Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Darkurai]

This?

Ken is on the wrong side of the box. Gonna have to call fake on this one. Otherwise very convincing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Have you seen other echo fighters reveal like, Chorm and Dark Samus were revealed in one move? Yeah, if we believe that Ken would be revealed as new echo fighter among unknown echo fighters. There's no reason that Ken could be unique fighter, save for isabelle because she was changed from echo to semi clone of villager, basically making her unqiue.

There is nothing to suggest Isabelle was ever an Echo in the first place. It was told to us why she could not be an Echo(because she didn't have the right proportions, a key factor in creating them). That's not the same thing.

It's a theory that really has no evidence behind it. It's possible, but the only evidence we have is that "she would be impossible as an Echo" at this time. It's more likely he was going to try doing that, but the proportions being super off immediately had him write off the idea and went for unique instead. Unless that's what you mean, that she was planned as an echo(but not programmed as one)?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Man, do I hope a Direct is coming so all his can be put to rest.

From everything i’ve seen, for the twentieth time, is that box theory is commonly considered bull**** not because of anything concrete but more, “B-but muh characters!!11!”

Now certainly, there’s nothing to prove it. It’s an inference. There are now two promotional materials suggesting two spots remain.

Almost IMMEDIATELY...people go after it saying, “It doesn’t mean anything, r-right guys”. This reaction is fine, but it seems more that people are afraid that this is it and that we’re only getting Ken and Incineroar.

We pretty much already know Ken is getting in.

I may sound annoyed, and you wouldn’t be wrong. I’m not annoyed that people specifically are against the box. I really don’t care what people think. It’s more annoying that people are effectively, again, using bull**** to say it’s not happening or “has nothing indicating it’s the real deal”.

Then, people post clearly fake leaks from people on YouTube who are CLEARLY posting crap for views. That’s happened numerous times. What the difference? The difference is that those leaks propose a roster that has more characters.

It’s not really that people don’t believe the box leak. It’s more that they are choosing not to believe it because they want “Random text leak that says we’re getting like 10 more characters” to be real. They don’t want to accept that there are only 2 left. This is after:

>Vergeben has mentioned a max of 4 characters
> Vergeben has only been confident in two characters, those being Ken and Incineroar
> promotional material cryptically seems to suggest 2 more characters
> Sakurai has said to expect character announcements to slow down and that they may have revealed too many too quickly

What do the fans say, after saying “Leakers are the worst, they don’t appreciate all the hard work Sakurai puts in”?

“Sakurai is lying! You can take him for his word! We’re gonna get at least 6 more characters!”

Yeah, ok.

Anti-box theorists think they’re arguing against people who only want 2 more characters, whereas they’re effectively arguing against themselves in a way that only exists because they won’t even entertain the idea that maybe, JUST maybe, their total expectations will not be met.

Some expectations are going to be crushed. People with those expectations will have no one but themselves to blame. That itself doesn’t rely on the box. At this point it’s just inevitable.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Ken is on the wrong side of the box. Gonna have to call fake on this one. Otherwise very convincing.

What do you mean? Ken is a unique fighter. After Isabelle, anything can ****ing happen.

 

[Kuon]

Have you seen other echo fighters reveal like, Chorm and Dark Samus were revealed in one move? Yeah, if we believe that Ken would be revealed as new echo fighter among unknown echo fighters. There's no reason that Ken could be unique fighter, save for isabelle because she was changed from echo to semi clone of villager, basically making her unqiue.

Wait, what do you mean Isabelle was changed from echo to semi-clone? She was never an echo to begin with.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Man, do I hope a Direct is coming so all his can be put to rest.

From everything i’ve seen, for the twentieth time, is that box theory is commonly considered bull**** not because of anything concrete but more, “B-but muh characters!!11!”

Now certainly, there’s nothing to prove it. It’s an inference. There are now two promotional materials suggesting two spots remain.

Almost IMMEDIATELY...people go after it saying, “It doesn’t mean anything, r-right guys”. This reaction is fine, but it seems more that people are afraid that this is it and that we’re only getting Ken and Incineroar.

We pretty much already know Ken is getting in.

I may sound annoyed, and you wouldn’t be wrong. I’m not annoyed that people specifically are against the box. I really don’t care what people think. It’s more annoying that people are effectively, again, using bull**** to say it’s not happening or “has nothing indicating it’s the real deal”.

Then, people post clearly fake leaks from people on YouTube who are CLEARLY posting crap for views. That’s happened numerous times. What the difference? The difference is that those leaks propose a roster that has more characters.

It’s not really that people don’t believe the box leak. It’s more that they are choosing not to believe it because they want “Random text leak that says we’re getting like 10 more characters” to be real. They don’t want to accept that there are only 2 left. This is after:

>Vergeben has mentioned a max of 4 characters
> Vergeben has only been confident in two characters, those being Ken and Incineroar
> promotional material cryptically seems to suggest 2 more characters
> Sakurai has said to expect character announcements to slow down and that they may have revealed too many too quickly

What do the fans say, after saying “Leakers are the worst, they don’t appreciate all the hard work Sakurai puts in”?

“Sakurai is lying! You can take him for his word! We’re gonna get at least 6 more characters!”

Yeah, ok.

Anti-box theorists think they’re arguing against people who only want 2 more characters, whereas they’re effectively arguing against themselves in a way that only exists because they won’t even entertain the idea that maybe, JUST maybe, their total expectations will not be met.

Some expectations are going to be crushed. People with those expectations will have no one but themselves to blame. That itself doesn’t rely on the box. At this point it’s just inevitable.

You're trying to attack the opposite side of the argument by doing exactly what you're complaining about.

 

[Idon]

Looks like everyone's cutting themselves on Occam's razor...

 

[UserKev]

This?

That Shrek foreshadow is hilarious.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Box Theory 2.0 has me intrigued...I'm might be leaning more towards it being true again. But I'm going to remain cautious and not jump to any wild conclusions.

Box theory can't be true because it collides with the furniture theory. Checkmate.

Agreed, the chair theory still holds weight. Our last newcomer was yellow, so the next one has to be purple. That leaves us with Crogunk (Poison/Fighting), Goomy (Dragon), and Barney the Dinosaur (Fairy/Dragon) as our last potential pokemon newcomers.

 

[Deleted member]

WHERE IS THE WOZ?

Why did you change your avatar?

I've tried changing to a new Woz avatar, yet I got greeted with Smashboards pulling the "oops we did a ****y wucky!" card like 10 times. :/

DON'T WORRY, WE WILL BE BACK IN BUSINESS SOON.

 

[Potato_]

however it is a printed piece of official material and being distributed as is, while the box in box theory was an online mock up image... so it does mean official material can be printed and sent out WITHOUT the full roster and just with whats known at the time of the printing...

This is an important point to take note of. We've known this for a while due to the whole E3 card debacle but I think we should keep it in mind for now.

The other side of this being "Well if they made the mockup specifically to leave those two slots then they could have done so to make it easier on them adding in the remaining two characters." Which could be entirely true, but I don't think this confirms or denies box theory, just ends up being more things to torment us until we get our next bit of news (which is hopefully soon).

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

From everything i’ve seen, for the twentieth time, is that box theory is commonly considered bull**** not because of anything concrete but more, “B-but muh characters!!11!”

Every time you say something in this thread it’s something I agree with xD

 

[Nekoo]

Oh boy...Some """"news"""" about the Square-Enix rep from Vergeben.

I'm going to turn it off at this rate. The only reason I still haven't is in the event someone actually tags me in something important.

Too bad that rarely happens.

I've already told people before, I can't share the Square Enix character names I've heard openly because it could implicate people's jobs. Square Enix has been telling employees different names to try and f*** with leakers, both online and within their company if they have them. The company has a very cruel policy for employees leaking things and will fire people on suspicion alone. They don't care.
It's why rarely anything leaks from Square Enix unless clear mistakes or early listing leaks.

The actual employees walk on eggshells when it comes to anything leaking and they will tell certain departments and people different things to spread misinformation simply to see if people start talking and put it online.
If and when things do leak, they'll pick 'fall guys' and fire them to make an example about how serious they are about their stance against leaks.

Nintendo is working alongside Square Enix on their side of things to do all they can to keep the actual character from leaking ahead of time.

All that I can say with certainty and confirm like I have before is that their definitely is a Square Enix character coming to the game either at launch or DLC. This is a character I feel is better and safer for everyone involved to be revealed naturally.

Later on, someone come and say "But you wouldn't know that the Character can't be DLC, you wouldn't hear it prior Release"

To which he answer

Not exactly the case at all. There is a very realistic outcome that the Square Enix character could be the first DLC character.

Source : https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77060095?jumpto=6#6


This all goes back to what we heard about Square and leaks, but what makes me VERY interested is this line "Nintendo is working alongside Square Enix on their side of things to do all they can to keep the actual character from leaking ahead of time. "
And that he think this "Not exactly the case at all. There is a very realistic outcome that the Square Enix character could be the first DLC character."

Perhaps speculation from his part, but the fact that he think that there is a very realistic outcome that the character is DLC...Makes me very curious on the names he heard.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You're trying to attack the opposite side of the argument by doing exactly what you're complaining about.

No, i’m really not.

Is there a chance that we’re getting more than we expect? Perhaps. But there isn’t much of anything indicating that to be the case.

I’m not on any side of the argument, because it’s no skin off my back if people don’t see the same things I see. My frustration is coming from people not only treating people who believe the spots on the box mean something as peasants or something, but to not even entertain the thought that maybe there’s something to it.

Those same people then will immediately believe something that says the opposite with EVEN LESS supporting it.

It’s quite different. I’m simply pointing out that people are being hypocrites, willingly.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Man, do I hope a Direct is coming so all his can be put to rest.

From everything i’ve seen, for the twentieth time, is that box theory is commonly considered bull**** not because of anything concrete but more, “B-but muh characters!!11!”

Now certainly, there’s nothing to prove it. It’s an inference. There are now two promotional materials suggesting two spots remain.

Almost IMMEDIATELY...people go after it saying, “It doesn’t mean anything, r-right guys”. This reaction is fine, but it seems more that people are afraid that this is it and that we’re only getting Ken and Incineroar.

We pretty much already know Ken is getting in.

I may sound annoyed, and you wouldn’t be wrong. I’m not annoyed that people specifically are against the box. I really don’t care what people think. It’s more annoying that people are effectively, again, using bull**** to say it’s not happening or “has nothing indicating it’s the real deal”.

Then, people post clearly fake leaks from people on YouTube who are CLEARLY posting crap for views. That’s happened numerous times. What the difference? The difference is that those leaks propose a roster that has more characters.

It’s not really that people don’t believe the box leak. It’s more that they are choosing not to believe it because they want “Random text leak that says we’re getting like 10 more characters” to be real. They don’t want to accept that there are only 2 left. This is after:

>Vergeben has mentioned a max of 4 characters
> Vergeben has only been confident in two characters, those being Ken and Incineroar
> promotional material cryptically seems to suggest 2 more characters
> Sakurai has said to expect character announcements to slow down and that they may have revealed too many too quickly

What do the fans say, after saying “Leakers are the worst, they don’t appreciate all the hard work Sakurai puts in”?

“Sakurai is lying! You can take him for his word! We’re gonna get at least 6 more characters!”

Yeah, ok.

Anti-box theorists think they’re arguing against people who only want 2 more characters, whereas they’re effectively arguing against themselves in a way that only exists because they won’t even entertain the idea that maybe, JUST maybe, their total expectations will not be met.

Some expectations are going to be crushed. People with those expectations will have no one but themselves to blame. That itself doesn’t rely on the box. At this point it’s just inevitable.

The Smash community is one of the worst groups of people who have ever lived.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Box Theory 2.0 has me intrigued...I'm might be leaning more towards it being true again. But I'm going to remain cautious and not jump to any wild conclusions.
Agreed, the chair theory still holds weight. Our last newcomer was yellow, so the next one has to be purple. That leaves us with Crogunk (Poison/Fighting), Goomy (Dragon), and Barney the Dinosaur (Fairy/Dragon) as our last potential pokemon newcomers.

*When you believe one ridiculous theory but can't handle people believing in others

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

The Smash community is one of the worst groups of people who have ever lived.

I feel that that’s a bit of a stretch.

 

[Mc.Rad]

So... how do you think soon do you think people will get their hands on the game and leak it? I say that if we don't get any ESRB shenanigans, we'll get a retail leak where all the content is shown off.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The Smash community is one of the worst groups of people who have ever lived.

Well I mean...that’s a bit harsh. It’s a good mix of ages and experiences. It’s a learning experience really.

People will always go for what they want to hear, it’s human nature.

Being human doesn’t make you bad, lol. It just gives you something you need to really, critically, think about.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Well I mean...that’s a bit harsh. It’s a good mix of ages and experiences. It’s a learning experience really.

People will always go for what they want to hear, it’s human nature.

Being human doesn’t make you bad, lol. It just gives you something you need to really, critically, think about.

Honestly, I wish the Box Theory wasn’t real. But I’m leaning towards the fact that it is.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

No, i’m really not.

Is there a chance that we’re getting more than we expect? Perhaps. But there isn’t much of anything indicating that to be the case.

I’m not on any side of the argument, because it’s no skin off my back if people don’t see the same things I see. My frustration is coming from people not only treating people who believe the spots on the box mean something as peasants or something, but to not even entertain the thought that maybe there’s something to it.

Those same people then will immediately believe something that says the opposite with EVEN LESS supporting it.

It’s quite different. I’m simply pointing out that people are being hypocrites, willingly.

How about everyone just remain neutral until we get confirmation? Also I'm not sure why you're trying to paint pro box people as some saints.

 

[osby]

The Smash community is one of the worst groups of people who have ever lived.

I have a lot of problems with this fandom but come on, they aren't THAT bad. Also, this is pushing generelasing too far, which I'm occasionally guilty of, but isn't right.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

I don't see how the card supports Box Theory?

There may be an empty spot next to Ryu, but it's before him, and it's apparently already printed...

Well some people assume the card just uses the revealed roster and if the box theory would not exist in the first place, nobody would have batted an eye. However people forget the main reason the box theory caught steam in the first place, and that is that hardcore people overanalyzed that box and found that pattern of 9 groups, while a casual person would not pay attention to it.

The card unlike the box shows all characters, so they have to organize it in such a way, people won't lay the link that this could be the final roster and that would explain Ryu's placement on the card

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The Smash community is one of the worst groups of people who have ever lived.

Not even close to being the worst fanbase I've been a part of, if blind optimism is its worst crime then it's pretty good all things considered.

You sound like you just need to take a break from speculation.

 

[Potato_]

So... how do you think soon do you think people will get their hands on the game and leak it? I say that if we don't get any ESRB shenanigans, we'll get a retail leak where all the content is shown off.

If it's purely through a retail leak, I think the absolute earliest would be like a week to a week and a half before release. For sure there'd be some dude at a warehouse or something that would risk their job to try it out early.

 

[T-Hell]

The Smash community is one of the worst groups of people who have ever lived.

Not really. That's too far. Paranoid and a little close-minded? Probably, especially now.

 

[Boo Jr.]

Man, do I hope a Direct is coming so all his can be put to rest.

From everything i’ve seen, for the twentieth time, is that box theory is commonly considered bull**** not because of anything concrete but more, “B-but muh characters!!11!”

Now certainly, there’s nothing to prove it. It’s an inference. There are now two promotional materials suggesting two spots remain.

Almost IMMEDIATELY...people go after it saying, “It doesn’t mean anything, r-right guys”. This reaction is fine, but it seems more that people are afraid that this is it and that we’re only getting Ken and Incineroar.

We pretty much already know Ken is getting in.

I may sound annoyed, and you wouldn’t be wrong. I’m not annoyed that people specifically are against the box. I really don’t care what people think. It’s more annoying that people are effectively, again, using bull**** to say it’s not happening or “has nothing indicating it’s the real deal”.

I honestly don't know where you find the strenght to still fight the echo chamber, I get exhausted just by reading some comment...people want to believe Sakurai is holding 10 character for the final presentation? Let them, its an hopeless windmill to tilt at.

It’s not really that people don’t believe the box leak. It’s more that they are choosing not to believe it because they want “Random text leak that says we’re getting like 10 more characters” to be real. They don’t want to accept that there are only 2 left. This is after:

>Vergeben has mentioned a max of 4 characters
> Vergeben has only been confident in two characters, those being Ken and Incineroar
> promotional material cryptically seems to suggest 2 more characters
> Sakurai has said to expect character announcements to slow down and that they may have revealed too many too quickly

To be fair, today Vergeben said he's pretty sure there's an actual Square-Enix rep, be it DLC or in the base game. If he is DLC tho, that would confirm that DLC are already planned (and already worked on).

Whatever, I'm going to enjoy the game anyway, the amount of content is staggering. I'm just curious about the "spirit" mode...

 

[NextChannelGames]

With all this talk of Steve & Banjo for Smash what happens if Microsoft made a deal to Nintendo to have Smash Bros come out for Xbox One later after Switch launch?

 

[Idon]

With all this talk of Steve & Banjo for Smash what happens if Microsoft made a deal to Nintendo to have Smash Bros come out for Xbox One later after Switch launch?

I think I'd sooner see Nintendo make a pornographic dating simulator than allow their biggest system seller on a less popular competing console.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Broke- Download card deconfirms Box Theory
Joke- Download card helps Box Theory
WOKE- The Download Card originally had the last 2 newcomers on it, but the guy that leaked it went into Photo Shop and removed them as to not spoil the remaining roster for us. Such a nice dude

 

[Darkurai]

With all this talk of Steve & Banjo for Smash what happens if Microsoft made a deal to Nintendo to have Smash Bros come out for Xbox One later after Switch launch?

It's pretty safe to say that when talking about Nintendo, anything is possible.

This, most certainly, is not possible.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I have steeled myself to be ready to accept that Shadow may not make the final roster and that box theory is real, but ultimately I still subscribe to the nilhilist theory.

Whatever the case I think we’ll have a Direct one or two weeks from now as they like Tuesdays for some reason.

With all this talk of Steve & Banjo for Smash what happens if Microsoft made a deal to Nintendo to have Smash Bros come out for Xbox One later after Switch launch?

Please don’t entertain that thought any further.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Sakurai also stated to not expect too many newcomers but it's not like people are listening to that.

The Tower of Smash is a perfect comparison to what's going on right now, 3DS version was out and Sakurai said there would be no characters exclusive to one version, yet people still believed it.
Now we have Sakurai saying "don't expect too many newcomers" and "all fighters will be revealed before launch", two pieces of promotional material pointing to only two more characters and a credible leak that points in the same direction yet people still call it bull****, deny Verg despite all of the stuff he got right, think Sakurai is trolling us, and make conspiracy theories that there are going to be secret characters not used in promotional material and we should expect at least 5 more characters.

All the signs are here shouting with a big flashing red "THIS IS IT" so when the inevitable happens, most of this thread will still act like it's a surprise and go into salt mode.
I said this nefore but I'll say it again: if you think the Box/Card theory is wrong and are calling it "bull**** without actual evidence", you'll have no right to complain when Incineroar is revealed and Sakurai goes "that's all folks!".

Oh come on, the Box Theory is false as there is no way Sakurai would ignore the Big Three, and I mean the true Big Three around here.

Spoiler

I mean, the blonde member literally transcends walls and grounds!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think I'd sooner see Nintendo make a pornographic dating simulator than allow their biggest system seller on a less popular competing console.

I mean, they did have Love Hotels, so... >.>

But seriously, it won't happen unless they go 3rd party(which is probably never). Thankfully PC and Mobile exist.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Well I mean...that’s a bit harsh. It’s a good mix of ages and experiences. It’s a learning experience really.

People will always go for what they want to hear, it’s human nature.

Being human doesn’t make you bad, lol. It just gives you something you need to really, critically, think about.

I have a lot of problems with this fandom but come on, they aren't THAT bad. Also, this is pushing generelasing too far, which I'm occasionally guilty of, but isn't right.

Not even close to being the worst fanbase I've been a part of, if blind optimism is its worst crime then it's pretty good all things considered.

You sound like you just need to take a break from speculation.

I mean, is it really that inaccurate though?

 

[Just a random scrub]

Shrek would be a better echo for Sora

So much tiger salt,lol

Huh, I thought Shrek was gonna be a Bayonetta echo.

 

[Kuon]

The Smash community is one of the worst groups of people who have ever lived.

I think that can be said about every fandom, ever

 

[Idon]

I mean, they did have Love Hotels, so... >.>

But seriously, it won't happen unless they go 3rd party(which is probably never). Thankfully PC and Mobile exist.

Every single day I learn something new...

 

[Pyra]

The Smash community is one of the worst groups of people who have ever lived.

Wrong.

I mean, is it really that inaccurate though?

Yes.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Man, do I hope a Direct is coming so all his can be put to rest.

From everything i’ve seen, for the twentieth time, is that box theory is commonly considered bull**** not because of anything concrete but more, “B-but muh characters!!11!”

Now certainly, there’s nothing to prove it. It’s an inference. There are now two promotional materials suggesting two spots remain.

Almost IMMEDIATELY...people go after it saying, “It doesn’t mean anything, r-right guys”. This reaction is fine, but it seems more that people are afraid that this is it and that we’re only getting Ken and Incineroar.

We pretty much already know Ken is getting in.

I may sound annoyed, and you wouldn’t be wrong. I’m not annoyed that people specifically are against the box. I really don’t care what people think. It’s more annoying that people are effectively, again, using bull**** to say it’s not happening or “has nothing indicating it’s the real deal”.

Then, people post clearly fake leaks from people on YouTube who are CLEARLY posting crap for views. That’s happened numerous times. What the difference? The difference is that those leaks propose a roster that has more characters.

It’s not really that people don’t believe the box leak. It’s more that they are choosing not to believe it because they want “Random text leak that says we’re getting like 10 more characters” to be real. They don’t want to accept that there are only 2 left. This is after:

>Vergeben has mentioned a max of 4 characters
> Vergeben has only been confident in two characters, those being Ken and Incineroar
> promotional material cryptically seems to suggest 2 more characters
> Sakurai has said to expect character announcements to slow down and that they may have revealed too many too quickly

What do the fans say, after saying “Leakers are the worst, they don’t appreciate all the hard work Sakurai puts in”?

“Sakurai is lying! You can take him for his word! We’re gonna get at least 6 more characters!”

Yeah, ok.

Anti-box theorists think they’re arguing against people who only want 2 more characters, whereas they’re effectively arguing against themselves in a way that only exists because they won’t even entertain the idea that maybe, JUST maybe, their total expectations will not be met.

Some expectations are going to be crushed. People with those expectations will have no one but themselves to blame. That itself doesn’t rely on the box. At this point it’s just inevitable.

See, this is what annoys me--when a straw man argument is used to dismiss the other side of the argument. When I argue against the Box Theory, I argue against their BEST arguments to show why I think they're wrong, not the worst arguments ("But muh characters"). The best arguments against Box Theory, if you're not aware of, is:

- Everyone agrees it's placeholder art, because it lacks Isabelle and has negative space. Placeholder art, by its nature, changes between it and the finalized design. We have no way of knowing what will change, if more spaces are added, if there's other sides with characters, etc.

- It relies on many assumptions, including Vergeben being 100% correct (as confident as I am in him, no one should be considered 100% trustworthy), and that the Box only lists every character in the roster, while a few could be left off to avoid leaks when it goes to printing.

Some of us are perfectly fine if there weren't more characters--particularly me, because before E3 I was *hoping* for a Smash 4 port to avoid having characters be cut. E3 had already shattered my expectations. But each time, expectations are changed accordingly, and it doesn't make much sense to end on Incineroar and Ken (which is lamer than Smash 4's ending as some people point to) because it's characters we expect (a Pokemon and an echo). But saying that doesn't mean I'm upset there aren't more characters, just confused at their pacing of reveals. As for your claims:

> Vergeben never said this. He said there were *at least* six more characters, including Simon, but there could always be more. Max is not the same as "at least". Unless you're saying the characters left that he's confident in, in which case there are 3: Incineroar, Ken, and an SE rep. Steve is not a claim he made because he has not heard back from his main Smash sources--it's only he said, they said, they said as his non-Smash sources have heard people murming about it, but is not a claim Verge is making outside of "Minecraft content".
> Vergeben is confident in the SE rep, he just doesn't know, like with any character, if they are base or DLC. He's only giving Box Theory some credence given it doesn't conflict with his information, outside of the SE rep. But the SE rep does conflict, unless you make another assumption it's DLC--which again, Box Theory has too many assumptions as is.
> Why would those involved in promotion cryptically reveal the rest of the roster? This is another claim made by Box Theorist proponents that make no sense. I didn't include it in the above, as I said, I try not to argue against the worst arguments of a side I disagree with.
> This is true, and it definitely should lead people to change their expectations accordingly. But "slowing down" does not mean "Box Theory is correct."

I've stopped complaining about Box Theory, as you said, people are allowed to believe whatever they want. It just gets frustrating when one side keeps using strawman arguments to dismiss the other side, rather than being open minded and taking their side seriously. I've tried that with Box Theory--I'm not as aggressively against it as I once was. But I still have to be honest, and Box Theory still doesn't make any sense, being a placeholder image, and having too many assumptions with no real evidence to back it up. And I'm fine with the roster as is.