Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[The Goldenbrawler]

Personally, I want Dark Samus to be like Wolf. Specials would be variants of Samus', but all of her other attacks would be original. Of course this is probably wishful thinking, but still. Ridley is definitely in an unfavorable position with Sakurai at the helm, no doubt. But I agree, Sylux is still in a very unsure position right now, how big his role is could determine his viability.

I dislike when people assume he's out for the count though, considering we don't know what his future even holds. For all we know, we could get a major trailer for Metroid Prime 4 at E3, alongside his reveal for this new Smash. Maybe we'll get Dark Samus in celebration of the new Metroid Prime. Perhaps Sakurai will randomly decide "Maybe Ridley won't be so bad" and throw him at us. Nothing is guranteed when it comes to Smash, especially since Cloud happened.

 

[Chron]

I'd like to clear up on a couple details everyone might not be aware of yet.

Sakurai:

According to one of his posts on Twitter, he IS working on the game, and has been for a while.

"Right now we're just at the stage where we revealed this game, but I've been working on this game in silence day after day. Please wait until we can release more information, or until release day." - Sakurai

New Game OR Port:

NEW:
-Working Title
-Long Development
-New Logo
-New Website
-Copyright © 2018

PORT:
-Not Officially Confirmed To Be New

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Says the one supporting Donkey Kong Jr.

Uh...what's wrong with supporting a character? It doesn't say "expected" characters.
@Swampasaur, did you really "like" a childish post like that?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If they bring the customs back, they better rework the hell out of the system used to obtain them. It was so frustrating to try and get all the custom moves and stuff in 4.

Removing the risk of receiving duplicates would be a start. There's a lot of potential for the custom special moves, and I'd really hate to see them get the boot.

 

[Hinata]

Removing the risk of receiving duplicates would be a start. There's a lot of potential for the custom special moves, and I'd really hate to see them get the boot.

Good point. Personally I loved customs, and if it was easier to obtain them, I probably would've used them a whole lot more.

 

[?????????????]

Hey, I've got a question then:

If you were given the option, would you rather have Custom Moves, or clone characters that would use the custom moves?

...I'd...rather have the clone characters. I like characters. They're the most exciting thing to me.

 

[Hinata]

Hey, I've got a question then:

If you were given the option, would you rather have Custom Moves, or clone characters that would use the custom moves?

...I'd...rather have the clone characters. I like characters. They're the most exciting thing to me.

I'd rather have the custom moves, because having clones would probably be something like main character uses 1111 set, clone 1 uses 2222, so on and so forth.

With custom moves, you can mix and match.

 

[?????????????]

I'd rather have the custom moves, because having clones would probably be something like main character uses 1111 set, clone 1 uses 2222, so on and so forth.

With custom moves, you can mix and match.

Yeah, that was the one advantage I could think of.

 

[Camc10]

Hey, I've got a question then:

If you were given the option, would you rather have Custom Moves, or clone characters that would use the custom moves?

...I'd...rather have the clone characters. I like characters. They're the most exciting thing to me.

Both If possible. Something like how for Fox, his customs for Lasers are Falco's and Wolf's lasers. Depends on how much of a clone they are.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Good point. Personally I loved customs, and if it was easier to obtain them, I probably would've used them a whole lot more.

I do have them all on my end. I will say though, that some of the custom special moves could've been handled better. For an example, if Warlock Thrust dealt better knockback, it would've been far more practical to use.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I hope they make Little Mac sound like a teenager from the Bronx rather then a a 40 year old Japanese man.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Hey, I've got a question then:

If you were given the option, would you rather have Custom Moves, or clone characters that would use the custom moves?

...I'd...rather have the clone characters. I like characters. They're the most exciting thing to me.

Oof, that's a tricky question. I don't personally like custom moves, especially since some of them would break the meta if they were legal. Granted, that might be my competitive bias talking there. Utilizing the concept of custom moves to diversify clones from their counterparts though? That could prove to be beneficial if they were utilized correctly.

 

[Chron]

Hey, I've got a question then:

If you were given the option, would you rather have Custom Moves, or clone characters that would use the custom moves?

...I'd...rather have the clone characters. I like characters. They're the most exciting thing to me.

I want the clones, with only Miis having custom moves. (AND THEY BETTER BE TOURNAMENT LEGAL, ORGANIZERS!)

Also, like I said before, I think a good way to unlock custom moves would be to get all of a character's customs for doing their Target Smash(or similar minigame).

 

[Gestahl]

I hope Andross from StarWing Snes will be a playable Character!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

While you technically aren't wrong that DK and Diddy can represent Donkey Kong Country very well, that argument as a whole doesn't really work.

I mean, we only REALLY need Link, Zelda and Ganondorf for Zelda, and we only really need Peach, Mario, Bowser and Luigi for Mario.

You argue that Rosalina and Bowser Jr "Became so integral to the franchise" yet neither of these characters were even in Super Mario Odyssey. Those characters are literally just fluff for the roster. In the example of Dixie Kong, I'd argue that she's historically more "integral to the franchise" of DKC than Rosalina EVER was to Super Mario. Not that it matters, since that argument doesn't really work in the context of smash.

And if you want to argue "Rosalina got in Smash because she was integral to the Super Mario franchise at the time of Smash 4's development" then guess what? Bandana Dee is literally the 4th most "integeral" character to the Kirby franchise. If you have done your homework, you would know the character has had multiple SIGNIFICANT roles since smash 4. Similar thing for Dixie (although I can't really say the same about K. Rool) I will admit that Dixie wasn't in a major Donkey Kong Country game since Donkey Kong Country 3 on GBA, but we can say that she has STARRED as THE MAIN CHARACTER in HER OWN GAME. Literally only 2 other Donkey Kong Country characters share this role, and they are both in smash. Not to mention she is literally playable in the most recent DKC, a game that's getting a remake.

Although, that last paragraph doesn't matter, because the whole "The series doesn't need any more characters since the core ones are in already" argument is invalid in the first place.

Edit: Apologies for the rant, I just REALLY didn't like that argument. I'm going to go watch "Emporer's New Groove" now

I'm gonna be honest with you, I REALLY don't wanna have a geek debate about how this character is important because this and that character doesn't matter because that.

I think you have an incredibly misguided interpretation of what makes a character "iconic" or "integral" to the series. You seem to think it means being a playable character. You also seem to think that not being in the last "mainstream" game means you don't matter.

So if I have to explain Bowser Jr's history to you then this is not a discussion I wanna spend time on. I'm not trying to say you're not worth arguing with, it's just I've done this type of discussion like a million times on this thread.

Watching Emperor's New Groove sounds like much more fun for both of this. Haven't seen it in years, but I have seen it like 30 times.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Another thing I can't wait to see is DLC characters getting events, Codex, Custom Moves. One particular event scenario for Lucas I would love to see is him fighting Meta Knight for obvious reasons.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I'd rather have the custom moves, because having clones would probably be something like main character uses 1111 set, clone 1 uses 2222, so on and so forth.

With custom moves, you can mix and match.

Why do people on this thread consistently talk about character designs like they're just a set of 4 specials?

 

[?????????????]

Why do people on this thread consistently talk about character designs like they're just a set of 4 specials?

Wait, but...this example actually makes sense in context. We were talking about Custom Moves, which ARE just the 4 specials.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Why do people on this thread consistently talk about character designs like they're just a set of 4 specials?

It's like how IGN thought Lucario and Ike were clones because they shared one or two specials.

 

[Hinata]

Why do people on this thread consistently talk about character designs like they're just a set of 4 specials?

Yeah, what pizzadude said. We're talking solely about the custom special moves.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I'd like to clear up on a couple details everyone might not be aware of yet.

Sakurai:

According to one of his posts on Twitter, he IS working on the game, and has been for a while.

"Right now we're just at the stage where we revealed this game, but I've been working on this game in silence day after day. Please wait until we can release more information, or until release day." - Sakurai

New Game OR Port:

NEW:
-Working Title
-Long Development
-New Logo
-New Website
-Copyright © 2018

PORT:
-Not Officially Confirmed To Be New

One point of contention: MK8 Deluxe had Copyright 2017 in it's reveal trailer, but that game was pretty much a port of MK8 + DLC.

 

[Starcutter]

I'm gonna be honest with you, I REALLY don't wanna have a geek debate about how this character is important because this and that character doesn't matter because that.

I think you have an incredibly misguided interpretation of what makes a character "iconic" or "integral" to the series. You seem to think it means being a playable character. You also seem to think that not being in the last "mainstream" game means you don't matter.

So if I have to explain Bowser Jr's history to you then this is not a discussion I wanna spend time on. I'm not trying to say you're not worth arguing with, it's just I've done this type of discussion like a million times on this thread.

Watching Emperor's New Groove sounds like much more fun for both of this. Haven't seen it in years, but I have seen it like 30 times.

I'll just skip the whole bit about proving you wrong and say that I just finished watching Emporer's New Groove, and it's as good as I remember it being.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Why do people on this thread consistently talk about character designs like they're just a set of 4 specials?

I don't believe the scenario in question even implied such a thing. In fact, I don't recall anybody doing anything like you stated in the time I've been in here. Did I miss something?

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Yeah, what pizzadude said. We're talking solely about the custom special moves.

The context was comparing custom movesets to clones, and your argument essentially ran:
The difference between a character and a clone is equivalent to the difference between a moveset (1111) and a custom moveset (2222), so it's better to have the latter because it lets you mix and match moves. Is that not literally what you just said?
And if it is, then I don't see what the problem with my response is, because I'm calling it a false equivalence.

I'd rather have the custom moves, because having clones would probably be something like main character uses 1111 set, clone 1 uses 2222, so on and so forth.

With custom moves, you can mix and match.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'd rather have the clones. I think a fine example of why clones are more fun (at least for me, and several others) is how mods make Smash 4 feel very refreshed. And I don't mean gameplay mods, just textures. Even if the moveset is exactly the same (Lyn skin for Lucina, for example), I feel way more satisfied playing "Lyn" than Lucina. I think these simple retextures add a lot to the game from how it changes someone's perception of the game, even if gameplay is 100% the same.
*Should be noted that Lucina plays absolutely nothing like Lyn would, so I don't want to hear any of "This is why we don't need another sword lord" stuff. That's unrelated to what the discussion is, and Lyn would be insanely different anyway

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Hey, I've got a question then:

If you were given the option, would you rather have Custom Moves, or clone characters that would use the custom moves?

...I'd...rather have the clone characters. I like characters. They're the most exciting thing to me.

Clone characters, easily.

Warlock Blade, Dark Fists and Wizard's Dropkick for Ganondorf when?

 

[?????????????]

The context was comparing custom movesets to clones, and your argument essentially ran:
The difference between a character and a clone is equivalent to the difference between a moveset (1111) and a custom moveset (2222), so it's better to have the latter because it lets you mix and match moves. Is that not literally what you just said?
And if it is, then I don't see what the problem with my response is, because I'm calling it a false equivalence.

Well, sure, I guess... but that was kinda literally the question I asked.

If you were given the option, would you rather have Custom Moves, or clone characters that would use the custom moves?

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

The context was comparing custom movesets to clones, and your argument essentially ran:
The difference between a character and a clone is equivalent to the difference between a moveset (1111) and a custom moveset (2222), so it's better to have the latter because it lets you mix and match moves. Is that not literally what you just said?
And if it is, then I don't see what the problem with my response is, because I'm calling it a false equivalence.

Am I the only one who was implying that they implement a system like custom moves that alters their entire moveset, not just their specials?

 

[Hinata]

The context was comparing custom movesets to clones, and your argument essentially ran:
The difference between a character and a clone is equivalent to the difference between a moveset (1111) and a custom moveset (2222), so it's better to have the latter because it lets you mix and match moves. Is that not literally what you just said?
And if it is, then I don't see what the problem with my response is, because I'm calling it a false equivalence.

Nah see, pizzadude said "what if instead of custom moves for every character, we get clones whose specials are just the other characters' custom moves." For example, Lucina's special moves being some of Marth's custom moves.

My argument was that it would more interesting to have custom moves as they are now, since in that case, the clones would have special moves that are just one matching set of custom moves. Which would be boring.

Normal moves were never brought up.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Well, sure, I guess... but that was kinda literally the question I asked.

I know, which is why I was confused as to why I got three replies that all said "where'd you get that from?" I thought it was pretty straightforward.

Am I the only one who was implying that they implement a system like custom moves that alters their entire moveset, not just their specials?

That would be obscenely high maintenance. Cool for Mii fighters (and they should do it!), but not a good idea for an entire cast.
Also there are still things like character physics that would be unaccounted for, though that could be implemented much more easily than 2 alts for every aerial.

 

[Chron]

Am I the only one who was implying that they implement a system like custom moves that alters their entire moveset, not just their specials?

If they do this, I'm making a character with a meteor smash or spike for every attack.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Nah see, pizzadude said "what if instead of custom moves for every character, we get clones whose specials are just the other characters' custom moves." For example, Lucina's special moves being some of Marth's custom moves.

My argument was that it would more interesting to have custom moves as they are now, since in that case, the clones would have special moves that are just one matching set of custom moves. Which would be boring.

Normal moves were never brought up.

Ohh.... despite the comment I just made, I think I see my misunderstanding.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I guess on the topic of clone characters, what clones do you think we'll get this time around? We've gotten some in each game, so it would be surprising if we don't get any this time around.

Some I have in mind are Galacta Knight, Toon Zelda, Dark Samus, Funky Kong and Black Shadow; for the love of god let Black Shadow take Ganondorf's moveset and give Ganondorf a new unique moveset.

 

[?????????????]

Ohh.... despite the comment I just made, I think I see my misunderstanding.

Right, I couldn't think of a better way to word it...

But like, INSTEAD of having Marth with 3 sets of custom move options, you have Marth, plus two characters (let's say Roy and Lucina) who are like Marth, but use special moves that are the moves that WOULD HAVE BEEN Marth's custom moves.

...I don't know if that was any less confusing. It's a little "out there."

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

That would be obscenely high maintenance. Cool for Mii fighters (and they should do it!), but not a good idea for an entire cast.
Also there are still things like character physics that would be unaccounted for, though that could be implemented much more easily than 2 alts for every aerial.

If they do this, I'm making a character with a meteor smash or spike for every attack.

Er, I suppose should've specified. What I was thinking is, what if they were to revamp the custom move engine to which they can alter the entire moveset of a character, and make a clone off of said altered moveset. Basically, keep the custom move engine and refine it for development purposes to make more defined clones.

INSTEAD of having Marth with 3 sets of custom move options, you have Marth, plus two characters (let's say Roy and Lucina) who are like Marth, but use special moves that are the moves that WOULD HAVE BEEN Marth's custom moves.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinkin' ya meant.

 

[?????????????]

Before "Custom Characters" were officially announced for Smash Bros., my initial idea for it was that you would make the entire moveset by picking each move from another character.

Like...Mario's Combo, Donkey Kong's Forward Tilt, Little Mac's Forward Smash, Sheik's Aerial, Bowser's Neutral Special, etc.
until you build the whole character.

 

[Camc10]

Another thing I can't wait to see is DLC characters getting events, Codex, Custom Moves. One particular event scenario for Lucas I would love to see is him fighting Meta Knight for obvious reasons.

I would love if Ryu got customs based on the other shotoclones of Street Fighter. (Ken and Akuma's hadokens, shoryukens, tatsu. Maybe Dan or Sakura's tatsus, and replace Focus Attac with Parry and make Focus Attack a custom and another custom as a counter)

 

[Starcutter]

I wonder if in smash 4 if Dark Pit, Lucina and even Alph would be different if we didn't have custom moves? like, instead of making custom moves, they just made slightly different moves for those 3?

Guess we'll never know.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I know this is random, but I saw a post on Reddit that brought up the Coin Launcher minigame from Brawl (Pic for reference)

If this thing comes back, I'm gonna lose my ****. Actually the best Smash minigame. And it's WAY cooler than the trophy store.

 

[?????????????]

I wonder if in smash 4 if Dark Pit, Lucina and even Alph would be different if we didn't have custom moves? like, instead of making custom moves, they just made slightly different moves for those 3?

Guess we'll never know.

RIGHT, that was the exact idea behind my original question!