Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

I think the only moves from Simon that haven't been shown are Jab and Down Smash, right?

Jab might have been shown off, we have no clue if it's his jab or tilt. It's the attack Simon uses when Sakurai gives him the Bayonetta treatment by saying his attacks are a bit slow. But yeah, down smash is the only one we know for sure wasn't shown outside of grabs

 

[TheCJBrine]

So, the burden of proof concept works for both sides...

...these insider guys may as well say nothing at all (especially those guys dropping hints for spoilers), this just keeps going into a neutral state...

 

[Untouch]

can't be in 2016.... with the grinch things

Nah this actually very slightly helps it actually, the movie was in production in 2016. (I doubt the marketing would have been done then though).

 

[larlargaming]

No, not the point.

Ill break it down for you. If fake, here's what the leaker has accomplished miraculously:

Art:
1. Successfully recreated the background of the banner to various degrees of success (this would be his one problem)

2. Moved and shifted nearly 40 characters on the banner (a photoshopper knows this is a lot of work)

3. Moving said characters required like 50% of them to receive additional art (Jigglypuff, Roy, Greninja and more have body parts hidden behind other characters, and moving them causes those parts to be revealed.) If fake, the leaker has drawn all the additional art needed.

4. Create 7 handcrafted renders for 7 new characters, all of which have no reputable source for inspiration (in fact, a troll tried disproving Chorus Kids render by making a fake one themselves, similar to Duck Hunt in Smash 4). After nearly 36 hours, NOBODY has found existing renders. All of them are original.

5. Of the 7, Isaac is using psyenergy people normally do not associate him with, and The Conductor is the central character in the chorus kids render, something most people wouldn't do.

6. Caused the Smashified team to claim the Banjo render as theirs, only to get hopelessly shut down and memed.

7. All 7 new renders fit in with the art style and from what we can see and people BELIEVE IT.

Background of the leaker:

1. The leak was made to look unintentional through Snapchat. Sends it to a friend or friends. Said friends leak it. Weird but okay, not posted directly on 4chan or another leak site. Basically they leaked it with the apparent plot twist of acting like they didn't want to leak it. Amazing.

2. The leaker created images with all of the above 7 points I made in the art section, only to print it out using Autocad, cardboard paper provided by his job, complete with fold out instructions of how to display it. On top of this, the leaker makes sure to take an image from really far of his good ****ing artwork, all to doop people into thinking it's a cardboard advert.

3. Said leaker plans and attaches Grinch artwork from the office to further solidify his leak. He thinks "if they find out my background, they'll surely see that job also makes these!" Amazing.

4. Said leaker scrubs out a receipt with his name or the name of his co-worker poorly! On purpose! Because he knows the internet will try and find the name! That said name will lead them to his LinkedIn page that connects him to his job. This plan was made YEARS in advance to carefully accomplish his goal of fooling people he has a legit leak at his job. Amazing.

5. Said leaker knew people would get this far, but said leaker apparently didn't think about the consequences of him getting arrested or dragging his or his colleagues name through the mud to find more work. Totally plausible.

/s


See where I'm going with this? It is 9000x harder for me to see it being fake, than to actually believe it's real. I cannot, for the life of me, logically see how someone can manage to do ALL of this, without a major inconsistency ****ing it up. And so far, it hasn't.

honestly this is true
go through all that and its fake, bruh

 

[Mutsukki]

As someone who is into science, "proof" can be a difficult term--which is why I prefer the use of the word evidence, not proof. Which is why I was saying putting that semantic disagreement aside, as I switched to using the word evidence. We have evidence this person used to work for the company, may be working with a similar company. We have evidence that, if this were to be faked, it would be quite elaborate--the simplest explanation being it's real. We've already established the evidence of its validity--now it's the turn to find evidence that contradicts it--evidence that is equal to or more compelling.

What I don't like is when people create an unapproachable barrier of "proof" by shifting the burden of proof. Which is why I'm not particularly a fan of using the term myself.

That's fine but burden of proof is absolutely something that exists and that was used in the right context, even if it does not talk about "proof" itself.

That aside, you are not wrong, but there's also plenty of evidence (if anything all of it till now is circumstantial from both sides) showing that graphics don't match, the Liam saying the guy denied involvement and the company he's currently working on having nothing to do with either Nintendo OR Bamco. We're not exactly swimming on a sea of positive evidence either

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Nintendo for the love of... Give us something to end this stupid leak speculation already

Esrb leak didn't cause as big as a riot due to being more realistic and that the hydration level was much higher

I'm still leaning toward real but assuming fake for too good to be true reasons

And it might be real and fake at the same time with characters that are actually gonna be playable but wrong position

I'm almost ready to abandon thread I'm only doing ocastional pop ins to learn when a reveal is gonna happen

 

[mbvswb]

hey if we can get notable people here by talking **** about them let's talk abt Sakurai

 

[CantGetRidOfTheRidley]

Yeah, like how Brawl sold far less than Mele- oh, wait.

You mean the game that released on a console that everyone and their mother had sold better than one on Nintendo's least selling consoles? Shocking. Also I shouldn't have to say this but sales =/= quality.

 

[KingBroly]

It's real until it's proven fake. That's why people call them "leaks," and not "fakes."

This Grinch Leak just won't stay down.

 

[T-Hell]

Okay so basically everyone connected to ResetEra in some way (Jon, that Steve guy, now Serebii/Joe) are saying this is 100% fake.

The thing is that one would assume that with a leak of this proportion they would at least give it the benefit of the doubt. Straight up putting it down with a seemingly sense of urge and giving poor or no arguments against it, sounds more like they are intentionally doing "damage control" if you ask me.
Also I trust papagenos 300%, so, while still remaining somewhat skeptical, I'd say the banner is realer than life itself.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

No, not the point.

Ill break it down for you. If fake, here's what the leaker has accomplished miraculously:

Art:
1. Successfully recreated the background of the banner to various degrees of success (this would be his one problem)

2. Moved and shifted nearly 40 characters on the banner (a photoshopper knows this is a lot of work)

3. Moving said characters required like 50% of them to receive additional art (Jigglypuff, Roy, Greninja and more have body parts hidden behind other characters, and moving them causes those parts to be revealed.) If fake, the leaker has drawn all the additional art needed.

4. Create 7 handcrafted renders for 7 new characters, all of which have no reputable source for inspiration (in fact, a troll tried disproving Chorus Kids render by making a fake one themselves, similar to Duck Hunt in Smash 4). After nearly 36 hours, NOBODY has found existing renders. All of them are original.

5. Of the 7, Isaac is using psyenergy people normally do not associate him with, and The Conductor is the central character in the chorus kids render, something most people wouldn't do.

6. Caused the Smashified team to claim the Banjo render as theirs, only to get hopelessly shut down and memed.

7. All 7 new renders fit in with the art style and from what we can see and people BELIEVE IT.

Background of the leaker:

1. The leak was made to look unintentional through Snapchat. Sends it to a friend or friends. Said friends leak it. Weird but okay, not posted directly on 4chan or another leak site. Basically they leaked it with the apparent plot twist of acting like they didn't want to leak it. Amazing.

2. The leaker created images with all of the above 7 points I made in the art section, only to print it out using Autocad, cardboard paper provided by his job, complete with fold out instructions of how to display it. On top of this, the leaker makes sure to take an image from really far of his good ****ing artwork, all to doop people into thinking it's a cardboard advert.

3. Said leaker plans and attaches Grinch artwork from the office to further solidify his leak. He thinks "if they find out my background, they'll surely see that job also makes these!" Amazing.

4. Said leaker scrubs out a receipt with his name or the name of his co-worker poorly! On purpose! Because he knows the internet will try and find the name! That said name will lead them to his LinkedIn page that connects him to his job. This plan was made YEARS in advance to carefully accomplish his goal of fooling people he has a legit leak at his job. Amazing.

5. Said leaker knew people would get this far, but said leaker apparently didn't think about the consequences of him getting arrested or dragging his or his colleagues name through the mud to find more work. Totally plausible.

/s


See where I'm going with this? It is 9000x harder for me to see it being fake, than to actually believe it's real. I cannot, for the life of me, logically see how someone can manage to do ALL of this, without a major inconsistency ****ing it up. And so far, it hasn't.

Eh, having new renders isn't really a pro, the picture is so low quality we can't tell if they're actually good renders or not, and they're pretty small too, it wouldn't require a whole lot of effort to make seven renders to that scale.

 

[Noipoi]

Yeah, like how Brawl sold far less than Mele- oh, wait.

Exactly.

Money isn't to be lost by appealing to more broader casual audiences. All you lose is some dedicated fans who aren't liking the changes made to the game.
That's not to say those fans and their opinions don't matter, but a few guys leaving isn't gonna make a dent in the sales.

 

[osby]

hey if we can get notable people here by talking **** about them let's talk abt Sakurai

Let's not, Smash fandom already talks **** about Sakurai far more than the guy deserves.

 

[lightdrago]

Honestly Joe thinking it's sketchy is solid enough reason for me to be skeptical. I could count the amount of times Joe's been wrong with this sort of thing on one hand and have fingers to spare.

And to be fair, everyone thought Alomomola was a Luvdisc evolution so that one shouldn't even count.

It honestly should have. Would have made both of them somewhat relevant. >_>

 

[Deleted member]

I was laughing because I like the idea, not because I was mocking you (sorry if it came off that way).

Geno's following is really weird if you think about it (but in no way unbelievable); he's the epitome of an Ensemble Dark Horse. Moreso than literally any other character in Smash, I feel.

The new developments are a never-ending merry-go-round. It's fun.

Apologies in advance, but...
From Wikipedia: "The burden of proof is the obligation of a party in a trial to produce the evidence that will prove the claims they have made against the other party."

Those who claim it's real have to prove it's veracity, but those who claim it's fake have to prove their claim as well.

Exactly, and since the Leak was put out as a 'real' thing, Burden of Proof is then on the leak itself; it must be proven real; not the other way around.

 

[osby]

You mean the game that released on a console that everyone and their mother had sold better than one on Nintendo's least selling consoles? Shocking. Also I shouldn't have to say this but sales =/= quality.

You talked about Odyssey's sales and PLG's sale numbers you learned via clairvoyance. Also, then what equals to quality? Your opinions, I assume.

 

[mbvswb]

Let's not, Smash fandom already talks **** about Sakurai far more than the guy deserves.

I 100% agree I was just kidding about Joe

 

[CosmicQuark]

The thing is that one would assume that with a leak of this proportion they would at least give it the benefit of the doubt. Straight up putting it down with a seemingly sense of urge and giving poor or no arguments against it, sounds more like they are intentionally doing "damage control" if you ask me.
Also I trust papagenos 300%, so, while still remaining somewhat skeptical, I'd say the banner is realer than life itself.

After this is said and done, whether it's fake or not, I'm going to have a list of sites/journalists that I trust and don't trust.

 

[Mrplutoguy112]

Whats happening today on this discussion?

Whatcha all talking and discussing about today?

Is it just more leaks and possibilities for new characters or what?

 

[Noipoi]

So Joe Merrick thinks the leak is sketchy? On the one hand he's seen his fair share of leaks, but on the other he thought the Alola starters were fake, so let's wait and see.

 

[Deleted member]

You mean the game that released on a console that everyone and their mother had sold better than one on Nintendo's least selling consoles? Shocking. Also I shouldn't have to say this but sales =/= quality.

Pretty sure Nintendo and Game Freak won't lose any sleep over a few people being unhappy as long as the games sell, which they will. Very well, I imagine.

 

[KMDP]

Well considering the trainwreck LGPE is looking to be, and how good Odyssey was, yeah I think that is a good philosophy. More is lost trying to appeal solely to casuals than trying to appeal solely to invested fans. I can think of far more games that went to garbage trying for the casual audience than the hardcore audience.

Having options is (almost) always better than not having options.

So, the burden of proof concept works for both sides...

Yes.

Exactly, and since the Leak was put out as a 'real' thing, Burden of Proof is then on the leak itself; it must be proven real; not the other way around.

If someone says: "It's fake" they have to say why (and, in doing so, prove it).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You mean the game that released on a console that everyone and their mother had sold better than one on Nintendo's least selling consoles? Shocking. Also I shouldn't have to say this but sales =/= quality.

You know, I'm really tired of seeing people meme about Brawl. Brawl set the goddamn standard for content, a huge mode which while admittedly, wasn't THAT good, it was a cool idea which shows there was care put into it with those cutscenes (Except for the Great Maze my god that's lazy as ****). It added a bunch of stages, new and old, and changed the music system to something that allowed us to get even MORE content in form of songs. And then there's Assist Trophies and while sure, sometimes our favourites don't make the cut, but seeing them fight alongside others brings joy to many people, I myself was absolutely amazed whem 2 games later, a kickstarter origin indie character joined a game with the ****ing Mario brothers.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

As far as war goes, the only war I'm seeing is between the four parties trying to prove the other wrong (most notably Vegeta and the Grinch guy).

 

[TheCJBrine]

The thing is that one would assume that with a leak of this proportion they would at least give it the benefit of the doubt. Straight up putting it down with a seemingly sense of urge and giving poor or no arguments against it, sounds more like they are intentionally doing "damage control" if you ask me.
Also I trust papagenos 300%, so, while still remaining somewhat skeptical, I'd say the banner is realer than life itself.

Y'know, I'm thinking about this myself.

"100% fake, it conflicts with my sources, who I can trust 100% because Nintendo totally isn't giving out leaker bait even though some others have said so, and I'm totally not trying to save my reputation as a spoiler-hinting insider!"

I'm sure not all insiders feel like this, but it sure seems that way to me, especially when the arguments for it being fake are all assumptions and are just as good as the arguments for it being real, and it can go either way.

-

Also, Smashified really tried to claim the Banjo-Kazooie render as theirs? I can't believe they forgot what their own art looks like.

 

[KMDP]

So Joe Merrick thinks the leak is sketchy?

Of course the leak is sketchy!

It's a drawing.

 

[Fenriraga]

Broke: If Shadow is in Ultimate it means we finally have more Sonic representation!

Woke: If Shadow is in Ultimate we can finally make Super Mario Bros Z a reality...

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

The thing is that one would assume that with a leak of this proportion they would at least give it the benefit of the doubt. Straight up putting it down with a seemingly sense of urge and giving poor or no arguments against it, sounds more like they are intentionally doing "damage control" if you ask me.
Also I trust papagenos 300%, so, while still remaining somewhat skeptical, I'd say the banner is realer than life itself.

Who would win:

Actual insiders with actual information
OR
papagenos ' second-hand source that he somewhat doubts himself

No disrespect to papagenos, but you're performing some amazing mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

also
HI JOE MERRICK! IF YOU CAN READ THIS I LOVE YOUR WEBSITE!

*Implying Joe might have been blind this whole time*
Now this is the turn in speculation I wanted to see.


Also if you aren't trying to have a specific user read your post and are only reffering to them (cough cough papagenos) you should probably stop tagging them. He's going to get a **** ton of alerts for people just mentioning his video....only saying because I was doing it earlier and then stopped when I realized how awful that must be.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

Whether the Grinch leak is real or not (it's real), can we all sit back for a moment and take into account that the result of a young adult's imagination has led to almost 250,000 messages of excitement for a game we barely know nothing about? That's bloody amazing.

 

[FlappyFalco]

So just for reference, a hypothetical fake leaker would have to:

• Post a text leak one month in advance on 4Chan (or use someone else's) and base the leak on that. Post in a different language to the one in the image for added validity.
• Find a disused LinkedIn account for someone who worked for any company related to Nintendo in some way (Bamco in this case)
• Change their SnapChat name to the person's name
• Pirate AutoCad or get access to a workplace that uses it
• Clear the Battlefield of characters using PhotoShop (or take the E3 one and realign it to be flat)
• Create renders for all 7 characters
• PhotoShop everyone back in
• Check what other contracts that company may currently have and arrive at the new Grinch movie
• Create the Grinch renders
• Print and cut everything out, making it look like one is a bracelet and the other is paper chandelier-like object
• Fling everything on to a table
• Take a SnapChat video, "write f*** Nintendo" in French and send it to another account
• Screenshot it the other account
• Sloppily paint out the SnapChat name in Windows Paint, making sure the transparency on the brush is turned up
• Post it to some Discord
• Watch the magic happen

Am I missing anything here? Because this seems far from impossible, honestly.

 

[SonicMario]

Honestly, however this ends up. This just makes me wish we got our Smash direct in earlier October after all.

In the case that is real, it would of shocked us all while we were still debating the Box. But those who believed the box theory would take their L in stride and just be as excited as everybody else that there's more characters then once thought.

In the case that's it's fake, we have an actual finale and can just chill and talk about the game our final thoughts on the roster (Whether or not it's truly just Incineroar & Ken or not) and just be excited for two months straight for the game itself. Oh, and also start preparing the DLC campaigns.

I mean based on rumors we're only about two weeks away from knowing the truth on this anyway. But just a little bit earlier would of been nice.

 

[Deleted member]

Broke: If Shadow is in Ultimate it means we finally have more Sonic representation!

Woke: If Shadow is in Ultimate we can finally make Super Mario Bros Z a reality...

Honestly, even if this is fake, I'm still fully expecting Shadow myself. It would be really, really weird if it didn't happen at this point, but I guess we'll have to wait and see, lol.

 

[doomedtacox]

Who would win:

Actual insiders with actual information
VS.
papagenos ' second-hand source that he somewhat doubts himself

No disrespect to papagenos, but you're performing some amazing mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion.

I'm under the impression that his source is some sort of insider, or he wouldn't have made the video.

 

[Deleted member]

Having options is (almost) always better than not having options.

Yes.

If someone says: "It's fake" they have to say why (and, in doing so, prove it).

People have been saying 'why' for fake. The leak was a bunch of pictures of what is supposed to be in the game, but no actual text to explain anything. The community itself created the 'proof' based on the pictures provided; the one who provided the 'leak' did nothing beyond give the leak itself. Its now on them to return and give their 'Why'; to give their rebuttal to the 'why not'. Thus Burden of proof is back in their court.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I hate this rumored esrb 2.0 now

Ever one is hating on each other

I'm this close to abandoning thread just to stay calm and come back when a direct or reveal is announced

 

[shinhed-echi]

Real or fake...


I just want to know where I can find that Mach Rider render. I REALLY do. It must look fantastic.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Broke: If Shadow is in Ultimate it means we finally have more Sonic representation!

Woke: If Shadow is in Ultimate we can finally make Super Mario Bros Z a reality...

What ever happened to SMBZ there was like one reboot episode and then he vanished again. Damn shame i liked it too..

 

[Deleted member]

The only thing that can prove the leak real is the upcoming announcements themselves.
Which is why I won't waste time pondering whether the leak is legit or not. That said, the "real until proven otherwise" mindset is kinda hilarious.
Y'all should consider why "guilty until proven innocent" doesn't work as a concept before talking about weird stuff like that.

That said, I can't blame you too much when it comes down to it. These periods of non-news are definitely dull, so the discussion itself is encouraged from my end. Just... I dunno. Try to think a bit more skeptically I guess. Again, everyone can make a great leak.

 

[mbvswb]

So off topic I know, and this will get buried

But...
Was anyone else even slightly disappointed the Gangplank Galleon remix wasnt more piratey? I love it as is but it's missing that pirate vibe the original and brawl versions had.