Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jakenimbus]

But Incineroar being leak bait is still kinda dumb...
Pokemon is the biggest media franchise in the world...
Why would they not add one to this game?

Maybe because of how many Pokémon are already in the game plus the fact that Pokémon are featured as a pokeball item. Fire emblem only got an echo this time around and they have a bunch of fighters in the game just like Pokémon. I think Sakuri wanted to switch things up a bit and add some more charcters from different franchises instead of prioritizing another Pokémon rep which we already have I believe 8 of. (Counting each of Pokémon trainer’s Pokemon as sepertae Pokémon)

 

[Spinosaurus]

One reason is because it would literally blow insiders back.

Let’s say Incenroar was never in to begin with.

Why would you tell people he’s in? They know the game is leaked with images every time.

So how do you get insiders to do your work for you and cover a leak up? You make sure they are convinced a character is in the game that isn’t and wouldn’t show up when the game actually leaks.

That leaves insiders confused and their cocky egos will make them say it’s fake.

The exact effect we could be seeing here.

This is some elaborate galaxy brain scheme. I dig it.

 

[Mehdow]

Hey can you tell me what this is? I don’t know what it means because I’m a little dumb:/
View attachment 172844

I just saw this in the Banjo thread......what's the "song list leak" this user is talking about? I'm missing something?

So, nothing happened / no new info in the last 12 hours?

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't buy Incineroar being leak bait for a couple of reasons, but one thing that bothers me is that y'all are really undermining insiders here.

They're not dumb, they're plenty experienced with picking out the fake stuff. It'd be one thing if it's one or two, but we're talking tens of them. I don't know what it is, but I'm fairly confident there's a good reason why they all reached a conclusion that Incineroar is in.

I'd sooner believe that the big cat was just outright cut, but even that I think they'd take into consideration.

I know it's probably not wise to invest a lot of faith in what these so-called insiders say, but the fact that there's so many of them outright saying it's fake and alluding to Incineroar's absence makes me think they've seen solid undeniable evidence (like video footage) of Incineroar in Ultimate.

I'm still leaning towards fake, regardless of how impressive this leak is.

 

[CaptainCC]

I wonder if, behind the scenes, Nintendo has an official disinformation campaign it has been fanning out to confuse the Smash Hype and keep everyone guessing. A smokescreen that includes Incineroar and maybe other information or lack of information that leads Nintendo Life and GameExplain not to believe the leak. If the biggest channels don't report on this leak, then for Nintendo's marketing team, it's like it never happened since the general game consumer hasn't heard. Until Smash Hype season started ramping up, I was getting all my info from GameExplain, so if I wasn't as hyped for Ultimate, I wouldn't know 80% of the story regarding this leak.

I'm skeptical of my own post because it sounds too Alex Jones, but I'm astonished that otherwise rational people seem to be willfully denying the reality of nigh incontrovertible circumstantial evidence in this leak. It's also fishy that, in most cases, they aren't telling us why they think it's fake but saying they are certain. That tells me it's info from the horse's mouth and therefore that it would seriously compromise them to say so. They must know or think they know something to form a different rationale. Maybe whatever they think about this leak is easier to believe as an "insider" than as a fan on the forums.

 

[Jess. Alakasam]

Did I miss anything in the past 8 hours?

 

[Spinosaurus]

Now imma just elaborate on something, I think Incineroar could very well not be real and insiders are wrong for whatever reason on this.

I just don't think leak bait is likely lol.

 

[TheBlue10]

Hey can you tell me what this is? I don’t know what it means because I’m a little dumb:/
View attachment 172844

Song list leak? When was that a thing?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Maybe because of how many Pokémon are already in the game plus the fact that Pokémon are featured as a pokeball item. Fire emblem only got an echo this time around and they have a bunch of fighters in the game just like Pokémon. I think Sakuri wanted to switch things up a bit and add some more charcters from different franchises instead of prioritizing another Pokémon rep which we already have I believe 8 of. (Counting each of Pokémon trainer’s Pokemon as sepertae Pokémon)

Still, Pokemon is the biggest media franchise in the world and the second best selling game series...
9 is not enough for a franchise this massive
Y'all are making dumb excuses...
Incineroar is in the game. Period.

 

[Jakenimbus]

Sakurai has already said that he doesn't plan DLC until the game has gone gold, the rumour of Incineroar being in has existed since the game was revealed.
I really doubt he's DLC...

Maybe he could be in as a pokeball Pokémon or a boss in the single player mode, and Sakuri has been baiting us into thinking he was a playable fighter to distract us from stuff like the grinch leak so we would be pleasantly surprised. It also serves as a double entendre to catch people leaking out details about the game.

 

[Wyoming]

Sakurai has already said that he doesn't plan DLC until the game has gone gold, the rumour of Incineroar being in has existed since the game was revealed.
I really doubt he's DLC...

Has he said that for Ultimate? I know he stated as such for Smash 4 but this is a different situation altogether:

1. They're on a console that is only going to get more and more sales, rather than the sinking ship that was Wii U. The Switch still has years to go. This means a higher install base which equals more profits in the long-term.

2. They know how well extra content sold last time out. Nintendo won't exactly deny themselves money.

While I truly believe Sakurai and his team won't be holding off characters as on-disc DLC, I do believe they've started to shortlist and perhaps develop one or two for DLC in spring 2019.

 

[RileyXY1]

Still, Pokemon is the biggest media franchise in the world and the second best selling game series...
9 is not enough for a franchise this massive
Y'all are making dumb excuses...
Incineroar is in the game. Period.

Mario only has 8 characters and it's one of the most iconic game franchises ever.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

Morning folks,anything new?

 

[Paperchampion23]

Morning folks,anything new?

Nada. It's easier to just ask when the direct is at this point

 

[Jess. Alakasam]

Mario only has 8 characters and it's one of the most iconic game franchises ever.

Yes, but we literally only have 1/100th of the Pokemon in Smash. Mario is already running out of notable characters to be added (the only important ones remaining are really Waluigi and Captain Toad)

 

[TheBlue10]

Morning folks,anything new?

Not really.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

I'm sticking with this avatar because it's pretty cool with a capital C.

So, let's say we're getting 10 DLC characters. What combination of 10 characters would make this the Ultimate Smash Bros. game for you?

For the sake of constancy, let's assume Grinch leak is real and Incineroar is also in.

Here's mine:

• Sora
• Lloyd Irving
• Joker
• Paper Mario
• Bandana Dee
• Euden
• Crash Bandicoot
• Rex and Pyra
• Capcom Rep (Either Phoenix Wright, Monster Hunter, Dante, or all of the above)
• Bethesda Rep (Either Doom Guy or a Fallout character)

I'll extend it to 15:

• Spring Man/Ribbon Girl
• 2B
• Ryu Hayabusa
• New Nintendo IP character
• Edelgard

Done:

• Boshi, Paper Mario or Fawful
• Heihachi, Lloyd or Agumon
• Eggman or Metal Sonic
• Marx
• Bandana Dee or Magolor
• Dixie or Funky
• Crash Bandicoot
• Rex and Pyra
• Monster Hunter
• Spring Man/Ribbon Girl

If extended to 15

• Doom Guy
• Skull Kid
• Rayman
• New Nintendo IP character
• A non Sonic Sega rep.

 

[RileyXY1]

Yes, but we literally only have 1/100th of the Pokemon in Smash. Mario is already running out of notable characters to be added (the only important ones remaining are really Waluigi and Captain Toad)

But it doesn't mean that Pokemon should have a boatload of reps. There are limits to how much a series can be represented in Smash. Fire Emblem learned that the hard way.

 

[Untouch]

Has he said that for Ultimate? I know he stated as such for Smash 4 but this is a different situation altogether:

1. They're on a console that is only going to get more and more sales, rather than the sinking ship that was Wii U. The Switch still has years to go. This means a higher install base which equals more profits in the long-term.

2. They know how well extra content sold last time out. Nintendo won't exactly deny themselves money.

While I truly believe Sakurai and his team won't be holding off characters as on-disc DLC, I do believe they've started to shortlist and perhaps develop one or two for DLC in spring 2019.

In one of the ComicCon interviews with Bill Trinen he said said DLC plans won't be known until the game is finished.
https://youtu.be/thehPvqow1I?t=445

 

[Tree Gelbman]

You have to remember Mario is also the only franchise in Smash Brothers that has two spin-offs in it thanks to Yoshi and Wario repping their own franchises. 3 if you count Dr Mario's presence despite him having the Mushroom Kingdom symbol.

Mario isn't exactly hurting for reps and like someone said Toad is really the only thing keeping it from feeling super complete. Waluigi would be nice though if you wanted a sports rep, but honestly you could probably put some sports stuff in Toad's moveset as well.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Just look at the reaction past E3. Remember for what people screamed...
The Frozen world? Or the Story stuff revealing the fate of a certain Characters?

Not that it takes anything away from your argument, but the few KH fans I know, who are definitely on the more casual gamer side, gave me the vibe that the Frozen world was the big news, because that was almost all they talked about. Obviously the KH faithful will care more about the core story, but I do think that the Disney aspect is why the series has been able to draw the casual audience in and push it to the point where it's one of Square's biggest IPs.

 

[Jakenimbus]

Still, Pokemon is the biggest media franchise in the world and the second best selling game series...
9 is not enough for a franchise this massive
Y'all are making dumb excuses...
Incineroar is in the game. Period.

And how would you know? Did Sakuri specifically come out and say that Incineroar is a lock? No. You are just assuming because you are relying on previous patterns. Listen bud, patterns change. Just because we have been getting a new Pokémon rep each game doesn’t mean we will get one this game. In terms of 9 not being enough, do you know how many fire emblem charcters exist? If Nintendo really wanted to they could probably add a lot more fire emblem into the game. Besides not every Pokémon gen is represented. Gen 5 doesn’t have a rep, so why does gen 8 need one? Why does the game need Incineroar? I mean we already have a bunch of Pokémon and he has some overlapping elements with other fighters. I think it is not very smart to be locking in Incineroar because if you do and he isn’t in the game, then you are gonna be very disappointed and embarrassed in the bad way.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

This is some elaborate galaxy brain scheme. I dig it.

"Siri, look up '200 IQ plays in Smash Bros.' please"

 

[Cosmic77]

Mario only has 8 characters and it's one of the most iconic game franchises ever.

I know it's technically 8, but you might as well include Wario and Yoshi in that number. They're more known for their association with Super Mario than their own respective franchises anyway.

Anyway, I don't think a tenth Pokemon is going overboard. There's plenty of unique characters with interesting movesets to choose from, and the franchise has the popularity to justify the addition. I doubt people will respond negatively to another Pokemon rep, or at least not as much as they did with FE in Smash 4.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Here’s the thing about incineroar though

When incineroar was first mentioned by Vergeben that was not fully confident on that pokemon

I think we would have never been saying incineroar because of Vergeben and Vergeben has gotten a lot wrong before and plus how do we know the pokemon rep source is the same one he got for simon

Or it could be a gemusatu situation and incineroar was cut during the development

And for dlc there’s a factor your not putting into consideration

Another ballot request is a gen 3 and 5 rep we want the missing reps filled in I think we might get a Pokémon of he missing reps for dlc to fulfil that request

 

[RileyXY1]

You have to remember Mario is also the only franchise in Smash Brothers that has two spin-offs in it. 3 if you count Dr Mario's presence despite him having the Mushroom Kingdom symbol.

Mario isn't exactly hurting for reps and like someone said Toad is really the only thing keeping it from feeling super complete. Waluigi would be nice though if you wanted a sports rep, but honestly you could probably put some sports stuff in Toad's moveset as well.

Wario is mostly detached from Mario and features a bunch of characters that you wouldn't consider Mario characters.

 

[Fortnite4Smash]

Sakurai has already said that he doesn't plan DLC until the game has gone gold, the rumour of Incineroar being in has existed since the game was revealed.
I really doubt he's DLC...

You mind linking a source or something?

 

[pholtos]

You're right, Pokemon should definitely have well over 10% of the total roster by itself, along with a bunch of additional pokemon in pokeballs.

9/74 => 12%.

Let's add some more, let's get it to 15%, or 20%.

 

[Untouch]

You mind linking a source or something?

https://youtu.be/thehPvqow1I?t=445

 

[RileyXY1]

Here’s the thing about incineroar though

When incineroar was first mentioned by Vergeben that was not fully confident on that pokemon

I think we would have never been saying incineroar because of Vergeben and Vergeben has gotten a lot wrong before and plus how do we know the pokemon rep source is the same one he got for simon

Or it could be a gemusatu situation and incineroar was cut during the development

And for dlc there’s a factor your not putting into consideration

Another ballot request is a gen 3 and 5 rep we want the missing reps filled in I think we might get a Pokémon of he missing reps for dlc to fulfil that request

If we're getting a DLC Pokemon then it's a Gen 8 mon. End of story.

 

[CallMeKnux]

I'm sticking with this avatar because it's pretty cool with a capital C.

So, let's say we're getting 10 DLC characters. What combination of 10 characters would make this the Ultimate Smash Bros. game for you?

• Dante (DMC)
• Doomguy (Doom)
• Masked Man (Mother 3)
• Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby)
• Rex and Pyra (Xenobalde 2)
• Andy (Advance Wars)
• Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
• 2B (NieR Automata)
• Akira Kurusu (Persona 5)
• Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes)

 

[Aerospherology]

We're really now talking about leaks, aren't we? So I made up this little game... https://en.shindanmaker.com/839759

Just type your name in, and copy to here the results.

Aerospherology has posted a single sentence on Gamexplain's channel, suggesting that Elsa will be playable in Smash Bros Ultimate. They also included Bill Trinen's Google search history as proof.

With my real name: [Real name] has posted a Snapchat video on Miiverse, suggesting that Despacito will be playable in Smash Bros Ultimate. They also included anonymous inside sources that are definitely real as proof.

 

[Nauzgo]

10 DLC characters that would make the game complete for me? Assuming Assist Trophies and Pokeball Pokemon aren't included:
1. Shantae
2. Rayman
3. Lola Pop
4. Agumon
5. Gardevoir
6. Feraligatr
7. Celica
8. Cordelia
9. Medusa
10. Bonk/Glover/Gunman Clive

Here are mine:

1. Dixie Kong
2. Bandana Dee
3. Skull Kid
4. Elma
5. Spring Man
6. Ray
7. Andy
8. Saki
9. Rayman
10. Crash Bandicoot

I could name a total of 20 characters though xD

 

[drag0nscythe]

Why's no one mentioning Goemon! The most deserving charcater.
I so wish that leak is not true. You guys don't know what you're missing.
Mystical Ninja for Smash.
Btw, how do I add an image to my signature? Thanks to who answers.
Edit: I mean uploading one. Doesn't seem to work :/

So, I hear you like Goemon. Come join the Goemon support thread.
https://smashboards.com/threads/mys...ar-in-a-video-game-so-why-not-smash-u.457287/

And yes. He is the best choice. I think since his chances for base roster have passed, HE HAS TO BE DLC!!! His only obstetrical was Bomberman.
And we need a trophy of the Goemon Crew, and one specifically for Impact.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Now imma just elaborate on something, I think Incineroar could very well not be real and insiders are wrong for whatever reason on this.

I just don't think leak bait is likely lol.

I think DaybreakHorizon gave an excellent reason for the leak bait argument being faulty. Why would Nintendo use a character for leak bait and then tell everyone--unless they're all getting it from the same source, which if they did I would highly question their journalistic practices, then it defeats the purpose of a leak bait, which is to catch specific sources of leaks.

That being said, I feel like the insiders could be right along with the image, so long as Incineroar isn't shown off before the other characters (a very convenient kill switch). Unless they give a more conclusive reason (e.g., a character is in the banner but not in the game), I'd rather not take their word fully on authority, as they may be using faulty assumptions. There's also the chance it was a cut character, or moved to DLC, and they have outdated information, but I consider that less likely, given their conviction.

All that having been said, as much as I think they did a disservice of escalating the situation by addressing the aggressive fans by being aggressive back (to everyone who believed in the leak, aggressive or not), I do take their consensus seriously, and is the last major hurdle against the banner, for right now. Just the convergence of evidence surrounding the image and its circumstances outweighs that consensus, as of right now, for me.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Wario is mostly detached from Mario and features a bunch of characters that you wouldn't consider Mario characters.

That doesn't matter though? I'm not saying Wario is purely a Mario character or his characters are Mario character, however he spun off of Mario and remains a staple of the Mario cast despite this.

The whole Mario universe as a whole extends to Donkey Kong even. So really as a universe it's not exactly hurting for reps. Even if some of those reps are big enough to represent their own things. Good for them.

 

[Untouch]

Gamefreak and Creatures Inc. bases some of their merchandising and marketing around Smash Bros.
They'll be shifting merchandising to LGPE and Gen 8 around the time DLC is out, so I find it pretty unlikely Incineroar is DLC. He could be cut, but leak bait and DLC seems unlikely to me.

That's just my opinion though.

 

[T!t!]

10 DLC picks?

These would be my picks:
1. Rex&Pyra
2. Springman/Ribbon Girl
3. Octoling (as an echo)
4. Dixie Kong
5. Dillon (from Dillon's Rolling Western)
6. Waddle Dee
7. Medusa (as an echo or a unique fighter)
8. Sora
9. Impa (as an echo)
10. Rayman

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

All this talk about the Grinch leak makes me want to hire the Photoshop experts that could make this leak in pfft five minutes. Where were you guys when I was starting my business last year?

 

[KingBroly]

Now imma just elaborate on something, I think Incineroar could very well not be real and insiders are wrong for whatever reason on this.

I just don't think leak bait is likely lol.

For leak bait, you either pick a super obvious character or a farfetched one. In a game where Ridley and K Rool made it in, the most likely leak bait would be an obvious choice, not a far out there one (within certain reason, obviously).