Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

A guy who's a professional graphics designer, and thus more suited to analyzing and judging this than any one of us here.

I sense saltiness here.

Uh...I don’t care about Rayman or the leak, I was just cracking a joke.

1. That doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about.
2. You imply there something wrong with making a fake leak like that, but I fail to see it. He did it as a graphic design exercise, a test of his skills. He never harmed anyone, and in fact, he did a "make of" video afterwards that many people learned from. And he even changed everyone's expectations and approach of future fake leaks.
3. He didn't do it to promote his channel series. He planned Smashified after the surprising popularity he got, and the requests of people to make more. But then again, even if he did, nothing wrong with that. Guerilla marketing is a thing, and if done properly, it's completely respectable.

See above.

 

[ToddCam]

The thing that really kills me on the inside is having to go back to every already-discussed argument made for and against the leak every five minutes because some yokel isn't up to date

This drives me crazy. Either go back and look it up yourself, or just try to figure it out by context. "I took a nap, what did I miss?" Why is it anyone's responsibility to monitor your offline time? Grumble Growl Incineroar

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yes, Sakurai decided not to use Takamaru for that exact reason, but maybe that was only one of the reasons? Like, Nintendo probably has no intention of doing anything with Mysterious Murasame Castle. Ice Climbers are the obvious counterpoint to this, but they probably would have been a one-off thing had they not gotten popular, and are now being Grandfathered in for the fans.

Unlike Takamaru; Isaac, Geno, Chorus Kids, Mach Rider, Banjo Kazooie, Shadow and Ken have all seen worldwide releases within their lifespan, and have the potential to please casuals (and will definitely please hardcore Smash fans).

Given the minigame in Nintendo Land and the worldwide release of the game on the 3DS, why would he stick with this reason?

 

[ZephyrZ]

Well the Chorus Kids have been found and the so called conducter's head is a VIllager's net
https://twitter.com/Darkinlp/status/1055222507693838336
btw i like the leak my wishlist besides Wah

Nah, that's a huge stretch. The Chorus Kids just look a little similar because of their simple designs.

 

[T3Z3R1]

Well the Chorus Kids have been found and the so called conducter's head is a VIllager's net
https://twitter.com/Darkinlp/status/1055222507693838336
btw i like the leak my wishlist besides Wah

>villager net as conductor's head

doesn't even look like same to me. that's shulk is photoshopped little mac tier.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Does he even know the Conductor's head is supposed to look like that?

 

[osby]

Well, the thing is, those culturally known characters (i.e. PAC-MAN) are already in the game.

And once they're in the game, where do you go from there? There are only so many well known characters, and most of them are third party (meaning licensing costs). Not to mention that Shadow and Ken are two of the most well known video game characters, after the ones that are already in.

Besides this, not being known to wider audiences isn't really the barrier to entry people seem to think it is; since they could use Smash to make them more well known.

Yes, Sakurai decided not to use Takamaru for that exact reason, but maybe that was only one of the reasons? Like, Nintendo probably has no intention of doing anything with Mysterious Murasame Castle. Ice Climbers are the obvious counterpoint to this, but they probably would have been a one-off thing had they not gotten popular, and are now being Grandfathered in for the fans.

Unlike Takamaru; Isaac, Geno, Chorus Kids, Mach Rider, Banjo Kazooie, Shadow and Ken have all seen worldwide releases within their lifespan, and have the potential to please casuals (and will definitely please hardcore Smash fans).

Casual fans aren't just made up of people that only care about contemporary releases and/or who is the best known, they are a wide, varied bunch, just like all people.

When you say it like that it sounds like hardcore fans are harder to please. ^^

 

[JustCallMeJon]

So the Grinch Leak is LITERALLY dead or what? I woke up recently.

 

[Ignoritus]

Well the Chorus Kids have been found and the so called conducter's head is a VIllager's net
https://twitter.com/Darkinlp/status/1055222507693838336
btw i like the leak my wishlist besides Wah

...Does this guy not know his months? He very deliberately circled "No more fire emblem characters" and the date on the 4chan post being in September with a red arrow pointing to the August reveal of Chrom like it disproved the leak??

Edit: Look at the rest of the twitter. This is a troll.

 

[KMDP]

Serious question: How the hell is Shadow able to swim?

I'm more worried about Geno.

He's made of wood.

Given the minigame in Nintendo Land and the worldwide release of the game on the 3DS, why would he stick with this reason?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Don't ask me, it was just an idea I had (There are even more reasons).

 

[T3Z3R1]

So the Grinch Leak is dead or what? I woke up recently.

Not yet, we are still debating. Come back when we were done with debating this leak to death.

 

[Condenir]

Assuming the leak is real(on the fence about), I’m kind of hoping the DLC for Ultimate is different from sm4sh.
4/7 characters(i think?) in the leak are third party. In the sm4sh DLC, all DLC was either cut veterans, or 3rd parties. Since their aren’t any veterans cut, and we have gotten a lot of 3rd parties...I’m really hoping they focus on the remaining Nintendo characters that haven’t gotten in yet or were too new.

BWD- completes Kirby Roster, is truly adorable, and has an absolutely insane amount of love for him and would have a unique weapon with a spear

Dixie- truly a disservice that she hasn’t been included yet...also completes DK roster, is truly adorable, and(potentially even tho she would probably be an echo) have a fun fighting style with her hair

Elma/Rex/Pyra- one of Nintendo’s newer and amazing franchises. I think Xenoblade deserves 3 reps and I stand by that. Elma being an awesome strong female character with potential for awesome Moveset. And Rex and Pyra being a part of a great game and could also have great unique Movesets


Arms rep- Springman is kinda boring but I’m biased as I think most “main” characters are kind of boring...but it still makes sense for a Nintendo fighting IP to appear in a Nintendo fighting game...or maybe that’s just ME

Pokemon-yeah yeah maybe there’s a lot of them but it truly is a huge game that FOCUSES on tons and tons and tons of characters so makes sense that there would be a lot in the game. RIP incineroar

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Well the Chorus Kids have been found and the so called conducter's head is a VIllager's net
https://twitter.com/Darkinlp/status/1055222507693838336
btw i like the leak my wishlist besides Wah

That's genuinely laughable, literally everything there is wrong. The Chorus Kids are NOTABLY different, that net is not duplicated, characters moving is not an issue, it's already been shown that shadows are getting smaller and less opaque with every new version of the panorama, we've been through the fact the pixelation blurs colors slightly, and the dumbest one of all, he specifically said 'no more Fire Emblem' AFTER the direct, meaning we're not getting anything like Black Knight or Celica (for god's sake 'debunker', use your head).

 

[gloop898]

Going to quote myself here because I don't have time

All I will say to this is, people are crazy and will go to crazy lengths to accomplish things. If this leak is fake, nothing done here is out of possibility.

Also I have a general question,
do we know for sure this was leaked first on snapchat?
Like do we know for sure that it being on "snapchat" wasn't just part of the ruse?
I don't know, maybe I'm being a bit tin foil hatty. But it's convenient that it was on snapchat, so it can be a video but we never actually see the video.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Well, the thing is, those culturally known characters (i.e. PAC-MAN) are already in the game.

And once they're in the game, where do you go from there? There are only so many well known characters, and most of them are third party (meaning licensing costs). Not to mention that Shadow and Ken are two of the most well known video game characters, after the ones that are already in.

Besides this, not being known to wider audiences isn't really the barrier to entry people seem to think it is; since they could use Smash to make them more well known.

Yes, Sakurai decided not to use Takamaru for that exact reason, but maybe that was only one of the reasons? Like, Nintendo probably has no intention of doing anything with Mysterious Murasame Castle. Ice Climbers are the obvious counterpoint to this, but they probably would have been a one-off thing had they not gotten popular, and are now being Grandfathered in for the fans.

Unlike Takamaru; Isaac, Geno, Chorus Kids, Mach Rider, Banjo Kazooie, Shadow and Ken have all seen worldwide releases within their lifespan, and have the potential to please casuals (and will definitely please hardcore Smash fans).

Casual fans aren't just made up of people that only care about contemporary releases and/or who is the best known, they are a wide, varied bunch, just like all people.

Completely agreed. I'm not sure how much of a casual fan I can consider myself now (since I'm on here, like, everyday, but joining a couple months ago was a new experience for me), I have been a casual gamer my entire life. And ever since the possibility occurred to me when Sonic was in Brawl, I felt Banjo's presence missing having been a huge fan of the N64 era but understanding the reasons why it was "impossible". There are other characters I'm only discovering through Smash speculation--like Isaac, for weeks I thought people were referring to the Binding of Isaac. That being said, I haven't played handheld games for the most part. But those that have, whether they're Smash fans or not, would see Isaac or Rhythm Heaven and be like "OMG! I remember playing that!".

Casual =/= recent. Recency's somewhat a factor, but popularity, both from casual fans and hardcore fans, matters a lot.

 

[Untouch]

Digging deeper, I haven't seen any connection Universal involving either company, both companies also SEEM to only do work for supermarkets, which is a bit weird.

As Marina seems to only focus on completed products, they probably wouldn't have showcased it yet.
On the Linkedin, Eric is the ONLY employee listed for ACP as well, which is odd. It also says he was the president of Lion's Club... (????) and he still is. I don't really want to dig into this guy's life though, that just stood out to me.
I can't really find anything else about ACP as they're a fairly small company (and search results are flooded with Smash speculation...).

 

[Fatmanonice]

When it comes to the background inconsistencies, I say who cares? It's literally the background. With a minimum of seven character additions, it's already pretty stuffed so you really can't see that much of it anyways. Reasonably, I can see it being simplified for this alone. If there were major character inconsistencies, THAT would be significant. I feel like analyzing the background is pretty nitpicky given there were never any truly notable details to begin with and, either way, they'd more than likely be obscured by the roster anyways, especially with the additions of Mach Rider (and her bike?), Chorus Kids, and Isaac taking up significant space on the ground.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Seems the box for the Switch Bundle (not of box theory infamy) doesnt credit Rare, Camelot, etc.

This box is with retailers and in some people's possession now, isn't it? I don't think we can make the argument here that 'it'll be updated later'. An official box for the game is now direct evidence against this entire thing.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Well the Chorus Kids have been found and the so called conducter's head is a VIllager's net
https://twitter.com/Darkinlp/status/1055222507693838336
btw i like the leak my wishlist besides Wah

Lol they say no more fire emblem kills this leak, despite the fact that this leak came out after the August Direct

 

[ErenJager]

I feel the leak is false based on the information presented in this video.

 

[NotLiquid]

If the banner was confirmed to be fake, and then where's source for arts of Geno, Banjo Koozie, Shadow, and others that were shown in grinch leak?

The presumption here is that the leaker faked the background itself by painting over it in a way that looks convincing enough when taken in a blurry screenshot but has a whole lot of inconsistencies once you put it under the scope and contrast with the actual background.

It is safe to assume that the person who made this has a degree of artistic talent. People are overthinking the character illustrations. They're most likely completely original and have most of their inconsistencies hidden as well. It wouldn't be too hard since honestly, the mural illustrations aren't that amazing.

 

[Untouch]

So the Grinch Leak is LITERALLY dead or what? I woke up recently.

No, I want to say the direct will determine if it's real or not but honestly I don't even know if that's the case anymore.

 

[Robertman2]

Iwata, Reggie, and Miyamoto were (briefly) considered for Sm4sh.
WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. HECK.

source for this
please

 

[JustCallMeJon]

I feel the leak is false based on the information presented in this video.

It was already shown at yesterday actually. I think everybody watched that.

 

[Cosmic77]

And you providing nothing of substance with this post and being openly aggressive is ok?

In terms of the leak, I think what makes this one stick out so much is the lack of a pokemon. Honestly a gen 7 mon always seemed like a lock, but in hindsight it sort of makes sense.

Gen 8 is coming next year, and alola is on the way out. Yes the anime is still going, but with the shift to the switch it is clear alola is going to be not a huge deal to promote.

While at first in the project plan it makes sense for a gen 7 mon, based on the timing I would say a Gen 8 mon would be the most likely thing as DLC.

And to add on to what you said, adding Incineroar as DLC makes even less sense than Gen 7 missing from Ultimate altogether.

The whole reason why so many of us could see Sakurai choosing Incineroar is because we were sure he didn't know who would be popular back then. But if Sakurai decided to hold off on Gen 7 for base roster and add a rep as DLC, then that would make his choice of Incineroar even more puzzling. By mid 2017, not only was it evident that Incineroar wasn't the favorite starter (I presume it was Primarina based off the Pokemon fandom's reception), but Game Freak publicly announced that Gen 8 was in the works.

If Incineroar is in this game, it's base. DLC shouldn't even be an option here.

Assuming the leak is real(on the fence about), I’m kind of hoping the DLC for Ultimate is different from sm4sh.
4/7 characters(i think?) in the leak are third party. In the sm4sh DLC, all DLC was either cut veterans, or 3rd parties. Since their aren’t any veterans cut, and we have gotten a lot of 3rd parties...I’m really hoping they focus on the remaining Nintendo characters that haven’t gotten in yet or were too new.

BWD- completes Kirby Roster, is truly adorable, and has an absolutely insane amount of love for him and would have a unique weapon with a spear

Dixie- truly a disservice that she hasn’t been included yet...also completes DK roster, is truly adorable, and(potentially even tho she would probably be an echo) have a fun fighting style with her hair

Elma/Rex/Pyra- one of Nintendo’s newer and amazing franchises. I think Xenoblade deserves 3 reps and I stand by that. Elma being an awesome strong female character with potential for awesome Moveset. And Rex and Pyra being a part of a great game and could also have great unique Movesets


Arms rep- Springman is kinda boring but I’m biased as I think most “main” characters are kind of boring...but it still makes sense for a Nintendo fighting IP to appear in a Nintendo fighting game...or maybe that’s just ME

Pokemon-yeah yeah maybe there’s a lot of them but it truly is a huge game that FOCUSES on tons and tons and tons of characters so makes sense that there would be a lot in the game. RIP incineroar

That's completely identical to what I want from DLC. I'd also like a new Zelda character (preferably a Champion), but I won't grumble if we don't and get at least two of the characters you mentioned.

 

[The DanMan051]

When it comes to the background inconsistencies, I say who cares? It's literally the background. With a minimum of seven character additions, it's already pretty stuffed so you really can't see that much of it anyways. Reasonably, I can see it being simplified for this alone. If there were major character inconsistencies, THAT would be significant. I feel like analyzing the background is pretty nitpicky given there were never any truly notable details to begin with and, either way, they'd more than likely be obscured by the roster anyways, especially with the additions of Mach Rider (and her bike?), Chorus Kids, and Isaac taking up significant space on the ground.

There's literally no need to change it, though; it would be pointlessly creating more work to alter areas that nobody would even see.

 

[Deleted member]

And you providing nothing of substance with this post and being openly aggressive makes it ok?.

Why don't you mind your business, chief.
In case you're too blind to see, the guy was spamming this **** across multiple pages.
Someone needed to call them out on it.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I feel the leak is false based on the information presented in this video.

Technically, this video contained a lot of information that fit on both sides, ironically enough. Which is balanced. Weird coming from the guy who said if it were real he'd be in a puddle, or some stupid ****.

EDIT:

source for this
please

Who you were replying to was quoting me where I gave the source.

 

[Deleted member]

Digging deeper, I haven't seen any connection Universal involving either company, both companies also SEEM to only do work for supermarkets, which is a bit weird.

As Marina seems to only focus on completed products, they probably wouldn't have showcased it yet.
On the Linkedin, Eric is the ONLY employee listed for ACP as well, which is odd. It also says he was the president of Lion's Club... (????) and he still is. I don't really want to dig into this guy's life though, that just stood out to me.
I can't really find anything else about ACP as they're a fairly small company (and search results are flooded with Smash speculation...).

This is fascinating. The named guy is the only listed employee? We’ve confirmed the place exists, so that’s just...odd.

 

[Deleted member]

source for this
please

It's in the table that's part of the article in the link I'm replying to in this post
(Sorry if that's confusing)

 

[Aerospherology]

So the Grinch Leak is LITERALLY dead or what? I woke up recently.

Look at this net that I just found. When I say "copy", be ready to paste.

 

[ErenJager]

It was already shown at yesterday actually. I think everybody watched that.

Brool story co.

 

[Deleted member]

Y'all so as far as I can tell there are 4 options that could be happening
1. The first company we thought he worked for was working at was actually working on the banner in Nov. 2016 and this eric dude leaked it then and the video just surfaced. 1% chance of this happening IMO, the company seemed genuinely concerned about their chances of working with Bandai Namco again after this so their is no way they were working with Bamco right now.
2. The real leaker does work at a company that is working with Illumination and Bamco and just quickly looked up an employee from a different company who could potentially have worked on this banner to impersonate them so he doesn't get in trouble.
3. Eric's new company does work with Bamco AND Illumination and he leaked it. Honestly this is the simplest explanation but also one of the more believable ones. The main reason I can think of is why hasn't the company put out a statement because if they aren't working with Bamco they wouldn't be under an NDA. However my main issues are that according to his education years Eric is like 50 as of now, and that seems like way past the age range to leak stuff on Snapchat with mispelled emoji's lmao. Also why does Eric still have a job if this is true
4. We all got played. The fake leaker plays 420d chess. Goku is in.

 

[ToddCam]

It was already shown at yesterday actually. I think everybody watched that.

I didn't. This thread is much more informative. And after Derrick's "It's blurry, so it's probably fake" level of journalism in the first video, I am not particularly impressed with their debunking skills.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The details were probably just a layer anyways so I don't think it's as much work as people imply. The one in the leak is much more simplified which makes me think it was a "base", kind of like what's done with animation cells.

 

[Chrollo.]

IF what Mystic said is true and the truth of everything lays somewhere around the middle, I can only make sense of it in like 4 ways:

1. Incineroar and the other missing characters (Which range from like 1-2) are leak bait
2. They’re DLC, couldn’t be finished in time for the base game like MewTwo with Smash 4
3. Chadandorf leak is real, the Grinch leak was a fake mock up for it. Incineroar and the unknown characters are in, but the Chadandorf leaker didn’t know about them for some reason. Still possible DLC.
4. Nintendo sent out incomplete murals for some reason and it got leaked, or the mural is complete but they already have one made for DLC already which is what Mystic may have seen. Or for some reason they have multiple murals made with missing characters, which doesn’t seem unlikely since the mural is updated with every reveal.

One for certain though, I’m sure whoever or whatever is revealed at the VGA is gonna be DLC

 

[gloop898]

I'm so convinced that Grinch Leak is fake that if it turns out to be real I'll record myself singing "You're a Mean One Mr. Grinch" and upload it to youtube.

 

[larlargaming]

well then good morning, i see we havent gotten anywhere

 

[Flon]

Yeah, we'll be going through loops until we get additional information from Nintendo to dissect and compare. Or if another leak happens.

It's the ESRB all over again; it was a tiring wait until we could get some official material. Things got quite frantic between the divide as tension grew - it wasn't pleasant.

I think it's easier to not put much hope into the leak and to take a bit of a back seat. Anything that comes out that's relevant to the leak will certainly be spread across all Smash/Nintendo related sites confirming if it is fake or legit. For now, it'll be easier to just go back to what we're used to; waiting for news while staying sceptical.

 

[osby]

source for this
please

It's here: https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/04/29/duflupdate/