Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Luigi The President]

A trailer revealing two characters can be like a Chrom/Dark samus kind of things with Shadow/Ken

Or perhaps it's the Ken/Incineroar things that people guessed with the shared theme?

"UNIQUE" character trailer is the key word here

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I could certainly try.
There are way too many people here for me to do everybody, but i'll see who I can fit.

Whoever I draw will be drawn as the character in their profile pic, so if Elma's there it's supposed to be Rie Sonomura .
Now I just need to find an anime poster to parody...

How about Bobobo-Bo Bo-Bobo? One of the main promotional artworks seems nutty enough to use.

 

[Spinzilla]

chris redfield/jill valentine and frank west>monster hunter guy

I'd agree but MH cleans up in Japan and we know that's a big factor. (Looking at you fire emblem)

 

[Paperchampion23]

Agreed.

Wait, none at all? Not even a little bit?

So you're going to admit evidence that suggest the leak could be fake is real but still brush it under the rug anyway?

The background has changed before, outside of the leak lol

 

[VGPhaze]

To deny that there's a bias towards leaks with "favorable" characters is a bit ridiculous.

This sort of thing has happened throughout Smash history. DaybreakHorizon even provided a prime example; Tower of Smash was given spotlight treatment even though the only things it got explicitly right was the return of Onett (an easily predictable retro stage), and was kept alive even after getting not one, not two, but three consecutive stage names wrong. The third of which, wasn't even in the same ballpark.

Why was it so popular? Because it was a post-3DS release SSB4 leak that said Ridley could still be playable.

It's not even the only example of this happening. Have you heard of Miahstorm? The leak that was popularized after the fall of Gematsu? It wasn't even the only one that said Chrom wasn't playable prior to his disconfirmation, but picked up traction over its direct rival; why? Because it said Ridley and K. Rool were in, whereas its rival said both were "playable in a boss battle mode".

Even the ESRB leak, the one everyone and their mothers are comparing the Grinch leak to, is an example of a leak getting treatment that coincided with the characters it implicated. Most of the community was thoroughly convinced it was fake even though it had much, much more to it than the Grinch leak. It also just so happened to disconfirm every single remaining community favorite with the sole exception of Shulk.

It's hard to write all of this off as a mere coincidence.

I've been leeeeaaaaning towards team real the whole time (although I still consider myself closer to 50/50) but I have to admit that this is a very good point.

 

[KMDP]

If "text leaks" don't suffice as a basis for comparison, there's the ESRB leak.

It had far more compelling evidence, clearer images, and any hole punched through it ended up turning into evidence to support it.

It was still deemed fake by the majority. What's the big difference between Grinch and ESRB? The Grinch leak confirms three major community favorites. The ESRB leak disconfirmed all of them except Shulk, who had middling demand if anything.

You know you could use that exact argument to argue why the Grinch leak is real, right?

"Any hole punched through it ended up turning into evidence to support it."
This is almost exactly what's happening right now.

 

[IMainKingKRool]

gonna be a hard disagree with your disagreement, friend
not saying he doesn't deserve to get in but if we're talking another capcom guest, i'd personally rather see them make it

no problem with that, i just have absolutely no connection to resident evil or dead rising so i could care less about its characters, but i've played a buttload of mh so i'd love to see them in
though rathalos is enough for me reasonably speaking so i wouldn't be mad about chris/jill or frank either

 

[lightdrago]

"UNIQUE" character trailer is the key word here

Unique character trailer yes, but not two unique characters. If what he says is true, it could be a unique and an echo, couldn't it?

 

[Chrollo.]

"unique character trailer revealing two characters" Well what the hell is this lol. It also confirms some characters are in. As in, one of...
Geno, Isaac, Banjo-Kazooie, Mach Rider, Chorus Kids, Shadow, and Ken. But the "some characterS" implies more than Ken are in. What is going on lol, even if this is fake some ****'s going down

Also I big love Urbosa and Twintelle. Them being women of color just adds to the awesomeness of them being in. Would be ecstatic!

Honestly I think the character revealing two unique characters may be Chrous Kids and Mach Rider, if true I mean. Mach Rider, while cool, isn’t known enough to hold their own trailer while Chorus Kids are still a niche pick despite Rhythm Heaven’s popularity in Japan.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

>tfw you were willing to support box theory because it fit all the evidence at the time, but now that you’re a Grunch supporter you’re deservedly lumped into the group DaybreakHorizon can’t stand

I’m gonna have to revoke one of my earlier statements, discussion is starting to get a little toxic around here.

I wish I had time to participate more on the discussion, or the skill sets to look into the leak. All I can contribute is a strong gut feeling, I admit that.

I’d like to think I’ve been transparent this whole time, the characters that would make me freak would be Dee, Hades, Amaterasu, and Travis. I’m not supporting this leak because it’s favorable to me in any way.

I’m also starting to regret saying I liked that this leak happened. A lot of true colors are being shown and it’s not pleasant. Other than one or two people on each side, I do give serious cred to a lot of the debaters on each side, though. vaanrose is a goddamn machine.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

To deny that there's a bias towards leaks with "favorable" characters is a bit ridiculous.

This sort of thing has happened throughout Smash history. DaybreakHorizon even provided a prime example; Tower of Smash was given spotlight treatment even though the only things it got explicitly right was the return of Onett (an easily predictable retro stage), and was kept alive even after getting not one, not two, but three consecutive stage names wrong. The third of which, wasn't even in the same ballpark.

Why was it so popular? Because it was a post-3DS release SSB4 leak that said Ridley could still be playable.

It's not even the only example of this happening. Have you heard of Miahstorm? The leak that was popularized after the fall of Gematsu? It wasn't even the only one that said Chrom wasn't playable prior to his disconfirmation, but picked up traction over its direct rival; why? Because it said Ridley and K. Rool were in, whereas its rival said both were "playable in a boss battle mode".

Even the ESRB leak, the one everyone and their mothers are comparing the Grinch leak to, is an example of a leak getting treatment that coincided with the characters it implicated. Most of the community was thoroughly convinced it was fake even though it had much, much more to it than the Grinch leak. It also just so happened to disconfirm every single remaining community favorite with the sole exception of Shulk.

It's hard to write all of this off as a mere coincidence.

I'm not disagreeing. I'm saying this has gotten genuinely hostile and people are running way too far with it.

I left gamefaqs after a decade of posting to get away from this exact atmosphere and I'm disappointed to see it here.

I'm leaving until this blows over.

 

[Troykv]

To deny that there's a bias towards leaks with "favorable" characters is a bit ridiculous.

This sort of thing has happened throughout Smash history. DaybreakHorizon even provided a prime example; Tower of Smash was given spotlight treatment even though the only things it got explicitly right was the return of Onett (an easily predictable retro stage), and was kept alive even after getting not one, not two, but three consecutive stage names wrong. The third of which, wasn't even in the same ballpark.

Why was it so popular? Because it was a post-3DS release SSB4 leak that said Ridley could still be playable.

It's not even the only example of this happening. Have you heard of Miahstorm? The leak that was popularized after the fall of Gematsu? It wasn't even the only one that said Chrom wasn't playable prior to his disconfirmation, but picked up traction over its direct rival; why? Because it said Ridley and K. Rool were in, whereas its rival said both were "playable in a boss battle mode".

Even the ESRB leak, the one everyone and their mothers are comparing the Grinch leak to, is an example of a leak getting treatment that coincided with the characters it implicated. Most of the community was thoroughly convinced it was fake even though it had much, much more to it than the Grinch leak. It also just so happened to disconfirm every single remaining community favorite with the sole exception of Shulk.

It's hard to write all of this off as a mere coincidence.

That makes sense... People don't want to believe the "worst case scenario" is the true.

I'm personally just expecting to see Ken (pretty much leaked) and a random character.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Here's a thought:

Has anyone thought of making a similar (not close or exact but similar) situation with images and such and then making a snapchat video?

I would but my phone is...meh...and I don't wanna download the app...

 

[ZephyrZ]

The background has changed before, outside of the leak lol

When? Show me. I've yet to see actual proof it's changed that hasn't been corrected.

 

[Misery Brick]

I'm saying people are more inclined to believe it because it has what they want. It's bias, and it's a core aspect of human beliefs. We all have our biases, but many people here let their biases influence their beliefs despite any facts that may or may not accompany them. It's why blog theory gained traction even thought it was some simple calculations, and why box theory advocates (not even supporters, people playing devil's advocate), myself included, were attacked for simply trying to argue that it could be real.

If you want to believe the leak and have real evidence to back up your beliefs be my guest. But I'm not here to argue blind beliefs against brick walls.

I mean I’m a brick, not exactly a wall, so do I count?
don’t kill me.

But basically this pretty much. More people are willing to go with something that contains what they prefer, it’s natural.
While I’d love to see the leak actually confirmed, there’s quite a bit of discrepancies that keep a lot of people wary. Myself included.
Also, a lot of insiders are calling it fake, while a few others believe it to be real.
There’s a hodgepodge of points to consider and use to construct arguments for each outcome. It just comes down to organizing that.
The problem is that emotion or biases can’t be an actual factor when considering any of this, and it has to be tossed out when examining evidence. You have to view it all from an objective viewpoint when discussing the nature of it.
It’s Debate 101.

While it’s fine to share your opinion on here, you can’t use it to enforce your constructive. That’s all DaybreakHorizon is trying to get at here.

 

[Wyoming]

leon and dante are better than all three

Puh-lease Phoenix triumphs over all.

(Let's just have a Capcom DLC pack)

 

[Luigi The President]

Unique character trailer yes, but not two unique characters. If what he says is true, it could be a unique and an echo, couldn't it?

Yes. But even then I can't imagine the last character trailer is Ken and Incineroar. So the box theory seems to be blown out even more imo.
IMO being the key word here.

Honestly I think the character revealing two unique characters may be Chrous Kids and Mach Rider, if true I mean. Mach Rider, while cool, isn’t known enough to hold their own trailer while Chorus Kids are still a niche pick despite Rhythm Heaven’s popularity in Japan.

If the leak is real I don't think I can see that. Duck Hunt got his own trailer, yea?

 

[Paperchampion23]

When? Show me. I've yet to see actual proof it's changed that hasn't been corrected.

Uh, read the last 30 pages. I'm not doing this a 3rd time.

And 2 other people have posted about this too

 

[KMDP]

I'm not disagreeing. I'm saying this has gotten genuinely hostile and people are running way too far with it.

I left gamefaqs after a decade of posting to get away from this exact atmosphere and I'm disappointed to see it here.

I'm leaving until this blows over.

Yeah, I might back off too.

Play some more Puyo Puyo.

 

[Burb]

You know you could use that exact argument to argue why the Grinch leak is real, right?

"Any hole punched through it ended up turning into evidence to support it."
This is almost exactly what's happening right now.

I'd love to see how the background being wrong "turned into evidence to support it".

Because I still have yet to see an explanation as to how the crystals could magically change just by bad image quality.

And before you say "THEY COULDA CHANGED THE BACKGROUND FOR THE FINAL VERSION"......just don't. The fact that the biggest discrepencies between the background we know is real and the one from the Grinch leak all just happen to be in spots that are obscured in the current banner is suspicious enough for me to not buy into that excuse.

I'm not disagreeing. I'm saying this has gotten genuinely hostile and people are running way too far with it.

I left gamefaqs after a decade of posting to get away from this exact atmosphere and I'm disappointed to see it here.

I'm leaving until this blows over.

I'm over on GameFAQs, too, so I probably contributed.

My bad.

 

[Slender]

Hey all! Coming from the Geno thread to bring the message I sent over here:

Over on the Star Road Discord, a lot of people were freaking out over the trademarks. Now by itself, they don't really amount to anything, but when you look at everything...

May 11, 2018 - Mach Rider Trademark renewal
May 13, 2018 - SMRPG Tweet #TeamGeno
August 24, 2018 - Golden Sun Trademark renewal
August 24, 2018 - Rhythm Heaven Trademark renewal
September 7, 2018 - Banjo-Kazooie Trademark renewal

Weird that all 5 of these characters show up in the leak and all 5 have had some form of renewal or recognition this year, especially given their history. (Rhythm Heaven would be the only one that really makes sense, since it's an ongoing franchise right now.)

Also, isn't it odd that Ken and Shadow, who have no evidence related to this, already have their franchises in Smash? You could argue Geno is bundled with the Mario characters, but his third-party attributes still stand.

There are many, many things lining up for this leak, and it's getting to the point where I would have to commend the leaker greatly if this turns out to be fake.

 

[Luigi The President]

In these hard times, what I do to remind me just how damn good we've got it regardless of a leak being true or not is watch this MASTERPIECE

 

[Ura]

The poll I did this morning is sitting at 200 votes as we speak and the majority believes that Grinchmas is either real or there's a chance it's real.

 

[Chrono.]

You know you could use that exact argument to argue why the Grinch leak is real, right?

"Any hole punched through it ended up turning into evidence to support it."
This is almost exactly what's happening right now.

The background though.

 

[vaanrose]

What's going to prove this leak legit, or at least, 99% legit, is when those Grinch displays appear in the wild. So keep an eye out for them. They should appear *at least* two weeks before Smash releases, and in my opinion, should really be out by next week if they're not already out there, since these kind of displays usually go up well in advance of the film's release.

It's possible they'll only be out in France, if this place is responsible for designing them. But if this place is only responsible for printing them, then they should appear all over the place, as they're probably not the only printing house to receive the designs.

 

[Zinith]

I entered the show soon after the E3 saga after watching ever since the March 8th saga.

Zinith 's the animal mascot.

So am I more like Monokuma or Jibanyan?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

But here’s another thing I should point out

May 11, 2018 - Mach Rider Trademark renewal
May 13, 2018 - SMRPG Tweet #TeamGeno
August 24, 2018 - Golden Sun Trademark renewal
August 24, 2018 - Rhythm Heaven Trademark renewal
September 7, 2018 - Banjo-Kazooie Trademark renewal

All of them happened this year

And shadow and kens series are already involved in smash

But really I’m leaning toward real but assuming fake for being able to brace the impact of disappointment

 

[UberMadman]

Hey all! Coming from the Geno thread to bring the message I sent over here:

Over on the Star Road Discord, a lot of people were freaking out over the trademarks. Now by itself, they don't really amount to anything, but when you look at everything...

May 11, 2018 - Mach Rider Trademark renewal
May 13, 2018 - SMRPG Tweet #TeamGeno
August 24, 2018 - Golden Sun Trademark renewal
August 24, 2018 - Rhythm Heaven Trademark renewal
September 7, 2018 - Banjo-Kazooie Trademark renewal

Weird that all 5 of these characters show up in the leak and all 5 have had some form of renewal or recognition this year, especially given their history. (Rhythm Heaven would be the only one that really makes sense, since it's an ongoing franchise right now.)

Also, isn't it odd that Ken and Shadow, who have no evidence related to this, already have their franchises in Smash? You could argue Geno is bundled with the Mario characters, but his third-party attributes still stand.

There are many, many things lining up for this leak, and it's getting to the point where I would have to commend the leaker greatly if this turns out to be fake.

The Banjo trademark renewal isn't too special. It apparently happens every ten years; last time it happened was 2008.

 

[Chrollo.]

Yes. But even then I can't imagine the last character trailer is Ken and Incineroar. So the box theory seems to be blown out even more imo.
IMO being the key word here.


If the leak is real I don't think I can see that. Duck Hunt got his own trailer, yea?

He did, but I’d wager Duck Hunt is more known than Mach Rider. But Mystic mentioned how a few sources told him there’s 7 characters and 3 clones so Mach Rider might be a Falcon echo so who knows

 

[TheCJBrine]

Also, I really don't understand how "this has all the fan-picks" is a point against the leak.

Ridley was a fan-pick.

K. Rool was a fan-pick.

While Sakurai only mentioned he took from the ballot in his K. Rool interview, he didn't say he did it only for K. Rool.

It's still very much possible, especially with how this game seems to have newcomers that try to satisfy nearly everyone.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

Just to leave it here that whether you're from Team Real or Team Fake, if you treat the other team like you're better/smarter than them, you're an asshole.

 

[Pyra]

That's the thing. It's a screencap of a Snapchat video. That's why the whole background thing is just stunning to me...like, damn. You know?
I don't think you do, as I'm very unclear, it's just a feeling I can't put into words.

I feel like the image could have been distorted a number of different ways depending on how the video was recorded, as in what the person was doing while the video was being recorded. Like I said, I haven't seen it, did he pan over the images slowly, or was he shakey?
I feel like the circumstances surrounding the recording of the video would be important.

Maybe it's just me, and maybe it's a much bigger discrepancy than I'm aware of to the point it doesn't matter.

However, the fact that nobody's been able to truly argue it is certainly a point against the leak. I would never say otherwise.
I just personally need more information before looking at it truly.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Where is Dixie Kong in all of this?

Given that she was mentioned to be cut from the development, I feel like she might be very upfront in the DLC-wave. Perhaps leading the whole pack.

Dixie I can see becoming DLC too. Sadly not Ray tho if Custom Robo’s cancelation is an indication

 

[ZephyrZ]

Uh, read the last 30 pages. I'm not doing this a 3rd time.

And 2 other people have posted about this too

Well I'm not going to go through all 30 pages, so if you aren't giving me an actual answer I'm going to presume you mean the Wendy's mural, which was actually the pre-Isabelle mural and didn't have any visual changes in the background. It only looked that way because the characters where shifted around compared to the E3 one.

 

[Flyboy]

Here's a thought:

Has anyone thought of making a similar (not close or exact but similar) situation with images and such and then making a snapchat video?

I would but my phone is...meh...and I don't wanna download the app...

I'm gonna say that it's probably better if you have a meh phone especially if it's an Android. Snapchat for Android literally screen records camera images to send videos on Android because Snapchat has an in with Apple. On iOS videos are recorded directly through the camera. On Android the camera is not directly accessed. It's one of the reasons I can believe the truly bad quality of this leak.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Well I'm not going to go through all 30 pages, so if you aren't giving me an actual answer I'm going to presume you mean the Wendy's mural, which was actually the pre-Isabelle mural and didn't have any visual changes in the background. It only looked that way because the characters where shifted around compared to the E3 one.

Nope, not at all

 

[Untouch]

What's going to prove this leak legit, or at least, 99% legit, is when those Grinch displays appear in the wild. So keep an eye out for them. They should appear *at least* two weeks before Smash releases, and in my opinion, should really be out by next week if they're not already out there, since these kind of displays usually go up well in advance of the film's release.

It's possible they'll only be out in France, if this place is responsible for designing them. But if this place is only responsible for printing them, then they should appear all over the place, as they're probably not the only printing house to receive the designs.

I don't really think this'll prove it.
If the "leaker" did work at a design studio that worked on the Grinch displays, but faked the Smash leak in his own time they'd still pop up.
If ACP comes forth and says they're working on the Grinch displays I'll believe it more, but if Marina comes forth and says they did it's dead in the water.

 

[beans]

All the talk of Smashboards anime reminded me, is anyone here following the BHA anime?
Bit unrelated but I just wanna know if were near the overhaul arc of it is already happening.
I just goona watch the anime when the best characters appear.
That is Gentle and La Brava of course

 

[UberMadman]

What's going to prove this leak legit, or at least, 99% legit, is when those Grinch displays appear in the wild. So keep an eye out for them. They should appear *at least* two weeks before Smash releases, and in my opinion, should really be out by next week if they're not already out there, since these kind of displays usually go up well in advance of the film's release.

It's possible they'll only be out in France, if this place is responsible for designing them. But if this place is only responsible for printing them, then they should appear all over the place, as they're probably not the only printing house to receive the designs.

Wait, so do you not believe that there's a possibility that the Smash leaks themselves are fake but the Grinch promotional materials are real? That's what I was under the impression of, but if you don't think that's a possible scenario, I would value your input.

 

[Chrollo.]

Hey all! Coming from the Geno thread to bring the message I sent over here:

Over on the Star Road Discord, a lot of people were freaking out over the trademarks. Now by itself, they don't really amount to anything, but when you look at everything...

May 11, 2018 - Mach Rider Trademark renewal
May 13, 2018 - SMRPG Tweet #TeamGeno
August 24, 2018 - Golden Sun Trademark renewal
August 24, 2018 - Rhythm Heaven Trademark renewal
September 7, 2018 - Banjo-Kazooie Trademark renewal

Weird that all 5 of these characters show up in the leak and all 5 have had some form of renewal or recognition this year, especially given their history. (Rhythm Heaven would be the only one that really makes sense, since it's an ongoing franchise right now.)

Also, isn't it odd that Ken and Shadow, who have no evidence related to this, already have their franchises in Smash? You could argue Geno is bundled with the Mario characters, but his third-party attributes still stand.

There are many, many things lining up for this leak, and it's getting to the point where I would have to commend the leaker greatly if this turns out to be fake.

Shadow also got a trademark renewal around the same time