Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[OpticalBlast]

Can't access Twitter/See tweets at the moment, who does Mystic say he is confident is in? Also can we trust him?

Spoiler: Here you go

He has it split into Confirmed, Unconfirmed, and Deconfirmed sections.

CONFIRMED:
- Isaac and Geno should be in.
- 108 stages to coincide with newcomers and "other factors."
- Most newcomers in the leak are in, but something is contradictory
- Ken and Shadow should be in.
- Incineroar should be in.
- DLC characters are happening.

UNCONFIRMED:
- The leaked banner.
- Lloyd from ToS is a heavy contender for DLC.

DECONFIRMED:
- There shouldn't be Minecraft content.

CONTRADICTORY STUFF:
- Some of his sources say that there are only three character reveals left.
- "There are some oddities to the banner that were mentioned."

As for if we can trust him, I have no idea.

 

[Hinata]

Sure.

Honestly i'm just gonna spend the next day taking requests up to a certain point. Once i've got everyone I need i'll actually draw the thing.

You asked early, so you get to be in.

Noipoi, you and me were comrades in arms during the days of Ashley speculation. I humbly ask to be a part of your poster as well.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Sure.

Honestly i'm just gonna spend the next day taking requests up to a certain point. Once i've got everyone I need i'll actually draw the thing.

You asked early, so you get to be in.

I'll give you free vbucks and a pdf of the grinch

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Noipoi please don't feel pressured to include everyone in the season two poster. Just include who you want to include boo.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

Shower Thoughts: What if Sakurai decides to do the SF5 method with DLC characters

 

[xAquaCrystal]

Man as long as Shadow makes it in I'll be fine. I don't get why Mach Rider would miss out seeing as he was considered previously and matches up with the mech figure Sakurai bought, but I just need Shadow for this roster to completely satisfy me (hence why he's #1 on my wishlist).

I appreciate Mystic having the balls to come out with his information instead of being a smug prick like many other insiders have been acting the past few days.

Same as long Shadow is in then I’m fine. But I’m not going to lie I was welcoming Mach rider and the chorus kids out of curiosity of their movesets. To be fair to the chorus kids I heard they was cut in smash 4 I assume Sakurai would take the opportunity and put them in Ultimate but that’s assuming if they don’t make the cut.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I might go with a prediction

If the grinch leak is fake I think we will get 5 out of 7 regardless and the other 2 might be dlc later on

Ken
Shadow
Geno
Isaac
Mach rider

 

[SmashingXan2]

Ok, Inceneroar confuses me. What if he was cut due to time, but was almost finished? Like, they got far enough for a model, but time constraints stopped them from finishing him. Or he could be leak bait as almost every insider unanimously agree on him and him alone, which I find susoect.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Seriously though, if Chorus Kid are heavily rumored, only to not be in the game, a second time in a row, I will be very bummed...
This has already happened once, and I don't want it to happen again...

 

[Grippy_Toad]

https://imgtc.com/i/i9h3mDA.png

Tell 'ole Uncle Gruppy that ain't the bear and bird in the August Direct.

 

[Kirbunny431]

Best case scenario for everyone is that everyone is right; the leak is true but Incineroar is also playable in the base game and Nintendo sent out an incomplete banner for some baffling reason.

Although seven characters already feels like a stretch, and eight would be pure insanity.

 

[mbvswb]

uhhh what happened

 

[Potato_]

I think he's basically just saying that that matches up with what he knows. Basically, if he's saying that Ken and Shadow should be in, Incineroar should be in as well.

I think we could be looking at something that results in the banner characters being partially right, and Vergeben only being slightly wrong. It's going to be incredibly interesting from here on out, indeed.

There's the possibility that the banner itself is fake, but some of those characters ARE indeed in. (Taking both Mystic and other insiders comments on this).

Would explain why some insiders are so certain it's fake (missing others they know about for sure such as Incineroar, or includes characters they know aren't in), and others are indecisive (some characters match up with what they heard, but others don't).

Honestly Vergeben could still be totally right and yet not have every character, exactly like in the past. Reminder he had leaked none of the echoes or K.Rool.

 

[StrawHatX]

I still lean towards the leak being real, but regardless Isaac has been my most wanted character since the Brawl days. So I’m happy to hear an insider heard about him.

I still really want Banjo though. He’s been my second most wanted and that franchise really needs to be brought back.

Chorus Kids have to be in after getting scrapped from Smash 4. I cant see them not getting in again especially since Ultimate is built off that game. And I really want Mach Rider in now because I’ve been so interested to seeing how she would work.

 

[Hinata]

This will be the last thing I have to say on this whole ordeal.

The community has reached the point where they're using incorrect evidence to prove the leak is true. These image cuts and pixel colors are not evidence to the leak's legitimacy.. I will hold that opinion even should the leak be proven real.

The things that I have pointed out about the background are demonstrably true. Those discrepancies exist and you cannot argue them away. You can argue why they're there, in the same way you can argue why "disabled" was misspelled on the ESRB leak, and that is why I have never stated that it "proves" the leak false. Since Omni has offered this opinion himself, I'll reiterate it, because it's exactly the possible explanation for these discrepancies that I've had on the backburner myself. There is always the chance that the empty background was reverse engineered from the actual banner, because they were never sent the empty one. I consider it very unlikely, but the scenario exists if we operate under the belief that this company is responsible for designing these displays, and not just printing them. I have never claimed the background discrepancies prove the leak fake because I have always allowed for a situation, however unlikely in my mind, where they're present and it's still true.

I have further offered opinions that help the validity of the leak, only to have those ignored in favor of weaker arguments that I'm continually asked to restate my opinion on. People seem desperate to prove me wrong when I've offered supporting evidence wherever I saw it. I consider the fact that the banner has been proven to wrap cleanly around the cylinder to be good evidence in support of the leak. And yet, twice today I was tagged and linked to a post insisting the display isn't actually accurate at all as a counter to my arguments about the background, even though this itself would be a counter against the very evidence I gave that I believe helps the leak. I find this kind of thing immensely frustrating and it really just shows I'm wasting my time even trying to be neutral, because it's obvious that neutral still gets read as team fake.

People just think you're some be-all end-all authority when it comes to image discrepancies, so that's all they care about from you. Which isn't fair, because you have, as you said, a lot of other opinions on the leak, and those just get ignored in favor of "uhhhhh vaanrose said this thing is like this so leak's fake!!!! confirmed!!!!"

Honestly, I'd get frustrated as hell too. I don't blame you.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Sure.

Honestly i'm just gonna spend the next day taking requests up to a certain point. Once i've got everyone I need i'll actually draw the thing.

You asked early, so you get to be in.

Wait, is this like the group photo I made during the Smash 4 Leak Group times?

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

Tell 'ole Uncle Gruppy that ain't the bear and bird in the August Direct.

HOW THE **** DID I NOT NOTICE THIS UNTIL NOW

 

[Sergeant_Snivy]

I might go with a prediction

If the grinch leak is fake I think we will get 5 out of 7 regardless

Ken
Shadow
Geno
Isaac
Mach rider

5/7? So all of them?

 

[ItsZant]

Anyone mind telling me how reliable Mystic Distance is? Don't wanna get too excited but I see people like Emily Rogers and Push Dustin follow him so he seems legit, the type to not tweet something like this if he was not very confident.

 

[moh18]

Just the possibility of Lloyd being DLC makes me excited.

 

[Pyra]

This will be the last thing I have to say on this whole ordeal.

The community has reached the point where they're using incorrect evidence to prove the leak is true. These image cuts and pixel colors are not evidence to the leak's legitimacy.. I will hold that opinion even should the leak be proven real.

The things that I have pointed out about the background are demonstrably true. Those discrepancies exist and you cannot argue them away. You can argue why they're there, in the same way you can argue why "disabled" was misspelled on the ESRB leak, and that is why I have never stated that it "proves" the leak false. Since Omni has offered this opinion himself, I'll reiterate it, because it's exactly the possible explanation for these discrepancies that I've had on the backburner myself. There is always the chance that the empty background was reverse engineered from the actual banner, because they were never sent the empty one. I consider it very unlikely, but the scenario exists if we operate under the belief that this company is responsible for designing these displays, and not just printing them. I have never claimed the background discrepancies prove the leak fake because I have always allowed for a situation, however unlikely in my mind, where they're present and it's still true.

I have further offered opinions that help the validity of the leak, only to have those ignored in favor of weaker arguments that I'm continually asked to restate my opinion on. People seem desperate to prove me wrong when I've offered supporting evidence wherever I saw it. I consider the fact that the banner has been proven to wrap cleanly around the cylinder to be good evidence in support of the leak. And yet, twice today I was tagged and linked to a post insisting the display isn't actually accurate at all as a counter to my arguments about the background, even though this itself would be a counter against the very evidence I gave that I believe helps the leak. I find this kind of thing immensely frustrating and it really just shows I'm wasting my time even trying to be neutral, because it's obvious that neutral still gets read as team fake.

Godspeed, my man.

I'll stay here and keep alternating between ****posting and participating.
I think you've done more than enough to help the conversation.

 

[Shroob]

If we count the Mii Fighters as 3, then I think we end up with 81 (assuming the leak is real). Nintendo could reasonably advertise "Over 80 characters!" in that case.

Nope, I'm factoring in Mii Fighters into there. It's still 79, and considering they count Pokemon Trainer as 1 in regards to marketing(It's weird, I know), marketing this as "79 CHARACTERS!" just doesn't roll off the tongue as cleanly as "80 CHARACTERS!"

 

[Hinata]

Noipoi please don't feel pressured to include everyone in the season two poster. Just include who you want to include boo.

This is true, don't strain yourself to include EVERYONE who asks. That's just askin' for a bad time.

 

[Whia]

Apologies if this has been addressed, but, how reliable is Mystic?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Who would have guessed that maybe, just maybe, some of the insiders a ton of people doubted might have known some of the characters in the banner leak are in, but some may not be, or may be missing?

Think about this folks. I don't think anybody cares nearly as much that they're right about this being correct as they are about the ****ing characters being in the game.

If Spooky is anyone to go off of, which I hope he is, then everybody should take yet another deep breath (like I said to earlier) and stop taking this banner so seriously. This still has potential to be the greatest roster in gaming history, and that's BEFORE DLC!

Let's not lump me into this, I'm largely rational about the banner.

That being said...eeeeeeeeeeee.

Don't want to set myself up for disappointment though, first things first, I have to see that Direct before assuming anything else.

I'll take Lloyd because, hey, Tales of Symphonia (the Tales series in general) is awesome.

But secondly and more importantly?

I know Fighting of the Spirit originated in Phantasia, but Symphonia used it too dangit.

Poor Phantasia, completely overshadowed by its younger sibling Symphonia, thanks to a mishandled GBA port.

 

[Noipoi]

Once again i've opened the floodgates. What can I say? I'm a sucker for pain.

I'll take everyone's requests into consideration, but I want to make this clear.

You will only be added if I can make it work.

I still want it to look like a competent image, after all.

With that said, don't be afraid to ask to be in the poster. It actually gives me ideas on what to draw. I can't promise everyone will be in it, unfortunately.

And don't worry about me, I want to do this. It's fun!

 

[TheAJJohnson]

Man as long as Shadow makes it in I'll be fine. I don't get why Mach Rider would miss out seeing as he was considered previously and matches up with the mech figure Sakurai bought, but I just need Shadow for this roster to completely satisfy me (hence why he's #1 on my wishlist).

I appreciate Mystic having the balls to come out with his information instead of being a smug prick like many other insiders have been acting the past few days.

What info?

 

[TheCJBrine]

If each of the next 5 stages coincide with one newcomer for each, then perhaps the leak is actually true if Mystic is correct...?

Unless we get different newcomers instead I guess...

 

[Xiaolinspiration]

Unlike Takamaru, a Rhythm Heaven character was actually worked on, and they wouldn't be cut for obscurity like Takamaru was.

Taking that most of the newcomers we're Mii Costumes (Takamaru was one of them), I am surprised by this. Besides, can't say about obscurity since back then in Melee NO ONE besides a few people knew who Marth and Roy we're and they we're from a once obscure series.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Seriously though, if Chorus Kid are heavily rumored, only to not be in the game, a second time in a row, I will be very bummed...
This has already happened once, and I don't want it to happen again...

I wouldn't worry too much, as they ARE in the Grinch leak obviously, but then Mystic's saying some of the characters could potentially be DLC, one of which could very well be Chorus Kids/Glee Club.

I think they're fine.

 

[N3ON]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The leak is gonna do me in before anything even gets confirmed.

 

[drag0nscythe]

*desperately clicking leave match as fast as possible*

And with that note, people need to return to Team Box. 2 more to go, Ken and Inciniroar are awesome. The CSS looks great and the game is out in a month. We are all going good.

And with DLC in the future, we are good to go for some time.

 

[RyuhoFox]

What about me? Am I on the poster?

There's going to be a poster? Can I be on it? I expect not and don't even know what it's for but can't hurt to ask I think

 

[Gameboi834]

I can't wait for Friday to roll along and the blog is just like "NEWCOMER APPROACHING! Welcome the newest member of the Smash Bros. family, Goomba from the Mario series!"

 

[KMDP]

It goes without saying that Mystic DID NOT deconfirm Banjo, Mach Rider, or the Chorus Kids. He just couldn't confirm them. When says "most of the characters are real", it's obvious he's talking about all the ones he can confirm, while the ones he can't are left unconfirmed. If he felt that any of those three were fake he would've said so. The contradiction of the leak can easily be something else.

It's going to be crazy if people say "really, all these characters in a single direct?" and then...

Next direct starts with a single Isaac trailer... Sakurai comes in and explains certain things about the character (and the content he brings, like he did for Simon).

And then...

One BIG trailer confirming many characters at once.

It can happen.

The one thing is that Banjo, most assuredly, would also need his own trailer and new content segment, but I feel it's possible that Chorus Kids, Mach Rider, Geno and Incineroar wouldn't bring anything with them besides music, and just be characters in of themselves like Ness and Captain Falcon in 64 and R.O.B. since Brawl. Ken and Shadow are also characters who are very likely to just be introduced as characters and nothing more.

I think he's basically just saying that that matches up with what he knows. Basically, if he's saying that Ken and Shadow should be in, Incineroar should be in as well.

I think we could be looking at something that results in the banner characters being partially right, and Vergeben only being slightly wrong. It's going to be incredibly interesting from here on out, indeed.

The way I understood it, he just meant the Grinch leak is accurate in regard to Ken and Shadow (as well as Isaac and Geno).

That's what I thought.

This will be the last thing I have to say on this whole ordeal.

The community has reached the point where they're using incorrect evidence to prove the leak is true. These image cuts and pixel colors are not evidence to the leak's legitimacy.. I will hold that opinion even should the leak be proven real.

The things that I have pointed out about the background are demonstrably true. Those discrepancies exist and you cannot argue them away. You can argue why they're there, in the same way you can argue why "disabled" was misspelled on the ESRB leak, and that is why I have never stated that it "proves" the leak false. Since Omni has offered this opinion himself, I'll reiterate it, because it's exactly the possible explanation for these discrepancies that I've had on the backburner myself. There is always the chance that the empty background was reverse engineered from the actual banner, because they were never sent the empty one. I consider it very unlikely, but the scenario exists if we operate under the belief that this company is responsible for designing these displays, and not just printing them. I have never claimed the background discrepancies prove the leak fake because I have always allowed for a situation, however unlikely in my mind, where they're present and it's still true.

Yeah, I really want Isaac, but the Little Mac/Olimar cut-off glitch means literally nothing regarding his presence (I am 100% willing to think that that is just one big coincidence, green dot and all).

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

This will be the last thing I have to say on this whole ordeal.

The community has reached the point where they're using incorrect evidence to prove the leak is true. These image cuts and pixel colors are not evidence to the leak's legitimacy.. I will hold that opinion even should the leak be proven real.

The things that I have pointed out about the background are demonstrably true. Those discrepancies exist and you cannot argue them away. You can argue why they're there, in the same way you can argue why "disabled" was misspelled on the ESRB leak, and that is why I have never stated that it "proves" the leak false. Since Omni has offered this opinion himself, I'll reiterate it, because it's exactly the possible explanation for these discrepancies that I've had on the backburner myself. There is always the chance that the empty background was reverse engineered from the actual banner, because they were never sent the empty one. I consider it very unlikely, but the scenario exists if we operate under the belief that this company is responsible for designing these displays, and not just printing them. I have never claimed the background discrepancies prove the leak fake because I have always allowed for a situation, however unlikely in my mind, where they're present and it's still true.

I have further offered opinions that help the validity of the leak, only to have those ignored in favor of weaker arguments that I'm continually asked to restate my opinion on. People seem desperate to prove me wrong when I've offered supporting evidence wherever I saw it. I consider the fact that the banner has been proven to wrap cleanly around the cylinder to be good evidence in support of the leak. And yet, twice today I was tagged and linked to a post insisting the display isn't actually accurate at all as a counter to my arguments about the background, even though this itself would be a counter against the very evidence I gave that I believe helps the leak. I find this kind of thing immensely frustrating and it really just shows I'm wasting my time even trying to be neutral, because it's obvious that neutral still gets read as team fake.

Yea that’s the sad thing that history repeated itself anger and not listen to opinions

If it makes you feel better I did listen to your things and your opinions you gave are big reasons why I’m keeping my expectations at check for the grinch leak despite leaning toward real since I’m on neither side

 

[Untouch]

If each of the next 5 stages coincide with one newcomer for each, then perhaps the leak is actually true if Mystic is correct...?

Unless we get different newcomers instead I guess...

I feel a new Yoshi stage (to replace Wooly World) and a new Pokemon stage is likely personally.
Which means 3 new series, which goes with what they've been saying if Mincraft isn't getting a stage.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Once again i've opened the floodgates. What can I say? I'm a sucker for pain.

I'll take everyone's requests into consideration, but I want to make this clear.

You will only be added if I can make it work.

I still want it to look like a competent image, after all.

With that said, don't be afraid to ask to be in the poster. It actually gives me ideas on what to draw. I can't promise everyone will be in it, unfortunately.

And don't worry about me, I want to do this. It's fun!

Very cool! Thanks for the info! Hopefully I will be here too! :3

Hopefully many Smash users is here!

 

[Blargg888]

If we count the Mii Fighters as 3, then I think we end up with 81 (assuming the leak is real). Nintendo could reasonably advertise "Over 80 characters!" in that case.

IIRC, Mii fighters are already counted as 3 in that count, so it really would end up at "79"

 

[Chrono.]

Wait, is this like the group photo I made during the Smash 4 Leak Group times?

I remember.

I love how my avatar at the time was bara Azumarill, and thus, was the one on the group photo.