has seen more drops than any other series. Robin might be under the same lense, though I believe he stands with his own merit more so than Greninja might have. Lucas, as much as I love the boy, never really had a reason to be cut in the first place compared to Ice Climber's 3DS limitations, Snake's third-party contract renegotiation, and Wolf's last-minute status in Brawl. If he was dropped before in spite of nothing really holding him back as a veteran, he may be left to being DLC yet again. Dark Pit is a clone of Pit and might not return if the base roster isn't in the market for alternate-costumes turned last-minute clones. Finally, the Mii Fighters definitely required a large amount of resources to create, relying entirely on having three separate character-types, completely unique custom moves, Mii functionality, and the plethora of fighter costumes. If they weren't prioritized over most everyone else above, they may or may not take too long to get into the game to the same extent they were in Smash 4.

In summary, I'd only be absolutely shocked over a cut if it's not one of the following characters:
Bayonetta
Cloud
Ryu
Corrin
Roy
Dr. Mario
Lucina
Greninja
Robin
Lucas
Dark Pit
Mii Fighters

I think that otherwise wraps up the potential cuts in this game, unless someone else suddenly suffers the same anomaly in priority the way Lucas did in Smash 4. I'm sure most characters here would return as DLC if cut, if they weren't already DLC to begin with.
You sort of mentioned it; however, hypothetically Wolf and Ice Climbers might not return. I suppose that does not count as a cut as they missed the roster, but as the roster is decided based on priority, that is technically what caught Mewtwo the second time in a row and therefore the same might happen for Wolf, specifically. I believe he is specifically worth mentioning because of how relevant his omission was. At the very least he is probably low priority again, as Mewtwo was at least 3 times, presumably all 4, to be real, but he just happened to appear in Melee. We all know he is on the shortlist this time around, but he was passed once before and characters such as Roy and Lucas were above him.

Other than that, Pokemon Trainer was "cut" and yet Charizard remained, it is entirely feasible something similar will happen with the Mii Fighters... Not that I want it to. Also, if this game was developed right around the DLC, I see no reason why their negotiation would not include Smash Switch. So, in a weird way, the third-party characters might be among the safest. Except for perhaps Cloud as Sakurai alluded to difficulties with him.

Last, but certainly not least. People are pretending as though Mewtwo is safe when he was cut three times. I am sorry, but that is ludicrous. I do not care about his demand. He has ALWAYS been extremely popular. And yet, here we are. I doubt DLC sales were what Nintendo needed to be convinced that Mewtwo was important. Unless you perceive it from the more malicious lens. They intentionally put him lower priority in Smash 4 because the DLC net would catch him AND make them quite a lot of money. Who knows? All I know is that the precedent is surprisingly staggering to the extent that I feel as though Greninja might genuinely be safe over him as I am not expecting two independent cuts to rival the double cut that was Pokemon Trainer. Conventional wisdom would definitely indicate otherwise, but just looking at the facts alone, and that is objective truth.

Beyond that, and I know this is a sensitive subject, but if Greninja or the Awakening leads are flavor of the month, there is no way Shulk is not. I understand that people seem to believe that the first in the series is untouchable, even though, as you pointed out NESS HIMSELF was up for removal. But whatever, I guess it is fair to overlook it because he looks damned good in his underoos. Oh, and a minor technicality, Toon Link is definitely a clone. Not that I believe it increases the chance of his cut, which is why the premise for your list is a bit... Questionable. Just figured I would throw it out there given you put him elsewhere on your list (I am guessing we are leaving characters such as Ganondorf alone for... Some arbitrary reason).
 

Retroend

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i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1. ridley
2. isaac
3. king k rool
4. hades
5. decidueye
 

NintenRob

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i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1. ridley
2. isaac
3. king k rool
4. hades
5. decidueye
1. Skull Kid
2. Bandana Dee
3. Ridley
4. Rex & Pyra
5. King Boo
 

Radical Bones

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i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1. ridley
2. isaac
3. king k rool
4. hades
5. decidueye
1. Dixie Kong
2. King K.Rool
3. Captain Toad
4. Mimikyu
5. Excitebiker
 

Danpal65

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i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1. ridley
2. isaac
3. king k rool
4. hades
5. decidueye
1. Ridley
2. Rex & Pyra
3. Shovel Knight (or Dixie if it has to be strictly Nintendo)
4. Isabelle
5. Bandana Dee

I would like to add BotW Link and Zelda because I think they could very well be a new character in the sense I think they will have a new moveset, but I think the above list works otherwise :)
 
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Diddy Kong

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I made a poll for a few unlikely characters, some of which I haven't ever seen requested.
Click Here to vote.

Tell your friends!
Why is King K.Rool unlikely? Same with Funky Kong and Lyn?

All of these are far more popular and requested than Bowyer, Felicia, and almost all the other choice. :rolleyes:

Also, since we doing Top 5's again.

1. King K.Rool
2. Isaac
3. Impa
4. Dixie Kong
5. Banjo-Kazooie
 
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DutchPichu

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My top 5:

1. Chorus Men (or any other Rhythm Heaven character actually)
2. Spring Man
3. Decidueye
4. Dixie Kong
5. Banjo & Kazooie

I actually don't like third parties. I think Super Smash Bros. should stay Nintendo exclusive. In my dreams, I see Pac-Man, Mega Man, Ryu, Sonic, Bayonetta and Cloud all getting cut. That's never going to happen, I guess... However, the only third party character I would take is Banjo & Kazooie. In the N64 era, I saw him as a Nintendo character. I still see him as a Nintendo character actually. That's why B-K my only third party character is on this list.
 

viewtifulduck82

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The more I read this thread, the more I'm convinced nobody knows what port means.

There is 0 reason to think this is a port or "half step" of a game. There's this misconception of "it must be a port because its too soon" going around that I wish would disappear. The game has been in development for over/just about 2 years. That is literally the standard time it takes to make a BRAND NEW smash game. If this were an actual port, and production started in 2016, we'd already have this game.

Reusing assets does NOT make a game a port. Like at all. All previous smash games have reused assets. Does that make those ports too?

Like, if you're going to go with the port/half step idea, you're taking a larger reach than someone saying this is just a new game IMO.
 

Nonno Umby

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My top 5:

1: Elma
2: Rex and Pyra
3: Bandana Dee
4: King K. Rool
5: Captain Toad
 

Guybrush20X6

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I think a major change happened after Black and White's "whole new dex" thing did't work out as well as they hoped as beforehand Pokemon advertising was strictly limited to current gen Pokemon (and those in that gen's remake), Pikachu and, if he was lucky, Meowth. But come X&Y, they've been marketing Gen 1 Pokemon hard as they know there's nostalgia for them. Hence all the Mega Evolutions and Alola forms.

I wonder if such a thing will come back over to Smash. It kind of did when the pseudo-Gen 3 rep of Pokemon Trainer was reworked into Charizard, the Gen Wun-ieset of all Pokemon but I'm wondering things like:
  • Squirtle and Ivysaur returning
  • Blastoise reworking Squirtle's moveset as a heavyweight
  • Eevee getting a promotion (I'm thinking a very liberal interpretation of Extreme Eevoboost where the Eeveelutions help it out in non-standard attacks.)
  • Mewoth finally getting playable status (complete with speaking human)
  • More Kanto Pokeball Pokemon like Gastly, Nidoking or just brining back Zapdos and Articuno (seriously, Moltres was the single most boring one and it keeps coming back)
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Objectively speaking I think based on :4charizard::4mewtwo: being the poster children for Mega Evolution

And :4greninja: being the start of something new perhaps with Battle Bond in Sun and Moon.

I'm not really seeing why shouldn't:4lucario: be cut for the 8th gen starter or Pokemon they might be adding.

They seem married to this six pokemon in the roster thing to reflect how many pokemon one has on a team in the games so, yeah. I'm not really sure the count will ever go beyond six.
Brawl had Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard and Lucario with Mewtwo only being cut due to time constraints and Plusle and Minun possibly being scrapped characters. They ALMOST got a total of 8/9 different pokemon playable depending on how Plusle or Minun could have worked. So no, they aren't attatched to the '6 pokemon' thing
 

Mogu

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1. King K. Rool
2. Ridley
3. Decidueye
4. Bandana Dee
5. Travis Touchdown
 
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MasterOfKnees

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I think a major change happened after Black and White's "whole new dex" thing did't work out as well as they hoped as beforehand Pokemon advertising was strictly limited to current gen Pokemon (and those in that gen's remake), Pikachu and, if he was lucky, Meowth. But come X&Y, they've been marketing Gen 1 Pokemon hard as they know there's nostalgia for them. Hence all the Mega Evolutions and Alola forms.

I wonder if such a thing will come back over to Smash. It kind of did when the pseudo-Gen 3 rep of Pokemon Trainer was reworked into Charizard, the Gen Wun-ieset of all Pokemon but I'm wondering things like:
  • Squirtle and Ivysaur returning
  • Blastoise reworking Squirtle's moveset as a heavyweight
  • Eevee getting a promotion (I'm thinking a very liberal interpretation of Extreme Eevoboost where the Eeveelutions help it out in non-standard attacks.)
  • Mewoth finally getting playable status (complete with speaking human)
  • More Kanto Pokeball Pokemon like Gastly, Nidoking or just brining back Zapdos and Articuno (seriously, Moltres was the single most boring one and it keeps coming back)
I don't think we'll see more Gen I Pokémon being playable than the ones we already have, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Charizard and Mewtwo cover it pretty well. I'd say Charizard was a bit lucky that the transformation mechanic was scrapped, but at the same time he's probably been the most consistently popular Pokémon bar Pikachu, so he's also a character worth making an exception for, I don't think any other potential Gen I Pokémon can carry their weight as well.

We'll probably see some new Gen I representation in other areas, like Pokéball Pokémon or stage hazards, but I think most of it will be left to Gen 7 (or Gen 8, depends entirely on how far along it is, I think it's more likely it'll be present as DLC). It's true that they don't focus quite as much on just promoting the newest generation as they used to, but it's still a priority for Game Freak to first and foremost get the newest game out there, and I don't really see any Gen 1 Pokémon that have stepped up to the front row in recent years.

i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1. ridley
2. isaac
3. king k rool
4. hades
5. decidueye
1. Ridley
2. Ivysaur
3. Skull Kid
4. Porky
5. K. Rool
 
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Stratos

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Messages
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The most sure is probably that these characters will not appear, but if they were finally put on them, it would be a big surprise for me. This is the list of these characters:

Aisya (ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat)

Queen Azarel (Warlocked)

Chief Zog (Warlocked)

Kevin (Karkurenbo Battle Monster Tactics)

Tin Star (Tin Star)
 
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Cosmic77

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i dont see a valuable reason of why pokemon couldn't have a roster of 7 characters. i think its an insignificant thing to worry about.
Especially since Pokemon is one of Nintendo's biggest sellers. Even if you're not on board with 7+ Pokemon on the roster, can you really deny that the series doesn't deserve it?

Truthfully, if any franchise deserves to have a boatload of characters, it's gonna be Nintendo's big three (Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda). Since these franchises are more popular, there's a high chance people are going to recognize their characters. It's hard to make a case against an oversaturation of Mario or Pokemon characters when those games are literally the steam that helps Nintendo to stay the success it is today.

i wanna know what are your top 5 nintendo characters to be in smash 5. put from 1 to the most desired to 5 being the least desire.

1. ridley
2. isaac
3. king k rool
4. hades
5. decidueye
1. Ridley
2. Mipha
3. Lycanroc
4. Bandana Waddle Dee
5. Pauline/Cappy
 
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Guybrush20X6

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I will say above all else, if Ridley is not playable, then for the love of Palutena above, don't string things along Nintendo, just show his boss battle or assist trophy and let that be the end of it.
 

Danpal65

Smash Lord
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I will say above all else, if Ridley is not playable, then for the love of Palutena above, don't string things along Nintendo, just show his boss battle or assist trophy and let that be the end of it.
We had a shadow to go along with for months last time, watch it be an audio clip this time for us to over analyse and compare to the volume of other characters to see if it is too loud to be a playable character :dizzy:
 

Guybrush20X6

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We had a shadow to go along with for months last time, watch it be an audio clip this time for us to over analyse and compare to the volume of other characters to see if it is too loud to be a playable character :dizzy:
Don't forget the clouds from before that.
 

Chandeelure

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I will say above all else, if Ridley is not playable, then for the love of Palutena above, don't string things along Nintendo, just show his boss battle or assist trophy and let that be the end of it.
I mean, the shadow stuff was kinda ridiculous, but if he doesn't appear at all, it would not be dumb to think he could be DLC.

It's possible.
 

Yoshi-Thomas

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,420
Concerning the 5 characters, there are not many characters that I want left (Ridley and Rayman), but if I had to choose :

1.Ridley (Personnal favorite)
2.King K. Rool (a favorite in this community, so OK)
3.Bandana Dee (Christmas present for fans of the Dee)
4.Waluigi (I like this dude)
5.Mimikyu (Just give him love)
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Guys, this thread is not the ideal place to talk about your top five most wanted Nintendo characters.

Use the other thread to talk about your top ten most wanted newcomers or something. This is Smash Speculation. I will give a link to the other thread.
https://smashboards.com/threads/top-10-most-wanted-newcomers-for-smash-switch.453658/

Now lets drop the subject and talk about something else please.
I will say above all else, if Ridley is not playable, then for the love of Palutena above, don't string things along Nintendo, just show his boss battle or assist trophy and let that be the end of it.
I really do think Sakurai still believes that Ridley would not be "Ridley" if he went in. I personally think Ridley is going to be a boss or some kind of stage boss in my opinion, sorry guys.

If they do manage to get him in, that would be pretty good I guess. :p
 
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Cosmic77

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Guys, this thread is not the ideal place to talk about your top five most wanted Nintendo characters.

Use the other thread to talk about your top ten most wanted newcomers or something. This is Smash Speculation. I will give a link to the other thread.
https://smashboards.com/threads/top-10-most-wanted-newcomers-for-smash-switch.453658/

Now lets drop the subject and talk about something else please.

I really do think Sakurai still believes that Ridley would not be "Ridley" if he went in. I personally think Ridley is going to be a boss or some kind of stage boss in my opinion, sorry guys.

If they do manage to get him in, that would be pretty good I guess. :p
We're talking about the 5 characters we'd want most in Smash Switch.

I think it's still relevant to the thread's topic.
 
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We're talking about the 5 characters we'd want most in Smash Switch.

I think it's still relevant to the thread's topic.
The thread I mentioned is still the same idea. Top ten characters you would want to see in Super Smash Bros. for Switch.
In a way it is relevant, but just give that thread some attention. Also the subject should be changed into something else....
Lets talk about Ridley! :p
 
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