Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Technically we might be forced to play the original 8 first

Seeing as how you only have access to the original eight at first

Right, i willingly forgot about that. I hope characters will be unlockable via the 'spirit'/hypothetical story mode.

 

[Noipoi]

Right, i willingly forgot about that. I hope characters will be unlockable via the 'spirit' or hypothetical story mode.

That's probably exactly how they're gonna be unlocked, the only question is how long it'll take.
I like to make my games last, so i'm fine if it'll take a while. But other people might want to get to certain characters fast.

 

[Shroob]

So, are people still going to say that next week and soforth is still 'too early' for a Direct when next week is more or less a Month and a half until launch? We'll be sub-50 days by next Wednesday.

 

[CosmicQuark]

All this would mean is that Steve isn't a character.
Doesn't contradict Verge when there could still be an Assist (like Shovel Knight, where Yacht Club Games doesn't need to be credited for characters) or a stage.

Legalities don't give a **** if an intellectual property is playable or not. All that matters is the intellectual property is in the build, which Yacht Club games wasn't.

Right, i willingly forgot about that. I hope characters will be unlockable via the 'spirit'/hypothetical story mode.

Yeah, but I'm guessing in order to play that mode... you'll need to play as a character first. However, I like it--I need some means of single player progression (since I don't have any friends)

 

[KMDP]

....Konami's already there.

Didn't see the Smash Ultimate screen.

It's the sign that I should be going to bed.

 

[Zinith]

Right, i willingly forgot about that. I hope characters will be unlockable via the 'spirit'/hypothetical story mode.

Both of us have "Original 8 Privilege"

 

[Noipoi]

So, are people still going to say that next week and soforth is still 'too early' for a Direct when next week is more or less a Month and a half until launch? We'll be sub-50 days by next Wednesday.

We might not get anything until very early November, and I guarantee you someone would say it's still too early.

 

[Deleted member]

Legalities don't give a **** if an intellectual property is playable or not. All that matters is the intellectual property is in the build, which Yacht Club games wasn't.

.....do you not know what you're even talking about?
The Title Screen specifically lists copyrights for characters and characters only.
Even if Shovel Knight was in the E3 Build, Yacht Club Games WOULD NOT be on that list. Nor would they EVER be on that list, even in the final build.

 

[Noipoi]

Both of us have "Original 8 Privilege"

I don't go making it obvious, but i'm a big Pikachu fan.
I have no issue being stuck with him until I unlock some other characters.

 

[Deleted member]

So, are people still going to say that next week and soforth is still 'too early' for a Direct when next week is more or less a Month and a half until launch? We'll be sub-50 days by next Wednesday.

Nah, next week sounds good. It's the earliest I personally was expecting something. TBH I feel like first week of November will be the latest it could happen; if we go past that, I will definitely be surprised.

 

[Deoxys911]

If the alternative to amiibo and Spirits is once again to unlock the extra 60+ characters by playing a certain number of multiplayer matches, just image what the process would be like if you decided to unlock everyone that way. I know what you'll be doing for the entire first two days the game is out!

 

[CosmicQuark]

.....do you not know what you're even talking about?
The Title Screen specifically lists copyrights for characters and characters only.
Even if Shovel Knight was in the E3 Build, Yacht Club Games WOULD NOT be on that list. Nor would they EVER be on that list, even in the final build.

Name a copyrighted character, playable or not, who was in the demo but not listed in the demo screen? If there is, then I'm wrong. If there isn't, then I'm pretty sure copyright is completely agnostic as to whether or not a character is playable. All that matters, legally, is that intellectual property is in the build.

 

[NineS]

.....do you not know what you're even talking about?
The Title Screen specifically lists copyrights for characters and characters only.
Even if Shovel Knight was in the E3 Build, Yacht Club Games WOULD NOT be on that list. Nor would they EVER be on that list, even in the final build.

Not related to that, since I agree that the copyrights are for characters only, but...

Shouldn't Platinum Games be on that title screen knowing their involvement with Bayonetta? Or is it publishers only?

 

[Admiral Pit]

If you don't mind, i have i smash related question What's the very first character that you intend to play when you get Ultimate (excluding potential newcomer obviously)? For me it's going to be K.Rool for sure, he seems like a ton of fun to play.

Based on the information and such that we were shown, and thanks to the demo footage shown and in-depth analysis routines, is my number one focus, and then there's . I do need more information to determine where will be, though I hope she's better than her s4 self. Should they be playable, Phosphora, Medusa, and Monster Hunter will take high priority, though Pit stays as number one for the time being unless something happens.
I do want to test too, but that's really it. As for other characters, I may also have interest in testing for specific reasons, but this is not absolute yet.

 

[Deoxys911]

Name a copyrighted character, playable or not, who was in the demo but not listed in the demo screen? If there is, then I'm wrong. If there isn't, then I'm pretty sure copyright is completely agnostic as to whether or not a character is playable. All that matters, legally, is that intellectual property is in the build.

Name a copyrighted character who was in the last game, playable or not, whose copyright information wasn't listed on the title screen.

Spoiler

Rayman

Spoiler: Bonus

Shovel Knight

Not related to that, since I agree that the copyrights are for characters only, but...

Shouldn't Platinum Games be on that title screen knowing their involvement with Bayonetta? Or is it publishers only?

SEGA owns all rights to Bayonetta, just as Nintendo owns all rights to many of their subsidiaries' characters, thus only SEGA needs to be listed. The real question is why Street Fighter is technically owned by Capcom U.S.A. rather than regular Capcom...

 

[NineS]

Based on the information and such that we were shown, and thanks to the demo footage shown and in-depth analysis routines, is my number one focus, and then there's . I do need more information to determine where will be, though I hope she's better than her s4 self. Should they be playable, Phosphora, Medusa, and Monster Hunter will take high priority, though Pit stays as number one for the time being unless something happens.
I do want to test too, but that's really it. As for other characters, I may also have interest in testing for specific reasons, but this is not absolute yet.

I absolutely adore the Kid Icarus Franchise. Kid icarus, along with the Legend of Zelda, are my top two favorite franchises in Smash. I honestly hope Phosphora gets playable, with Medusa as an echo, but if either of them get in, I feel like it'd only be one of them... Likely Medusa. Unless Sakurai pulls a Sakurai on us.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not related to that, since I agree that the copyrights are for characters only, but...

Shouldn't Platinum Games be on that title screen knowing their involvement with Bayonetta? Or is it publishers only?

Platinum Games doesn't own Bayonetta. Sega does.

Name a copyrighted character, playable or not, who was in the demo but not listed in the demo screen? If there is, then I'm wrong. If there isn't, then I'm pretty sure copyright is completely agnostic as to whether or not a character is playable. All that matters, legally, is that intellectual property is in the build.

It's all over the actual Smash website. It can't be referring to anything but playable characters unless Nintendo magically forgot to list a full company. It has nothing to do with the demo but is the official copyright listing. I'm sure it'll update if a new playable character like Steve? comes along, but right now, it clearly is about Playable Characters only.

 

[Fane]

Why do people keep claiming Bandana Dee is some super important main protagonist? He’s playable in a grand total of 2 games, one of which only came out this year. Outside of that, he’s appeared in just a handful of games as a glorified cameo basically.

He’s just a multi colored toad from NSMB. A place holder generic NPC for the multiplayer. /rant

Ahh yes, because being playable equates to importance.

You know how we have the four mainstays of Super Mario Bros. in Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser? Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight, and Bandana Dee are Kirby's equivalent to them.

Absolutely ridiculous to compare him to a 'multi-colored Toad from NSMB', and let's not even bring up the brainless "goomba with hat!1!!" argument.

If you don't support a character, then keep it to yourself instead of trying to argue against their inclusion.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Name a copyrighted character who was in the last game, playable or not, whose copyright information wasn't listed on the title screen.

Spoiler

Rayman

Spoiler: Bonus

Shovel Knight

As far as I know, they were not in the Smash Ultimate build, especially Rayman.

Here's a way to understand the legalities: If I create a game where I have Mario in it, but he's not playable--you think Nintendo's going to be like "Oh, well we want to sue them to take them down for having our intellectual property, but he's not playable so it's okay." As far as I know, the only reason why only those companies are on that screen is because all of those companies had their intellectual property in the demo build, in some form. It doesn't matter what form, legally, they must include all of it.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Both of us have "Original 8 Privilege"

I don't go making it obvious, but i'm a big Pikachu fan.
I have no issue being stuck with him until I unlock some other characters.

I'm hype for Pikachu, he was my secondary in smash 64 and melee back in the days. Plus he got some good buffs for Ultimate imo:

Spoiler: Pikachu (SSBU) - smashwiki

Attributes[edit]

• Like all characters, Pikachu's jumpsquat animation now takes three frames to complete.
• Pikachu's air speed is faster.

Ground attacks[edit]

• Neutral attack has greater range.
• Forward tilt has an electric effect.
• Forward tilt has slightly increased ending lag.
• Up angled forward tilt deals more damage.
• Pikachu has a new up tilt which has Pikachu scooting its backside up to hit with its tail.
• Up tilt deals less damage and has increased endlag.
• Down tilt has a slightly altered animation, which has Pikachu's tail stand a little more upright at the end.
• Dash attack has less ending lag, and the sweetspot deals more damage.
• Up smash deals less knockback.
• Down smash deals less damage.
• Down smash has reduced ending lag.

Aerial attacks[edit]

• Pikachu has a new neutral aerial: it releases an electric surge around itself in an all fours stance with its tail pointing upward, which hits multiple times, much like Mewtwo's neutral aerial. It has a better combo ability with much lower landing lag.
• Forward aerial deals more damage if all hits connect, with the last hit having more knockback.
• Back aerial has more startup, weaker knockback and the last hit deals less damage.
• Back aerial ends much sooner with much less landing lag.
• Back aerial has an altered ending animation.
• Down aerial can meteor smash opponents.[1]
• Down aerial has more endlag.

Throws/other attacks[edit]

• Forward throw has slightly more vertical knockback, which may help with edge guarding but hinder combos slightly.[2]
• Forward throw deals more damage.
• Up throw deals more damage.[3]
• Up throw has slightly altered knockback, reducing its follow up potential.
• Down throw has the same knockback, but it deals less damage.

Special Moves[edit]

• Aerial Thunder Jolt deals more damage.
• Grounded Thunder Jolt has slightly shorter startup.
• Uncharged Skull Bash deals slightly more damage and bounces back when it hits.
• Skull Bash has greatly reduced endlag.
• Skull Bash travels a shorter distance.
• Quick Attack now has an angle indicator to telegraph Pikachu's trajectory.
• Quick Attack deals slightly more knockback, launching opponents more effectively but reducing its combo potential.
• The electricity discharged when the lightning from Thunder strikes Pikachu is yellow rather than blue, and has Pikachu flash with a dark tint.
• Thunder is stronger, and deals more knockback.
• Thunder has more startup and endlag.
• Pikachu glows a bright yellow after zapping itself with Thunder.
• Volt Tackle now involves it dashing quickly forward while surrounded by a ball of electricity. If it connects, it speeds around the stage at different angles, racking up damage before launching opponents with an electric blast at the end of the move as the ball disappears.
  • If it misses, Pikachu may self-destruct.

 

[NineS]

As far as I know, they were not in the Smash Ultimate build, especially Rayman.

Here's a way to understand the legalities: If I create a game where I have Mario in it, but he's not playable--you think Nintendo's going to be like "Oh, well we want to sue them to take them down for having our intellectual property, but he's not playable so it's okay." As far as I know, the only reason why only those companies are on that screen is because all of those companies had their intellectual property in the demo build, in some form. It doesn't matter what form, legally, they must include all of it.

This is from the website. It's definitely fighters only, regardless of the demo build.
Fairly confident this isn't the permanent copyright list, especially with DLC in account.

 

[Deoxys911]

As far as I know, they were not in the Smash Ultimate build, especially Rayman.

Here's a way to understand the legalities: If I create a game where I have Mario in it, but he's not playable--you think Nintendo's going to be like "Oh, well we want to sue them to take them down for having our intellectual property, but he's not playable so it's okay." As far as I know, the only reason why only those companies are on that screen is because all of those companies had their intellectual property in the demo build, in some form. It doesn't matter what form, legally, they must include all of it.

But the thing is, why would they be handling the copyright differently in this game than in the one that just came out several years ago? Unless laws have changed, there is no reason for them to do so.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm pretty sure either Marx or Magalor will be a boss in Spirits mode

I want Kracko to be the Kirby boss, he's such a simple boss that would translate over to Smash seamlessly, and his attendance record in the Kirby series is stellar to say the least. Bonus points if Kirby can actually gain an ability from inhaling the Waddles Doos he drops.

As a bit of an aside, a lot of the time when it comes to boss suggestions I feel like people only look at final bosses, but I find that a lot of my favorite options are middle of the road bosses or the like.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I absolutely adore the Kid Icarus Franchise. Kid icarus, along with the Legend of Zelda, are my top two favorite franchises in Smash. I honestly hope Phosphora gets playable, with Medusa as an echo, but if either of them get in, I feel like it'd only be one of them... Likely Medusa. Unless Sakurai pulls a Sakurai on us.

Just knowing there's fellow Phosphora supporters like you out there make me smile sometimes. While I know Medusa would have higher priority given her status, Phosphora is definitely underrated. She's fast, could be aggressive, we've actually seen her fight that showed off some of her abilities, and with a bit of creativity, I could imagine her being a quick and aggressive fighter that can fight in short bursts, with a "Battery Gauge" that determines the strength of many of her attacks, which she can recharge with one of her moves... honorable mention to me thinking she should take reduced damage from electric attacks, and she could recharge a bit of her battery gauge from electric attacks (shielding em counts too).
Oh well... I tried to think of a moveset for her long ago, but laziness (I probably should finish it one day). Plus her being around would promote more Pit/Phosphora greatness, let alone just more KI art in general, for I feel that KI art in general is rare now-a-days, and makes me sad sometimes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Putting your copyrights in the title screen for playable characters only makes a lot of sense. They're the feature of Smash. Like, the selling point.

The other copyrights can be in the results screen as per the norm. As long as they're in the game. It's been like that for a longgggggg time. Rayman did get his respective copyright... just not on the title screen.

 

[Zinith]

I want Kracko to be the Kirby boss, he's such a simple boss that would translate over to Smash seamlessly, and his attendance record in the Kirby series is stellar to say the least. Bonus points if Kirby can actually gain an ability from inhaling the Waddles Doos he drops.

As a bit of an aside, a lot of the time when it comes to boss suggestions I feel like people only look at final bosses, but I find that a lot of my favorite options are middle of the road bosses or the like.

I have suggested every boss from Yoshi's Island OTHER than Baby Bowser. I'm definitely on your side on this...

 

[Deleted member]

Not related to that, since I agree that the copyrights are for characters only, but...

Shouldn't Platinum Games be on that title screen knowing their involvement with Bayonetta? Or is it publishers only?

Only Sega and Nintendo are credited for Bayonetta. Even on her page on Smash 4 DLC.

 

[CosmicQuark]

This is from the website. It's definitely fighters only, regardless of the demo build.
Fairly confident this isn't the permanent copyright list, especially with DLC in account.

But the thing is, why would they be handling the copyright differently in this game than in the one that just came out several years ago? Unless laws have changed, there is no reason for them to do so.

Those are some good points. The website, as is listed, is subject to change, though it's weird to have Shovel Knight's IP on the website without listing his legal information. Much more apt, though, I see the point of Ubisoft not being credited on Smash 4's screen (I thought you meant they were in the demo build).

As far as I know, legalities are agnostic in terms of whether or not a character is playable. Perhaps I'm wrong, but we'll find out soon enough anyways.

 

[NineS]

So, for those of us that are still hopeful or just want something to look forward to, what do people think the odds are of us getting a direct announced today? I know a lot of us already lost hope for this week, but I'm curious nonetheless.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I have suggested every boss from Yoshi's Island OTHER than Baby Bowser. I'm definitely on your side on this...

For a Yoshi's Island boss I'd absolutely love Raphael the Raven, complete with the star constellation once he's defeated, it's just such a charming boss.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Night guys. Hope for y'all at some some chance an announcement is made tomorrow.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Here's another bit of evidence that points to legal information contains stuff not in the build. On the Brawl demo, Konami's listed, even though Snake (as far as I know) was not in that demo build. That being said, the demo was after Snake's announcement, so it wouldn't have spoiled anything by including their legal information. Not what I would have expected, so there may be something to this.

 

[Noipoi]

So, for those of us that are still hopeful or just want something to look forward to, what do people think the odds are of us getting a direct announced today? I know a lot of us already lost hope for this week, but I'm curious nonetheless.

Well it's my birthday so i'd say the chances are extremely high.

 

[Zinith]

Oh right Noipoi Happy Birthday!!!

 

[NineS]

Here's another bit of evidence that points to legal information contains stuff not in the build. On the Brawl demo, Konami's listed, even though Snake (as far as I know) was not in that demo build. That being said, the demo was after Snake's announcement, so it wouldn't have spoiled anything by including their legal information. Not what I would have expected, so there may be something to this.

The date listed there is 10/11/07 It's this anniversary
However... Snake's entry on the Smash Bros Dojo was September, a month before. People knew he was in the game before this demo.

So even if he wasn't necessarily in the Demo, he was already known to be in the game beforehand, like our current situation.

EDIT: I reread your post, and I realized you already knew this. My bad. Still believe this points towards the copyright credits on the title changing as time goes on if we get more 3rd party characters, however.

 

[Noipoi]

Oh right Noipoi Happy Birthday!!!

Why thank you!

 

[NineS]

Why thank you!

Happy birthday, by the way. Hope your wish comes true. And remember, don't tell anyone or else the universe will cancel the wish.

 

[papagenos]

Here's another bit of evidence that points to legal information contains stuff not in the build. On the Brawl demo, Konami's listed, even though Snake (as far as I know) was not in that demo build. That being said, the demo was after Snake's announcement, so it wouldn't have spoiled anything by including their legal information. Not what I would have expected, so there may be something to this.

Now that is very interesting since snake wasnt in that demo at all.

I like this title screen theory i think its on to something given the history of smash title screens.

 

[CosmicQuark]

The date listed there is 10/11/07 It's this anniversary
However... Snake's entry on the Smash Bros Dojo was September, a month before. People knew he was in the game before this demo.

Indeed, I pointed that out in my last statement. I wish we had access to a demo that was before a character's announcement to have a definitive answer. But it looks like we'll have to wait and see if there's any more playable third party characters.

 

[NineS]

Indeed, I pointed that out in my last statement. I wish we had access to a demo that was before a character's announcement to have a definitive answer. But it looks like we'll have to wait and see if there's any more playable third party characters.

Yeah, I realized that. I edited my statement to fix that. Apologies!

Now that is very interesting since snake wasnt in that demo at all.

I like this title screen theory i think its on to something given the history of smash title screens.

Do you think this might become a new theory on the rise?