Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[**Gilgamesh**]

I'm still convinced a reveal of SOME sort at Big House is more likely than we all think.

Would demonstrate Nintendo's embrace of the competitive scene and makes for great PR, and they're already pushing Big House on social media.

When does BH end again?

Just to let people know. Nintendo Versus has been tweeting about Smash tournaments long before Smash Ultimate was revealed.

 

[Jetsurge]

Oh no doubt. I was talking about orginial newcomers, not echo fighters. I think him and Ken are going to be the last ones we get. I want believe that Impa will be in as one, be when has Smash ever paid attention to Zelda, right?

i think Medusa, Dixie, Ken and Shadow will be the last echoes leading to a nice total of 10

 

[Untouch]

Dragon Quest has something like 5 different stakeholders I believe? One of whom owns the rights to any music is infamous for not working with people outside of the Dragon Quest team.

On the other hand Sakurai became friends with Nomura through working on Cloud so he’s already got an “in” for Sora.

There's 3.
Armor Project (Horii)
Bird Studio (Toriyama)
Sugiyama (Sugiyama)

Sakurai is friends with Horii and Toriyama is directly involved with Bamco (they own the rights to the Dragon Ball games, he designed Android 21), so only Sugiyama is an issue here.

I feel they COULD go with a Fortune Street stage, since half the stages are Mario related they could avoid having to use the music altogether.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

So, I made a list of who I think the most possible/likely newcomers are for Ultimate:

• Incineroar
• Elma
• Isaac
• Mach Rider
• Steve
• Geno
• A Dragon Quest Protagonist

Feel free to give me your input.

Shadow and ken are missing from your list

And to tell the truth i was still keeping an eye on Mach rider

I don’t think the song in the game necessary deconfirm him or her which ever it is.

 

[papagenos]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/434356491#p434359078

random 4chan leak but its about music tracks so thats a little interesting over the usual fighter leaks.

it says:

"I'm a Foley and sound mixer out of Palo Alto. I'm a Nintendo fan boy I don't know every game so bear with me: I only worked on very few tracks.

-A track that I'm totally sure was 'Vanilla Lake' from Mario Kart for SNES. It has a really strong bossa nova sound and used two acoustic guitars
-A song that sounded kinda like Fire Emblem and had me overlay a vocal female choir track
- A song from Mario RPG, it was the boss battle theme like when you fight Mack but it sounded like cheesy piano house music from Persona It almost sounded like Jamiroquai
-Some song that I'm just going to guess was Castlevania because it was total Buttrock, it has faint bagpipes in certain parts
-A song that sounded like Fantastic Plastic Machine's 'Reaching For The Stars', I don't know what game this was from. "

 

[Rie Sonomura]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/434356491#p434359078

random 4chan leak but its about music tracks so thats a little interesting over the usual fighter leaks.

it says:

"I'm a Foley and sound mixer out of Palo Alto. I'm a Nintendo fan boy I don't know every game so bear with me: I only worked on very few tracks.

-A track that I'm totally sure was 'Vanilla Lake' from Mario Kart for SNES. It has a really strong bossa nova sound and used two acoustic guitars
-A song that sounded kinda like Fire Emblem and had me overlay a vocal female choir track
- A song from Mario RPG, it was the boss battle theme like when you fight Mack but it sounded like cheesy piano house music from Persona It almost sounded like Jamiroquai
-Some song that I'm just going to guess was Castlevania because it was total Buttrock, it has faint bagpipes in certain parts
-A song that sounded like Fantastic Plastic Machine's 'Reaching For The Stars', I don't know what game this was from. "

The second song... Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE music??

Just let me dream...

 

[Danpal65]

There's 3.
Armor Project (Horii)
Bird Studio (Toriyama)
Sugiyama (Sugiyama)

Sakurai is friends with Horii and Toriyama is directly involved with Bamco (they own the rights to the Dragon Ball games, he designed Android 21), so only Sugiyama is an issue here.

I feel they COULD go with a Fortune Street stage, since half the stages are Mario related they could avoid having to use the music altogether.

Victory theme would be pretty hard without DQ music

 

[Michele]

I'm still convinced a reveal of SOME sort at Big House is more likely than we all think.

Would demonstrate Nintendo's embrace of the competitive scene and makes for great PR, and they're already pushing Big House on social media.

When does BH end again?

I don't know, but the schedule reads that it ends at 9 PM today in EDT. Sounds like a VERY tardy time if you ask me.

 

[osby]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/434356491#p434359078

random 4chan leak but its about music tracks so thats a little interesting over the usual fighter leaks.

it says:

"I'm a Foley and sound mixer out of Palo Alto. I'm a Nintendo fan boy I don't know every game so bear with me: I only worked on very few tracks.

-A track that I'm totally sure was 'Vanilla Lake' from Mario Kart for SNES. It has a really strong bossa nova sound and used two acoustic guitars
-A song that sounded kinda like Fire Emblem and had me overlay a vocal female choir track
- A song from Mario RPG, it was the boss battle theme like when you fight Mack but it sounded like cheesy piano house music from Persona It almost sounded like Jamiroquai
-Some song that I'm just going to guess was Castlevania because it was total Buttrock, it has faint bagpipes in certain parts
-A song that sounded like Fantastic Plastic Machine's 'Reaching For The Stars', I don't know what game this was from. "

"Cheesy piano house music from Persona"? Are we sure this guy works on music?

 

[beans]

The second song... Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE music??

Just let me dream...

Oh man, now I really want Barry in Smash. He is with dog suit and makes everyone uncomfortable.

 

[Cosmic77]

I've already asked this, but how would you feel if Shadow got in as a semi-clone instead of an Echo?

I think Tails and Knuckles would be better choices for a unique character, but I'm not gonna complain if we get someone else like Shadow. I'm not a huge Sonic fan though, so my opinion probably doesn't mean much.

 

[Deleted member]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/434356491#p434359078

random 4chan leak but its about music tracks so thats a little interesting over the usual fighter leaks.

it says:

"I'm a Foley and sound mixer out of Palo Alto. I'm a Nintendo fan boy I don't know every game so bear with me: I only worked on very few tracks.

-A track that I'm totally sure was 'Vanilla Lake' from Mario Kart for SNES. It has a really strong bossa nova sound and used two acoustic guitars
-A song that sounded kinda like Fire Emblem and had me overlay a vocal female choir track
- A song from Mario RPG, it was the boss battle theme like when you fight Mack but it sounded like cheesy piano house music from Persona It almost sounded like Jamiroquai
-Some song that I'm just going to guess was Castlevania because it was total Buttrock, it has faint bagpipes in certain parts
-A song that sounded like Fantastic Plastic Machine's 'Reaching For The Stars', I don't know what game this was from. "

OH HEY, IT'S MUSIC, MY FORTE.

First off, fake. Just right off the bat. All the songs being arranged are solely made by the arranger supervisor themselves, so how does he know all this stuff, unless there was another huge orchestral piece like the Main Theme of Ultimate? Now to the good stuff.

- We've practically never had SNES Mario Kart music at all in Smash Bros., so while it could happen, I just don't see it happening, unless they're going in on Mario Kart representation. HOWEVER, Vanilla Lake revised with a bossa nova soundfont is something that should really happen.
- WE'RE GETTING FIRE EMBLEM: THREE HOUSES MUSIC, BOYS. I TOLD YOU ALL EDELGARD IS COMING.
- YIKES. No, no, NO. Fight Against An Armed Boss would NEVER work Persona-fied, at ALL. I'm actually kinda ****ing offended that he had the gall to even say that. Persona music is good, but the moment you take that soundfont and apply that to Fight Against an Armed Boss, you're asking yourself for a ****ty song. If there's any song that needs to preserve all of the motif when remixed, it's this one.
- I mean, isn't a lot of the current Castlevania songs we've heard practically Buttrock? The bagpipes part would be hilarious.
- Given Reaching For The Stars, this must be in-line with one of the Modern Nintendo stages, like Wii Fit, PictoChat, Pilotwings, etc. Wouldn't mind.

 

[Iridium]

Movement display pic.twitter.com/bNEUQNO377

— LG Tweek (@TweekSsb) October 7, 2018

Well, the movement seems nice. Very nice.

And just, wow. Literally the second best player in SSB4 right now, and he already looks like a god here too.

 

[osby]

I've already asked this, but how would you feel if Shadow got in as a semi-clone instead of an Echo?

I think Tails and Knuckles would be better choices for a unique character, but I'm not gonna complain if we get someone else like Shadow. I'm not a huge Sonic fan though, so my opinion probably doesn't mean much.

I'd be glad, Shadow works as an echo but it would be a nice move from Sakurai to allow Shadow to use some of his unique abilities. And, even if he's mostly unique, it makes more sense to pick him instead of others (same deal with Wolf in Brawl).

Shadow is one of the most popular characters in the whole franchise after Sonic, so it's completely understandable choosing him. Also I like him, he's a genuinely good character in Sonic 2006 and Sonic Adventures 2.

 

[Deleted member]

Movement display pic.twitter.com/bNEUQNO377

— LG Tweek (@TweekSsb) October 7, 2018

Well, the movement seems nice. Very nice.

And just, wow. Literally the second best player in SSB4 right now, and he already looks like a god here too.

I'm sorry, but WHAT? Down-B into Up-smash THAT QUICK???

 

[osby]

Movement display pic.twitter.com/bNEUQNO377

— LG Tweek (@TweekSsb) October 7, 2018

Well, the movement seems nice. Very nice.

And just, wow. Literally the second best player in SSB4 right now, and he already looks like a god here too.

To think there are people who thinks Ground Slam is useless.

 

[Deleted member]

I've already asked this, but how would you feel if Shadow got in as a semi-clone instead of an Echo?

I think Tails and Knuckles would be better choices for a unique character, but I'm not gonna complain if we get someone else like Shadow. I'm not a huge Sonic fan though, so my opinion probably doesn't mean much.

If he used guns and swore, he’d be my go to joke character. Otherwise, ew.

 

[KMDP]

"Cheesy piano house music from Persona"? Are we sure this guy works on music?

Don't you know that Aria of the Soul is pure cheese? /s

 

[Michele]

If he used guns and swore, he’d be my go to joke character. Otherwise, ew.

To be fair, he can do without these. Guns may be fine since Bayonetta has it, but if he actually swore, the game might be 16+

 

[osby]

Don't you know that Aria of the Soul is pure cheese? /s

Well, at least it's not goofy as Battle for Everyone's Souls.

To be fair, he can do without these. Guns may be fine since Bayonetta has it, but if he actually swore, the game might be 16+

Honestly, taking Shadow's personality and weapons from Shadow the Hedgehog would feel like giving Samus her plain Other M design and personality.

 

[Iridium]

If he used guns and swore, he’d be my go to joke character. Otherwise, ew.

You reminded me of this funny line from Sonic:

Not really swearing, but eh.

 

[RandomAce]

You reminded me of this funny line from Sonic:

Not really swearing, but eh.

Oh god, the fact that there even is a hell... this sounds so off.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

i think Medusa, Dixie, Ken and Shadow will be the last echoes leading to a nice total of 10

10 seems like a lot but I'm not the type to try to kill other's enthusiasm.

I ended had a dream where Inceneroar, Ken, Shadow, Dixie and Geno were revealed...

 

[MainJPW]

Oh god, the fact that there even is a hell... this sounds so off.

Sounds interesting. I wonder what a stage set in Sonic’s hell would be like. Gates of Hell Zone.

 

[RouffWestie]

Sounds interesting. I wonder what a stage set in Sonic’s hell would be like. Gates of Hell Zone.

I thought hell in Sonic's canon was just called Labyrinth Zone.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Really, based on the fact that Sakurai said they had “a few more” to show later on after revealing Chrom and Dark Samus, I think it would be overhyping oneself to expect more than 4 characters at most on base roster.

More than 4 is definitely not just “a few”. Add that to his statement of apologizing or admitting to pretty much frontloading character reveals, to expect that many again seems, again, quite optimistic.

But hey, if you want to be optimistic I can’t really bring you down. I’m already excited for this game, and i’m really not sure if i’ll ever need another Smash game after this one depending on what happens with it. I just wouldn’t get so dead set on the base roster having a ton more at this rate.

I’d look down the pike for DLC which, to me, seems like it could give us more than Wii U did.

 

[Michele]

Maybe Vergeben was right at all the times...

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2018...epresentation-super-smash-bros-minecon-party/

To clarify, Minecraft PR gave an curious reply to someone asking about Steve in Ultimate. While it's not 100% in game, there are a lot of possibilites. Either way, it's likely he's in NoA agreement

 

[Curious Villager]

- We've practically never had SNES Mario Kart music at all in Smash Bros., so while it could happen, I just don't see it happening, unless they're going in on Mario Kart representation. HOWEVER, Vanilla Lake revised with a bossa nova soundfont is something that should really happen.

Wasn't this song from the original Super Mario Kart?

 

[Electrick_EEL]

So, I made a list of who I think the most possible/likely newcomers are for Ultimate:

• Incineroar
• Elma
• Isaac
• Mach Rider
• Steve
• Geno
• A Dragon Quest Protagonist

Feel free to give me your input.

There is also Celica (since this leak hasn't been debunked yet)

 

[xAquaCrystal]

Add Shadow to that list.

And ken

 

[Electrick_EEL]

And ken

I don't think he included echoes.

 

[xAquaCrystal]

I don't think he included echoes.

Ah my bad. Thought he was listing last remaining characters to be reveal

 

[Deleted member]

Wasn't this song from the original Super Mario Kart?

I legitimately forgot Figure-8 Circuit and it's Brawl music was even in the game lmao. My bad.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Is it bad that since i’ve been playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider, i’ve really seemed to be totally fine with the idea of Lara in Smash?

I think they’d be able to do something cool with her. Just not quite sure what, just yet.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If he used guns and swore, he’d be my go to joke character. Otherwise, ew.

I feel like the swearing wouldn't work well unless it was done justttttt right. Like only in specific taunts/situations. I don't feel his "Damn, not here!" works great as a death bit. And I can't think of other ways to throw in "going straight to hell" that isn't going a bit far for Smash's design. It still appeals to kids, and that's a bit much. Whereas "Death to all who oppose me!" isn't nearly as bad in comparison.

The guns are far easier to implement in comparison because they still fit the military guy he is. He literally grew up on a military base. No reason he can't use 'em if he wants to or the situation calls for it. Though there's not much areas in his moveset where it would feasibly work. Orbital Laser for his Final Smash and cocking his gun for one his taunts works. I did see a Brawl mod some years back where his Down B has him pull out any of the Smash shooting items that are basically a type of gun. That somewhat fits, but it would be better to have a small list of his own options to use with limited ammo and to make them look closer to Bayonetta's, which are a bit less realistic. Not like laser bullets wouldn't work anyway. But that's only if there's a need to use 'em. Which other than the FS I mentioned, they feel superfluous. I'd rather them not have to rely on Super Shadow and be more creative, semi-clone or Echo to Sonic regardless. Plus, Super Shadow actually has unique abilities besides ramming into enemies. Chaos Spear actually would fit better even if he went Super.

 

[Pazzo.]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/434356491#p434359078

random 4chan leak but its about music tracks so thats a little interesting over the usual fighter leaks.

it says:

"I'm a Foley and sound mixer out of Palo Alto. I'm a Nintendo fan boy I don't know every game so bear with me: I only worked on very few tracks.

-A track that I'm totally sure was 'Vanilla Lake' from Mario Kart for SNES. It has a really strong bossa nova sound and used two acoustic guitars
-A song that sounded kinda like Fire Emblem and had me overlay a vocal female choir track
- A song from Mario RPG, it was the boss battle theme like when you fight Mack but it sounded like cheesy piano house music from Persona It almost sounded like Jamiroquai
-Some song that I'm just going to guess was Castlevania because it was total Buttrock, it has faint bagpipes in certain parts
-A song that sounded like Fantastic Plastic Machine's 'Reaching For The Stars', I don't know what game this was from. "

Now this is the sort of leak I like to see.

Analysis ahead:

(For those of you unaware, a Foley is a sound guy who replicates noises in real life. Remember that scene in Ratatouille where Linguine was running around crazy-like picking up stuff? Every one of those sounds had to be matched by someone IRL. It's the real deal.) It's very possible this guy was hired a while ago to the original sound work. I don't know if Nintendo has ever used a California based sound studio but I'd love it if anyone who knows if this is possible would speak up. Note he says "I only worked", past tense, so he's not claiming anything like "I just got out of the studio guys".

1. "Vanilla Lake"
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yklTb93aPM
Based on the description, nothing surprising here. The original track is trying to approach something like Bossa Nova (note the beats and guitar-like instrumentation).

2. "Fire Emblem-Esque"
This could be harder to nail down. I imagine one of the fantasy series, maybe BoTW's Hyrule Castle theme.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgK_OfW7nl4
On the other hand, he's likely to recognize this (BoTW was huge), so maybe we're talking about an RPG theme.

3. "Fight Against an Armed Foe"
This is the song in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQl7wDCKXSM
This plays against the boss "Mack" who bounces on a giant knife (nice pun). This is where it gets interesting, because he compares the arrangement to something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBnPedWPatI but with piano. This is actually where I start to believe the leak, if Nintendo could only get a few songs from Square, why not try to make what you have sound themed like a band known for futuristic sounds? This goes with the "Legend of the Seven Stars" title. This is also ironically the biggest point against the leak, Square has been shown to be a little... stingy with music.

4. "Castlevania"
With the high amount of Castlevania songs, this seems likely as well.

5. "Reaching for the Stars"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR850JQ90fE
Apparently sounds like this. I'm guessing Pikmin but this could honestly be anything.

Overall I'm suspicious of the idea that Nintendo outsourced to California, but that's the biggest thing against the leak. Even the obscure Mario RPG was on the SNES mini, and it's a fairly early boss. Good leak, good read.

 

[Deleted member]

There is also Celica (since this leak hasn't been debunked yet)

Ehh, I’m not sure about Celica. She seems a bit too late of an addition, but who knows.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I've already asked this, but how would you feel if Shadow got in as a semi-clone instead of an Echo?

I think Tails and Knuckles would be better choices for a unique character, but I'm not gonna complain if we get someone else like Shadow. I'm not a huge Sonic fan though, so my opinion probably doesn't mean much.

My preferred outcome where Sakurai intended to make Shadow an Echo but decided later on that his personality was too different and bumped him up to semi-clone. Either way I still think he’s in.

 

[xAquaCrystal]

I've already asked this, but how would you feel if Shadow got in as a semi-clone instead of an Echo?

I think Tails and Knuckles would be better choices for a unique character, but I'm not gonna complain if we get someone else like Shadow. I'm not a huge Sonic fan though, so my opinion probably doesn't mean much.

I would be happy if he became s semi-clone it would work well for shadow. Shadow is just similar enough to sonic but yet he is also different because of his chaos powers. If sakurai wanted to pull more move sets for shadow he can always look into the sonic battle game. But shadow can work well as a echo too if he was a chrom level of a echo though. If shadow is in I’m trusting sakurai would give shadow his chaos powers then I would be good.

 

[PeridotGX]

I've already asked this, but how would you feel if Shadow got in as a semi-clone instead of an Echo?

I think Tails and Knuckles would be better choices for a unique character, but I'm not gonna complain if we get someone else like Shadow. I'm not a huge Sonic fan though, so my opinion probably doesn't mean much.

I'd be shocked that that guy from gamefaqs that does nothing but talk Non-Echo Shadow was right.

Now this is the sort of leak I like to see.

Analysis ahead:

(For those of you unaware, a Foley is a sound guy who replicates noises in real life. Remember that scene in Ratatouille where Linguine was running around crazy-like picking up stuff? Every one of those sounds had to be matched by someone IRL. It's the real deal.) It's very possible this guy was hired a while ago to the original sound work. I don't know if Nintendo has ever used a California based sound studio but I'd love it if anyone who knows if this is possible would speak up. Note he says "I only worked", past tense, so he's not claiming anything like "I just got out of the studio guys".

1. "Vanilla Lake"
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yklTb93aPM
Based on the description, nothing surprising here. The original track is trying to approach something like Bossa Nova (note the beats and guitar-like instrumentation).

2. "Fire Emblem-Esque"
This could be harder to nail down. I imagine one of the fantasy series, maybe BoTW's Hyrule Castle theme.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgK_OfW7nl4
On the other hand, he's likely to recognize this (BoTW was huge), so maybe we're talking about an RPG theme.

3. "Fight Against an Armed Foe"
This is the song in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQl7wDCKXSM
This plays against the boss "Mack" who bounces on a giant knife (nice pun). This is where it gets interesting, because he compares the arrangement to something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBnPedWPatI but with piano. This is actually where I start to believe the leak, if Nintendo could only get a few songs from Square, why not try to make what you have sound themed like a band known for futuristic sounds? This goes with the "Legend of the Seven Stars" title. This is also ironically the biggest point against the leak, Square has been shown to be a little... stingy with music.

4. "Castlevania"
With the high amount of Castlevania songs, this seems likely as well.

5. "Reaching for the Stars"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR850JQ90fE
Apparently sounds like this. I'm guessing Pikmin but this could honestly be anything.

Overall I'm suspicious of the idea that Nintendo outsourced to California, but that's the biggest thing against the leak. Even the obscure Mario RPG was on the SNES mini, and it's a fairly early boss. Good leak, good read.

Isn't it the composer being stingy, not Square itself?