Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[The Goldenbrawler]

I could possibly see Sakurai changing his mind about Ridley, as he did with Villager. It's very unlikely, but not impossible.

I cannot possibly see Sakurai changing his mind on not including non-video game characters.



I love this song so much.

I hope it returns just as much as I hope Melee's Metal Battle theme returns as well.

I feel like everyone forgets Smash 64's Metal Mario theme:

I miss this so much.

Shadows of Valentia has such an amazing soundtrack. There are so many songs from it that'd be great in Smash. Twilight of the Gods, Lord of a Dead Empire, The Scions' Dance in Purgatory, March for Deliverance, Unity...even the opening theme.

Honestly it's part of the reason I hope Celica makes the cut: so we can guarantee at least a few of these.

I think Celica is in the realm of plausibility, but I feel some other FE reps definitely have an edge over her.

 

[Chandeelure]

How would you guys react to Plants vs. Zombies content in Smash?

I love this song so much.

I hope it returns just as much as I hope Melee's Metal Battle theme returns as well.

I don't know why, but for some reason, Metal Battle, some Xenoblade songs and Bayonetta songs have low volume compared to the other songs in my game haha.

It's sad, because those are some of my favorites.

 

[Mr. Game + Watch]

I'm happy with any character making it into Smash. How stupid it may even be.

But when the character doesn't originate from a video game/isn't considered from a video game franchise I draw the line.

So you would be fine with a call of duty rep?

How likely is another flat rep and what should it be?

 

[Lord-Zero]

Are people seriously still mentioning Goku when Sakurai himself laughed at the idea?

Originated from a video game = video game character.

Not originated from a video game = not a video game character.

Goku is not a video game character no matter how many games he's been in. It's not complicated.

It’s more of a “troll” suggestion just like Shrek, Spongebob, Reckless Safety Man, and even Britney Spears.

 

[New_Dumal]

Beware what you think is completely out of question.
Since Cloud, I'm very open to characters that breaks the rules into Smash.Cloud is not only a Square Enix character not related to Nintendo. He is also a icon of a heavily commented exclusive for PSX and a commom "internet rival" for Link.

Pre-Smash4 I was sure about what i would get, and I was proved wrong again and again with the roster choices. I played a prediction game (bet some money) with some friends where we should pick 15 characters that may become newcomers to Smash5. Between some obvious picks as "Spring Man", I picked Mickey Mouse and Simon Belmont with no regrets...
Sakurai likes to build something that no one would predict 100% accurate.
That's kind of the Smash magic.

Add: The ballot rule about being from a videogame makes a lot of sense for the ballot. Can you imagine how hard would it be to filter into Harry Potter and Darth Vader votes? But I don't think is a well formed rule to any newcomer. R.O.B was never a videogame character.

 

[Fenriraga]

I have an unlikely/weird prediction: I think we might bet CommanderVideo as a newcomer. I know it's super unlikely, but I just have this feeling he's gonna be one of the WTF characters. (though we haven't had any WTF 3rd parties have we?)

I'm pretty sure Cloud was very much a WTF newcomer.

But yeah, CommanderVideo is... Possible. I don't think he's nearly as likely a candidate as other indie characters, trophy or otherwise, but yeah.

 

[?????????????]

How would you guys react to Plants vs. Zombies content in Smash?

Could make a fun stage.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Bomberman is relevant? All I know of Bomberman recently is a small and not greatly received Switch game. Is there another big game coming out featuring him? (This might sound combative, but I'm legit asking/am confused)

Given the history of the character (about as old as Luigi), I kind of feel like that's enough. The character was AWOL for nearly a decade and then came back with its best selling game that the franchise has had since 1998. The character also has 70+ games under his belt so he might end up becoming a dark horse third party wise.

 

[?????????????]

Given the history of the character (about as old as Luigi), I kind of feel like that's enough. The character was AWOL for nearly a decade and then came back with its best selling game that the franchise has had since 1998. The character also has 70+ games under his belt so he might end up becoming a dark horse third party wise.

To me, it's like Simon Belmont. The pure history just makes him ALWAYS relevant.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

For the record (outside of Smash fan-terminology):

1st party is Nintendo itself
2nd Party is YOU
3rd party is an additional company. Regardless of wether they make games or not.

Remember it as in English class:
1st person is "I"
2nd person is "you"
3rd person is "Dave"

 

[Lord-Zero]

Didn't Sakurai even state that he didn't like altering veteran movesets that much, because he knows some people really like them the way they are?

Yes. He did state that. That’s a huge disappointment for those who wish for a major overhaul for many of the veteran characters.

 

[So_many_mails]

How about this...

We remove all nintendo characters and add only characters who originated from comics, manga, tv shows and movies! With the Gorillaz and Smokey Bear as guest characters. Sounds plausible to me right? RIGHT? RULEZ ARE MEANT TO BE BROKEN!!1

You're kidding right?
Who would leave out Tigger?

 

[FalcoOfTheNorth]

think of how smash 4's trailer went. they first made it seem like it was a new animal crossing game (a nintendo IP) but revealed it was a smash game by revealing the series logo (a smash ball). now think about how smash for switch's trailer went, it made it seem like it was a splatoon 1 remake (a nintendo IP) but revealed it to be smash by revealing the series logo (a smash ball)


EDIT: also notice breath of the wild link. Why would sakurai redesign a series staple character for a port? And even tho there is no cappy on mario that's because it would be a clashing design choice and would make mario look odd. Atleast breath of the wild link's outfit goes well with itself.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Let's hope for alternative movesets then.

I'd take it over the half baked customisation of most Smash 4 characters

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. Main reason many characters have been rather unchanged in their Smash movesets is due to the people that are unwilling for a change in a moveset and the developers fear negative backlash due to it. “They are part of the problem”? Certainly feels like it. If that keeps up, Sakurai could easily get away with 10+ Marth (just to say a name) moveset variants and the conformists will eat it up. I’m a quality over quantity person so the idea of having more characters for the sake of having more characters grinds my gears quite a bit. The characters in question deserve better and both Ganondorf and Black Shadow certainly deserve better.

Completely beside the point you're really arguing:
There's nothing wrong with clones/semi-clones. They add an interesting dimension to the game while being much easier to develop.

Unrelated to anything: What in the world do you mean by "the conformists"? I ask because somehow I suspect that it's not all those people who want Ganon to be updated to match current trends, pushed back to be more like a design from 20 years ago or otherwise be changed to fit into their pre-conceived notions of what he should be due to the "canon". If I allow that the term "conformist" means anything at all, all of those sound pretty damn conformist.

 

[Chandeelure]

I think it would be cool to have a Zombie and Peashooter trophy in Smash.

 

[MysticKnives]

Suppose there was a smash ballot, and you got to pick one of each of the following for the new game:
Character
Stage
Mechanic (or remove a mechanic)
Rework a character/remove a character

For me, it would be
Bandana Dee
Dr. Mario Stage
L-Cancelling
Ganondorf Re-Work

Edward Falcon (Power Stone)
Power Stone 2 stage
Tag team mechanic
Ness rework

 

[MSmariosonic]

You're kidding right?
Who would leave out Tigger?

We already have too many Winnie the pooh characters.
Pooh, Piglet, Christopher Robin and Eeyore are enough imo.

 

[?????????????]

We already have too many Winnie the pooh characters.
Pooh, Piglet, Christopher Robin and Eeyore are enough imo.

You can't just leave out Tigger like that! Even if he hasn't had any "relevance" lately, he's historical!

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

If Goku ever got added to Smash Bros., I think it'd be the DBZ creators that would have to approach Nintendo.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good news for you, my dude.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

We already have too many Winnie the pooh characters.
Pooh, Piglet, Christopher Robin and Eeyore are enough imo.

OK but where the **** is Rabbit?

 

[Deleted member]

We already have too many Winnie the pooh characters.
Pooh, Piglet, Christopher Robin and Eeyore are enough imo.

What's the point of Christopher Robin if he's just going to be an Obi-Wan clone?

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Honestly, 2 things I feel I can add here:

1. Clones
I feel that the reason a lot of people, like myself, can see them on the chopping block is: They're lower priority. They always have been. The cuts from Melee to Brawl were mostly clones (Bar Mewtwo, poor guy) and the cuts from Brawl to Smash 4's initial roster were all either:
A. The character is a clone and are low priority to the rest of the cast: Wolf and Lucas
B. The characters mechanics don't work with the new game: Pokemon Trainer and Ice Climbers
C. The licensing for that character: Snake

2. Custom Moves
I desperately hope they cut these for the next title if it is indeed a new game. Hardly anyone cared about them, and they dropped the concept as soon as DLC became a thing. I feel like all the time put into all these custom moves could have easily given us another character, maybe 2. This also includes the Miis, granted, if they have to come back, at least make it to where they are the only characters who have customizable moves, or maybe another type of Mii (Mage maybe?) altogether. At least then, it gives them a gimmick that'll set them apart.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good news for you, my dude.

If we actually get Goku in this game that would be hilarious.

Bonus points if Ridley doesn't get in and Goku does, making the age old argument of "he's too big" actually have some credence considering that the arguments against Bayonetta, Cloud, and Goku would all be disproven.

 

[?????????????]

I do hope they bring back Wolf this time...I felt bad he never came back for Smash 4.

 

[Cosmic77]

We already have too many Winnie the pooh characters.
Pooh, Piglet, Christopher Robin and Eeyore are enough imo.

Spoiler

We need more Christopher Robin clones.

 

[Radical Bones]

Having Goku in Smash would be hilarious. I'd actually use 8-Player Smash to whoop 7 Goku's as Jigglypuff.

Oh you're a god? **** I'm a Fairy.

 

[Starcutter]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good news for you, my dude.

too bad Funimation aren't the guys who own Dragon Ball. That would be Toei Animation, I think.

 

[Lord-Zero]

Completely beside the point you're really arguing:
There's nothing wrong with clones/semi-clones. They add an interesting dimension to the game while being much easier to develop.

And this is where I will disagree with you completely. That “interesting dimension” you speak of could have been better spent on actual alternate outfits for existing characters. The characters deserve better than “clone” treatment just to fatten up a roster for the sake of fattening it up.

Unrelated to anything: What in the world do you mean by "the conformists"? I ask because somehow I suspect that it's not all those people who want Ganon to be updated to match current trends, pushed back to be more like a design from 20 years ago or otherwise be changed to fit into their pre-conceived notions of what he should be due to the "canon". If I allow that the term "conformist" means anything at all, all of those sound pretty damn conformist.

I meant those who are satisfied with how the characters currently (including stuff like Dark Pit) are and are rather opposed to any changes. I guess my phrasing needed some work.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

too bad Funimation aren't the guys who own Dragon Ball. That would be Toei Animation, I think.

But Funimation are close with the guys who own Dragon Ball (they've been dubbing Dragon Ball since 1995), so they could maybe get the ball rolling.

Slightly off topic, but did you guys know that Toei Animation worked on a Hannah Montanna anime? Unfortunately it was canceled, but the character sheets still supposedly exist.

 

[PLATINUM7]

A. The character is a clone and are low priority to the rest of the cast: Wolf and Lucas

But they aren't clones.

Maybe not completely unique but not enough to call them clones.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

But they aren't clones.

Maybe not completely unique but not enough to call them clones.

Well, Semi-Clones then, either way.

 

[Freduardo]

Huuuh.



A fellow Bonk-fan? In my Smashboards?

Definitely. I have a deep wish for Nintendo to buy all the Hudson properties off Konami. I didn’t just choose this avatar because of a propensity for head butting things. If we make the thread now we’d have two supporters.

They’d get Bloody Roar, Bomberman, Bonk, and others that most people don’t remember. Heck I was pushing it by not putting Bloody Roar in that category.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Well, Semi-Clones then, either way.

Not even that for Wolf.

And Lucas to go that far you need to consider the identical weight, size and in Brawl, extra lag after a grab release.

 

[Cosmic77]

I meant those who are satisfied with how the characters currently (including stuff like Dark Pit) are and are rather opposed to any changes. I guess my phrasing needed some work.

I'd prefer changes to veterans be kept to a minimum. Change is nice, but not if it radically changes a moveset I've already gotten used to. That's one of the reasons why I'm worried about BotW Link being in this Smash.

Slightly off topic, but did you guys know that Toei Animation worked on a Hannah Montanna anime? Unfortunately it was canceled, but the character sheets still supposedly exist.

Anime and Hannah Montana is not the best of both worlds.

 

[Lord-Zero]

2. Custom Moves
I desperately hope they cut these for the next title if it is indeed a new game. Hardly anyone cared about them, and they dropped the concept as soon as DLC became a thing. I feel like all the time put into all these custom moves could have easily given us another character, maybe 2. This also includes the Miis, granted, if they have to come back, at least make it to where they are the only characters who have customizable moves, or maybe another type of Mii (Mage maybe?) altogether. At least then, it gives them a gimmick that'll set them apart.

It was a neat concept that they seemed to have forgotten about it when they were done with Palutena. Instead of slight tweaks to the existing special move, they could have been completely different special moves to better match a player’s play style. Basically, what they did with Palutena but expanded on several characters. It doesn’t need to apply to all characters.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Well, Semi-Clones then, either way.

Semi-Clones shouldn't be treated as pure clones to be honest.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

And this is where I will disagree with you completely. That “interesting dimension” you speak of could have been better spent on actual alternate outfits for existing characters. The characters deserve better than “clone” treatment just to fatten up a roster for the sake of fattening it up.

Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit being clones 100% fits their character, so there's that.

 

[SlickWylde]

Wolf is only slightly closer to a semi clone than Luigi is. And I don't consider Luigi to be a semi clone. He just has a similar fighting style. They both learned martial arts from Master Rigatony in Brooklyn, so it makes sense.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Let's hope for alternative movesets then.

I'd take it over the half baked customisation of most Smash 4 characters

I'd rather have two different characters than one with two movesets.