Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[shinhed-echi]

Serious question: How the hell is Shadow able to swim?

He's the Ultimate at everything. Including the Ultimate Swimmer.

Speaking of... Didn't he Swim in the Olympic games?

 

[Deleted member]

And people that see errors caused by a pixelated image and think its debunking the leak

Ok master
Now please go and make this easy leak from scratch, we are waiting

Ok master
Now please go and make this easy leak from scratch, we are waiting

How cute!
Facts?
Ok

If you're going to provide nothing of substance to the discussion and just be a passive-aggressive jackass that posts pointless sarcasm over anything said, then don't post anything at all.
No one wants to see that ****, and no one cares what you have to say on the matter or thinks it's cute.

 

[Deleted member]

We're gonna get to 250,000 posts soon

 

[osby]

Serious question: How the hell is Shadow able to swim?

Because he's the Ultimate life form.

EDIT: Greninja'd.

 

[Ura]

Here's a poll I made in regards to the Grinch leak. I want to see how the community is feeling about all this and what percentage believes what.

https://www.strawpoll.me/16718692

Also let it be known that i'm very much #Team50-50

 

[Deleted member]

Have the Nintendo Sentinels neutralized any leak at the moment?

 

[Peeton]

Snapchat videos can only be viewed once before they auto-delete, and they only stay up for a couple hours.

Seriously. have you guys never used popular social media platforms like these? I saw posts like this all the time and 4chan as well, where people question the validity of the leak, simply cause they're ignorant of how Snapchat work.

In short, it's made for nudes and **** pics (not officially, but that's what most people use it for anyways). Send out your pic/video, and don't worry about it "leaking" as it'll autodelete and can't be recovered once it's seen. Ofc as you can see with this leak, it's not foolproof, there are way to snag some screencaps of whatever it is you sent if you're quick/clever enough.

So no, the original video is most definitely gone forever, and it not existing anyone isn't any "proof" of the images being fake, as the very nature of Snapchat makes it basically impossible to recover any video you've seen. We're lucky to even have these screen.

Golly, I was asking just in case! I know how Snapchat works

 

[Pazzo.]

I think it's fishy how the background changes are all behind where characters would be.

 

[FalcoXP]

Still inconclusive. Personally I call fake.

thanks.

I see that there's not much progress.

November feels far with this leak.

 

[Confirmation]

Morning everyone. How's everyone...?

Oh, we're still arguing about the leak. Great.

Welp, let's hope this thing gets killed today, because I sure as heck don't want to spend a weekend arguing with passive-aggressive people who've dedicated hours of their time just to prove why they're right.

If it's killed, you'll just get passive-aggressive gloating from people basking in being right. Same as if it's confirmed.

The fun never ends.

 

[Deleted member]

So, nothing new since last night. Was hoping we'd see this thing leaning more towards one side or another, but it seems to still be stuck at 50-50. Well, in any case, there will be a Direct in November. I don't think there's enough time in December (since the game is released 12/7), so the final direct is coming. I suppose they could have one Direct on the Tuesday before release, but that's cutting it awwwwwfffuuuulllllyyy close.

Since the other directs were early in the month, I think we can expect it on either November 1st (Thursday next week) or November 8th (2 weeks from now). If it gives us Incineroar, Ken (with a pose that does not match the one in the banner), or any character/echo not mentioned by the leak, then the banner leak has received what is probably a killing blow (but of course, there will still be remnants defending it).

If the Leak gives us Mach Rider, Banjo, Issac, or Shadow, then I think we can count it as confirmed. I'm not going to include Ken and Geno in there as proof, however, since we are already aware of Ken (thanks to an earlier Moray Tower leak) and Geno is the most likely 'Square Rep' we've been told about, I don't think those two alone would confirm the banner.

Of course, the most hilarious scenario would be that the Direct comes and shows everybody wrong as we get a new Pokemon rep in Gardevoir followed by an echo, Gothitelle. I might not be able to stop laughing if that happens.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Apologies, I went through the new pages in a hurry and didn't see it, sorry for spamming.

No need to apologize, I like having chances to feel helpful.

 

[Gentlepanda]

I can forgive this, if you only use YouTube as a source for Smash news you'd be in the dark about most of this debate.


Honestly, I'm in the middle but theres a lot of cockiness happening from Team Real all over here and Twitter.

The cockiness is ever so slightly infuriating, and it makes me incredibly concerned for the fallout if this turns out to be fake. People won't think first that Sakurai's given them a Smash game with 72-ish ****ing characters - they'll be more pissed that he hasn't given them characters he never promised and were only present in a leak.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I can forgive this, if you only use YouTube as a source for Smash news you'd be in the dark about most of this debate.


Honestly, I'm in the middle but theres a lot of cockiness happening from Team Real all over here and Twitter.

Obviously it's subjective, and we see what we want to see. I can't imagine something cockier than "I could have done this", despite the elaborate and complex nature of this leak. I feel like there's very few who could say that, Omni probably being one of them.

 

[CantGetRidOfTheRidley]

My final hangup is with the original story itself. If Im not mistaken, the story goes that the snapchat video had screenshots taken of it, then those screenshots were posted to a discord, then those posted to 4chan, where they were found and went all over the place. Why hasn’t the person who actually saw the video and took the screenshots spoken up? With this blowing up like it has, youd think we’d hear about this person(s) and they could add some more credibility to this, but as is we kind of just have to take a 4chan user at there word that the images did come from video screenshots, and not from someone just making it appear that way.

4chan is an anonymous imageboard, there would be very little way to prove a person who posted it was that person, though if you're posting anonymously that's probably because you DON'T want attention. But what would they even say? "Yeah I posted these snapchats intended just for me and some friends and posted them everywhere and jeopordized a guy's livelihood, AMA"? Most legit leakers typically just dump the stuff and run.

 

[Deleted member]

If Grinch is trying to surpass the Joker, who will he use as his version of Two-Face?

 

[Blu99]

I can forgive this, if you only use YouTube as a source for Smash news you'd be in the dark about most of this debate.


Honestly, I'm in the middle but theres a lot of cockiness happening from Team Real all over here and Twitter.

The problem I have is he is rehashing everything he is saying. He is making a new video everytime something new happens in relation to this leak, and there's no way that constitutes a 15-20 minute video on it. If the man was patient enough he could put it in one or two videos.

It's the same reason I don't like Gamexplain, but they're making money at the end of the dayand I'm sat taking the piss out of them on a forum so what do I know

 

[Burb]

How cute!
Facts?
Ok

Yeah, facts. Like the background miraculously being wrong in the Grinch leak.

I get that you want the leak to be real, but pretending that's a non-issue isn't going to magically make the 7 Grinch leak characters magically appear in the game. It's an issue whether you choose to consider it as such or not.

 

[Smartiicals]

At this rate I think the only way we are going to find any more evidence leaning to one side is basically a smash direct or a reveal, so it might be the most painful two week we've ever had. Sucks really.

 

[Paperchampion23]

While the context around the leak is important, it doesn't add super strong proof. Yes, the person mentioned in the leak is real. Yes he does work at print company. But that doesn't mean the leak can't be fake.
The mostly likely scenario at this point is somebody who does indeed work at that print shop, made this fake using the resources there and then sent it out.
The print shop has no known connections to Nintendo or Bandai Namco or the Grinch movie. The person named in the leak has made a statement saying he has no idea what this is about. Industry 'Insiders' seem to have knowledge that counters the leak in some way.

But honestly all that doesn't matter. If there was a badly photoshopped shrek in the character list and everything else was the same it would still be fake. Because the images in question are fake. That's that. One solid piece of evidence that counteracts the leak kills it. And we have several solid discrepancies between the leak background and the e3 background. That's enough to show it's fake.

- The print shop you mention is not the one he's currently working for (it's the old one), who has not responded to any comments except that the person works there.

- Randomly chose the Grinch? Really?

- The person has a legal obligation to deny anything. It also doesnt have to be him, it was a picture taken with a receipt that had his name on it

- Insiders have to prove why they think it's wrong. If Its just "Not the characters i was told" then you have to be really careful here because it's been known Nintendo has been giving fake characters out to spot leakers.

- a badly photoshopped character is not even comparable to this. The characters are not at all badly photoshopped. They all have depth to them and have been individually placed in front or behind other characters, while moving around nearly all of the characters due to that and requiring the person to create new art for many characters.

- so no, It doesn't prove it's fake....at all. It only proves that it's different and we still can't come to conclusions about anything.

Is it probable that in the empty battlefield, the one that should have been done from scratch all the big mistakes "The island who is even in the game battlefield, the left side of the battlefield, every crystal that was visible in a banner was there but Nintendo changed everything else. How probable is that Nintendo do BIG art changes at EXACTLY only the places that you couldn't see in the characters image.

Except it doesn't. It also changes art we can visibly see in the August banner. The castle behind Zeldas hand is missing from the leak background, and the cloud above Bayonetta has been changed, both of which are clearly visible the whole time.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Or it means he didn't bother to ask because he knew it wasn't possible.

With all the obvious characters that got snubbed from Melee and had to wait until Brawl, it's not really hard to imagine that Banjo-Kazooie was rejected from the get-go.

We're both assuming things, but my assumption is a little more in-line with what was said at face value. If you think Banjo was planned-but-rejected, that basically also means you think James Bond was as well. Is that the case for you?



Weren't the Grinch renders found, like, a full day ago?

As popular as GoldenEye was, I'd be willing to believe he was at least heavily considered. Rare was extremely buddy-buddy with Nintendo during the N64 era, so it would be at least reasonable during planning that he may be able to ask about them.

 

[Confirmation]

The thing that really kills me on the inside is having to go back to every already-discussed argument made for and against the leak every five minutes because some yokel isn't up to date

 

[Deleted member]

Can we acknowledge the fact that, if this leak is real, we'll be getting:
INKLING, RIDLEY, SIMON, K. ROOL, ISABELLE, ISAAC, GENO, MACH RIDER, CHORUS KIDS AND BANJO?!

 

[Rigumaro]

If this is fake, then whoever faked the leak likely won't ever come out because if the person in the company is the one who made this he's going to be in a lot of trouble for jeopardizing the integrity of his own job. On the other hand if the person who faked this isn't the person people traced this back to, they've committed identity theft - which is much worse.

Agreed. This is my most disliked thing about this leak. That we probably will never get some fun "reveal" of the fake leak artist, like Omni did, explaining his detailed process; because they'd be in big trouble. Eric Bricard, Marina or the other print shop (forgot its name) could sue for defamation or something like that.
Maybe they could do it anonymously, but honestly. it feels unlikely. The only reason the author would do that instead of leaving the mystery be is for recognition. If they can't do that, there's no point in it.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Honestly, the lack of a really high quality pic of that new poster means that unless that drops or official news that confirms this drops, in not going to believe it. And even then the paintings would have to not be traced images of other renders or seem lower quality than the official drawings... if it’s like that bomberman one, then we may never really know if it’s fake... but it would be better than what we have now

 

[SmashingXan2]

I meant some, sorry if It looked like it meant everyone as a whole. Whoops

Ah, no problem

 

[SushiRoll]

Whether it's real or not the circumstances around it are pretty odd. The Eric guy is in his 50s, and he knows who Isaac and Geno and the chorus kids are? Most hardcore gamers in their teens and twenties don't know these characters. And this guy is a professional in his 50s. Also "Lol **** Nintendo!" doesn't sound like a middle aged man, it sounds like a teenager. But then why behave this way at all? He is old enough and should have enough experience to know not to jeopardize his career and reputation over video games. Is it possible he did these things? Of course, but it seems very very unlikely.

On the other hand is it possible he's the scapegoat for the leak? So some guy frames him to lead people on a wild goose chase that ends where the guy works? To what end? To keep people occupied for an extra 6 hours? To ruin this guy's reputation? Again possible but unlikely. Either if its real or fake it doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[gloop898]

So I'm 95% sure the Grinch Leak is fake, but I do think some of the characters on it may be getting in.
So here's my prediction that will almost certainly be 100% wrong.

Direct Early November:
Incineraor, Ken, Isaac revealed.

End of November:
Surprise final character trailer drop being Mach Rider

Game Awards:
Special Announcement of Smash DLC, Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[Rigumaro]

He and Smashified are still kind of idiots for making an outcry over the Banjo render.

I only follow Omni, and he clearly said from the beginning that it wasn't based on any existing renders. I think it was someone else from the Smashified team who said that. I know they're part of the same group, but it's unfair including him in this drama.

 

[Ura]

Whether it's real or not the circumstances around it are pretty odd. The Eric guy is in his 50s, and he knows who Isaac and Geno and the chorus kids are? Most hardcore gamers in their teens and twenties don't know these characters. And this guy is a professional in his 50s. Also "Lol **** Nintendo!" doesn't sound like a middle aged man, it sounds like a teenager. But then why behave this way at all? He is old enough and should have enough experience to know not to jeopardize his career and reputation over video games. Is it possible he did these things? Of course, but it seems very very unlikely.

On the other hand is it possible he's the scapegoat for the leak? So some guy frames him to lead people on a wild goose chase that ends where the guy works? To what end? To keep people occupied for an extra 6 hours? To ruin this guy's reputation? Again possible but unlikely. Either if its real or fake it doesn't pass the smell test.

Which is exactly why this is the most trippiest thing i've ever seen in Smash speculation. Nothing makes sense.

 

[vigneault.charles]

I've listed before why those changes might be in. Again, art touch ups made in the past months, the blank background used in promos not intended to be the one used for the character art, and that's assuming it's actually not there and not absent due to camera oddities.

To appeal to a different line of reasoning for the validity of this leak. If this is fake, why doesn't ACP, the company implicited, make a statement saying it's fake? The other company saw fit to, and do you think any company, ESPECIALLY one that probably works with other very big companies with potentially confidential stuff, wants people going around saying they're a leaker and they've leaked stuff when they haven't? If this was fake and slander, the company would have their PR people already know about it tenfold. We're not dealing with some backstreet thirdworld gamestore putting copies of a game early on the shelf here, this is a big company that has protocols for this situation.

And like I said, even the ice block on the left of the island haven't move. And the only visible crystal on the left part of the battlefield over Cloud knee is there. They change the 4 others. What are the odds/probability of Nintendo doing all those changes ONLY on hidden parts of the battlefield. You have 4 crystals and 1 visible on top of Cloud, and Nintendo would have changed every crystal and the shape of the stage except the one who was showing before, it is still there, at the exact same position with the same angle...

That's thought odds.

 

[KMDP]

It's okay to say "I don't know."

Indeed it is.

Morning, all.

You know, one of the biggest points of contention with the Grinch Leak is that it's "Too Good to be True", that we expected Ken, Incineroar and "nebulous Square Enix rep", and most of the leak sources say this, when what we're actually getting is "Ken, Shadow, Isaac, Geno, Chorus Kids, Mach Rider and Banjo".

But... maybe that's the point?

It wouldn't be that hard to either: A) put out a fake character list to catch leakers or B) pay off known leakers to say Ken and Incineroar; to intentionally back up Sakurai's statements to not expect much, to eventually blow our minds when the truth outs and it turns out it's more than we're getting.

We already know that Nintendo is changing their tactic regarding leaks this time, but maybe, just maybe, the method we assumed that they'd be using was wrong?

 

[Smartiicals]

Another thing that doesn't add up for me is these picks are very 'internet cultured' picks.

If you don't understand what I mean, look at Smash 4's additions; they added characters like Pac-man, mega man and even the wii fit trainer. These guys most people can recognise. But if you ask most people aka family members or people who even are aware of video games they won't know who half these guys are, and I'm not sure if Sakurai would want this. But then I could be stupid for saying this due to the additions so far, and it seems like this game is more for 'hardcore' Nintendo and smash fans.

 

[Deleted member]

I only follow Omni, and he clearly said from the beginning that it wasn't based on any existing renders. I think it was someone else from the Smashified team who said that. I know they're part of the same group, but it's unfair including him in this drama.

Yeah, how dare we sully the name of a guy who made a fake leak just to promote his YouTube series!

 

[Blu99]

After all this speculation, I still have no idea who those chorus kids are, would anyone care to elaborate?

 

[The DanMan051]

Whether it's real or not the circumstances around it are pretty odd. The Eric guy is in his 50s, and he knows who Isaac and Geno and the chorus kids are? Most hardcore gamers in their teens and twenties don't know these characters. And this guy is a professional in his 50s. Also "Lol **** Nintendo!" doesn't sound like a middle aged man, it sounds like a teenager. But then why behave this way at all? He is old enough and should have enough experience to know not to jeopardize his career and reputation over video games. Is it possible he did these things? Of course, but it seems very very unlikely.

On the other hand is it possible he's the scapegoat for the leak? So some guy frames him to lead people on a wild goose chase that ends where the guy works? To what end? To keep people occupied for an extra 6 hours? To ruin this guy's reputation? Again possible but unlikely. Either if its real or fake it doesn't pass the smell test.

The fact his name was included but the top part wasn't scribbled out, leaving it easily decipherable, has me thinking it's what you said; someone used his name to send people on a wild goose chase.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Weren't the Grinch renders found, like, a full day ago?

The renders aren't the issue, it's the fact that they're being used to make commercial grade products that you would expect to see with official advertising. Without expressed consent from Universal/Illumination, what we see could be considered bootleg products and literally who makes bootleg Grinch cutouts for fun and willingly shows it off?

 

[CosmicQuark]

Or it means he didn't bother to ask because he knew it wasn't possible.

With all the obvious characters that got snubbed from Melee and had to wait until Brawl, it's not really hard to imagine that Banjo-Kazooie was rejected from the get-go.

We're both assuming things, but my assumption is a little more in-line with what was said at face value. If you think Banjo was planned-but-rejected, that basically also means you think James Bond was as well. Is that the case for you?



Weren't the Grinch renders found, like, a full day ago?

The difference being, Banjo & Kazooie are platforming characters that Sakurai himself said in that very statement were an "obvious inclusion". The only barrier he mentioned was legal issues, and so I don't think this strains as much credulity as people think (as I've been saying for months).

I agree I think it's hyperbolic to say they were "considered" for Smash, because we can't know. Likely, though, given that statement, and the only reason I see for not including them at the time would have been the Rare buyout.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Passive-aggressive reminder, this is smash speculation, you can believe whatever you want, you can hype irresponsibly, its just vidya gaems at the end of the day.

 

[mbvswb]

The cockiness is ever so slightly infuriating, and it makes me incredibly concerned for the fallout if this turns out to be fake. People won't think first that Sakurai's given them a Smash game with 72-ish ****ing characters - they'll be more pissed that he hasn't given them characters he never promised and were only present in a leak.

This. I genuinely hate everyone assuming their fave is in because of this. Its gonna turn ugly if only a few characters get in.