Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

can i be on Team Please God Just Let Us Have One Single New Character Reveal Without Leaks

Wish granted!!!

 

[Chrono.]

Another funny artwork, apparently from an anon on /v/.

Wish granted!!!

K.Rool my dude.

 

[Koopaul]

I'd argue Ridley, Daisy, and Everyone Is Here.

Almost nobody talked about the Verg leak before E3, so if anyone was leaked barely anyone heard about it. I know I didn't.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I don't think there's as much of a learning curve as you're implying. People generally get the gist of an item after using it. If the question block always did the same thing, people would pick up on it.

Weird thing too, the Question Block Vine would probably have a Piranha Plant's head sprout from it's beginning as we've seen since revisioning the concept in SMB3, compared to SMB1's regular beanstalk depiction.

And again, in GS, Psynergy could be used via certain items throughout the game, even right in the beginning:

So Growth being an usable item like this makes perfect sense in-universe.

(Imagine that, Sakurai doing his research on the conventions of Psynergy utilization and applying that to Smash)

 

[PLATINUM7]

I'd argue Ridley, Daisy, and Everyone Is Here.

Almost nobody talked about the Verg leak before E3, so if anyone was leaked barely anyone heard about it. I know I didn't.

There was a text leak on 4chan leaking the E3 stuff.

But yeah it went largely unnoticed.

 

[Misery Brick]

I'd argue Ridley, Daisy, and Everyone Is Here.

Almost nobody talked about the Verg leak before E3, so if anyone was leaked barely anyone heard about it. I know I didn't.

You’re right, barely anyone heard about it, but it was still out there in the wild before E3.
After all Verge and the 4chan leak put that info out, I just don’t think it was widely discussed at that time.

So I think it still counts.
At least there was Richter, Dark Samus, Chrom, and K. Rool.

 

[osby]

Wish granted!!!

You forgot Inklings weren't leaked. Literally nobody saw them coming.

 

[staindgrey]

I'd argue Ridley, Daisy, and Everyone Is Here.

Almost nobody talked about the Verg leak before E3, so if anyone was leaked barely anyone heard about it. I know I didn't.

Yeah, but Ridley had been in "leaks" since Brawl, and Daisy isn't exactly a wild guess.

Richter is the only character in this hype cycle who had literally no one leaking his inclusion before the trailer. He caught everyone by surprise.

 

[Noipoi]

You forgot Inklings weren't leaked. Literally nobody saw them coming.

I still can't believe Inkling's in after 17 years.

 

[OurBoyRoy]

N3ON You asked me a few pages back, about if my source had heard anything about minecraft.

I will ask them, it never came up in our conversation but its one of the things i plan on asking about since the "microsoft source" i assume should know, or should have known what was going on with minecraft.

I will say that since my source seemed to have been initially believing box theory/vergeben because of this quote:

"i was firmly in the Ken/Inceneroar/Isabelle camp for the entire time and mostly discredited everything else. The SE rep was 50/50 , and i figured Banjo was DLC. "

my assumption is the whole "minecraft content" in some form vergeben was talking about was believed by them BUT that is just me speculating based on that quote of them telling me what they believed BEFORE the grinch leak.

If this leads to any further confirmation of Banjo being in the game or the level of certainty they have, please share it. Thanks.

 

[HyruleHero]

So, assuming the leak is real (I'll remain half-in-half), what do you guys think will be the order of reveals? Here's what I'm thinking...

Geno: Announced prior to the potential Smash Direct

Isaac: Starts off the Smash Direct

Shadow & Ken: Echo Fighter showcase

Chorus Kids & Mach Rider: revealed during the direct

Banjo-Kazooie: Revealed at the very end of the direct

Isaac: Announced in seperate direct because he was planned earlier

Geno: Open direct, not as much of a pull for some smash fans so starting off with a very select big hitter

Ken: Echo fighter announced after Geno then goes onto Sakurai talking

Chorus Kids: Break inbetween to show off more music as they sing a track and reveals them

Shadow: another echo announcement

Mach Rider: shown after a preview of spirits, then Sakurai starts to sign off

Banjo and Kazooie: Sakurai signs off and a jiggy transition screen (like in Banjo games) shows up - Banjo reveal, followed by a Banjo-Threeie tease at the end coming to switch and Xbox.

You can probably tell Im a huge Banjo fan

 

[osby]

I still can't believe Inkling's in after 17 years.

They were too hip for Smash, but Sakurai finally added them when Splatoon 2 made the first Inklings classics that worth putting in Smash.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I see people saying this mystery plant is from Golden Sun but may I suggest that said plant may belong to Harvest Moon or Stardew Valley. I heard Sakurai is a fan of the later.

 

[N3ON]

I still can't believe Inkling's in after 17 years.

It's been so long, just let me sleep. x_x

I see people saying this mystery plant is from Golden Sun but may I suggest that said plant may belong to Harvest Moon or Stardew Valley. I heard Sakurai is a fan of the later.

You may not.

 

[Phyr]

Morning guys.

Any news after the gs irem? I have read somewhere that therr is a leak with even more charaxters? Wtf?

 

[Midget Master]

Got some takes here. Traffic was rough so they might be a little cold by now but you can feel free to pop 'em in the microwave if you like. Mostly just looking to organize my thoughts on what we've seen so far on this dumb little sprout.

So the thing does look like Growth. And it's pretty easy to see in my mind's eye a use for it that reflects Growth from the games - we've only just got ladder attacks in this game, so it seems like it would make a decent amount of sense that ladders would be in more places than 75m and Wrecking Crew. So we pick this thing up, toss it, and it grows a vine ladder. Seems legit so far.

But is it Growth? I've seen a lot of other ideas.

Could it be the generic grass item, with the bubble for highlighting? I don't think so. We've seen what looks very much like that item, that screenshot with the Mega Man % that's come up in here a few times, too lazy to fetch it. The point of that item is to look like the grass from SMB2, and this one doesn't. And I do not believe an item needs further highlighting in Smash - there's an arrow for that purpose.

Could it be related to the Healing Field? I... guess. As I understand it, the Healing Field we know of was labelled the "Team Healing Field" in Japanese. Could this be some sort of solo version of it? It could be.

So in that case, then, could it be just a generic Smash item? Certainly. Whether it be a Healing Field or something else, I can neither disprove that at the moment nor do I see any reason to assume otherwise... but for one little thing. We just haven't seen this thing before. The Team Healing Field was in the E3 demo. So if this was only a counterpart to that, why are we only seeing it now?

The design is similar, but the symbols don't match up perfectly. And the bubble concept is just... strange to me. I believe it is quite credible to think that, given Golden Sun's puzzles and exploration elements were always tied more to different types of Psynergy than to items, something like this is an effective rep for the series. But it's hard to represent stuff like that with just an item - particularly were you to use other types of Psynergy, those are obtained by equipping various kinda random artifact things.

But say that this bubble we pick up lets us "use" Growth. I think it actually communicates its potential effect really clearly - it's an item with a symbol of a sprout on it, which when thrown creates a vine. You don't need to be a Golden Sun aficionado to make the connection between a picture of a sprout and a climbable vine. Major props for clarity of design right there. Since Growth also never had an item tied to it, they're free to go with essentially a floating version of its in-game icon. As Golden Sun is a lot more esoteric than stuff like Mario (everybody knows what those mushrooms are gonna do, even though it's really far removed from the logical outcomes of "touching" a mushroom), I think it makes a lot of sense to approach designing an item for it from a clarity-first angle.

So I think there's a good chance this thing is Growth. Obviously, I say again, we can't be sure of anything. 'sall circumstantial, everything is, that's what makes this leak so exciting/infuriating. Now, I do not see a world in which this item is Growth and Isaac is not a playable character. The item concept on its own, while possessing nice clarity of design, is not sufficiently compelling or iconic in my mind as to necessitate its inclusion without it being there to represent something. Good item concepts for Golden Sun I believe are rather few and far between (the only thing that came to mind is perhaps a Psynergy Stone? They are certainly memorable items for those who played the game, but as Smash lacks a PP-style resource, what would they do for you?) and so I don't think they'd need to jump at the chance to put one in if Isaac was only returning as an AT or not at all.

Now, say we follow this line of thought to its conclusion - this item is Growth, Isaac is a playable character... is the Grinch leak confirmed? I don't think that's necessarily true, but it's certainly not a strike against it. Isaac's merits on his own have been explored on other people's time, but I think that he's a popular and unique enough pick that he could be considered even outside of this leak being real. We can talk about the background and the complicated circumstances surrounding the thing til we're blue in the face, but we're not going to be able to say just yet.

So in summary: When in Vale, do as the adepts do. Psynergy is what Golden Sun was all about, if this item is Psynergy it's probably the best possible item to rep it, and if it's getting repped, I cannot fathom why Isaac would not be along for the ride.

 

[Zinith]

They were too hip for Smash, but Sakurai finally added them when Splatoon 2 made the first Inklings classics that worth putting in Smash.

Inklings are my favorite Zelda enemies

 

[BlondeLombax]

Can we appreciate some of the Photoshops we've gotten out of this leak?

Spoiler: Seriously, these are great.

 

[Misery Brick]

So do you guys think Mach Rider would be “confirmed” as a woman in this, or do you think it’s pretty much going to be just left as masculine or referred to as a guy?
I think it’d be cool to get another badass lady in this, especially to help differentiate Mach Rider from Captain Falcon a bit, even if the change is barely notable.

I’m just asking this as I think most material referred to Mach Rider being a male after the last entry.

 

[osby]

Can we appreciate some of the Photoshops we've gotten out of this leak?

Spoiler: Seriously, these are great.

I liked the last one, but I think they are a bit mean towards Incineroar and Steve, haha.

 

[Flynn__]

Each time I come to this thread, I do it with one eye closed out of fear of finding the leak deconfirmed

So do you guys think Mach Rider would be “confirmed” as a woman in this, or do you think it’s pretty much going to be just left as masculine or referred to as a guy?
I think it’d be cool to get another badass lady in this, especially to help differentiate Mach Rider from Captain Falcon a bit, even if the change is barely notable.

I’m just asking this as I think most material referred to Mach Rider being a male after the last entry.

I hope Sakurai makes them a woman, it would be nice to have another Samus character. They can take their helmet off in their victory screen and show the beautiful, this-time-not-hypersexualized woman from the original game.

But I suppose they'll make them of ambiguous gender.

 

[papagenos]

If this leads to any further confirmation of Banjo being in the game or the level of certainty they have, please share it. Thanks.

If I hear anything more, I will.

 

[beans]

Woke up from my slumber.
Are my hopes and dreams crushed yet?

 

[N3ON]

Got some takes here. Traffic was rough so they might be a little cold by now but you can feel free to pop 'em in the microwave if you like. Mostly just looking to organize my thoughts on what we've seen so far on this dumb little sprout.

So the thing does look like Growth. And it's pretty easy to see in my mind's eye a use for it that reflects Growth from the games - we've only just got ladder attacks in this game, so it seems like it would make a decent amount of sense that ladders would be in more places than 75m and Wrecking Crew. So we pick this thing up, toss it, and it grows a vine ladder. Seems legit so far.

But is it Growth? I've seen a lot of other ideas.

Could it be the generic grass item, with the bubble for highlighting? I don't think so. We've seen what looks very much like that item, that screenshot with the Mega Man % that's come up in here a few times, too lazy to fetch it. The point of that item is to look like the grass from SMB2, and this one doesn't. And I do not believe an item needs further highlighting in Smash - there's an arrow for that purpose.

Could it be related to the Healing Field? I... guess. As I understand it, the Healing Field we know of was labelled the "Team Healing Field" in Japanese. Could this be some sort of solo version of it? It could be.

So in that case, then, could it be just a generic Smash item? Certainly. Whether it be a Healing Field or something else, I can neither disprove that at the moment nor do I see any reason to assume otherwise... but for one little thing. We just haven't seen this thing before. The Team Healing Field was in the E3 demo. So if this was only a counterpart to that, why are we only seeing it now?

The design is similar, but the symbols don't match up perfectly. And the bubble concept is just... strange to me. I believe it is quite credible to think that, given Golden Sun's puzzles and exploration elements were always tied more to different types of Psynergy than to items, something like this is an effective rep for the series. But it's hard to represent stuff like that with just an item - particularly were you to use other types of Psynergy, those are obtained by equipping various kinda random artifact things.

But say that this bubble we pick up lets us "use" Growth. I think it actually communicates its potential effect really clearly - it's an item with a symbol of a sprout on it, which when thrown creates a vine. You don't need to be a Golden Sun aficionado to make the connection between a picture of a sprout and a climbable vine. Major props for clarity of design right there. Since Growth also never had an item tied to it, they're free to go with essentially a floating version of its in-game icon. As Golden Sun is a lot more esoteric than stuff like Mario (everybody knows what those mushrooms are gonna do, even though it's really far removed from the logical outcomes of "touching" a mushroom), I think it makes a lot of sense to approach designing an item for it from a clarity-first angle.

So I think there's a good chance this thing is Growth. Obviously, I say again, we can't be sure of anything. 'sall circumstantial, everything is, that's what makes this leak so exciting/infuriating. Now, I do not see a world in which this item is Growth and Isaac is not a playable character. The item concept on its own, while possessing nice clarity of design, is not sufficiently compelling or iconic in my mind as to necessitate its inclusion without it being there to represent something. Good item concepts for Golden Sun I believe are rather few and far between (the only thing that came to mind is perhaps a Psynergy Stone? They are certainly memorable items for those who played the game, but as Smash lacks a PP-style resource, what would they do for you?) and so I don't think they'd need to jump at the chance to put one in if Isaac was only returning as an AT or not at all.

Now, say we follow this line of thought to its conclusion - this item is Growth, Isaac is a playable character... is the Grinch leak confirmed? I don't think that's necessarily true, but it's certainly not a strike against it. Isaac's merits on his own have been explored on other people's time, but I think that he's a popular and unique enough pick that he could be considered even outside of this leak being real. We can talk about the background and the complicated circumstances surrounding the thing til we're blue in the face, but we're not going to be able to say just yet.

So in summary: When in Vale, do as the adepts do. Psynergy is what Golden Sun was all about, if this item is Psynergy it's probably the best possible item to rep it, and if it's getting repped, I cannot fathom why Isaac would not be along for the ride.

Good post, this. And I hope it's not just my bias saying that.

 

[osby]

Woke up from my slumber.
Are my hopes and dreams crushed yet?

If your hopes and dreams includes me finishing my media studies assignment in time, then yes.

If they are about Grinch leak, not yet, it's 50/50 currently.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

They were too hip for Smash, but Sakurai finally added them when Splatoon 2 made the first Inklings classics that worth putting in Smash.

I think you mean too fresh.

Sorry, been playing a lot of Splatoon lately. It's infectious.

 

[DeniroSerafim]

I'd argue Ridley, Daisy, and Everyone Is Here.

Almost nobody talked about the Verg leak before E3, so if anyone was leaked barely anyone heard about it. I know I didn't.

Koopaul, nice to see you here! I go by Luke on DK Vine, always nice to see a familiar face! (Or name, but you know what I mean)

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Gruntilda best be with Banjo & Kazooie in some way if they truly are in.

Assist trophy, boss in Spirits, both.

I need to be able to beat Gruntilda with Bayonetta.

I don't know why that will satisfy me, but it will.

Spoiler

 

[beans]

If your hopes and dreams includes me finishing my media studies assignment in time, then yes.

If they are about Grinch leak, not yet, it's 50/50 currently.

Oh no, I was betting money on that

 

[osby]

I think you mean too fresh.

Sorry, been playing a lot of Splatoon lately. It's infectious.

I don't know the lingo young'uns use these days, I'm almost 21.

 

[The_Intruder]

It seems the nightmare still goes on , They said the lightning never strikes twice the same place but I think with this one it could be wrong (ESRB leak Part 2).

 

[Zinith]

Gruntilda best be with Banjo & Kazooie in some way if they truly are in.

Assist trophy, boss in Spirits, both.

I need to be able to beat Gruntilda with Bayonetta.

I don't know why that will satisfy me, but it will.

Spoiler

You know those Gruntilda poems Venus of the Desert Bloom is making?

Just imagine something like that in the actual game, almost like Codec Calls...

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Wait. What the hell happened to Jigglypuffs eyes lol

 

[beans]

Wait. What the hell happened to Jigglypuffs eyes lol View attachment 172242View attachment 172243

wait a minute, a post explained this

 

[Gyrom8]

So do you guys think Mach Rider would be “confirmed” as a woman in this, or do you think it’s pretty much going to be just left as masculine or referred to as a guy?
I think it’d be cool to get another badass lady in this, especially to help differentiate Mach Rider from Captain Falcon a bit, even if the change is barely notable.

I’m just asking this as I think most material referred to Mach Rider being a male after the last entry.

Maybe they'll pull a Pyro and leave Mach Rider's gender ambiguous. That'd be okay: leaves it up to the player's interpretation.

 

[beans]

I'm not sure if I'm late to the game with this one (I went back to where the leak was discovered in the thread to catch up) but as someone who works in video, I think comparisons like this are worth examining to compare how the video compression of snapchat itself or the photo compression of the screenshot would have affected the image.

For example, you see in the leaked empty-battlefield that the whites are much more like solid shapes than gradients, and that the darks are muddier. I think that could actually explain some of the weird shapes. When video/photo compression tries to make an image smaller than it is, it has to turn several pixels into one pixel. The way it does this is determined by an algorithm, and if this is real, it looks like snapchat's in this case is inclined to prioritize high contrast even if it obscures the shape somewhat. I think this would explain some of the complaints with snake and olimar's shadows. the shadows in those cases may not have been a dark enough shape, and so the photo compression would have prioritized the bright battlefield stage ground over the low-contrast shadows. This is also consistent with puff's weird eyes, because the bright white circles, again, turn into weird shapes just because the video compression itself favors light colors over mid-range tones.

However, although I want to believe this is real, this itself doesn't necessarily mean it's real so much as it would mean that it definitely was a snapchat. It does mean that I don't think puff's eyes or missing shadows or other slight distortions are grounds for disproving it, though.

Here, this explains some of the weird colors

 

[osby]

Maybe they'll pull a Pyro and leave Mach Rider's gender ambiguous. That'd be okay: leaves it up to the player's interpretation.

Well, we know how well leaving things to player's interpretation gone from Bowsette.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Wait. What the hell happened to Jigglypuffs eyes lol View attachment 172242View attachment 172243

She saw some ****.

''Wait. Is that bird friends with a bear?"
''Wait. We can get run over by another motorcycle? I think I'm out."
''Yeah. I just put people to sleep man. I can't handle a wooden doll that's actually a star. I quit."

 

[extremeturkey]

Have y'all still not figured it out yet?

It's a Psynergy item you can use, and it can contain a number of psynergy spells, including Growth. The spell it will cast when you use it is displayed inside the bubble. That's why it's inside a bubble.

Here's Growth's icon from Golden Sun (it's tiny; zoom in) https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net.../Growth.gif/revision/latest?cb=20080224082350

 

[Deleted member]

Smashboards tells the story,
Of a sociopath leaker.

Trust your eyes!
Smashboards never lies!