Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MysticKnives]

Yeah, that's a great boon for them - though on the other hand Falcon's in the same state as Morrigan of Darkstalkers, being known more for Smash rather than F-Zero, which can create some confusion here and there. Also personally, wasn't never into Captain Falcon's bombastic character in Smash-games - it kind of got old since fans drove it to death, and how it clashes with his more reserved canon game self.

However, as Mother-franchise has been long been stated to be finished since Mother 3,Ness being in Smash is more or less very fitting today.

Understandable. I like both versions of Falcon myself but I too prefer his more reserved, cool self in his old series. Smash is really the only game these two for example appear in for a long time. It’s unfortunate but that’s why I appreciate their inclusion. Of course as with what you mentioned there’s a difference between Ness and Falcon: Ness’ series was officially finished. Falcon’s series is just stuck in limbo

 

[Starcutter]

No joke though I would like them to return as Pokeball Pokemon.

.....

I'm keeping an eye on you.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Exactly. There's probably more to it than we know. The theory that he feels Zelda and Link generally represent the series well(as Ganondorf barely got in) isn't too unbelievable. It probably is more of a case he feels the ones with the Triforce are the only required characters at this point, and anyone else is far less important. But he still shows loves via AT's, Trophies, Music, etc. for multiple games. Many of the "one-offs" get representation in some way. Six Sages somewhat aside. >.>

To be honest, any of the Zelda ATs (with the exception of Tingle) would be better received as playable characters and definitely less polarizing than Geno.

 

[Morbi]

In regards to the current discussion I don't think it goes to the extreme one way or the other as far as franchise representation vs individual character merits are concerned, there's a balance to be found in between that. I think Sakurai certainly takes franchise representation into consideration, but it's more like an additional reason to include a character and never the sole reason. That's why we don't have characters like Ghirahim or Sylux, who would only get in because of the franchises they're from, and also why I feel DKC is underrepresented as it has two very good candidates in K. Rool and Dixie.

And further to that point, I doubt it is just finding that balance either, there are so many other factors. Most of which are circumstantial and while they might apply to one character or franchise, they might not necessarily apply to the other.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be honest, any of the Zelda ATs (with the exception of Tingle) would be better received as playable characters and definitely less polarizing than Geno.

Funny thing is Tingle is the only one I really want upgraded. Though I wouldn't be against Midna or Skull Kid either. Ghirahim doesn't do it for me, but eh.

Tingle was received quite well being playable in HW, though that may be part of the fact he's unplayable beyond the original WW in the US, due to them not porting the games over. He's not the most popular, obviously, but he's definitely been warmed up to. HW made him badass and notably used his more popular self. It was the Toon style that annoyed people(WW didn't help with him being a greedy slave-driver...).

Still one of my favorite options, but regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if the only Zelda newcomers we had were basically graphical updates again.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Tingle was received quite well being playable in HW, though that may be part of the fact he's unplayable beyond the original WW in the US, due to them not porting the games over. He's not the most popular, obviously, but he's definitely been warmed up to. HW made him badass and notably used his more popular self. It was the Toon style that annoyed people(WW didn't help with him being a greedy slave-driver...).

If Tingle ever becomes playable in a Smash game, this should be his Final Smash!

 

[N3ON]

.....

I'm keeping an eye on you.

not the bees

 

[Morbi]

Funny thing is Tingle is the only one I really want upgraded. Though I wouldn't be against Midna or Skull Kid either. Ghirahim doesn't do it for me, but eh.

Tingle was received quite well being playable in HW, though that may be part of the fact he's unplayable beyond the original WW in the US, due to them not porting the games over. He's not the most popular, obviously, but he's definitely been warmed up to. HW made him badass and notably used his more popular self. It was the Toon style that annoyed people(WW didn't help with him being a greedy slave-driver...).

Still one of my favorite options, but regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if the only Zelda newcomers we had were basically graphical updates again.

Honestly, that is why I got so excited for Smash Brothers again. If I did not see Link's Breath of the Wild design, I probably would have passed on speculation until we got a formal announcement with game-play. Obviously I would love to see a playable character, anyone would do; however, I am definitely not expecting it. I just want to be reinvigorated withe the existing characters.

 

[Starcutter]

I want Unown, Porygon2 and Scizor to return as PokéBall Mons, those three knew how turn the tables in free-for-alls.

I disagree with Unown, because is OBJECTIVELY better in every way.

Also, if we are talking about pokeball pokemon to come back, look no futher than ONIX. That one was a beast and pretty much one-hit killed if he hit you with his body. Think snorlax, but instead of falling down, he throws rocks.

not the bees

YES the bees

 

[AlphaSSB]

When it comes to Zelda characters, I'm a fan of adding in Midna, personally. Although I'd love to see Impa in a similar vein to what Hyrule Warriors did with her character. Tetra and Skull Kid have potential as well, but I don't know too much about them.

As for other franchises, Dixie and King K. Rool for DK, Ridley and Sylux for Metroid, as well as Krystal and the return of Wolf for Star Fox would all be good additions, in my opinion.

 

[Knight Dude]

I know every one is hype up on BotW Link and even the slightest minute chance of Cappy in Mario's moveset. But let's not forget that Samus could have her new Melee move too. I would hope that it could be an improved Up-Smash, seeing as all her special attacks are extremely iconic to the character and most of the serve a purpose to her playstyle.

 

[Starcutter]

Funny thing is Tingle is the only one I really want upgraded. Though I wouldn't be against Midna or Skull Kid either. Ghirahim doesn't do it for me, but eh.

Tingle was received quite well being playable in HW, though that may be part of the fact he's unplayable beyond the original WW in the US, due to them not porting the games over. He's not the most popular, obviously, but he's definitely been warmed up to. HW made him badass and notably used his more popular self. It was the Toon style that annoyed people(WW didn't help with him being a greedy slave-driver...).

Still one of my favorite options, but regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if the only Zelda newcomers we had were basically graphical updates again.

Didn't one of the Tingle games get localized? I know the balloon trip of love one didn't but I could have SWORN Rosy Rupeeland had a release somewhere out of Japan.

Honest to god, I'd love it if all the characters got BOTW makeovers and then just Tingle. He's just there, completely the same. (I guess if he had the Wind Waker design it would make sense but I want him to be all weird and out of place lol)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I know every one is hype up on BotW Link and even the slightest minute chance of Cappy in Mario's moveset. But let's not forget that Samus could have her new Melee move too. I would hope that it could be an improved Up-Smash, seeing as all her special attacks are extremely iconic to the character and most of the serve a purpose to her playstyle.

Could see it as an up tilt, honestly.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Didn't one of the Tingle games get localized? I know the balloon trip of love one didn't but I could have SWORN Rosy Rupeeland had a release somewhere out of Japan.

Honest to god, I'd love it if all the characters got BOTW makeovers and then just Tingle. He's just there, completely the same. (I guess if he had the Wind Waker design it would make sense but I want him to be all weird and out of place lol)

Some of them came to the UK areas, but the US has seen none of it from my understanding.

Tingle actually would look better next to the BOTW designs, imo. Sure, he'd look a bit out of place, but that's who he is. It meshes well. Albeit, he does match TP's darker style better when using the MM design. His Toon design clearly makes sense to use since it's his latest ones at the time of Brawl/4.

 

[Morbi]

I know every one is hype up on BotW Link and even the slightest minute chance of Cappy in Mario's moveset. But let's not forget that Samus could have her new Melee move too. I would hope that it could be an improved Up-Smash, seeing as all her special attacks are extremely iconic to the character and most of the serve a purpose to her playstyle.

Not going to lie, I would hate to see her up-Smash go, I love that move myself. It is probably for the best, but I would miss it.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Here are my ideas for additions to existing franchises that are perceived as "Underrepresented":

DK: The obvious choices being K. Cool and Dixie. Alternatively it is possible to see Cranky.

Kirby: Bandana Dee is the only logical choice imo

Star Fox: Have Wolf come back seems like the "best" option, but if they're feeling crazy I think Slippy and Peppy both have a lot of merit and could be fun additions.

Metroid: I think, barring something we don't know from MP4, Ridley is the only logical choice as long as Sakurai decides to make him work.

Legend if Zelda: While not "Underrepresented" in my opinion, I think it could still be up for something new. Any of the champions, Midna, Impa could all make sense. Pig Ganon could also be a possibility, though a bit of a reach imo.

 

[IronTed]

I know every one is hype up on BotW Link and even the slightest minute chance of Cappy in Mario's moveset. But let's not forget that Samus could have her new Melee move too. I would hope that it could be an improved Up-Smash, seeing as all her special attacks are extremely iconic to the character and most of the serve a purpose to her playstyle.

To be honest, I never liked Samus' Up-Smash, so I definitely would approve of this decision.

 

[Morbi]

Here are my ideas for additions to existing franchises that are perceived as "Underrepresented":

DK: The obvious choices being K. Cool and Dixie. Alternatively it is possible to see Cranky.

Kirby: Bandana Dee is the only logical choice imo

Star Fox: Have Wolf come back seems like the "best" option, but if they're feeling crazy I think Slippy and Peppy both have a lot of merit and could be fun additions.

Metroid: I think, barring something we don't know from MP4, Ridley is the only logical choice as long as Sakurai decides to make him work.

Legend if Zelda: While not "Underrepresented" in my opinion, I think it could still be up for something new. Any of the champions, Midna, Impa could all make sense. Pig Ganon could also be a possibility, though a bit of a reach imo.

I would not even mind Funky. But Cranky is the main one I want, myself.

The only problem with Slippy or Peppy is you would practically have to add the other one. It would just be weird to leave one of them out. Peppy would be the best, because he stays in his Arwing for the most part. Because he is old. But that is why I want Cranky... So?

Sylux is the talk of the town for Metroid. But I just hope Sakurai came to his senses.

 

[T-Hell]

Man, yesterday I had a brainstorm about a possible moveset for Chibi-Robo and now I want him even more D:

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Here are my ideas for additions to existing franchises that are perceived as "Underrepresented":

DK: The obvious choices being K. Cool and Dixie. Alternatively it is possible to see Cranky.

Kirby: Bandana Dee is the only logical choice imo

Star Fox: Have Wolf come back seems like the "best" option, but if they're feeling crazy I think Slippy and Peppy both have a lot of merit and could be fun additions.

Metroid: I think, barring something we don't know from MP4, Ridley is the only logical choice as long as Sakurai decides to make him work.

Legend if Zelda: While not "Underrepresented" in my opinion, I think it could still be up for something new. Any of the champions, Midna, Impa could all make sense. Pig Ganon could also be a possibility, though a bit of a reach imo.

DK: We need Funky Kong so we can get that 'New Funky Kong Mode' sticker on the box.

Kirby: Agreed. Marx would be a cool additon tho.

Star Fox: Just bring back Wolf. That's all.

Metroid: I'd be down for either Ridley or Sylux.

Legend of Zelda: Warriors Impa, Midna w/ Wolf Link, Skull Kid... there's a ton of LoZ characters you could put in, but I'd rather not have Pig Ganon, if it meant we got him first over the others I mentioned beforehand tbh.

Wait what happened?

Dude got body bagged by Morbi about newcomer merits, it would seem? Kind of just skim read the last few pages tbh.

 

[Starcutter]

What if Dark Samus is playable similar to Dark Pit? just all the shots are... uh, Darkness or whatever (I never played Metroid Prime 2) OR they just give dark samus some of Samus' Custom moves like the Melee Charge Shot.

Not ideal, but it could happen.

 

[IronTed]

I'm skeptical about Sylux. For literally the last decade it's been "he's gonna be important, he's gonna be important" but all he has to show is being a rando with a generic backstory from Hunters who had 2 cameos in subsequent games.

That and the fact Prime 4 will likely release well after Smash means it likely won't impact his chances (unless the FF cameo really spoke to Sakurai).

Hopefully he gets a major revamp to his design, his current one is a result of DS limitations and should really be upgraded.

If Dark Samus got the shaft, it seems Sylux could very well suffer the same fate.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

You know, I hope that most of the semi-clone characters get the Wolf treatment, where their similarities start and end at their specials and maybe their final smashes.

It's probably why I appreciate Wolf for what he is, sure he's similar to Fox and Falco, but his normals, aerials and smash attacks are so different to Fox and Falco's that he didn't feel like a clone character despite similar special moves.

 

[Lyndis_]

Sylux is also an option. There's no way he won't be a main antagonist of Prime 4, being his appearances in

Spoiler: Games

both the Prime 3 and FF endings. He is absolutely guaranteed to appear in Prime 4 as a major character.

I'd honestly just rather not have Dark Samus at all then have them as a clone. They really can't be done in the same way Dark Pit, as they aren't a direct copy and don't function similarly. SA-X is the closest you'd get to that.

(Also just having the 3 Metroid reps all be Samus in a way bugs me.)

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I would not even mind Funky. But Cranky is the main one I want, myself.

The only problem with Slippy or Peppy is you would practically have to add the other one. It would just be weird to leave one of them out. Peppy would be the best, because he stays in his Arwing for the most part. Because he is old. But that is why I want Cranky... So?

Sylux is the talk of the town for Metroid. But I just hope Sakurai came to his senses.

When I imagine Peppy, I think about his appearance in Assault. That game just had great material for all the members of Star Fox. Man they need to get back on that ****.

 

[Deleted member]

People who think Sylux has a chance at all, when his only notable appearence is a DS spin-off, are just as silly as the people suggesting Anthony Higgs back in Smash 4 speculation.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

You know, I hope that most of the semi-clone characters get the Wolf treatment, where their similarities start and end at their specials and maybe their final smashes.

It's probably why I appreciate Wolf for what he is, sure he's similar to Fox and Falco, but his normals, aerials and smash attacks are so different to Fox and Falco's that he didn't feel like a clone character despite similar special moves.

To add on to this, (since I'm to lazy to edit), Wolf had enough differences on his specials where they still had their own unique flair that stood out on their own.

• His laser had a hitbox to hit the opponent at close range.
• Fire Wolf (Up B) had a super fast start-up and ended with a relatively strong kick.
  
• Wolf Flash (Side B) was good for a quick recovery, and when sweet spotted, had a meteor smash effect than Falco's Side B (iirc).
• His reflector was also unique in that it had invincibility on startup and had a larger range than Fox's stagnant reflector.

Sylux is also an option. There's no way he won't be a main antagonist of Prime 4, being his appearances in

Spoiler: Games

both the Prime 3 and FF endings. He is absolutely guaranteed to appear in Prime 4 as a major character.

I'd honestly just rather not have Dark Samus at all then have them as a clone. They really can't be done in the same way Dark Pit, as they aren't a direct copy and don't function similarly. SA-X is the closest you'd get to that.

(Also just having the 3 Metroid reps all be Samus in a way bugs me.)

I find that people (i.e Casual friends) who say to have Dark Samus as a Samus clone is because of Dark Pit. Dark Samus definitely has it's own unique traits, and it'd suck to forgo those concepts that make her stand to pad out the roster with another clone with (potentially) little in the way of a deviation of the original.

 

[RodNutTakin]

I wanna break up the topic for a quick moment to talk about the subject of characters getting "revoiced" for this Smash.
Others may not agree with me but I believe is overdue for a "revoice" for this upcoming game in my humble opinion, especially if they plan on reworking its moveset this time around. The Puff's been using the same exact voiceclips in each game since 64, for the love of pete.

 

[Starcutter]

People who think Sylux has a chance at all, when his only notable appearence is a DS spin-off, are just as silly as the people suggesting Anthony Higgs back in Smash 4 speculation.

I think the bigger reason is due to the assumption he will appear in Metroid Prime 4, and Sakurai knows this somehow.

I mean, it's not IMPOSSIBLE. But really, who knows.

 

[T-Hell]

Eh, at least he (Sylux) would be a new Metroid rep, as long as he is unique, seeing how Ridley just seems to never come to fruition.

 

[Freduardo]

So Sonic Mania DLC has been announced.

Mighty Armadillo and Ray the Squirrel are now going to be playable in that.

IS SMASH NEXT‽

Spoiler

No.

 

[Retroend]

why are people obsessed with clones? i rather have 1 original character than several clones added to the game.

 

[mikey661]

Honestly I'd love to see Skull Kid or Paper Mario in this smash game just because of my childhood bias.

What do you guys think about the possibility of Nintendo incorporating indie characters into smash 5? Since they brought tons of indie games over to the Switch, and its clear that they brought Sonic and Ryu and Snake to smash in the past, wouldn't it be feasible for them to add indie characters (namely, the more popular ones) ??

Also bear in mind that this game was being developed well after the end of the Smash 4 Ballot where people voted for characters that they wanted. They had access to that information from the beginning of this game, so they knew what the community wanted and they could really surprise us with the character reveals...

If they DID add indie characters from indie games on the switch, honestly give me Sans and i'm good.

 

[IronTed]

What confuses me about Sylux is the rationale for his inclusion.

It's not because of his move potential, or the fact he's an interesting character, or that he has a cool design. It comes down to "Metroid needs more reps". I agree, but just because Metroid should get another character doesn't mean we should settle.

Aside from Dark Samus, you have other hunters who are more interesting (although I personally don't think any are worth advocating for). Weavel, for example, could be interesting, given his ability to divide into two parts. Sylux has... the shock coil?

Maybe there's a rad moveset out there, but I'm curious if anyone has a reason more than "Metroid needs more reps".

 

[Cereal Bawks]

I just realized Samus would probably drop her Other M design in favor of her SR design.

 

[MSmariosonic]

why are people obsessed with clones? i rather have 1 original character than several clones added to the game.

It's more like "I'd rather have some clones than no characters"

 

[PLATINUM7]

I just realized Samus would probably drop her Other M design in favor of her SR design.

She does seem to have gone back to large shoulder orbs(?) in the trailer silhouette.

 

[Cyn]

why are people obsessed with clones? i rather have 1 original character than several clones added to the game.

Human nature. People like X character more than Y character. Doesn't matter if X is exactly the same in Y other than looks. Maybe it's nostalgia; maybe it's aesthetics. Maybe they have fond memories of X character and not so much Y. Maybe people are all just crazy. I'd go with the latter.

 

[T-Hell]

Yeah it does really look like we're getting Samus from Samus Returns, judging from the shoulder pads in the trailer.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

why are people obsessed with clones? i rather have 1 original character than several clones added to the game.

Because clones reuse assets, there's a higher chance of more character representation from a variety of different series. Of course, you have to do clones right, like Wolf as I mentioned in my previous posts, and not something like Melee Roy; then there's the subject of padding the roster for the sake of it. Adding a few clones is a good way to appease those people who want characters that may function or play similarly to another character already on the roster.


Of course, once you have an additional character in, you are able to focus more dev time on making a making a new character. If Smash had only original characters and no clones, the roster would be significantly smaller in every iteration of the game from 64 to Smash 4.