Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chron]

I guess on the topic of clone characters, what clones do you think we'll get this time around? We've gotten some in each game, so it would be surprising if we don't get any this time around.

Some I have in mind are Galacta Knight, Toon Zelda, Dark Samus, Funky Kong and Black Shadow; for the love of god let Black Shadow take Ganondorf's moveset and give Ganondorf a new unique moveset.

Give Ganon new moves and make Funky a Captain Falcon clone.

Right, I couldn't think of a better way to word it...

But like, INSTEAD of having Marth with 3 sets of custom move options, you have Marth, plus two characters (let's say Roy and Lucina) who are like Marth, but use special moves that are the moves that WOULD HAVE BEEN Marth's custom moves.

...I don't know if that was any less confusing. It's a little "out there."

I like this idea, but what I want more than anything are movesets that accurately represent the character(mainly referring to FE characters). I was hyped for Lucina, but when I realised she was basically noob Marth(please don't kill me Lucina mains) I was kinda dissapointed. I'm glad Roy is finally getting a moveset that isn't just bad Marth.

 

[Hinata]

Before "Custom Characters" were officially announced for Smash Bros., my initial idea for it was that you would make the entire moveset by picking each move from another character.

Like...Mario's Combo, Donkey Kong's Forward Tilt, Little Mac's Forward Smash, Sheik's Aerial, Bowser's Neutral Special, etc.
until you build the whole character.

My original idea when I saw things like Mario's large but slow fireball and his quick, small ones was that you could use a slider to change the size and power of certain moves.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I like this idea, but what I want more than anything are moveset that accurately represent the character(mainly referring to FE characters). I was hyped for Lucina, but when I realised she was basically noob Marth(please don't kill me Lucina mains) I was kinda dissapointed. I'm glad Roy is finally getting a moveset that isn't just bad Marth.

I'm pretty sure the politically correct term is "Consistent Marth"

 

[Starcutter]

RIGHT, that was the exact idea behind my original question!

Honestly, I always thought it was a shame Dark Pit and Lucina got clone treatment while Alph just kinda... shared Olimar's spot. Sure, he's playable but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[?????????????]

I know this is random, but I saw a post on Reddit that brought up the Coin Launcher minigame from Brawl

Ohhhhhhhh...I completely forgot about this! This thing was the BEST!!

I like this idea, but what I want more than anything are moveset that accurately represent the character(mainly referring to FE characters). I was hyped for Lucina, but when I realised she was basically noob Marth(please don't kill me Lucina mains) I was kinda dissapointed. I'm glad Roy is finally getting a moveset that isn't just bad Marth.

Well, of course, that would be the most ideal situation; everyone truly feeling like a unique character.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I would love if Ryu got customs based on the other shotoclones of Street Fighter. (Ken and Akuma's hadokens, shoryukens, tatsu. Maybe Dan or Sakura's tatsus, and replace Focus Attac with Parry and make Focus Attack a custom and another custom as a counter)

I actually wouldn't mind seeing either Ken or Akuma just in the game.
What I really want is Violent Ken because his command dash is so much fun, but I also realize that that could never happen.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Give Ganon new moves and make Funky a Captain Falcon clone.


I like this idea, but what I want more than anything are moveset that accurately represent the character(mainly referring to FE characters). I was hyped for Lucina, but when I realised she was basically noob Marth(please don't kill me Lucina mains) I was kinda dissapointed. I'm glad Roy is finally getting a moveset that isn't just bad Marth.

I was a Lucina main at one point, and I find this insulting. XD
Anyways, I honestly do hope for a fe rep with an original moveset that's truly unique, like Robin.
*Cough* LYN *Cough*

 

[?????????????]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing either Ken or Akuma just in the game.
What I really want is Violent Ken because his command dash is so much fun, but I also realize that that could never happen.

I wouldn't mind a second Sonic character. Not one bit.
Secretly rooting for Tails.

 

[Hinata]

On another note, here's a topic I saw on Reddit that I wanna bring over here.

A mode to build your own Break the Targets stages.

Discuss.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I wouldn't mind a second Sonic character. Not one bit.
Secretly rooting for Tails.

I have always been extremely against another Sonic rep
Except for Tails.

 

[Starcutter]

What I really want is Violent Ken because his command dash is so much fun, but I also realize that that could never happen.

If Violent Ken was in Smash he'd have the best neutral, best confirms into kills AND best edgeguards.

but he'd also die at 0% from a raw up smash

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

On another note, here's a topic I saw on Reddit that I wanna bring over here.

A mode to build your own Break the Targets stages.

Discuss.

Could be interesting. Maybe make it like a Mario Maker thing where you can share your Break the Targets stage for people across the world to try and rate.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

On another note, here's a topic I saw on Reddit that I wanna bring over here.

A mode to build your own Break the Targets stages.

Discuss.

You mentioning this makes me want this desperately, alongside a better stage builder.

 

[Opossum]

On another note, here's a topic I saw on Reddit that I wanna bring over here.

A mode to build your own Break the Targets stages.

Discuss.

Honestly that'd be really fun! If you were able to share and download other people's target tests, it'd be even better.

 

[Chron]

I'm pretty sure the politically correct term is "Consistent Marth"

TECHNICALLY, Marth isn't inconsistent if you space it right every time. He's just better, but harder.

I was a Lucina main at one point, and I find this insulting. XD
Anyways, I honestly do hope for a fe rep with an original moveset that's truly unique, like Robin.
*Cough* LYN *Cough*

I honestly couldn't think of a better way to describe it.
Novice Marth?

 

[?????????????]

I honestly couldn't think of a better way to describe it.
Novice Marth?

Training Marth.

 

[N3ON]

I know this is random, but I saw a post on Reddit that brought up the Coin Launcher minigame from Brawl (Pic for reference)
View attachment 138929

If this thing comes back, I'm gonna lose my ****. Actually the best Smash minigame. And it's WAY cooler than the trophy store.

Coin Launcher was fun and all, but between my penultimate and last sticker, I spent about two years getting **** all with that thing, so tbh if I never had to see it again I'd be fine.
The music still plays in my head. Make it stop.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Can we also take a short moment to appreciate Brawl's stage builder by the way? I found that system much more varied compared to Smash 4's. Sure, you couldn't add much in terms of shapes for Brawl, but at the very least, you actually had a wide selection of additional stuff to add. In Smash 4 you get lava, springs, moving platforms, and canons...yay...

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I like this idea, but what I want more than anything are movesets that accurately represent the character(mainly referring to FE characters). I was hyped for Lucina, but when I realised she was basically noob Marth(please don't kill me Lucina mains) I was kinda dissapointed. I'm glad Roy is finally getting a moveset that isn't just bad Marth.

I know no one cares, but I'd just like to point out that that's a wrong characterization.
People see how the hitbox properties are evened out and just say "I guess that means Marth is strictly better because all you need to do is space properly, Lucina is basically just a simulation of spacing 50% of the time with Marth." That's not true and there are two main reasons:
First, especially in games that aren't Melee, there are situations where the opponent is already too close and unless you want to get into "solved game" territory, there's not much that you can do about it. The level of performance where those don't exist is the one where you're never getting hit in the first place because you're actually a perfect TAS bot. Since you probably aren't because those don't really exist, Lucina can be better for those situations.
Additionally, the idea that hitting with a tipper hitbox needs to be strictly better is slightly misfounded. Lower BKB/KBG means being able to combo more easily rather than just stringing together relatively high-knockback attacks as can end up happening.

Take note that I don't play as Lucina and I don't even like her, I just think the way she's characterized is unfair.

If Violent Ken was in Smash he'd have the best neutral, best confirms into kills AND best edgeguards.

but he'd also die at 0% from a raw up smash

You forgot the part where he can do a Ganon-style suicide grab using Flying Hellwheel or whatever it's called.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

TECHNICALLY, Marth isn't inconsistent if you space it right every time, he's just better, but harder.

I know haha, people often just refer to her as a "more consistent" Marth.
I was a Marth main for the majority of my competitive Smash 4 time, (Heck, my player tag that I use in bracket is THUNDERCATZ after Marth's upsmash), I know he can be plenty consistent. But it is true that in many cases it's impossible for Lucina's attack to do something different if it lands. Marth's attacks change significantly depending on sour spot/sweet spot.

 

[?????????????]

Y'know what I really want from Street Fighter in Smash Bros.?

MORE MUSIC. I want Guile's Theme, Zangief's Theme, and Cammy's Theme.

 

[Chron]

I know haha, people often just refer to her as a "more consistent" Marth.
I was a Marth main for the majority of my competitive Smash 4 time, (Heck, my player tag that I use in bracket is THUNDERCATZ after Marth's upsmash), I know he can be plenty consistent. But it is true that in many cases it's impossible for Lucina's attack to do something different if it lands. Marth's attacks change significantly depending on sour spot/sweet spot.

That's exactly why he's so much better. You can purposefully sour/sweet spot depending on which is needed for the current situation, but it requires percision. Lucina has none of that, but it's easier.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

All these people with their "Novice Marth" posts about Lucina. If I had Lucina as a main instead of a secondary, I'd feel slightly insulted. XD

I know no one cares, but I'd just like to point out that that's a wrong characterization.
People see how the hitbox properties are evened out and just say "I guess that means Marth is strictly better because all you need to do is space properly, Lucina is basically just a simulation of spacing 50% of the time with Marth." That's not true and there are two main reasons:
First, especially in games that aren't Melee, there are situations where the opponent is already too close and unless you want to get into "solved game" territory, there's not much that you can do about it. The level of performance where those don't exist is the one where you're never getting hit in the first place because you're actually a perfect TAS bot. Since you probably aren't because those don't really exist, Lucina can be better for those situations.
Additionally, the idea that hitting with a tipper hitbox needs to be strictly better is slightly misfounded. Lower BKB/KBG means being able to combo more easily rather than just stringing together relatively high-knockback attacks as can end up happening.

Take note that I don't play as Lucina and I don't even like her, I just think the way she's characterized is unfair.

Exactly, thank you. As an ex-Lucina main, I can safely say she has advantages in some MU's where Marth struggles. There's more to it other than just "novice marth" in fact, I heard that it's usually best to play them both, as they compliment each other very well, which shouldn't be all that surprising.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

On another note, here's a topic I saw on Reddit that I wanna bring over here.

A mode to build your own Break the Targets stages.

Discuss.

That could be really interesting, actually.

If they implement a system similar to Mario Maker where you can share it online, that could be a way to mitigate having to spend a whole bunch of pre-release development time on making individual Break the target stages. That potentially mean the dev team behind the game could release character specific Break the Target stages at their own pace post-release using already existing assets.

 

[Hinata]

That could be really interesting, actually.

If they implement a system similar to Mario Maker where you can share it online, that could be a way to mitigate having to spend a whole bunch of pre-release development time on making individual Break the target stages. That potentially mean the dev team behind the game could release character specific Break the Target stages at their own pace post-release using already existing assets.

We could get even better than character-specific Break the Targers stages with this system.

We could have stages that are based around advanced tech, or your personal play style. But I agree that the devs making their own stages post release would be sweet.

 

[Chron]

First, especially in games that aren't Melee, there are situations where the opponent is already too close and unless you want to get into "solved game" territory, there's not much that you can do about it.

That's true. Sometimes I forget you can't just WD back and fsmash in Smash 4.

All these people with their "Novice Marth" posts about Lucina. If I had Lucina as a main instead of a secondary, I'd feel slightly insulted. XD


Exactly, thank you. As an ex-Lucina main, I can safely say she has advantages in some MU's where Marth struggles. There's more to it other than just "novice marth" in fact, I heard that it's usually best to play them both, as they compliment each other very well, which shouldn't be all that surprising.

The problem is the situations she is worse in outweigh the situations where she is better.
Also, I like Lucina, and don't dislike the moveset she has, it's just that she is the one who has it.
She deserves better.

 

[Inawordyes]

Hypothetical: Squirtle and Ivysaur return, and we also get Decidueye. This leaves a 2-2-1 starter split, so we also get a second Fire starter. Who would be your pick?

 

[?????????????]

Hypothetical: Squirtle and Ivysaur return, and we also get Decidueye. This leaves a 2-2-1 starter split, so we also get a second Fire starter. Who would be your pick?

Blaziken.

 

[Camc10]

Y'know what I really want from Street Fighter in Smash Bros.?

MORE MUSIC. I want Guile's Theme, Zangief's Theme, and Cammy's Theme.

This. I absolutely hated that Smash only got 3 versions of Ryu's theme and 3 versions of Ken's theme, and the "worst" ones too.

 

[Hinata]

Hypothetical: Squirtle and Ivysaur return, and we also get Decidueye. This leaves a 2-2-1 starter split, so we also get a second Fire starter. Who would be your pick?

Delphox would have an interesting moveset. Incineroar too.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Funimation wants Goku in Smash...

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Hypothetical: Squirtle and Ivysaur return, and we also get Decidueye. This leaves a 2-2-1 starter split, so we also get a second Fire starter. Who would be your pick?

Come on, is it even a question who the best fire type is?

Spoiler

 

[?????????????]

Funimation wants Goku in Smash...

I know, right? Midoriya is a WAY better choice.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Hypothetical: Squirtle and Ivysaur return, and we also get Decidueye. This leaves a 2-2-1 starter split, so we also get a second Fire starter. Who would be your pick?

Blaziken, Infernape or Incineroar...?

There's too many good ones to pick from D:

 

[Knight Dude]

Hey, I've got a question then:

If you were given the option, would you rather have Custom Moves, or clone characters that would use the custom moves?

...I'd...rather have the clone characters. I like characters. They're the most exciting thing to me.

On paper the clone characters would sound better from a competitive standpoint. Especially since they were so tedious to unlock in Smash 4. But then the question is how many clones from these movesets would you make? I mean, aside from something obvious like the Wolf like moves for bringing Wolf back and some of Samus' for Dark Samus.

Then the bigger issue is choosing among THOSE attacks(you have two extra sets to work with), still altering the normals, Smashes, throws and air attacks to whatever degree is needed. AND most importantly, picking custom specials that still fit into a coherent playstyle for the character in question.

I think its cooler, because we don't really get to see custom attacks in competitive play, and they aren't available in online matches either. So they only have a limited functionality outside of local vs. when playing with other people. But it still will likely take some substantial amount of extra work to pull off giving these moves to clones.

 

[Chron]

Hypothetical: Squirtle and Ivysaur return, and we also get Decidueye. This leaves a 2-2-1 starter split, so we also get a second Fire starter. Who would be your pick?

I'd like to spend an hour talking about how don't think it would workout like this, BUT... Blaziken.

also squirtle please comeback...

 

[Hinata]

Funimation wants Goku in Smash...

Science isn't about why, it's about why not.

I know, right? Midoriya is a WAY better choice.

Now you're speakin' my language.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Funimation wants Goku in Smash...

He's in Super Smash Flash 2, so he's halfway there

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I know, right? Midoriya is a WAY better choice.

Real talk, Jotaro would be fantastic except that he's a manga character.

 

[Hinata]

Real talk, Jotaro would be fantastic except that he's a manga character.

Oh, ****. You're not wrong, that would be amazing.

I'd also gladly accept Joseph.