Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Crap-Zapper]

Could someone bring me up to speed? It's been 30 pages since last night... Anything worth hearing about?

 

[MSmariosonic]

Could someone bring me up to speed? It's been 30 pages since last night... Anything worth hearing about?

Stephen Hawking passed away.



Oh you mean on SmashBoards?
A leak containing Ridley got 'disproven' and funimation wants Goku in Smash.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

You guys better not be neglecting Owl.

Dude's gonna be my Smash main once Winnie the Pooh representation is complete.

_________

I just wish we could get a better idea of who else might be low priority this time, therefore, who's at the greatest risk of being cut.

We have no reason to doubt that Dark Pit, Lucina and Doctor Mario are gonna be low priority. Jigglypuff will likely be on that list again as well (unfortunately).

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

The point wasn't to argue about Lucas/Wolf and the whole semi-clone status and whether or not they fit, the point was to say that they were the least unique among the cast that they felt like keeping. Basically, the fact that they considered them lower on their list of priorities. I probably should've clarified that a tad bit better. Either way, it's not that farfetched to believe that Lucina, Edgy Pit, and the good ol' doc are not very high up on that list, especially considering the Melee clones and what happened to most of them.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

99% sure they're joking and hopping on the train we are when we joke about Goku in Smash.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Stephen Hawking passed away.



Oh you mean on SmashBoards?
A leak containing Ridley got 'disproven' and funimation wants Goku in Smash.

Heard that, RIP.

Oh, the Ridley "rumour" disproven? How?
And what, who? I know Goku, but the company, who are they and why should we listen?

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

I just wish we could get a better idea of who else might be low priority this time, therefore, who's at the greatest risk of being cut.

We have no reason to doubt that Dark Pit, Lucina and Doctor Mario are gonna be low priority. Jigglypuff will likely be on that list again as well (unfortunately).

lolllll if you think an o12 is going away

just lol

also realtalk if lucina, doc and ****ing edgelord can come back then pichu and yink need to show back up too, **** that noise otherwise.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good news for you, my dude.

Everybody knows Funimation created DBZ.

 

[PLATINUM7]

The point wasn't to argue about Lucas/Wolf and the whole semi-clone status and whether or not they fit, the point was to say that they were the least unique among the cast that they felt like keeping. Basically, the fact that they considered them lower on their list of priorities. I probably should've clarified that a tad bit better. Either way, it's not that farfetched to believe that Lucina, Edgy Pit, and the good ol' doc are not very high up on that list, especially considering the Melee clones and what happened to most of them.

Toon Link was probably the least unique, moveset and appearance wise. Though WWHD was a thing, Mother 3 was just a localisation joke and Star Fox Zero probably came too late.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

You guys better not be neglecting Owl.

Dude's gonna be my Smash main once Winnie the Pooh representation is complete.

Rabbit is the only true Winnie-the-Pooh character we need and you know it.

I just wish we could get a better idea of who else might be low priority this time, therefore, who's at the greatest risk of being cut.

We have no reason to doubt that Dark Pit, Lucina and Doctor Mario are gonna be low priority. Jigglypuff will likely be on that list again as well (unfortunately).

Clones in general I feel are always gonna be low priority, as the only reason they could exist is spare development time. That said, Imma be angry if they cut my man Dr. Mario again.

As for other characters... honestly hard to tell because each one plays uniquely in their own regards and no matter what, cutting one of them is gonna leave at least someone upset. If I had to wager a guess, I'd say the DLC characters are at the most risk, mainly because we don't know how they're supposed to get treated in the next game. This is still new ground we're treading on, after all.

 

[Lord-Zero]

Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit being clones 100% fits their character, so there's that.

I’d love to argue that point. Those 3 characters deserved much better than what they got.

Dr. Mario: Reworked moveset incorporating the capsules and viruses more. Maybe even some different martial arts since this is a Mario that led a different life.

Lucina: In-game Awakening lore: She has Chrom’s fighting style and more of her personality could have been applied instead of being a direct Rule 63 Marth with no tipper gimmick.

Dark Pit: He came from Uprising and he has his unique Dark Pit Staff which was only used in a reskinned version of Zelda’s FS. They could have gone crazy with the amount of equipment there while leaving vanilla Pit with most of the classic stuff.

Cosmic77 BotW!Link there being right-handed is already shaking things up. Maybe Sakurai thought that it was finally time to “switch” things up. (pun totally intended)

I would be fine with a radical change; it just means I get to learn more new things.

 

[Cosmic77]

I just wish we could get a better idea of who else might be low priority this time, therefore, who's at the greatest risk of being cut.

We have no reason to doubt that Dark Pit, Lucina and Doctor Mario are gonna be low priority. Jigglypuff will likely be on that list again as well (unfortunately).

I've said this before, but we still don't know how much of a priority DLC will be. We've never had it before, so it's hard to say whether or not characters many of us thought were absolutely 100% guaranteed to return (Mewtwo and Bayo especially) are really as safe as we think they are.

Personally, Lucas and Roy are the only DLC characters I'm expecting to be low priority, but I'd be devastated to learn that my boy Mewtwo gets cut again because of his status as a DLC character.

Edit: Seems like MamaLuigi beat me to it.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

lolllll if you think an o12 is going away

just lol

I'm not saying Jigglypuff is going away. And I certainly don't think she is.

That said, it's pretty well known by now that Jigglypuff has always been a low priority character, evidenced by character data files in past Smash games. It's never come it, but it seems she would be an expendable character if, for whatever reason, development time did not allow for her completion.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

I feel like that can go down the road of brigading/witch hunting all too easily.

Somebody's dormant mod senses are tingling.

Oh right I'm supposed to say something relevant to smash in order to post.... so it's pi day and erm... the smash symbol kinda likes like a really oddly cut pie, so we're obviously getting a character reveal. Sakurai being the little scamp that he is will unveil the character e as in the numerical constant 2.717... That's my prediction.

 

[Starcutter]

Honestly, Semi-clones are great. I could easily see Zeke from Xenoblade 2 being an Ike semi-clone if Sakurai feels like it. They would have to change the specials but I think most of Ike's normals would work. I really couldn't see Zeke getting in the game otherwise lmao.

Semi-clones are the reason that Ganondorf, Roy and Falco even got in smash in the first place. While most clones aren't exactly representative of their true character, I'd rather have most of them as clones than not in at all.

 

[andimidna]

Am I the only one that feels like 2018 is just a liittle too soon? Like this was the perfect year to announce it, but the slow releases of information and discussion of Smash 4 were so iconic oml. I don’t know if a future Smash will live up to that. It really felt like we were at the point where the roster had room to go row but most of the major characters were covered, so anything could happen. I’m not saying there won’t be almost 70 characters in Smash Switch, I just don’t know. Honestly, if the roster was organized better, it wouldn’t be a big deal I bet.

Edit: I definitely think it’s time to stop adding semi clones as roster padding though. Alternate costumes are less work with the pay off that seems fit in most cases, like Alph, Daisy, and Lyn imo
Edit 2: But I wouldn’t do this to previous semi clones except maybe Dark Pit and Dr. Mario and maybe *maybe* Lucina and even Roy. Each one being less likely.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

And this is where I will disagree with you completely. That “interesting dimension” you speak of could have been better spent on actual alternate outfits for existing characters. The characters deserve better than “clone” treatment just to fatten up a roster for the sake of fattening it up.

The place where you disagree with me here is also the place where you're simply wrong, at least as you've expressed it.
On the first point, a couple things. First, are you seriously asserting that it's better for the game to focus solely on aesthetic changes than adding mechanical depth at the same time as still adding to aesthetics? Second, you realize that this isn't a small indie team, right? I highly doubt that there's any meaningful overlap between important modelers and important programmers, so there's no reason to suppose making a clone takes away from the ability to make costumes. Beyond that, Smash is at this point drowning in an excess of modeling art, as is readily displayed by the sheer volume of trophies. Since that's the only thing that would actually really need work, since rigging and animating by definition are already mostly done, there's no way it could lead to a negative impact.

And, again, you do seem to be missing that they do contribute to the game. It's not just making the roster larger so one can say that it's larger, it adds to the game. Take for example Fox and Falco in Melee. There's no substantive difference in art assets needed for their neutral specials, but they're used in completely different ways that are both useful and interesting. Same for their dairs and their down specials. I don't understand what you could possibly have against it.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

For characters I can see returning:
Anyone from 64 and Melee onwards are safe, no contest.
Ice Climbers were the only cut from the Melee vets from Brawl to Smash 4, and that was just because they couldn't get them to work for the 3ds.
Mewtwo and Bayonetta are also safe.
Mewtwo was the flagship of DLC, which likely exceeded their expectations, considering how much DLC we ended up getting.
Bayonetta is pretty much a Nintendo exclusive now, and considering she did so well in the ballot, it's doubtful she'd get cut.
I highly doubt Sakurai would remove either of them, especially Mewtwo, not after already doing so once and receiving backlash for it.
Most, if not all Brawl vets are safe. If any were to be cut, they probably would've done it in Smash 4.
So most of the cuts will likely be from Smash 4. Maybe add in Roy and Lucas as well, although I'm not certain on their status. Maybe they'd cut a Brawl vet or 2 if they really wanted space, but it's doubtful.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Rabbit is the only true Winnie-the-Pooh character we need and you know it.

Clones in general I feel are always gonna be low priority, as the only reason they could exist is spare development time. That said, Imma be angry if they cut my man Dr. Mario again.

As for other characters... honestly hard to tell because each one plays uniquely in their own regards and no matter what, cutting one of them is gonna leave at least someone upset. If I had to wager a guess, I'd say the DLC characters are at the most risk, mainly because we don't know how they're supposed to get treated in the next game. This is still new ground we're treading on, after all.

I've said this before, but we still don't know how much of a priority DLC will be. We've never had it before, so it's hard to say whether or not characters many of us thought were absolutely 100% guaranteed to return (Mewtwo and Bayo especially) are really as safe as we think they are.

Personally, Lucas and Roy are the only DLC characters I'm expecting to be low priority, but I'd be devastated to learn that my boy Mewtwo gets cut again because of his status as a DLC character.

Edit: Seems like MamaLuigi beat me to it.

I hope Mewtwo is in the game right off the bat this time around, among others.

This is all very true. There's no telling how DLC characters are going to be handled in the next game, though I'd imagine they wouldn't all get the exact same treatment (whatever it may be) based on the very virtue of being a DLC character. So there's that, at least. Most likely...

If Lucas and Mewtwo are anything to go by, I think some cut characters may still have a chance to return as DLC as well, possibly even clones. It's certainly far from a guarantee, though. Wolf didn't come back, after all.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

Am I the only one that feels like 2018 is just a liittle too soon? Like this was the perfect year to announce it, but the slow releases of information and discussion of Smash 4 were so iconic oml.

I can't blame Nintendo for wanting to maintain last year's momentum for the Switch though. The longer they can keep it going strong the better the initial sales figures thus making it look more attractive to third parties and cementing it's reputation in general, so that eventually it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And since they seem pretty unsure that Pokemon will be ready this year *cough* 2018 or later *cough* Smash seems like the next logical choice.

 

[Cosmic77]

I definitely think it’s time to stop adding semi clones as roster padding though. Alternate costumes are less work with the pay off that seems fit in most cases, like Alph, Daisy, and Lyn imo

I don't really have a problem with semi-clones. Smash 4 didn't even get any newcomer semi-clones.

I do have an issue with true clones though. I feel like there's at least enough time for Sakurai to make the specials function just a little differently like how Lucas and Roy's do.

I hope Mewtwo is in the game right off the bat this time around, among others.

Out of all the returning Pokémon characters, Mewtwo would certainly cause the biggest splash of excitement. Dare I dream of Mewtwo getting on the game's cover?

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Goku is owned by Shonen Jump/Shueisha.

On another note, what are people thinking about in terms of final smash changes?

I would change Falco's from Landmaster to an Arwing. Basically like it is now in terms of function, but more air focused.

: PSI Rockin'
: PK Love
: Masked Dedede
: Ash-Greninja
: Twinkle Tackle
: Hypermode
: Darksphere
: Arwing
: Strong Kong
: Eggdozer

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I'm not saying Jigglypuff is going away. And I certainly don't think she is.

That said, it's pretty well known by now that Jigglypuff has always been a low priority character, evidenced by character data files in past Smash games. It's never come it, but it seems she would be an expendable character if, for whatever reason, development time did not allow for her completion.

yeah honestly Jigglypuff seems like this deadweight the series carries around for the sake of having her. This is both shown how she's been among the last characters added to Brawl and Smash 4, as well as how her attacks and attributes are generally unchanged

I’d love to argue that point. Those 3 characters deserved much better than what they got.

Dr. Mario: Reworked moveset incorporating the capsules and viruses more. Maybe even some different martial arts since this is a Mario that led a different life.

Lucina: In-game Awakening lore: She has Chrom’s fighting style and more of her personality could have been applied instead of being a direct Rule 63 Marth with no tipper gimmick.

Dark Pit: He came from Uprising and he has his unique Dark Pit Staff which was only used in a reskinned version of Zelda’s FS. They could have gone crazy with the amount of equipment there while leaving vanilla Pit with most of the classic stuff.

Cosmic77 BotW!Link there being right-handed is already shaking things up. Maybe Sakurai thought that it was finally time to “switch” things up. (pun totally intended)

I would be fine with a radical change; it just means I get to learn more new things.

Just to play Devil's Advocate for a bit:

Uh, no, the fact Dr. Mario is just Mario in a doctor's costume makes me think Dr. Mario, as he is, is represented perfectly. Besides, throwing Megavitamins gives Dr. Mario the right amount of attack representation it needs, since that's all Dr. Mario does in his games. And where did you get the "different life" aspect from? Is this some Zelda-style alternate timeline ****?
Now I haven't played Fire Emblem Awakening, so forgive me if my logic here is false, but wasn't one of the big plotpoints in that game Lucina disguising herself as Marth? In that aspect, I feel she's accurately represented.
Dark Pit was a literal clone of Pit, both lore-wise and gameplay-wise in Kid Icarus: Uprising. Perhaps Dark Pit Staff could have been made more different of a Final Smash, or perhaps replaced Silver Arrow as a neutral special, but that's about all I can come up with.

So far you've given me no reason to assume that these three deserve more than what they already have. Not that I dislike their inclusion for the most part, just stating my opinions as they are.

 

[Lord-Zero]

DLC character priority? Tricky, very tricky this time.

Bowser Jr. was a low-priority character during the development of the vanilla version of Smash 4. Clones and especially semi-clones will most likely be on the chopping block for the vanilla version of Smash 5.

As for Jiggs: They tried to bring it back in the Pokemon Su/Mo anime. Has it appeared again after coming to Alola? Out of the original 12, yes, Jigglypuff would be the one with the lowest priority.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

: Strong Kong
: Eggdozer

What is it with people wanting way less interesting Final Smashes? Like characters being invincible and nothing else?

 

[?????????????]

What is it with people wanting way less interesting Final Smashes? Like characters being invincible and nothing else?

I miss some of the more unique ones they cut, like Negative Zone and Waddle Dee Army.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I miss some of the more unique ones they cut, like Negative Zone and Waddle Dee Army.

Negative Zone honestly made no damn sense in Brawl.

It felt more like Sakurai's headcanon than something Luigi would actually do.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The winner of the last poll was none other than Arvis. It’s quite rare when a villain happen to beat the main Lord (Sigurd) and their love interest (Deirdre). Manfroy simply flopped out of lack of interest.

Next will focus on the Second Geberation aspect of Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy War. Your choices are Seliph, Julia, Julius, and Lewyn.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin.

 

[andimidna]

The only one I know is Seliph lmao sorry

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Out of all the returning Pokémon characters, Mewtwo would certainly cause the biggest splash of excitement. Dare I dream of Mewtwo getting on the game's cover?

Greninja was hype, but Mewtwo has always taken the cake.

One can certainly hope...

I miss some of the more unique ones they cut, like Negative Zone and Waddle Dee Army.

Waddle Dee Army should have stayed, Gordo Toss or not.

 

[PK_Wonder]

The winner of the last poll was none other than Arvis. It’s quite rare when a villain happen to beat the main Lord (Sigurd) and their love interest (Deirdre). Manfroy simply flopped out of lack of interest.

Next will focus on the Second Geberation aspect of Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy War. Your choices are Seliph, Julia, Julius, and Lewyn.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin.

Is there anywhere you have all the results of your polls easily accessible? You Tweet too much for me to just go hunting!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Reggie is coming to Smash, guys.

He was one of the most requested characters in Smash 4, he is first party, iconic and deserving.
He even made a cameo in Miis's trailer, so yeah, I think Sakurai could maybe, start introducing real people, because Cloud broke all the rules.

Don't forget to add a Smash OC along with Reggie!

The point wasn't to argue about Lucas/Wolf and the whole semi-clone status and whether or not they fit, the point was to say that they were the least unique among the cast that they felt like keeping. Basically, the fact that they considered them lower on their list of priorities.

Toon Link was far less unique than every cut Smash 4 character and he was a high priority returning character in Smash 4. Don't forget than Falco was also a higher priority returning character in Brawl than Mewtwo, which proves that being a clone =/= always low priority character.

've said this before, but we still don't know how much of a priority DLC will be. We've never had it before, so it's hard to say whether or not characters many of us thought were absolutely 100% guaranteed to return (Mewtwo and Bayo especially) are really as safe as we think they are.

Personally, Lucas and Roy are the only DLC characters I'm expecting to be low priority, but I'd be devastated to learn that my boy Mewtwo gets cut again because of his status as a DLC character.

I think it's important to note that DLC characters in other fighting games often don't have a great track record of returning to the base roster of a sequel. It doesn't mean every single DLC character will be cut, but it is something interesting to note.

[QUOTE="KingofPhantoms, post: 21953699, member: 218535"]That said, it's pretty well known by now that Jigglypuff has always been a low priority character, evidenced by character data files in past Smash games. It's never come it, but it seems she would be an expendable character if, for whatever reason, development time did not allow for her completion.[/QUOTE]

That's only true in Brawl, whereas in Melee and Smash 4 she was one of the higher priority characters. The only characters that we know we low priority additions in Smash 4 were Bowser Jr. and the 3 additional clones.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Negative Zone honestly made no damn sense in Brawl.

It felt more like Sakurai's headcanon than something Luigi would actually do.

I liked it better. Make Poltergust 5000 the down special.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The winner of the last poll was none other than Arvis. It’s quite rare when a villain happen to beat the main Lord (Sigurd) and their love interest (Deirdre). Manfroy simply flopped out of lack of interest.

Next will focus on the Second Geberation aspect of Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy War. Your choices are Seliph, Julia, Julius, and Lewyn.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin.

Yooo Lewyn would be so hype, would be great to see him bust out Forseti for his final Smash.

Kinda disappointing that we'll likely never see a non-lord/MC from Fire Emblem. Most of the main characters tend to reuse design elements, and a lot of the really interesting characters just have too minor of a role to be in smash.

 

[Chandeelure]

: PSI Rockin'
: PK Love
: Masked Dedede
: Ash-Greninja
: Twinkle Tackle
: Hypermode
: Darksphere
: Arwing
: Strong Kong
: Eggdozer

I always thought Ness's and Lucas's normal PSI Attacks (Tilts, Aerials, Smashes, etc.) were variations of PK Rockin' and Love.

 

[Fenriraga]

Here's another talking point.

Anyone had a Smash character that you were introduced to through Smash, went to play/complete and love their original games... But you just can't look at them in Smash and put them together with their origin no matter how hard you try?

For my own example, and . Went and played both Earthbound and Mother 3 to completion, love both games (ESPECIALLY Mother 3), but no matter how hard I try, I can't help but look at both of them like different characters from their origin games. Maybe it's because their attacks... Well, literally aren't their own. I have a similar problem with and .

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

The winner of the last poll was none other than Arvis. It’s quite rare when a villain happen to beat the main Lord (Sigurd) and their love interest (Deirdre). Manfroy simply flopped out of lack of interest.

Next will focus on the Second Geberation aspect of Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy War. Your choices are Seliph, Julia, Julius, and Lewyn.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin.

'Ey, my girl Julia. She's an absolute monster on my team in Fire Emblem Heroes, so I think I know who's got my vote.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Here's another talking point.

Anyone had a Smash character that you were introduced to through Smash, went to play/complete and love their original games... But you just can't look at them in Smash and put them together with their origin no matter how hard you try?

For my own example, and . Went and played both Earthbound and Mother 3 to completion, love both games (ESPECIALLY Mother 3), but no matter how hard I try, I can't help but look at both of them like different characters from their origin games. Maybe it's because their attacks... Well, literally aren't their own. I have a similar problem with and .

Literally anyone not from the Mario series.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

That's only true in Brawl, whereas in Melee and Smash 4 she was one of the higher priority characters. The only characters that we know we low priority additions in Smash 4 were Bowser Jr. and the 3 additional clones.

I don't at all recall hearing anything about her be higher priority in Melee or Smash 4. If that's true, then that's news to me.

 

[Lord-Zero]

The place where you disagree with me here is also the place where you're simply wrong, at least as you've expressed it.
On the first point, a couple things. First, are you seriously asserting that it's better for the game to focus solely on aesthetic changes than adding mechanical depth at the same time as still adding to aesthetics? Second, you realize that this isn't a small indie team, right? I highly doubt that there's any meaningful overlap between important modelers and important programmers, so there's no reason to suppose making a clone takes away from the ability to make costumes. Beyond that, Smash is at this point drowning in an excess of modeling art, as is readily displayed by the sheer volume of trophies. Since that's the only thing that would actually really need work, since rigging and animating by definition are already mostly done, there's no way it could lead to a negative impact.

The time is better spent on actual alt costumes and further polishing the game. You support clones and I’m against them. We’re on completely different sides so we’ll never come to an agreement. Clones were a practice done in the past as a way to pad out a roster to give the costumer as much “content” as possible since games couldn’t be updated or patched post-launch. In the era of DLC, post-game updates and patching, the developers are better off must focusing that “extra time” elsewhere. I mentioned actual alternate outfits due to the fact that it’s been one of Smash’s main weaknesses. What Smash gets for the most part are quick texture color swaps.

And, again, you do seem to be missing that they do contribute to the game. It's not just making the roster larger so one can say that it's larger, it adds to the game. Take for example Fox and Falco in Melee. There's no substantive difference in art assets needed for their neutral specials, but they're used in completely different ways that are both useful and interesting. Same for their dairs and their down specials. I don't understand what you could possibly have against it.

They contribute nothing but needless roster bloating in my eyes. The characters in question deserve better. If we go by your logic, we could end up with over 10 Fox variants/clones just by tweaking the properties. That feels like the developers would be cheating off a potential costumer. That is what I’m against.