Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Megadoomer]

any leak about a potential direct date yet?

The Japanese playlist for Smash Bros. character videos was updated two days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1lIms2gwaCzNYbHXr0cgG9dgL2nUAQF

Apparently, the previous times that this happened were ten days before the August 2018 direct, and some time before the September Direct (not sure if it was also ten days or not). This could possibly mean that there will be a Direct 7 or 8 days from now, or it could be a total coincidence - we don't really know.

 

[Deleted member]

hint at Chell the first DLC character

Dang, I was hoping for The Freeman. He'd come with President Keemstar as an assist trophy.

 

[amazonevan19]

very dank check out 3:15,

I hadn't seen DK's new throw before, that is pretty nice indeed. Ridley looks awesome as well though quite nuanced.

 

[Deleted member]

Y'know, I wonder how the box fares if Ken and Incineroar get revealed Robin and Lucina styled, given how a Smash Direct without a character reveal is pretty much unheard of at this point.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

I know you don't believe this card thing, but what if I told you the card thing and the box theory are connected?

In the card thing there are two black box/empty space, same as the box.

First off, you don't need to talk to me like I'm five.

Second, I still don't buy it. Two incidences does not a pattern make.

Maybe it has more to do with arranging rectangles in smaller rectangles more than it is some arcane cloak and daggery to hide the matrix code that tells us we're only getting Ken and Incineroar. As an artist, and a comic artist at that, rectangles are tricky shapes to work with because they're evenly-uneven. You have to get creative with filling spaces that have an odd number of them, especially true when you've got like 50+ of them spread across unequal surfaces.

People seem to get this idea in their head that they're literally taking a package and slapping on new boxes as they go along. "Bobby, hand me that Robin sticker, we gotta make this fit! Oh heck, it's going on Amazon, peel off that Ken!" Truth is, they probably have _tons_ of designs made up as placeholders for different parts in the reveal schedule, each with their own unique layout to make the most appealing image with what they have. They don't "add on" until they get to the final box. If they need to resize or restructure, they will, because nobody cares, because it's a box.

The same goes for the card.

 

[papagenos]

So we have the box theory, we have this card "somewhat" supporting it, AND we have the japanese video update happening which has happened in the past closely before getting new smash news (isabelle)...

What if we get a direct next week (or at some point soon this month) and we get ken/Incineroar and thats it... for the promotional material.

things start to go into printing and the Box IS the final box with ken and incineroar BUT theres still a final direct at some point in November with a few more characters but they were NEVER intended to fit on the box/promotional material.

Basically getting the "full" roster in october here would feel sort of early (it could happen of course, maybe sakurai wants us to know the full roster this earlier and intended to do so all along to hopefully avoid leaks). I just think its also possible that if we get a direct soon (which we have reason to believe we might) and we get two more characters, maybe that IS the full box art roster but not the full game roster.

not exactly a new idea here but I always thought we'd see ken and incineroar in november if they were our final two and now we have reason to believe we may get some smash news soon so... maybe there will be a few more secrets left for november i cant imagine ending the "hype" of character reveals this early being a good move.

 

[Deleted member]

Dang, I was hoping for The Freeman. He'd come with President Keemstar as an assist trophy.

Sakurai wanted the Companion Cube as an item which is why he chose Portal instead.

 

[Starbound]

What's this card thing?

 

[Fenriraga]

It doesn't take a lot to understand that a box and a card would need different precautions to keep the roster a secret. One has the roster split between sides, and one has it on one side.

But people will just continue throwing hissy fits if I even just mention that this doesn't kill the Box Theory because they want to believe us getting six more characters is somehow possible, despite all logic saying otherwise.

Oh, come off it.

I don't believe Box Theory. I have yet to be convinced otherwise. But I also believe we aren't getting any more than 3 fighters based on leaks, I.E. something with ACTUAL evidence backing it up. If we get Inceneroar and Ken (One of which is pretty much confirmed), then I attribute that to Vergeben. Box has nothing to do with that. If the box is updated with them after that, cool, I was wrong, and I'll admit to it. But until then, it's just a box, bud.

There's both sides to the spectrum here, and I know full well some people are putting too much stock in Box Theory.

 

[Eru13]

Not sure if anyone realized this, but there is a new theory. This time, it's this...
https://imgtc.com/i/hKRwiME.jpg

Looks like a download code to my eyes, though I could be wrong

This looks like the part in the bottom is a card you can rip off and has a download code in the back

Also, it mentions the game is over 16GB in size

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

So we have the box theory, we have this card "somewhat" supporting it, AND we have the japanese video update happening which has happened in the past closely before getting new smash news (isabelle)...

What if we get a direct next week (or at some point soon this month) and we get ken/Incineroar and thats it... for the promotional material.

things start to go into printing and the Box IS the final box with ken and incineroar BUT theres still a final direct at some point in November with a few more characters but they were NEVER intended to fit on the box/promotional material.

Basically getting the "full" roster in october here would feel sort of early (it could happen of course, maybe sakurai wants us to know the full roster this earlier and intended to do so all along to hopefully avoid leaks). I just think its also possible that if we get a direct soon (which we have reason to believe we might) and we get two more characters, maybe that IS the full box art roster but not the full game roster.

not exactly a new idea here but I always thought we'd see ken and incineroar in november if they were our final two and now we have reason to believe we may get some smash news soon so... maybe there will be a few more secrets left for november i cant imagine ending the "hype" of character reveals this early being a good move.

So you’re saying the graphic designers for promotional material intentionally left a select few out because the design would be off otherwise?

 

[Opossum]

Oh, come off it.

I don't believe Box Theory. I have yet to be convinced otherwise. But I also believe we aren't getting any more than 3 fighters based on leaks, I.E. something with ACTUAL evidence backing it up. If we get Inceneroar and Ken (One of which is pretty much confirmed), then I attribute that to Vergeben. Boxes have nothing to do with that.

There's both sides to the spectrum here, and I know full well some people are putting too much stock in Box Theory.

Likewise, you're fooling yourself if you don't think that a good portion of the vehemently anti-Box people don't immediately go "by the way here's a list of eight non-echo newcomers I think we're getting in the base roster." Hell, it happens enough in this thread alone, never mind elsewhere.

So no, I won't "come off it," thank you.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Y'know, I wonder how the box fares if Ken and Incineroar get revealed Robin and Lucina styled, given how a Smash Direct without a character reveal is pretty much unheard of at this point.

That'd be a really weird way to reveal them considering they're not from the same series though

 

[Darkurai]

Kind of crazy to think that nearly as much time as passed now since the 8/8 Direct as had passed since E3 when the 8/8 Direct had aired.

We're nearing "Act 3" of the hype cycle, so to speak. It's crazy thinking about how close this game is.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

The card only shows what we already know, everything else is still ambiguous until it's reviled.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I'm not talking about you specifically, but people in general. And I wouldn't call it pessimism. Instead I view it as realism. There's a big difference there; pessimism implies disappointment, while Ultimate has already exceeded all expectations.

To me it seems more like anti-box people are reaching incredibly hard in their attempts to discredit the box. All things, meanwhile, are pointing to this being the timeline we're looking at:

- Nothing happens in October, making it the sequel to the smash-hit month, July.
- Smash Direct in Mid-November
- Smash Direct reveals Ken and Incineroar in a trailer cheekily titled "Pokémon Masters."
- Spirits Mode, Online Modes, Trophies, and other Single-Player modes are detailed in full. Amiibo support further detailed if the amiibo unlocks thing is real.
- First look at the first DLC character, which is Vergeben's Square Enix character, a la Fifty Facts Mewtwo.

If anything happens that deviates from that plan, I will be incredibly surprised.

You might as well get surprised cause it's very likely there'll be a reveal next week.
Now if it's Incineroar, then you have reason to believe in the Box Theory even more. It won't be Ken because he's an echo fighter.
But if it's not Incineroar, then you should put up your flame shield because everyone is going to want the heads of anyone who supported the box theory, because that's how the Smash community is. If it is Incineroar, the same thing will happen, only they'll also want Sakurai's head.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

- Smash Direct reveals Ken and Incineroar in a trailer cheekily titled "Pokémon Masters."

You get a like for this **** right here alone. You slick son of a *****.

My only problem with this is that I think we are getting something this month. Even if it is just a Robin Style character reveal I think we will get something. I don't know, I feel like after the blowout that was June, July being devoid of news was justified at least to me, and then we got another blowout in August and I half expected September to be the sequel to July but we got a Direct and Isabelle anyways. I'm not all in on defaming the box theory, not yet, but I do feel like this might hurt it a little bit. I feel like this is what the box and the card is going to look like, even if there are new characters I don't think they'll make it on either. I think the box is the box and the card is the card and that's how they'll go out to stores.

To be honest, your explanation is sound and I do expect a DLC character reveal before the game releases, though I'm banking on it being on December 6th, but if this whole Playlist Update means anything at all we'll know in the coming weeks.

Actually, can we just have the whole roster now Sakurai? I've had fun but god damn I'm ready for this game. I want to know ALL the match-ups. Plus, DLC speculation is just as fun and it comes with less illegitimate leaks and theories at that.

 

[Dcas]

One thing I'm kinda worried about is that I don't know how they're going to go over online, returning modes, any remaining characters, any potential new stages, AND Spirits Mode all in one Direct that would likely be under 30 minutes.
This of course all depends on how many returning modes there are and whether or not they've actually added anything to Sm4sh's online, since they'll no doubt be reusing the "For Fun, For Glory" modes. And of course, while Sakurai did say all the characters would be revealed, he never said he'd reveal all the content in the game before it's out. He could absolutely be keeping secrets.

Yes indeed, in the leaks thread we talked specifically about this which is kinda worrying. Either they are massively pumping from november onwards or theres really not much else to expect besides what we know.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Likewise, you're fooling yourself if you don't think that a good portion of the vehemently anti-Box people don't immediately go "by the way here's a list of eight non-echo newcomers I think we're getting in the base roster." Hell, it happens enough in this thread alone, never mind elsewhere.

So no, I won't "come off it," thank you.

I think we're getting four at most including echoes.

A cardboard box isn't going to tell you the future any more than a "coming soon" sign in a storefront window.

 

[Opossum]

The card only shows what we already know, everything else is still ambiguous until it's reviled.

It's already reviled by a good portion of people.

 

[Deleted member]

I have still yet to see anyone say what makes Box Theory's "patterns" and "evidence" any more valid than Blog Theory's and Music Theory's.

Like, these theories all operate under fan assumptions. I find it interesting that hardcore box people are super willing to squash the other rumors and theories for the same reasons people doubt the box, but are unwilling to doubt the box itself.

 

[Nekoo]

not here to steal Geno's spot for promoting a new Tomb Raider game.

Not to **** on the fanbase.
But you know damn well that it's going to happens whenever it's DQ/Lara/Sora/Neku/FF.
Take it from experience, we had people saying that Roy stole Wolf's spot for Veterant come back.
That Bayonetta stole K.Rool Spot.
And That Sakurai aknowledging Geno with a Mii Costume means that he's 100% a lock so whoever isn't Geno stole his spot.


That place is a ****ty saltmine, the worst kind.

 

[Fenriraga]

Likewise, you're fooling yourself if you don't think that a good portion of the vehemently anti-Box people don't immediately go "by the way here's a list of eight non-echo newcomers I think we're getting in the base roster." Hell, it happens enough in this thread alone, never mind elsewhere.

So no, I won't "come off it," thank you.

The "come off it" was uncalled for. That was on me. I'm sorry.

Regardless, both sides of the spectrum are equally silly in my eyes. I just don't really see the need to call them out. Not believing in the Box theory =/= thinking we still have a lot of newcomers. And I know you already know that. So why bother getting up in arms and complaining about it?

 

[Eru13]

The card only shows what we already know, everything else is still ambiguous until it's reviled.

Not quite, it mentions the game size and basically also confirms that we won't be getting new characters from third parties not already listed in here

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I can't believe that when we get the possibility of a direct/video next week and a download card on the same day, we choose to disect the card -_-

But everyone loves the Card Theory!

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

It's already reviled by a good portion of people.

But we aren't sure what the exact roster is going to be yet.

 

[papagenos]

So you’re saying the graphic designers for promotional material intentionally left a select few out because the design would be off otherwise?

more so that stuff needs to go into printing (boxes/posters/store signs etc...) and maybe sakurai wants to hold off characters closer to release.

so the promotional material distributors are making stuff with the knowledge of ken/incineroar (but obviously not showing it yet) but they dont know the rest of the roster as they were only told about characters up until that point (which if we get a direct soon would mean they start printing stuff in mid october here).

its not the best theory but i do think IF we get ken/incineroar shown this early its suspicious there wouldnt be anymore to hype closer to release AND it would make sense for the boxes/printed material etc... to only have up until the "october" point (as its enough time to actually get them all physically printed and made in time to distribute) and the final stuff wont make it on the boxes cause sakurai wants to reveal it himself and putting that into printing would greatly risk leaking the final few characters.

this only makes sense to me IF ken and incineroar get revealed soon here.

 

[Noipoi]

Wait, we've got cards now too?

I guess it's time to D-D-D-D-DDDDUEL

...

Seriously though, what card are we talking about?

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

I have still yet to see anyone say what makes Box Theories "patterns" and "evidence" any more valid than Blog Theory and Music Theory.

Like, these theories all operate under fan assumptions. I find it interesting that hardcore box people are super willing to squash the other rumors and theories for the same reasons people doubt the box, but are unwilling to doubt the box itself.

I will never not chuckle at that giant spreadsheet made with complicated equations to "prove" blog theory.

Not quite, it mentions the game size and basically also confirms that we won't be getting new characters from third parties not already listed in here

That doesn't prove anything. Even if we don't get more third parties, that isn't evidence that they couldn't hide that fact. They did it all the time in Smash 4.

 

[Opossum]

The "come off it" was uncalled for. That was on me. I'm sorry.

Regardless, both sides of the spectrum are equally silly in my eyes. I just don't really see the need to call them out. Not believing in the Box theory =/= thinking we still have a lot of newcomers. And I know you already know that. So why bother getting up in arms and complaining about it?

I'll be honest, a lot of it just reminds me of Tower of Smash back in the Smash 4 days, where tons of people subscribed to an idea that gave us more newcomers despite things pointing elsewhere. That's my main point of contention. It's not an exact fit, but I see parallels, is all.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I will never not chuckle at that giant spreadsheet made with complicated equations to "prove" blog theory.

This is the equivalent of people dismissing critiques of their favorite movies or cartoons or games because they're two hours long.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'll be honest, a lot of it just remind me of Tower of Smash back in the Smash 4 days, where tons of people subscribed to an idea that gave us more newcomers despite things pointing elsewhere. That's my main point of contention. It's not an exact fit, but I see parallels, is all.

What did Tower of Smash exactly entail again? I forget

 

[Noipoi]

A playlist update too?

Jeez, you sleep in for a bit and suddenly the world's on fire...

 

[Dcas]

more so that stuff needs to go into printing (boxes/posters/store signs etc...) and maybe sakurai wants to hold off characters closer to release.

so the promotional material distributors are making stuff with the knowledge of ken/incineroar (but obviously not showing it yet) but they dont know the rest of the roster they were only told about characters up until that point (which if we get a direct soon would mean they start printing stuff in mid october here).

its not the best theory but i do think IF we get ken/incineroar shown this early its suspicious there wouldnt be anymore to hype closer to release AND it would make sense for the boxes/printed material etc... to only have up until the "october" point (as its enough time to actually get them all physically printed and made in time to distribute) and the final stuff wont make it on the boxes cause sakurai wants to reveal it himself and putting that into printing would greatly risk leaking the final few characters.

this only makes sense to me IF ken and incineroar get revealed soon here.

Yes indeed, remember the game is now finished and they are just squashing bugs at this rate. So basically the promotional material is about done as well and/or is about to get released. So what you just said makes sense, that some secret stuff is let unconvered and outside the box otherwise we are getting what we already know,

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

This is the equivalent of people dismissing critiques of their favorite movies or cartoons or games because they're two hours long.

It's the equivalent of getting a kick out of people going to absurd lengths to prove something that's darn near impossible to prove until official material comes along to confirm it. At which point, it's already irrelevant.

What did Tower of Smash exactly entail again? I forget

It was a copy of MK's Challenge Tower and a giant wishlist of stuff. People wanted to believe it because it was full of the spicy hot picks of the month.

 

[osby]

Not to **** on the fanbase.

I don't think you need to have reservations, they deserved it.

But you know damn well that it's going to happens whenever it's DQ/Lara/Sora/Neku/FF.
Take it from experience, we had people saying that Roy stole Wolf's spot for Veterant come back.
That Bayonetta stole K.Rool Spot.
And That Sakurai aknowledging Geno with a Mii Costume means that he's 100% a lock so whoever isn't Geno stole his spot.


That place is a ****ty saltmine, the worst kind.

Honestly, if people expect a third party to be a lock because "they are practically Nintendo characters" or "it would be sooo easy", they are going to be disappointed and it's their fault.

Also, "stole" arguments are the most brainless things I've ever seen.

 

[Deleted member]

What did Tower of Smash exactly entail again? I forget

"The Tower of Smash rumor claimed that the Wii U version of the game would feature 40 new stages, alongside 15 "past" stages and a few stages shared with the 3DS version, such as Magicant; in addition to these stages, the Stage Builder was claimed to have returned from Brawl after being left out of the 3DS version, and the mode would feature improvements, such as no longer restricting players to one "theme". Arguably the most notable claimed addition was that of a "Tower of Smash" mode. A replacement for the Event Matches that were absent in the 3DS version, the Tower of Smash involved a 100-floor tower which tasked the player, with four characters of their choice, continuously taking part in one-on-one stock battles, with some matches having random modifiers. Various boss battles were also implicated, which would feature characters from outside series, such as Dyna Blade from the Kirby series. These bosses would also make up a new "Boss Rush" mode as somewhat of a successor to the Boss Battles from Brawl.

In addition, leakers claimed that five new characters could be unlocked when the 3DS and Wii U versions were connected. The five implicated characters were Ridley, the Chorus Men, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, and Impa from The Legend of Zelda."

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Let's really be honest: Even if Geno, Bandana Dee, Isaac, and every character anyone has ever wanted gets in, people will still find reasons to be disappointed with the roster.

 

[Noipoi]

I don't think you need to have reservations, they deserved it.

That's a little mean, don't you think?
Not everyone in the fanbase is like that...

 

[Deleted member]

It's the equivalent of getting a kick out of people going to absurd lengths to prove something that's darn near impossible to prove until official material comes along to confirm it. At which point, it's already irrelevant.

But they get internet points to say they were right and everyone else was wrong!

The playlist updating is cool, hopefully that means something soon.